What have you learned from Keith Code?

[Huzband]

A friend recently loaned me the book "Twist of the Wrist II" & the accompanying DVD. Having done some track days at Jennings(including being skilled by Nate Kern), & having some experience with RideSmart, I expected this to be much more track oriented & not so much applicable to the street. I was wrong & right all at the same time.

 

Although I've been riding since I was twelve years old (1971), I continue to realize that there is always something to be learned. This tutorial started out as what I thought a track book, & it mostly is. But the DVD is somewhat different. There are definite street scenarios & applications. And if you look carefully, there are RideSmart techniques infused in some of his corner correction techniques. Something that I'm sure is not lost on D.B.

 

Bottom line is I highly recommend this tutorial. With attention to detail, it will enhance your skill level, and reduce your SR's. (Look it up.)

[tallman]

Danny,

I go back ever year or two and re-read Twists/Proficient MCing.

 

Whether I've actually "learned" something or not ('cause I don't always do the right thing) is debatable but reality sez I have as I find myself anticipating advice/responses in most scenarios.

 

I like 'em.

[jaytee]

The biggest concept I took from KC was the attention budget. It has helped me to settle down and learn something more thoroughly before adding mire challenges.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

What have I learned? Tons of great stuff! The man is fantastic!!!

My hero!!!

 

What have I retained? Well.......You see there is a problem. I'll keep reviewing and practising.

 

:thumbsup: for Keith!

 

Dave

[Mister Tee]

I think just like anything it is a good text to read but you have to supplement that with training and practice to make it all come together.

[Huzband]

I think just like anything it is a good text to read but you have to supplement that with training and practice to make it all come together.

 

And you're exactly right. Reading a text or watching a video is nowhere near applying practical application. Driving, riding, shooting. It all comes down to practice. The more you do it, the more proficient you are at it.

 

And so you can't just read & watch, you have to get out there & practice. And practice. And practice.

 

Which is what I intend to do once I replace my worn-out rear tire. Maybe I could turn my RT into a sport touring slide bike for KC.

[Whip]

I get more from his mag articles. I think he has improved as a writer or maybe has someone else doing the writing.

 

I have Twist of Wrist I and II with the video for II.

 

My ten dollars(his thought gimic) don't go as far as it used to.

 

IMHO...I think he is prolly better in person, those comic books were not very well written.

 

YMMV

 

Nothing can compare with track time. I wish I could do more.

 

 

[Horse]

Nothing can compare with track time

 

Really? Doesn't that just offer the opportunity to endlessly repeat the same mistakes?

 

Unless, that is, you have the ability to analyse what you're doing* and determine what to alter. For many riders, that's what KC's methods provide. [iMHO]

 

 

* Assuming you survive any mistakes

[Whip]

I think you answered your own question.

 

 

[Horse]

I think you answered your own question.

 

So, to clarify:

 

For many (if not most?) riders, track time - indeed, often road time - allows them to endlessly repeat the same mistakes.

 

Those people may benefit from structured or specific training.

 

For the rest - including you - KC (or any other training) isn't needed.

 

 

OK, think that answers the OP's question for you and me

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

Trolling, trolling, trolling, keep those doggies trolling Rawhyde

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

I think just like anything it is a good text to read but you have to supplement that with training and practice to make it all come together.

 

And you're exactly right. Reading a text or watching a video is nowhere near applying practical application. Driving, riding, shooting. It all comes down to practice. The more you do it, the more proficient you are at it.

 

And so you can't just read & watch, you have to get out there & practice. And practice. And practice.

 

Which is what I intend to do once I replace my worn-out rear tire. Maybe I could turn my RT into a sport touring slide bike for KC.

 

You guys are both right on the spot! I see my riding and working to always improve as much like riding a horse. I belive every time someone mounts a horse they are either teaching him or unteaching him. I've trained many horses and have seen this happen time and again.

 

When we ride, I believe we are either working to maintain and/or improve our skills or by neglect we are loosing our acquired skills.

 

Keith has been a great help to me in finding new and better direction!

 

Dave

[Chris K]

1)Body Position!

2)Using the vanishing point to read corners.

3)Pick a turn in point.

4)Finish your braking before you turn in,

5)Quick turn in can minimize lean.

6)Be smooth, smooth, smooth

 

I try to consciously work on each of these points each time I ride.

 

[Bernie]

Ditto Chris K.

If you do not go out and ride, you will lose your skills.

See it over and over again, no matter what the activity, if you do not practice, you can not get better.

Yes, of course it is important to do the maneuvers the right way.

That is why it is important to right with others and not always alone. It is also important that your riding partners/buddies critic your riding style and vice versa. Other wise it is just a ride.

 

[Huzband]

So, Bernie, you saying I can tell you all you did wrong on our last ride?

 

 

[Whip]

I think you answered your own question.

 

So, to clarify:

 

For many (if not most?) riders, track time - indeed, often road time - allows them to endlessly repeat the same mistakes.

 

Those people may benefit from structured or specific training.

 

For the rest - including you - KC (or any other training) isn't needed.

 

 

OK, think that answers the OP's question for you and me

 

 

 

 

 

Unless, that is, you have the ability to analyse what you're doing* and determine what to alter.

 

 

 

There is truth in your words.

 

 

Sorry I didn't explain better. I am not formally taught in riding, but I read and understand what it takes. KC's methods are not the only ones...Pridmore says they suck.

 

The Isle of Man riders almost all use the Pridmore theory. They feel it works better on rough surfaces. I have never been there.

 

 

 

I am self taught in golf too, ya wanna play?

 

 

 

 

 

[Huzband]

Interesting comment, Whip. I didn't know RP & KC had such differences. It would be entertaining to take their courses back to back & evaluate the contradictions. That is if one had the time & money to do so.

 

Maybe I could apply for gubment grant...

[Bernie]

Yes, of course.

If you can remember.

[Huzband]

All I remember is you were in good form & I enjoyed chasing you. Mounting a new rear tar in the am, so let's do it again soon. BTW, I have a new victim...err, I mean good rider on an ST1100 that I think would fit in well. He's done some Keith Code as well as Larry Grodsky. We had a fun ride down to Daytona & back a few weeks ago to gawk at the K16GT. He followed me down, & I followed him back. He's smooth & not afraid of speed.

[Bernie]

Well, anytime you want to go.

And you can critique my riding any time, maybe it helps. As long as you do a better job then our wiz-bang Prez.

Going out Sunday after BMW-NEF to clear my head from that confusing affair and I plan to go riding Monday also.

Maybe Matt can come along also.

[Huzband]

Monday might be doable.

[Boffin]

Monday might be doable.

 

Take it to PM guys....

 

Andy

[Jim Moore]

Monday might be doable.

When? Ping me.

[Jim Moore]

[sorry I didn't explain better. I am not formally taught in riding, but I read and understand what it takes. KC's methods are not the only ones...Pridmore says they suck.

 

Having taken both, I can tell you that their methods and techniques are almost exactly the same. they use different terminology, but if you listen closely they say basically the same things. There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you have to hear something several different ways before it clicks.

[Horse]

The Isle of Man riders almost all use the Pridmore theory. They feel it works better on rough surfaces. I have never been there.

 

 

 

I am self taught in golf too, ya wanna play?

 

 

 

 

 

IoM? Me neither - and I'm a few thousand miles closer than you One day (well, week )

 

Golf? Nah, waste of a nice walk in the countryside . . . I'll throw a ball for the dogs instead. At least they bring it back and I don't have to go and find it . . . only to hit it away again . . . and again . . . and again . . .

 

 

[Horse]

[sorry I didn't explain better. I am not formally taught in riding, but I read and understand what it takes. KC's methods are not the only ones...Pridmore says they suck.

 

Having taken both, I can tell you that their methods and techniques are almost exactly the same. they use different terminology, but if you listen closely they say basically the same things. There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you have to hear something several different ways before it clicks.

 

Perhaps I should expand on mu background, and actually answer the OP's original question

 

My riding background is exclusively road, apart from a few laps of a couple of circuits. Training was UK police 'roadcraft' based, until I read TWOTW in the mid-80s. That really impressed me, and I introduced several aspects - particularly the ref points and determining (and so fixing) problems - into my own training courses.

 

However, the book was aimed at track riding, so took some adapting - at times considerably!

 

TWOTW2, with the emphasis on survival reactions, fight or flight etc., was easier to adapt for road use.

 

In '92 I got involved with the MSF, taking both MRC & ERC, then in '94 qualifying as a RiderCoach.

 

To be honest, and IMHO, the 'best' comes as nuggets from each of the three - UK, KC, MSF. I'd recommend anyone to get as much wide-ranging experience as possible.

 

 

NB I also boought and read (for some people the two may not go together) KC's 'Soft Science' book. Folks, stick with the other 2

 

 

[Whip]

[sorry I didn't explain better. I am not formally taught in riding, but I read and understand what it takes. KC's methods are not the only ones...Pridmore says they suck.

 

Having taken both, I can tell you that their methods and techniques are almost exactly the same. they use different terminology, but if you listen closely they say basically the same things. There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you have to hear something several different ways before it clicks.

 

Maybe we ain't talking about the same dudes.

 

I have not been to either one of their schools, but Reg Pridmore did spend a few minutes with me and a few others at a local(promoting his school) trackday. He described his methods and the differences with Code. They are very clear and different. Reg does not believe in biting the mirrors. He wants your belly button always pointing at the triple tree. He wants you to move your lower body around the bike and minimize the movement of your upper body. None of that sounds like what I understand as Codes method. Maybe his son Jason is more like Code.

 

 

[Jim Moore]

At our class he talked about getting off the bike prior to the turn, and lead ing with your chin. Code talks about getting off the bike prior to the turn, and looking into the apex as you start your turn. Different words, same thing. All of the instructors at Pridmore's school riode exactly like all the instructors at Code's school.

 

I think Pridmore has kinda made it his "thing" to claim to be different from Code. In reality, not so much.

[Whip]

Fair enough.

 

[Huzband]

Not that it makes any diff, but one has won Daytona...

 

Nah, makes no never mind to us mortals. We can learn from both & decifer what works best for us individually.

 

Reminds me of TyTass taking a Jim Ford class after RideSmart. If I'm not mistaken, JF scolded him for supposedly "hanging off". TyTass subsequently behaved for the rest of the weekend, but then implemented a combination of techniques there after. No doudt he's a better rider now.

[Whip]

The song is good too.

 

 

 

[Huzband]

Probably a matter of taste. But I'm guessing by the engine sound & the tach he wasn't on an R90S.

 

'scuse me for being a puritan.

[Bill_Walker]

You guys are both right on the spot! I see my riding and working to always improve as much like riding a horse. I belive every time someone mounts a horse they are either teaching him or unteaching him. I've trained many horses and have seen this happen time and again.

 

Yup, but also just like riding a horse, there are some problems that will never be fixed without an "eye on the ground" to tell you what you're doing wrong and how to fix it. Reading the books and watching the videos and practicing is great. Getting real coaching is better.

[Keith Code]

HI,

 

I saw this thread on my Google Alerts. I have read the rules.

 

Something I realized a long time ago is that riding, being a passionate endeavor, requires passion to both teach or to learn. Most, but not all, people don't shed their riding errors by simply being told or reading something or watching. Everyone has watched a better rider ride. If that's all it took we'd all be better riders as soon as we saw better riding. As mentioned above, honest to goodness coaching is the key.

 

When a riding technique or technical skill is discussed it is much better to discuss it based on its own merits and liabilities not compared to some other technique or method of training a rider to use it. Better to focus on what it is and why than what it's not.

 

Arguments abound on riding skills, techniques and training programs more because of the sport's passion than anything else. Of course, once passion is factored in, we get into why we don't discuss politics and religion--if we're smart.

 

There are a finite number of core technical skills which are necessary for success. I have convincing proof of this. If rider training does not address these points the rider looses his footing and cannot gain the confidence he seeks.

 

There are ways to give a rider the impression he is making progress. For example: Lets say you train a rider to steer his bike quickly, as in accident avoidance, and correctly at 15 mph. He knows and you know he's doing it well. You then reinforce this with the true fact that these same actions and technique will work at any speed.

 

In another scenario let's take that same rider and same drill and bump the speed up 5 mph. In 28 out of 30 cases the technique and its effectiveness fall apart. What does it require to bring it back? In most cases a complete retrain on what had been previously done to make it right for 15 mph. I have convincing proof of this.

 

You can weigh one training technique against another once it is put into perspective, tested and proven to be effective. This takes a long time, with many thousands of riders trained, to discover.

 

What's my point? Get all the training you can. Read and view all the material you can get hold of. Get your mates together and rent a track so you can go and practice them. You could also go to track days and you could go to schools. In any case, you are relieved of the normal street riding concerns allowing you to focus on the riding and not the distractions. In that safe an environment, you may begin to discover the distractions you take with you every time you ride, no matter where it is.

 

I believe that is a huge benefit to any rider wishing to improve.

 

 

 

 

 

[lawnchairboy]

thanks for your thoughts,

 

I had a blast and learned some things at Barber a few years ago.

 

 

 

 

[norah]

Thanks for posting Keith!! I've been lurking this thread for a few days but now I'm going to post. I started riding in the 80's and lived near Malibu. Someone got me a copy of a Twist of the Wrist and it became my bible. I would read a chapter and then go ride Latigo Canyon back a forth and spend my 10 dollars on either breaking, corner speed, type of turn, etc. Your book taught me a lot. I've never tried the track but will do so one day for the very reason that you stated. To get all else out of your head and concentrate only on the ride. You can bet your class will be my first. Thanks again!

[beemerman2k]

Woah, Keith Code! We're not worthy (where's that bowing icon when you need it?)

 

Thanks for dropping in! Do hang out here often

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

You guys are both right on the spot! I see my riding and working to always improve as much like riding a horse. I belive every time someone mounts a horse they are either teaching him or unteaching him. I've trained many horses and have seen this happen time and again.

 

Yup, but also just like riding a horse, there are some problems that will never be fixed without an "eye on the ground" to tell you what you're doing wrong and how to fix it. Reading the books and watching the videos and practicing is great. Getting real coaching is better.

 

Thanks Bill!

 

I couldn't agree more! This is why I ask my riding buddies, that I respect, to please offer comments on my ridding when they see something that could be improved upon.

 

Dave

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

Many thanks for sharing your thoughts Keith!

 

Dave

[Mister Tee]

Keith, you have a big following on gsxr.com too, I posted the link to this thread for them to see it.

[jaytee]

Rock on, Keith Code! Totw was my first Moto book and left a lasting impression. Thanks for your passion!

 

JT

[Horse]

I belive every time someone mounts horse they are either teaching him or unteaching him.

 

Errr . . .

 

 

[RTJohn]

After reading everyone's comments, I went ahead and ordered TOTWII.

[Huzband]

This past Monday I had a chance to practice some of what I read. Stuff works, that's all there is to it.

[Keith Code]

This past Monday I had a chance to practice some of what I read. Stuff works, that's all there is to it.

 

That's about all you can expect, something works or it doesn't. I've heard it said that the highest attainment someone can have is to be competent at what they do. Competence in riding is a worthwhile pursuit. Plus, it's pretty much unlimited as to how good you can get so boredom doesn't set in easily!

 

For myself, I'm amazed at how many questions I still have, new ones seem to crop up every day. I think that's a key to continuing improvement, keep on questioning those small moments when things don't go just exactly the way you want them to. First question to ask, always, is, "What did I do." Never walk down the path of, "What should I have done, or, what didn't I do."

 

Keith

[RTJohn]

Cool. Welcome to the forum. At the risk of sounding really dumb, is the 'e' on the end pronounced, like Cody?

[Huzband]

This past Monday I had a chance to practice some of what I read. Stuff works, that's all there is to it.

 

That's about all you can expect, something works or it doesn't. I've heard it said that the highest attainment someone can have is to be competent at what they do. Competence in riding is a worthwhile pursuit. Plus, it's pretty much unlimited as to how good you can get so boredom doesn't set in easily!

 

For myself, I'm amazed at how many questions I still have, new ones seem to crop up every day. I think that's a key to continuing improvement, keep on questioning those small moments when things don't go just exactly the way you want them to. First question to ask, always, is, "What did I do." Never walk down the path of, "What should I have done, or, what didn't I do."

 

Keith

 

I certainly don't want to come across as groupie ( I'm 54), but I sure would like to go over those questions with you sometime. I imagine they aren't too different from mine, as I evaluate every curve I take. Was I late, early? Was my entry & apex correct? Did I have to correct my line mid-corner, & if so, why? So on & so on.

 

While I'm new to Twist of the Wrist 2, I also know the answers lie within. So I look forward to learning more from you, Keith.

 

Thanks.

[Huzband]

Following is a copy of the email I sent to the friend that loaned me Twist of the Wrist II two weeks ago. We went for a highly spirited group ride this past Monday, & I had the following experience.

 

"Just thought I'd let you know I practiced a couple of things Monday. And they WORK!

 

Most notably was a nice right hand curve not too far from our finish point. We had just negotiated a ninety degree left, then a short straight before diving into a right hander of which the entry was buried in shadows. My site line was varying from determining depth of field, where Bernie(ride leader) is, line from Bernie, George, Bill(riders in front of me), is the curve clear to the outside... You get the idea. Due to shadows & lack of practice with this exercise, I couldn't form a turn-in point, much less an apex. So I followed my gut & turned in. Too late. I was immediately pushing the double yellow. Even though I could at this point see completely through the curve & well into the next straight & see all was clear, that wasn't good enough. I thought back to Ridesmart, & more specifically Twist of the Wrist II. In this situation, DON'T chop the throttle. Instead, roll off to neutral throttle, lean forward & in while pushing on the inside bar, then once stabilized, accelerate out of the corner.

 

That's exactly what I did, & while I still pushed the double yellow on the way out, I didn't cross it. And I was comfortable the whole time. Well, except maybe for the entry."

 

Although I've known this in the back of my mind for years, I've never brought it to the front as I did then. And it was because I read it & saw it in the video so clearly. I finally had the confidence to practice it.

 

Like KC says, don't trust your tires, trust your skills.

 

 

[BubbaLa]

don't think this technique has been mentioned, but it's the best one i got out of the book

 

that is putting your weight on the outside peg when in a turn.

 

it steadies the bike and allows for quick change of direction.

 

 

[Keith Code]

This is all great stuff, you have no idea how good it makes me feel to hear those kinds of successes.

 

Body positioning has become a hot topic. Sport riders for sure all would like to look GP. When that research started back in the early 90s it was interesting to note that the only advantage to hanging off was to lower the combined bike and rider C Of G to reduce lean angle. Back then you saw a lot of strange riding positions. Actually I'll shut up and give you a link to something I wrote a while back. http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=1362

 

Just one point on the outside peg pressure. Is it the pressure that is applied to the peg that makes it feel steady and turn easier? Or is it something else that is happening which makes it feel that way?

 

Keith