Dealer wants more money to fix problem they missed the first two times.

[KDeline]

Paid dealer almost a total of $2000 on two visits that did not fix a pinging, rattling sound in a K1200RS. In for a third time and now they say they have figured it out for a total of (are you sitting down?) $3900 more. I am fighting them, I think they should at least subtract the first $2000 that did not fix a thing. What are your thoughts? I have bought 10 brand new cycles from them over the years, used them for parts, and sent friends to them. This is just way to much money.

[CoarsegoldKid]

I agree.

[GordonB]

Calm heads prevail.

[Dan5620]

Paid dealer almost a total of $2000 on two visits that did not fix a pinging, rattling sound in a K1200RS. In for a third time and now they say they have figured it out for a total of (are you sitting down?) $3900 more. I am fighting them, I think they should at least subtract the first $2000 that did not fix a thing. What are your thoughts? I have bought 10 brand new cycles from them over the years, used them for parts, and sent friends to them. This is just way to much money.

 

Typical dealer...goes against the old argument of buying parts locally to maintain a "good" relationship with your dealer (instead of cheaper mail order sources). They don't care, especially with so many of them in survival mode these days.

 

Would small claims court be a reasonable possibility? And then perhaps a dealer who is actually competent?

[BerndM]

Just curious, what exactly did they determine the problem is and what does the repair entail?

Curious minds want to know!!

[Bob Foley]

If you are in Florida get a second opinion at Baton Rouge BMW.Your current dealer is using you to pay his rent!!

[Bob Foley]

KD-had another thought. Since it is not a warranty question-Richard at Matrixx in Tally might be a good idea.

[Agent_Orange]

http://www.rennsportmotorrad.com/

[KDeline]

Just curious, what exactly did they determine the problem is and what does the repair entail?

Curious minds want to know!!

 

They first said there is nothing wrong.....$289.00

Second time said it was a cam chain, sprockets and guides.....$1624.00

Now they say (and I have told them this is what I thought it was the first time) the crank shaft and bearings, need a short block, and all the goodies that go with it. BTW I am in Illinois now so Florida is out.

[JayW]

How long was it between the second visit and "now". If you immediately pointed out that the noise is not gone, then you are in a better position to argue for them to not charge you for work related to their missed diagnosis. If you took it back months later, then they could argue that a new problem developed in the interim. Were the cam chain, sprockets and guides visibly worn? If not, then why did they change them?

 

Jay

[hANNAbONE]

sOMETHING sMELLS here, Kenny.

[Witch_Doctor]

Had the same thing happen with my Toyota Tacoma. Spent $2,300 on multiple engine services for a check engine light, and finally figured out it was the gasket on the fourth visit and wanted another $3,200. I went straight to the owner of St Augustine Toyota, and they made it right, only charged me for parts and $0.00 for labor.

 

As a side note, I personally have no love for Herbert's in Baton Rouge, too many bad experiances. I used Chuck House in NO,LA and now Tom High in Deland,FL since I moved back to Florida.

[KDeline]

Well I talked with the owner today.....Like talking to a brick. He says parts were replaced and the work was done, can't give it away. I said it was the wrong parts and work done. We go round and round.

[longjohn]

I have charged bike and car repairs in the past that have not gone well, and the business in essence tells me to f off. I just contact the card company to get my money back. It gets their attention quickly.

[Lmar]

+1

Yes, dispute the charges. That should get them talking.

[tallman]

Problem is, they did the work and put in the parts.

Presumably an estimate was signed?

Not picking sides but sometimes it takes a while to find the problem.

Now if you insist problem is "X" and they don't/won't do that it might be time to go elsewhere before any work is started.

Sounds like they missed the fix initially and should have known that when they finished the work.

At that point a good dealership should have sat down and talked options and costs.

Good luck.

[Dan5620]

Well I talked with the owner today.....Like talking to a brick. He says parts were replaced and the work was done, can't give it away. I said it was the wrong parts and work done. We go round and round.

 

I think it is time to name the dealership, who is it?

[KDeline]

Well I talked with the owner today.....Like talking to a brick. He says parts were replaced and the work was done, can't give it away. I said it was the wrong parts and work done. We go round and round.

 

I think it is time to name the dealership, who is it?

 

This round of work has not been done yet, I'm told it could be all summer. They need to get hold of a short block and a whole lot of other parts, that may not even be in the country. The shop itself seems to want to do the right thing, it's the owner that is thick in the head. If I get hammered with the whole bill I will be naming names.

[Dan5620]

Well I talked with the owner today.....Like talking to a brick. He says parts were replaced and the work was done, can't give it away. I said it was the wrong parts and work done. We go round and round.

 

I think it is time to name the dealership, who is it?

 

This round of work has not been done yet, I'm told it could be all summer. They need to get hold of a short block and a whole lot of other parts, that may not even be in the country. The shop itself seems to want to do the right thing, it's the owner that is thick in the head. If I get hammered with the whole bill I will be naming names.

 

I hesitate to say it, but after what you've posted has happened and the dead-end response you've received from the "owner", are you playing the part of a fool in continuing on with them? One could easily surmise that possibility.

 

You've questioned the shop's ability to understand there was a problem initially. Then, you are adamant that they missed the diagnosis with their initial repair. Then, you suggest they are requiring you to pay additional for a new diagnosis and "possible" corrective repairs. And when you challenge their unwillingness to participate financially, in their trail and error shop practices, you protest to no avail. Then you protest to the owner, to no avail. Then you are put on hold, for parts that may or may not be available, so you can pay additional costs.

 

At this point it will be very difficult to have sympathy for whatever your final outcome is...whenever that is. Sorry for your "continued" poor - luck?

[racer7]

$4K extra ($6K total) to repair a bike that worth $5-7K or possibly a little more depending on date and mileage?

What is the evidence that this thing needs all that work (shortblock +)? Do you agree with it or are you mechanically challenged enough to not know?

There are "techs"and then there are the few who really know all the ins and outs of what they're doing and it makes a big difference.

 

FWIW, I'd be disinclined to trust a shop that missed badly the first time short of some solid explanation of why. You can make a complete mess doing a motor rebuild without half trying- how many motor rebuilds does this place do and how have others rated that work?

 

Any good used engines for your bike around these days? Would likely be cheaper if you can find a good one at a reasonable price.

[Guest Kakugo]

I had my best mate (I was his best man so we know each other well) going through the same routine with his R850R.

Bike went in to fix a misfire on the left cylinder a number of times and each time the dealer (which has since closed down... don't know why ) sent out the bike in no condition to perform. So he took the plunge, rode 60 miles to another BMW dealer, dropped the bike there and came home by train. Exactly two days later head of maintenance rang him telling the bike had been fixed: it only needed a new spark plug cap and wire. Previous dealer had pinched the wire and manhandled the cap during the previous service and proven unable (or much more likely) unwilling to fix it.

Needless to say where my mate bought his brand new R1150R six months later...

Morale: if you are going to continue using this dealer sit down and have chat with the owner. Tell him you've been patient enough to this point and you are ready to give them credit since there's a long partnership between you two but you want to see some goodwill on their part given how they have already cost you major bucks for no result. If they remain adamant you have to pay everything, just walk away and go to another dealer. Since you are going to fork out money anyway there's no point spending more on them.

[taters]

cements my decision to not buy a bmw again..i probably won't ever find a bike i like riding more than my 04 rt...but if i buy a Japanese bike i will have access to many more dealerships and if i buy a kawi or honda or yamaha extended warranty i should have no worries or a lot less than if i had bought a bmw...

[KDeline]

I hesitate to say it, but after what you've posted has happened and the dead-end response you've received from the "owner", are you playing the part of a fool in continuing on with them? One could easily surmise that possibility.

 

You've questioned the shop's ability to understand there was a problem initially. Then, you are adamant that they missed the diagnosis with their initial repair. Then, you suggest they are requiring you to pay additional for a new diagnosis and "possible" corrective repairs. And when you challenge their unwillingness to participate financially, in their trail and error shop practices, you protest to no avail. Then you protest to the owner, to no avail. Then you are put on hold, for parts that may or may not be available, so you can pay additional costs.

 

At this point it will be very difficult to have sympathy for whatever your final outcome is...whenever that is. Sorry for your "continued" poor - luck?

 

 

 

I don't want your inuando layden sympathy, thanks so much. What would you do to not be a fool?

[tallman]

Don't think you want sympathy, just a running bike.

Good luck.

Hope it works out.

 

[KDeline]

$4K extra ($6K total) to repair a bike that worth $5-7K or possibly a little more depending on date and mileage?

What is the evidence that this thing needs all that work (shortblock +)? Do you agree with it or are you mechanically challenged enough to not know?

There are "techs"and then there are the few who really know all the ins and outs of what they're doing and it makes a big difference.

 

FWIW, I'd be disinclined to trust a shop that missed badly the first time short of some solid explanation of why. You can make a complete mess doing a motor rebuild without half trying- how many motor rebuilds does this place do and how have others rated that work?

 

Any good used engines for your bike around these days? Would likely be cheaper if you can find a good one at a reasonable price.

 

 

 

I saw the rod end free play on the crank, it was really a lot. So you order a used engine. How do you know it is not damaged until you spend the money to put it in (I'm mechanically challenged for that) hit the starter and poof, it's worse then the one you have. Flipping a coin IMO. To go to another shop would be about a 220 mile round trip, then the whole process has to be started again, and they are booked till the end of June just to look at the thing.

[KDeline]

Don't think you want sympathy, just a running bike.

Good luck.

Hope it works out.

 

Yea, I'm getting a tad grumpy. Had a few bad years with BMW and this is not endearing me to them.

[Whip]

Don't think you want sympathy, just a running bike.

Good luck.

Hope it works out.

 

Yea, I'm getting a tad grumpy. Had a few bad years with BMW and this is not endearing me to them.

 

Sucks.

 

Try not to let any of it get to ya, life is way too short.

 

Start planning another trip ....F---em.

 

L

[Lmar]

In response to:

Poster: KDeline

Subject: Re: Dealer wants more money to fix problem they missed the first two times.

 

Originally Posted By: tallman

Don't think you want sympathy, just a running bike.

Good luck.

Hope it works out.

 

 

Yea, I'm getting a tad grumpy. Had a few bad years with BMW and this is not endearing me to them.

 

With all the troubles that you had last year and again now, if it was me, I would be a lot more than a tad grumpy. I hope your bike gets fixed and you get a satisfactory solution with the owner.

[KDeline]

With all the troubles that you had last year and again now, if it was me, I would be a lot more than a tad grumpy. I hope your bike gets fixed and you get a satisfactory solution with the owner.

 

 

The thing is since 1984 till 2007 and 600,000, plus my wife's 200,000 miles I/we were NEVER stranded or even had much trouble with BMW's, they always got me home. The things just ran and did what they should do. I was getting arrogant, wondered why anybody would own anything else. The last 3 years I have been paying for that good fortune. Or they are just not built the way they were.

[CoarsegoldKid]

The response from the dealer is not unlike responses I have heard from building contractors. Get F'd. Not taking responsibility for their workers poor workmanship. Your dealer's employees screwed up by incorrectly diagnosing the problem. They should give you credit for the parts and work already performed and apply it to the new diagnosis. And what if that is not the correct diagnosis. What then?

[Shaman97]

Joe brings up a god point.

 

Have you ever been charged for "Diagnosis time"? If so, you were paying them for determining the problem. If they didn't fix the problem (they didn't), and you paid for the professional diagnosis, you may have some recourse.

[Calvin (no socks)]

Proper diagnosis is instrumental to a proper repair. Improper diagnosis leads to wasted time, money and energy of all involved. I am intimately involved with the diagnostic procedure, I use it every day....verify the symptoms, make observations, think about the observations, make a decision based on all the data, repair the vehicle and above all.....VERIFY the repair. If the unrepaired vehicle made it back to you with the same symptoms, it was not properly diagnosed, its that simple.

[Dan5620]

Originally Posted By: Dan5620

 

I hesitate to say it, but after what you've posted has happened and the dead-end response you've received from the "owner", are you playing the part of a fool in continuing on with them? One could easily surmise that possibility.

 

You've questioned the shop's ability to understand there was a problem initially. Then, you are adamant that they missed the diagnosis with their initial repair. Then, you suggest they are requiring you to pay additional for a new diagnosis and "possible" corrective repairs. And when you challenge their unwillingness to participate financially, in their trail and error shop practices, you protest to no avail. Then you protest to the owner, to no avail. Then you are put on hold, for parts that may or may not be available, so you can pay additional costs.

 

At this point it will be very difficult to have sympathy for whatever your final outcome is...whenever that is. Sorry for your "continued" poor - luck?

 

-------

I don't want your inuando layden sympathy, thanks so much. What would you do to not be a fool?

 

-------

 

Wait a minute...didn't you ask for thoughts on what you said had transpired? Pretty sure you did on your initial post. And now you end again, by asking what I would have done not to be a fool.

 

Which is it, you want comments or not? I thought I did a good job of saying what I wanted to say in order to give my requested opinion. I think you were being foolish for continuing on with your dealer..based on the story you put forth.

 

Do me a favor, don't ask, if you can't handle the opinions you've requested. I will not comment on your next chapter of, "Gee, look what happened to me now...what do you all think about this", story line.

 

And by the way, you may not want sympathy, but by continuing down your stated road, that's about all I can see to offer. Best of luck with the rebuild..whenever it happens.

 

[Rich06FJR1300]

there's no private guy who can work/fix bmw bikes? i'd say dont' even go to a dealership, they're good for selling bikes, not fixing them

[KDeline]

I did not ask for sympathy or hidden insults to my intelligence which is what you gave. I wanted opinions from a group of people whom I like and respect. If that is the only way you can respond then please don't. I don't need it.

 

If you actully understood my next few post, I am now stuck with taking a torn apart bike to another dealer that is farther away, can't look at it until the end of June and I will then have to pay the current dealer 3 hours labor for this last diagnostic nightmare adding more $$$. It's not about being a fool for staying with this dealer it's about the cost of my other options. I give you I was a fool for thinking I would get some kind of loyality back for all my years and bikes purchased with them.

[longjohn]

Problem is, they did the work and put in the parts.

Yep, they did the wrong work and put in the wrong parts. When that happened to me my card company refunded my money. I didn't get what I paid for. Aren't I entitled to a refund?

[tallman]

Not exactly.

 

But, this should be a different thread.

Ken & Kate are friends of many years and their recent travails

have put them through a lot of expense and stress.

I'm hoping this problem is resolved and they are on the road to many trouble free miles.

Best wishes.

[Bob Foley]

KD-- If you have another bike you can ride--think about parting out the problem bike and washing your hands of the entire mess.. It might save you money in the long run.

[KDeline]

I'm considering that but this is Kate's bike and she really wants to keep it. Looking at possible used motors just leary of getting one in worse condition and paying said dealer to install it. Then I would have lost more.

[KDeline]

Problem is, they did the work and put in the parts.

Yep, they did the wrong work and put in the wrong parts. Aren't I entitled to a refund?

 

Well that is how I feel, but I wanted thoughts from people that are a whole lot smarter then I when it comes to this situation.

[Richard_D]

Surprise Kate with a new bike and she'll forget all about being attached to this one........

[tallman]

Evil stirrer of the pot thou art.

Great idea.

[BFish]

Not exactly.

 

But, this should be a different thread.

Ken & Kate are friends of many years and their recent travails

have put them through a lot of expense and stress.

I'm hoping this problem is resolved and they are on the road to many trouble free miles.

Best wishes.

 

well said....

[Bob Foley]

A reminder: It is just a material toy..

[KDeline]

A reminder: It is just a material toy..

 

That is costing me a fortune. Toy yes, but used for errands and commuting most times.

[Skywagon]

KD..trying to think what I would do if in your shoes. Don't know for sure. Read your initial contract closely and see what it says. As someone else posted if you paid for the diagnosis and they executed their own diagnosis you probably have room for dispute. I would probably pay for an hour of an attorney to get a professional opinion. In some states there are laws that prevent you from just charging back a repair bill if not satisfied. Even though you apparently didn't need the other new parts, you received some benefit. You might consider using your history with this guy to say look, I'll pay for parts, but you need to eat the labor.

 

Good luck...and let us know what you decide.

[KDeline]

What benefit? The parts they replaced were fine, no more then 23000 miles on them. If a Doctor replaces my good kidney with another good kidney did I benefit?

[Skywagon]

Bad diagnosis - probably, didn't cure problem - definitely, didn't need parts - probably not, derived some benefit from new parts - yes. You may not have needed them but they do have 23,000 miles less than the others.

 

If you went in because you had a dead battery and they put on a new tire, you will have the benefit of a 0 miles tire vs.s the tire you had with 5000 miles on it.

 

All I am saying is in your claim whether through court, small claims, negotiated, arbitrated, or whatever, you are most likely going to have to deduct something for the benefit...even if you didn't want or need it, unless your contract guarantees the diagnosis...which I doubt.

 

I don't know the dealer and it sounds like he isn't respectful of your past business, but if you are going to move him/her, start thinking of where you can land. Paying for parts only might be a good place to think about.

[KDeline]

I guess I'm the brick. I just cannot see how I have to pay Advanced schooled techs for something that did NOTHING to fix the real problem. The fact that they worked on the wrong side of the engine just boggles my mind. When I was a printer and printed something wrong I had to reprint it on my dime. Never thought to tell the customer "The colors off but I'm still charging you because I already put the time and supplies into it." Times change.

[bobbybob]

I guess I'm the brick. I just cannot see how I have to pay Advanced schooled techs for something that did NOTHING to fix the real problem. The fact that they worked on the wrong side of the engine just boggles my mind. When I was a printer and printed something wrong I had to reprint it on my dime. Never thought to tell the customer "The colors off but I'm still charging you because I already put the time and supplies into it." Times change.

 

Well, I agree and apparently so do a LOT of other folks here. What I don't understand is why you are seeking a "2nd opinion" from another dealer? It was just suggested and I also agree--spend that money on a lawyer and sue the jerks for "moto-malpractice" or whatever you want to call it. Plus legal fees. If all is as you say it is, they are guilty as sin and the law should make you whole again.