Is my final drive KAPUTT ?

[RT66Rider]

The bike is an '06 R1200RT with 88,000 miles.

Final drive is original.

 

Symptom:

Returned from a short ride this afternoon, and as I rolled into the garage, I switched off the motor and just coasted on in like I always do.

 

As soon as the engine stopped, I could hear a clicking noise.

When I stopped, the clicking stopped.

I backed the bike about 3 or 4 feet, more clicking....

 

At first I wondered if it was a U-Joint, but the frequency of the clicking was too rapid to be a U-Joint.

 

I put the bike on it's center stand and removed the side cases and muffler.

 

With the rear wheel suspended, there was no clicking when I rotated the wheel.

 

But there is some play when I wiggle the tire.

 

Is my failing final drive ?

 

[dirtrider]

Evening Michael

 

Not really enough info to tell you if you have a final drive failure or not.

 

That loose rear wheel if real loose is a bit bothersome. BMW gives you a little wheel wiggle on a cold final drive but not much on a warm unit.

 

Can you tell if the looseness is in the bearing area or if it is in the wheel mounting flange where it is pressed on the final drive spline? (loose wheel flange is not unheard of)

 

I have worked with a couple of failed 1200RT final drives & both could be felt by turning the rear wheel with the bike on the center stand. They could also be felt in the foot pegs while riding slowly on smooth pavement.

 

Any chance you have some stones stuck in your rear tire tread, or worn rear brake pads, rotor edge wear contacting the brake pads? Maybe even a loose rear wheel.

 

Remember yourdrive shaft turns almost 3 times faster than your rear wheel so put some tape on the rear wheel & ride it around slowly while someone calls out to you each revolution of the rear wheel by watching that tape.

 

Maybe also pry the rear brake pads back away from the rotor the push the bike around to see if the noises changes.

 

[RT66Rider]

Evening Michael

 

Not really enough info to tell you if you have a final drive failure or not.

 

That loose rear wheel if real loose is a bit bothersome. BMW gives you a little wheel wiggle on a cold final drive but not much on a warm unit.

 

Can you tell if the looseness is in the bearing area or if it is in the wheel mounting flange where it is pressed on the final drive spline? (loose wheel flange is not unheard of)

 

I have worked with a couple of failed 1200RT final drives & both could be felt by turning the rear wheel with the bike on the center stand. They could also be felt in the foot pegs while riding slowly on smooth pavement.

 

Any chance you have some stones stuck in your rear tire tread, or worn rear brake pads, rotor edge wear contacting the brake pads? Maybe even a loose rear wheel.

 

Remember yourdrive shaft turns almost 3 times faster than your rear wheel so put some tape on the rear wheel & ride it around slowly while someone calls out to you each revolution of the rear wheel by watching that tape.

 

Maybe also pry the rear brake pads back away from the rotor the push the bike around to see if the noises changes.

 

Sorry, but I have not been able to determine the exact location of the looseness, only that there is some play in it.

And by some, I mean maybe 1/8 of an inch.

Hardly enough to see, but enough to feel.

 

And when turning the rear wheel while suspended, it feels completely normal, and no clicking sound.

 

But from what you are telling me, maybe it is a U-Joint failing.

And maybe the play I am feeling is within limits.

 

I'll be trailering it to the dealer in the morning and they'll shake it down for me.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Smoky]

Hey dirtrider, that's a terrific diagnosis. Lot's of good stuff in there. : )

[RT66Rider]

Got up early this morning and dropped the final drive so that I could further inspect the area.

 

It definitely looks like the rear u-joint is the problem.

And by reviewing related posts, it sounds like a drive shaft change is in order.

 

Does anyone know what it takes to change the drive shaft myself ?

 

TIA

[dirtrider]

Does anyone know what it takes to change the drive shaft myself ?

 

TIA

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=703541#Post703541

[BerndM]

Hey RT66Rider

 

Regarding the wiggle you feel in your rear wheel......

 

I read somewhere on the ADVRider forum that if the wiggle is felt while grabbing the tire at 3 and 9 positions it indicates one thing, and if grabbing at 12 and 6 positions, it indicates something different.

Worth looking into.

I'm sure someone here knows about this difference.

 

Also...www.beemerboneyard.com is your friend

 

 

[RodB]

Unless your final drive looks like

I'd say that it is not Kaput(t).

 

[RT66Rider]

Unless your final drive looks like

I'd say that it is not Kaput(t).

Yes, my final drive does look exactly like that.

[dirtrider]

Hey RT66Rider

 

Regarding the wiggle you feel in your rear wheel......

 

I read somewhere on the ADVRider forum that if the wiggle is felt while grabbing the tire at 3 and 9 positions it indicates one thing, and if grabbing at 12 and 6 positions, it indicates something different.

Worth looking into.

 

Afternoon BerndM

 

 

The hexhead final drive bearing free play is a bit different than the older oilhead measurement that you are thinking of. In fact a small bit of play is desirable as that assures the bearing living a long life.

 

With the rear bake pads pushed back a bit the max movement spec on the 1200RT is 1mm (about .040“) measured at the wheel rim with a final drive temp below 97°f.

 

 

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

Unless your final drive looks like

I'd say that it is not Kaput(t).

If that look was in my garage I think I'd have some 'splaining to do.

[RT66Rider]

 

I decided to trailer the bike to the dealer yesterday and let their qualified mechanics do the work.

After downloading the bike from the trailer, a mech and I pushed it maybe 100 yards into the shop area, and now there is no clicking sound at all.

I suspect that this is because the diff is cold, and not hot and loose.

 

I hope to here a verdict on Tuesday....

[noel]

Good luck with that Michael. Let me know if I can help. Btw, are you going to the UN?

[RT66Rider]

Good luck with that Michael. Let me know if I can help. Btw, are you going to the UN?

Hey Noel, good to hear from you. No, we will not be doing the UN, but I did get a verdict from the dealer today....

 

The FD is toast.

Replacing it with a new one will cost $2284.00

[Tapatio]

Check ebay or beemeerboneyard. I didn't see any on beemerboneyard, would be my first choice.

 

Ebay

[RT66Rider]

Check ebay or beemeerboneyard. I didn't see any on beemerboneyard, would be my first choice.

 

Ebay

Yes, I looked at beemerboneyard too, and came up short.

[Bob_Minor]

Here's a whole bike for a $1000, looks like the final drive is useable. Does a 2010 final drive fit the 2006?

 

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/mcy/2439825608.html

[noel]

Hey Michael,

Sorry to hear the news. If you have to buy new, you may want to consider getting it from (like) Chicago BMW for a discounted price. It is not that difficult to replace it yourself (I can help). Or if it can be rebuilt for a much lesser price, it may work in your favor. I generally use Bentonville BMW if it is something I can't do. I like them very much. This stems from price, friendliness, knowledge etc. And when they are done, you can test ride on the fun roads in the surrounding areas. My friend goes there too now and has the same good things to report.

Let me know if I can help.

 

[RT66Rider]

Well, I am now the proud owner of a NEW Final Drive on my '06 RT.

The original lasted 88,400 miles. Hopefully I won't have to go through this again.

 

I noticed that this one has the drain plug at the 6 o'clock position instead of 3 o'clock.

 

Total replacement cost was $2100, give or take a few.

Dealer said that it comes with a 2-year warranty, but they kept the old one because of a 'Core Charge'

Probably should have asked for more information on that....

[NewBlue]

Core on a reman unit or warranty repair. If they put a new FD in on your dime the old one belongs to you. No way I'd let that go, pick it up and sell it or have it rebuilt and sell it as such or keep it as a spare.

[aggieengineer]

Absolutely. You paid for an entire, new final drive. Mail order out-the-door price is $1793. Somebody probably doesn't want that thing circulating around and scrutinized. Get it back, and don't take "no" for an answer.

[terryofperry]

Core charges are normal for autos, specifically water pumps, starters, alternators, etc. I would get it back, never heard of a core charge for a final drive. If I purchase a new final drive the old is coming home with me.

 

Terry

[RT66Rider]

Called the dealer back and asked for an explanation of the core charge, and it was as though I had asked him to explain Relativity to me in 30 seconds.

Somewhere in there he mentioned a $200 core charge, but according to my receipt, I was not credited anything.

 

Summary of the receipt:

 

Parts: $1,793.92 - New Final Drive

Labor: $160.31 - I assume this covers 2 hours worth of labor

Other: $16.03 - mystery charge, maybe holy water

 

I'll be going back to get my FD first thing Monday morning....

 

[SuperG]

$16 would be the FD oil/lube.

or other shop supplies - shop towels, cleaning chemicals, beer...

 

new FD 1800-$2000, ouchhhh !

 

What does a FD rebuild cost?

Used ones go for $500+, but how do you know how much life is left in a used?

 

It seems flee-bay has used ones here and there but from the looks of it is crashed police bikes being parted out.

 

 

 

 

[NewBlue]

He might try and tell you the FD was 1993.92 so that's why it doesn't show the credit.

There is no core charge on NEW.

If it was a reman then yes they want the old one to rebuild it to sell again as a reman.

With their logic if you buy a new bike you have to give them the old one, new gear - give them the old, oil - better bring in the used.

[bobbybob]

Interesting, at realoem.com the complete FD's price is NOT listed so there's no way to tell exactly WHAT the actual price would be. Can't these drives be rebuilt? By someone who is competent (not a dealer of course) ?

[Paul Mihalka]

The $1.793.92 is the MSRP of a complete new rear drive. For that money you can walk up to the parts counter and take one home. Core charge and $200 is BS. You own the removed used rear drive. Go and get it.

 

Note: It would be different for a warranty job. In that case BMW wants back the replaced part.

[RT66Rider]

The $1.793.92 is the MSRP of a complete new rear drive. For that money you can walk up to the parts counter and take one home. Core charge and $200 is BS. You own the removed used rear drive. Go and get it.

Paul, is there a chance that the labor charge of $160 was discounted by $200 ?

They might try to tell me that the labor should have been $360....

[Paul Mihalka]

2 hours labor is fair to replace a rear drive, it is a easy job. If they thought the labor is $360 but discount it by keeping the used part, the repair order/invoice should say so. I work for BMW dealers for 25 years. I hate it when I hear things like this.

[bobbybob]

The $1.793.92 is the MSRP of a complete new rear drive. For that money you can walk up to the parts counter and take one home. Core charge and $200 is BS. You own the removed used rear drive. Go and get it.

Paul, is there a chance that the labor charge of $160 was discounted by $200 ?

They might try to tell me that the labor should have been $360....

 

Based on what they've told you so far, I sure wouldn't put it past them. And it DOES say "core return" in the parts fiche, but as Paul stated that is only applicable for warranty work. Its a shame some dealers are so greedy. Tell them you have it on good authority--they must have made a mistake...? To give them some wiggle room since they are painting themselves into a corner with all the BS.

Here's a good example for you to present to them: suppose the bike was in a crash and burned up and the FD was melted (insurance paying). No core left to send them. Would they refuse to provide the new part for repairs because no core? Or just abitrarily upcharge $200 to the insurance company for the new part? I don't think so.

Or maybe the bike was declared a total but was fixable with a salvage title. Think about all the possible scenarios--and you will have plenty of ammo to rebut them.

 

Bottom line is, if THEY'RE not paying, THEY don't get the core back. Now go get *your* FD back!

(beemerboneyard will buy it from you in a heartbeat--just the empty housing alone sells for $865 new and the housing cover is $225 new!))

[RT66Rider]

Update:

 

Went back to the dealer to claim my FD.

Owner told me that the service manager should have deducted $200 from the total if they kept the old unit.

 

No hint of an apology....

 

Then he told me that I could either take my old FD with me, or he'd give me a $200 credit for it.

 

I decided to keep the old FD and will try to recoup what I can from it.

 

 

[bobbybob]

Good for you! Called their bluff. They knew exactly what they were doing. Shudda asked why they still had your drive at the shop if they *really* believed there was a core charge and NA wanted it back??

[aggieengineer]

Offer it to Motorcycle Consumer News for an autopsy.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Re manufacture! Does BMW actually do that? Does anyone do that?