oldironhead Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 In very slow speed turns, the handlebars feel very heavy and want to flop over to the inside of the turn. Feels just like low pressure in the front tire, but that's not it. Got 35# in it. I recall seeing a thread on this recently, but I can't find it. Any ideas? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Evening oldironhead Assuming nothing physically binding or bent then more than likely it’s the tire shape. Motorcycle tires have a round profile & once they wear flat in the center the turn in can start acting mighty strange. Added: might even be the rear tire, -- when they wear flat in the center ridges form on each side of the center flat band so when the bike is laid over it not only balances on that peaked ridge but the tire instantly offsets from center to ride on the off-center ridge. Link to comment
hopz Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The earlier thread might have been mine. The bike I did a test ride on felt just like that. In my case it was air pressure... What dirtrider said is likely to be yours... if the pressure is really 35#. Link to comment
Linz Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 My ME 880 front was dreadful like that when it was about 75% gone. It was OK at road speeds but tickling through the estate at the back of us, it felt like it wanted to oversteer, almost like falling into the corners and having to haul it upright. I ran 36 in the front. My guess, if your tire pressure is correct, is worn tires. Linz Link to comment
oldironhead Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 I've been on plenty of motorcycles with worn out tires before, and even motorcycles with incorrect tire sizes. On all of them, as long as the inflation pressure was near correct, they all handled pretty much normally. The tires on this bike don't look that worn anyway, not nearly worn out. I'm new to BMW motorcycles though. Is this a peculiarity of Beemers? Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 What BMW are we talking about? If you know the mileage on the tires what is it? It's hard to see from here but I would bet the tires are worn beyond optimum life. IF older than 5K miles change them for better feel or keep them to boast about how long they lasted but felt terrible and never will use that brand again. Link to comment
Paul De Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I have an R1100RT as well and dirtrider is on to something. More than any other bike I have owned, my oilhead handling seems the most sensitive to tire profile and profile wear. I have always run Metzlers and I am not sure if it is these tires, or if it is just the way this bike is regarless of the tire brand, but the last 15 to 20 percent of tread life leaves mt RT progressively feeling like I'm driving in mud. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 --- I'm new to BMW motorcycles though. Is this a peculiarity of Beemers? Morning oldironhead Not so much a BMW thing but it is a top heavy bike with a innovative front suspension system. Maybe more a radial tire thing. I guess if you don’t believe it could be your tire (or tires) then you have a couple of options. -You can just ride it & live with it the way it is. -OR, get the front end up off the ground then wiggle & shake EVERYTHING -- to check for looseness, or tightness, or loose upper triple tree bearings or tight upper triple tree bearings, etc. -Then remove the fork tubes & roll them on a flat surface looking for signs of being bent. -Next, check the control arm for being bent (you will probably need to compare it to a known good one). Look closely in the ball joint area as that area bends easily if the bike ever hit something hard with the front wheel (like the back of a car) -Next check the ball joint for being tight or being extremely loose. -Next, look closely at the steering neck for signs of paint cracking or damage. Might be a bent steering neck area due to an earlier accident. -Then go the rear & with the rear off the ground give the rear wheel a good shake by grabbing it at 12 & 6 O’clock then grabbing at 9 & 3 O’clock. Look for movement in the final drive crown bearing, then look for movement in the rear swing arm pivot areas. If nothing found in the above then it’s back to tires again. Oh!, almost forgot, do a search in the archives here on “tires”, or “PTTR”, or “handling” & see how many riders praise the handling of about any new tire they install especially the turn in & ease of response. Link to comment
breyfogle Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 As other posters have indicated, front end feel on these Oilhead BMW's seems to be EXTREMELY sensitive to front tire profile (brand, wear &/or pressure). When I bought my RS used from a dealer, it came with new tires. As I accumulated miles that first year, I began to notice the steering in low speed turns was becoming heavy. It began to take much to much force to make the bike turn and when it did turn it kinda flopped over. I thought I had something broken, it was that bad. Was I ever surprised when a fresh set of tires totally and completely returned the bike to the sweet handling bike I remember test riding. Now that I have gone thru this cycle a few times, the bike always steers really well on new rubber but I can feel the steering slowly getting heavier after as little as 1000->2000 miles (NO visible flatspotting). IMHO, new tires (brand does not matter very much) will fix your problem but the fix will be temporary. TADT ! Link to comment
oldironhead Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 The bike in question is a 97 R1100RT. 27k total miles. The tires on it are Metzler Roadtec's. Inflation is 39 rear, 36 front. Tire mileage is unknown, I bought it used, but there appears to be plenty of usable tread left, at least on the front. Here are a couple of pix if it helps any. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Afternoon oldironhead Kind of difficult to tell as the pictures are fuzzy but from what I can see the front tire looks worn to me & the rear definitely has a flat center strip. Link to comment
blackyam Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hi. It has also been my experience with my previous R1150RS (using Metz Z4 and later Z6), as well as with my now R12RT, that the steering feels "weird" when the tires are squared off, especially at slow (parking lot) speed, but also at higher speed. At higher speed, the tip off for me is that the bike may suddenly fall into a turn after a certain point in the lean. I can also feel that the tires are squaring off by running my fingers across from bead to bead. I have 12.5k mi on the original Z6s on my R12RT now, and I began to experience this "weirdness" about 500 mi ago. I'm hoping for another 2.5k mi on my current tires. Btw, I generally inflate 42R/40F. ---John. Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Afternoon oldironhead Kind of difficult to tell as the pictures are fuzzy but from what I can see the front tire looks worn to me & the rear definitely has a flat center strip. That's what I see too. Both conditions will make any motorcycle steer like a truck. Then again some folks like how trucks steer. Link to comment
tallman Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 New shoes can make your bike feel like dancing. Link to comment
oldironhead Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think I'm going to have to have a look at some new tires, and compare the tread to the ones on my bike. Probably will give me sticker shock. To me, these tires don't look that worn, but I'm used to tires from an older generation of bikes. If there was more than 1/8 inch of tread in the middle, the tire was good. Thanks for all the responses and the education. Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Too many times a rider will tell me that his bike has a sluggish feel or vague when cornering. I take a look see and find tires that are worn beyond what I consider adequate. Sure they have tread depth. Sure they are legal. Sure they haven't worn down to the indicator. But for sure they're not handling the job of turning the bike with precision. Sticker shock probably. If my tires fit your bike you could have 10 tires with plenty of thread waiting for disposal. Link to comment
AndyS Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Have you tried playing with the front tyre pressures? Link to comment
oldironhead Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I am running the high end of the recommended pressures. Would it hurt to maybe go to 38-40 psi front and 40-42 rear? Higher? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I am running the high end of the recommended pressures. Would it hurt to maybe go to 38-40 psi front and 40-42 rear? Higher? Morning oldironhead As a test you can safely go to the max tire pressures shown on the side of your tire. That will round out the tire profile a bit but if the tire is worn flat in the center then even higher pressures won’t round it out to the as-new profile. If you suspect your tires (I do) & you plan on replacing them anyhow you can spin the tire up with a motor or by hand then use a right angle grinder with an 80 grit sanding disk on it to re-shape the tires to a more original round profile. Do not sand on the center just the sides outboard of the worn flat center. Link to comment
oldironhead Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Aha! I had considered trying to shave the profile of the tires. (They always wear out in the center first, and the edges wear very little.) I'll try the inflation first. Thanks! Link to comment
oldironhead Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 After reading several previous threads on tires, I see that others have also experienced "handling peculiarities" with these Metzler Z6 tires after they have accumulated some miles and wear. Their tread design makes it difficult to accurately determine how worn they really are. (They evidently fooled me.) They may be good tires, but I think I'll try something else when I buy tires. (which may be soon.) Without getting into opinions on which tire is better, is there any tire that you guys find has good wear indicators? Link to comment
Linz Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'm currently running PR2's on my Beemer and PR3's on my other bikes. Plenty of life in them and good wear indicators. Linz Link to comment
Boffin Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 PR2's on mine too, good mileage and wear indicators but noisy with some vibes. I loved Conti road-attack 1 tyres, fast turn in and good grip. They also have good indicators but less life. I tried RA2 and found they had very poor life and went to cords without warning in under 4000 miles. Andy Link to comment
oldyam Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've run BT 020's ( 2 x sets ) one set of Dunlop Roadsmarts ( never again !!! Binned half worn ) I am currently running a set of BT 023's ( about 1k miles now ) and the Bridgestone 020's had over 5000 miles on each set so far without any drawbacks running a mixture of 1 & 2 up over those miles so depending on your use you should get the same or maybe better. All the Bridgestone have been quiet so far with no other issues. Good luck with your choice Link to comment
philbytx Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Quote I loved Conti road-attack 1 tyres, fast turn in and good grip. They also have good indicators but less life. I tried RA2 and found they had very poor life and went to cords without warning in under 4000 miles. UnQuote Andy, NOW you tell me ! I also loved my Conti RA's and used them on both bikes. A very quiet tyre with great roll in to corners, good wet weather traction and stuck like crap to a blanket in the dry. I usually got around 6k out of a pair. I recently (within the last month) "upgraded?" to RA2's on both bikes....we are off on a 1500 mile long road trip in September on Darth and THAT will certainly give me an indication of tyre wear! Link to comment
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