Almost hit while lane splitting

[beemerman2k]

OK. I'm back and stable. These angry bursts aren't like me, and I am sorry for the people I alienated in this thread. They did, however, serve me well at work today.

 

I beat many software development drums (oop, patterns, reusability, interfaces, components -- anything other than a huge monolithic morass of highly interdependent code); it's just better to do it right the first time than to slap a morass of junk together and move it to production. We have these unbelievable bugs in this thing, and I have been put under extreme pressure to fix them so this thing to ship. For the past 5 days, I have been working around the clock, literally. 8am until 10pm. Today I snapped (as you might imagine :smirk: For years now, I have been urging management to allow me to clean up this mess, but every request was denied. Now, they want me to work miracles with this spaghetti, ain't gonna happen. So I uncharacteristically chewed off some heads and won some concessions; I will get my way in rewriting this mess. And what a mess it is!

 

So all in all, a net win on the day.

 

Now, where were we...Oh yeah, something about airplane pilots

[Glenn Reed]

James,

 

a) Glad you figured out your blood sugar problem, and got it back to where it needs to be.

b) Again, glad you were able to get management to listen (finally) to your points about the software, and it's support issues.

c) Personally, I appreciate that you could take the time and energy to revisit your responses and appreciate how your low blood sugar affected them.

d) Hope it all works out and your life gets back to normal!

 

[David13]

Depends on how far the light shines. You can't tell it's a cop light if you see it 50 cars back.

Hi beams are no more a "spark" for road rage than is lane splitting.

The "spark" for road rage is an unstable, selfish, uneducated, and obnoxious mind.

The "fire extinguisher" for road rage is common sense and common courtesy.

And sharing the road.

James I don't think you need to apologize to anyone about anything. I think you were quite right.

dc

[russell_bynum]

Depends on how far the light shines. You can't tell it's a cop light if you see it 50 cars back.

Hi beams are no more a "spark" for road rage than is lane splitting.

The "spark" for road rage is an unstable, selfish, uneducated, and obnoxious mind.

The "fire extinguisher" for road rage is common sense and common courtesy.

And sharing the road.

James I don't think you need to apologize to anyone about anything. I think you were quite right.

dc

 

For me, anyway....I couldn't care less if a bike splits past me.

 

But When some a-hole is riding around with their high beams on I start to have all kinds of inhospitable thoughts about the rider. It is rude, obnoxious, dangerous, and apparently also illegal.

 

[beemerman2k]

James I don't think you need to apologize to anyone about anything. I think you were quite right.

dc

 

Thank you, but you and I see this issue from a common vantage point. We have relied on lane splitting for some time and we realize how "safe" it is compared to the alternative. I do like what an earlier member said about lane splitting simply being a case of risk management; you are trading one set of risks for another. I absolutely agree with that. But maybe some people can better manage the risks that you and I avoid? For them, lane splitting would not be a good idea.

 

In any case, having a good discussion is not about being right, but about effective communication and understanding. We're all selling our perspectives every time we engage in any sort of debate. The goal is to first understand, and then be understood. And when measured from that yardstick, I was woefully wrong!

[barryd]

James

"A man's gotta do what he's gotta do". Congratulations on getting your point across. The support engineers will appreciate it, even if they don't get to tell you.

 

Do you lane split around Boston? I don't recall that I've seen any motorcyclists doing it in the NE.

(except for the two guys that blew by me doing wheelies at 80+ mph a few years ago on I 93N.)

 

 

 

[David13]

My definition of an "a-hole" is someone who "doesn't see" a motorcycle, even tho' the headlight is on.

I also was not talking about "riding around" with the high beam on. I was talking about using it during lane splitting to allow people to see the motorcycle coming.

dc

[beemerman2k]

James

"A man's gotta do what he's gotta do". Congratulations on getting your point across. The support engineers will appreciate it, even if they don't get to tell you.

 

Do you lane split around Boston? I don't recall that I've seen any motorcyclists doing it in the NE.

(except for the two guys that blew by me doing wheelies at 80+ mph a few years ago on I 93N.)

 

On rare occasion, yes, but in general, no.

 

I lived in Los Angeles for 3 years, from 2003 to 2006, and that's when and where I learned about lane splitting. Seemed awfully foreign to me when I got there, but that near encounter with the Lexus prompted me to get with the program NOW so to speak. I was only there for maybe a week when that happened.

 

Cars are often rear ending each other in LA traffic. I was lane splitting on the 405 southbound in west LA and as I was riding between the lanes, a car slammed into the car in front of it literally right next to me. All I could do was to wonder what would have happened if I were the car that just got slammed into. If this driver cannot avoid rear ending a car, a motorcycle would be toast in that situation.

 

On another occasion, again, on the 405, and now I am heading northbound (my daily commute was a 35 mile ride each way from my home in Marina del Rey to Calabasas, CA -- better than coffee in terms of waking you up let me assure you!), I witnessed a decent sized box truck rear end cars sitting in traffic in the south bound lane! What was that truck driver doing that he didn't see traffic stopped in front of him (the impression I got was that he was on his cell phone or dialing it)?!?! When he rear ended the first car it caused a domino effect where at least 3 or 4 other cars were also rear ended from the push that truck provided. Unreal. Were there any motorcycles sitting in that lane, they would have been complete toast.

 

But incidents like these hammered it into my head that the absolute worse place you can be out there is inside a lane when traffic is stopped. I'd much rather be in a position where my threats are in front of me than behind me.

 

I also met motorcyclists in surrounding areas such as Death Valley and other places who told me that they absolutely will not ride in LA. To me, if lane splitting isn't your thing, then this might be the wisest approach. I definitely would not recommend anyone who does ride in that town that they sit inside a lane when traffic is stopped. In general, once traffic approached 40-45mph, I fell back inside a lane, and reemerged in the splitting position if and when things slowed down again (of course, checking my 6 to ensure there aren't any other motorcyclists lane splitting who might be coming up from behind).

[beemerman2k]

My definition of an "a-hole" is someone who "doesn't see" a motorcycle, even tho' the headlight is on.

I also was not talking about "riding around" with the high beam on. I was talking about using it during lane splitting to allow people to see the motorcycle coming.

dc

 

One common technique I often employed was to get behind sport bikes or Harley riders when lane splitting. Their loud pipes seemed to part the waters if you get the analogy; it was always easier to flow through traffic behind them than it was with my ultra-quiet R1100RT :smirk: Hmmm, maybe loud pipes do save lives in some circumstances

[David13]

James

I have to give you credit on your battle scars. I don't think I could dream up a worse nightmare commute than MDR to Calabasas.

I don't know how many times in my modest speed lane split I've followed a full size Harley bagster with an array of about 8 lights on the front. Thedc waters do part, mostly out of fear of that monster coming down the lane line.

Or 91 east behind a big cop bike, with about 8 other bikes in line. I've had cops come flying by and wave me in behind them on that one.

 

 

[russell_bynum]

My definition of an "a-hole" is someone who "doesn't see" a motorcycle, even tho' the headlight is on.

I also was not talking about "riding around" with the high beam on. I was talking about using it during lane splitting to allow people to see the motorcycle coming.

dc

 

First: being an a-hole is about intent. Not seeing someone is not being an a-hole...it is just not seeing them. Intentionally shining a very bright light in someone's eyes when they're trying to drive is being an a-hole. If cars were driving around with their high beams on, there would be riders posting about the a-hole cager they saw today. Having two wheels is not an a-hole exemption.

 

Second: If you need the cars to see you coming, then you're screwed anyway. Lane splitting is about you taking control of the situation. You are going to be places and going speeds that the cagers are not expecting (even in ca where splitting is common). Some drivers may accidentally see you, but many will not...even if they're specifically looking for you. If your plan requires someone to see you, you shouldn't be out there.

[beemerman2k]

My definition of an "a-hole" is someone who "doesn't see" a motorcycle, even tho' the headlight is on.

I also was not talking about "riding around" with the high beam on. I was talking about using it during lane splitting to allow people to see the motorcycle coming.

dc

 

First: being an a-hole is about intent. Not seeing someone is not being an a-hole...it is just not seeing them. Intentionally shining a very bright light in someone's eyes when they're trying to drive is being an a-hole. If cars were driving around with their high beams on, there would be riders posting about the a-hole cager they saw today. Having two wheels is not an a-hole exemption.

 

Second: If you need the cars to see you coming, then you're screwed anyway. Lane splitting is about you taking control of the situation. You are going to be places and going speeds that the cagers are not expecting (even in ca where splitting is common). Some drivers may accidentally see you, but many will not...even if they're specifically looking for you. If your plan requires someone to see you, you shouldn't be out there.

 

I'd ride behind Russell in a lane splitting situation anyday. This guy get's it big time

 

Want to understand lane splitting? ***Read what Russell wrote*** This is the heart of what a lane splitter needs to understand to negotiate out there in an effective manner. Going from lane dwelling to lane splitting is like going from a passive mode of operation to an active mode, now you have control of your well being. Exercise this control with extreme care and forethought. By the time something happens, you have long ago adjusted your course and are already addressing the next threat that might arise.

[David13]

Non sequitir, Russell, non sequitir.

Most of the car drivers are aware of most of the other cars out there, 98, 99% of the time, or more? Otherwise no one would get home without an accident, every day.

Most of the car drivers are aware of the motorcycles out there at much of the time, 80, 90 percent?

You are at their mercy to a far greater extent than you appear to realize.

You don't ordinarily have a problem because it really is a very high percentage of the drivers who are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing. Driving right.

I probably watch out for my own safety to a far greater extent that a very high percent of the riders. But I'm not perfect. No rider is.

(Some people object to the motorcycle rule of headlight on at all times because they say it is ... "obnoxious".)

dc

[beemerman2k]

For the record, I agree with your position as well, David, in this respect: our survival absolutely depends upon the general car driver honoring traffic laws. If they didn't do this as a matter of course, a lot more of us would be dying than currently are. As evidenced by some other countries (and by the testimony of some of our members), however, traffic can descend to some fairly disorganized states yet still support a population of motorcycle riders. Countries like Mexico, Thailand, Italy, pretty much the continent of Africa -- places where driving a car is a crapshoot, let alone riding a motorcycle, yet they still support a motorcycling sub culture.

 

These motorcyclists clearly get the spirit of riding that Russell is promoting. An active mode of riding where you have assume as much control over your survival as possible, and assume little to nothing about the car going population out there. Yes, be visible and be heard, but only depend upon your ability to read, anticipate, and negotiate traffic and what the car driver is thinking so you can avoid the mess entirely in the first place.

 

This is a concept taught in the martial arts discipline. Superior approaches to conflict by design. Superior positioning and placement by design. The war was won long before it began, and in fact, the war never happened because it was already won before the conflict devolved to that point. That's the kind of superior thinking and approach to riding that is really necessary to survive out there.

 

Then again, David, given that you live and ride in LA, I would bet my bottom dollar that you already know this, you already exercise these principles in your daily riding. So what's being discussed are the finer points of survival out there.

[David13]

James, I do know that.

But what I also know is that it isn't 100% safe.

On my Torrey trip, 9 days, I was chuckling with joy at the worst moment, uphill, 31 degrees, and snowing.

And at other times almost crying with delight at the scenery and fun of it.

dc

[beemerman2k]

James

I have to give you credit on your battle scars. I don't think I could dream up a worse nightmare commute than MDR to Calabasas.

I don't know how many times in my modest speed lane split I've followed a full size Harley bagster with an array of about 8 lights on the front. Thedc waters do part, mostly out of fear of that monster coming down the lane line.

Or 91 east behind a big cop bike, with about 8 other bikes in line. I've had cops come flying by and wave me in behind them on that one.

 

Yes, the police were great to follow behind.

 

For that matter, I found the LA motorcycle police and the CHP's to be among the most pleasant group of riders I encountered out there. Always professional, with a hint of personal enjoyment behind the "game face". I remember heading west on the 101 near Tarzana, and doing about 75mph, and a CHP on a R1150RT came up from behind. I was dead; ticket city, baby. Instead, she simply waved at me, gave me a smile, and kept on going. The CHP who pulled me over in West LA for employing my creative traffic circumnavigating tricks was very friendly and simply requested that I tone it down a bit so that we as motorcyclists don't suffer a tarnished reputation because I don't want to honor the traffic rules.

 

The motors out there were a great bunch to deal with in my experience

[russell_bynum]

James, I do know that.

But what I also know is that it isn't 100% safe.

 

I don't believe anyone has made the claim that splitting (or anything else, for that matter) is 100% safe.

 

[upflying]

James

I have to give you credit on your battle scars. I don't think I could dream up a worse nightmare commute than MDR to Calabasas.

I don't know how many times in my modest speed lane split I've followed a full size Harley bagster with an array of about 8 lights on the front. Thedc waters do part, mostly out of fear of that monster coming down the lane line.

Or 91 east behind a big cop bike, with about 8 other bikes in line. I've had cops come flying by and wave me in behind them on that one.

 

Yes, the police were great to follow behind.

 

For that matter, I found the LA motorcycle police and the CHP's to be among the most pleasant group of riders I encountered out there. Always professional, with a hint of personal enjoyment behind the "game face". I remember heading west on the 101 near Tarzana, and doing about 75mph, and a CHP on a R1150RT came up from behind. I was dead; ticket city, baby. Instead, she simply waved at me, gave me a smile, and kept on going. The CHP who pulled me over in West LA for employing my creative traffic circumnavigating tricks was very friendly and simply requested that I tone it down a bit so that we as motorcyclists don't suffer a tarnished reputation because I don't want to honor the traffic rules.

 

The motors out there were a great bunch to deal with in my experience

 

Like all professions, LEO's watch the clock to keep track of when it's time to go home. The CHP motor officerette who waved and smiled was probably on her way home with her take home BMW. Unless something really egregious occurs, LEO's have tunnel vision when the shift ends. Motors are most ticket hungry at the start of the shift. Glad the encounter worked in your favor.

[W. Mazelin]

I wonder if that woman is from another State? People often tell me that they just came back from California and where shocked out of their wits when a sport bike or a Harley blasted past them just over their shoulder. I explain to them that such riding is called, "lane splitting", and it's perfectly legal -- and safe -- in California.

 

Many people fly there, rent cars, and not only are they not expecting to encounter a lane splitter, they've never even heard of such a thing.

Good observations. My younger brother now lives in MN, where lane sharing is considered "wreckless driving" - he has designs on getting another motorcycle and I told him he should get a copy of the California VC and learn all he can about the lane sharing sections - then find a state legislator to help with changing the MN vehicle code.

There are no lane sharing statutes that permit splitting in the Calif Vehicle Code.

It's legal because nothing prohibits it.

 

Bob:

 

Thanks for that info. Is there anything in the VC that defines Lane Sharing? It's been many years since I was a LEO; don't remember much of the the VC.

[upflying]

Nope, zilch.

[Indy Dave]

James I don't think you need to apologize to anyone about anything. I think you were quite right.

dc

 

Thank you, but you and I see this issue from a common vantage point. We have relied on lane splitting for some time and we realize how "safe" it is compared to the alternative. I do like what an earlier member said about lane splitting simply being a case of risk management; you are trading one set of risks for another. I absolutely agree with that. But maybe some people can better manage the risks that you and I avoid? For them, lane splitting would not be a good idea.

 

In any case, having a good discussion is not about being right, but about effective communication and understanding. We're all selling our perspectives every time we engage in any sort of debate. The goal is to first understand, and then be understood. And when measured from that yardstick, I was woefully wrong!

 

I thought you were well spoken and thought out, as usual. Sometimes it's difficult to tell how people intend a post to 'sound', tongue in cheek, serious, sarcastic, ect. Living in the midwest, I don't lane split. I thought your other observations were rational as well - again as usual.

[Danny S]

 

I ride with my bright lights on all the time. I don't think it "blinds" anyone and if I'm following someone I'll go to one side or the other to keep the light out of their rear view mirror. Besides I can't recall ever being blinded by a motorcycle headlight. Sorry if some think I'm a Alpha Hotel, but I'm still leaving the light on high.

 

I only lane split when the speed gets below 15mph or so, but I don't have heavy traffic on my commute. I think we have to admit there are PLENTY of guys who split at high speed very dangerously. Driving in my car I've come close to taking them out accidentally myself. If I'm going 75-80 in a 70 zone it's VERY easy to over look a guy riding 90 splitting lanes and I see guys doing it everyday.

 

Just for the record, when I took the MSF class last year, they said don't spit.

 

I would never ride from MDR to Calabasas everyday. I use to drive from Playa del Ray to Woodland Hills and that commute is crazy. Beamerman, you must be a hellava rider to do that over 3 years and not get killed.

[upflying]

I ride with my bright lights on all the time. I don't think it "blinds" anyone and if I'm following someone I'll go to one side or the other to keep the light out of their rear view mirror. Besides I can't recall ever being blinded by a motorcycle headlight. Sorry if some think I'm a Alpha Hotel, but I'm still leaving the light on high.

 

I only lane split when the speed gets below 15mph or so, but I don't have heavy traffic on my commute. I think we have to admit there are PLENTY of guys who split at high speed very dangerously. Driving in my car I've come close to taking them out accidentally myself. If I'm going 75-80 in a 70 zone it's VERY easy to over look a guy riding 90 splitting lanes and I see guys doing it everyday.

 

Just for the record, when I took the MSF class last year, they said don't spit.

 

I would never ride from MDR to Calabasas everyday. I use to drive from Playa del Ray to Woodland Hills and that commute is crazy. Beamerman, you must be a hellava rider to do that over 3 years and not get killed.

MSF probably does not recommend or train LS due to liability.

Does your position of always riding with your high beam on include during darkness?

A few years ago I was splitting during dark and had a high beam motorcyclist behind me. I could not see jack shyt behind me due to the glare.

After lanes opened up, I let him pass me..just enough for me to see the blue indicator lamp on this instrument cluster. He got a performance award.

[russell_bynum]

I ride with my bright lights on all the time. I don't think it "blinds" anyone and if I'm following someone I'll go to one side or the other to keep the light out of their rear view mirror. Besides I can't recall ever being blinded by a motorcycle headlight. Sorry if some think I'm a Alpha Hotel, but I'm still leaving the light on high.

 

Motorcycles use the same headlight bulbs that cars do. If a car was driving around with it's high beams on, nobody would have any problem calling that driver an a-hole.

 

In most cases, bikes are even worse because they are higher off the ground, so they're more in line with the eyes of a driver (assuming they're driving a normal car and not a pickup/suv.)

 

 

Just for the record, when I took the MSF class last year, they said don't spit.

 

MSF teaches many things that are not appropriate for an experienced rider. Their curriculum is designed for people who have never ridden before. For example...they also teach not to cover the front brake. That makes sense in their environment where everyone is going slow and newbies would have a tendency to grab the front brake in a turn when things aren't going their way. But once you get past those basics, you can benefit from the reduced reaction time that you get by covering the front brake lever. That's just one example. (Note: I'm not bashing the MSF. It's a good program. But you have to keep in mind who their audience is.)

[David13]

I only put the bright on when I'm lane splitting. And even then not all the time.

At other times, I only use the bright at night when no other cars are around, passing on the other side, or in front of me.

If I come up behind a motorcycle on the lane split with my bright on, I will dim it well before I get up there.

Today in the car going out the 91 (east) in slow traffic in the fast lane, a cop bike (BMW) came sailing up on the lane split between fast lane and car pool lane. With the bright light on all the way.

I think that makes him/her a sensible person. (Who, perchance, doesn't want to get whacked.)

dc

[russell_bynum]

I think that makes him/her a sensible person. (Who, perchance, doesn't want to get whacked.)

 

I'd use another word than "sensible". It starts with A and rhymes with "grass mole"

 

And I'll say again that if your strategy for "not getting whacked" requires someone else to see you and react appropriately, you're screwed.

[beemerman2k]

I would never ride from MDR to Calabasas everyday. I use to drive from Playa del Ray to Woodland Hills and that commute is crazy. Beamerman, you must be a hellava rider to do that over 3 years and not get killed.

 

I miss that commute.

 

I've ridden with some pretty good motorcyclists and I can tell you now that I am not one of them. I remember after a bike night in Calabasas, CA, I joined a couple of motorcyclists on a night ride (10PM, maybe?) through the canyons and down Old Topanga Road. Pitch dark out there with your headlights the only thing lighting up the road. Anyhow, the two of them engaged in a race as they blitzed off into the distance. I tried to keep up with them for a second, and then quickly realized that it was not only impossible, but I didn't have the skills to do so without seriously endangering my own life. So I relaxed, prayed there were no mountain lions or cyotes looking for dinner, and enjoyed the night air. I finally rejoined them as they stood around talking at the end of the road at the PCH.

 

Now those guys are "hellava riders" -- and crazy, too, I might add. Me? No way. I'm a chicken. Not even lane splitting on the 405 compares with the riding experience that night.

[David13]

Russell

Most most most of them see you. If they didn't you would have been dead long ago.

dc

[russell_bynum]

Russell

Most most most of them see you. If they didn't you would have been dead long ago.

dc

 

As a rider....I fail to see splitting motorcycles until they're right on top of me probably 50% of the time. Most of the time, most people out there aren't aware of anything happening beyond the car ahead of them...and MAYBE the cars on either side.

 

Most people don't have a clue that splitting bikes are there until it's too late for them to do anything.

 

I'm OK with that. I don't need them to see me. In fact...most of the time I'd prefer that they didn't see me, since that removes the chance for an intentionally hostile reaction or a spastic random wheel jerk. (both of which I've seen happen more than once.)

 

We're basically talking in circles at this point, so I'm going to bow out unless any new information comes up. We're all adults with our own experiences and ideas that lead us to do things a particular way. You do what feels right to you, and I'll do the same.

 

But keep in mind that riding with your high beam on in traffic is illegal. And exceedingly rude. And dangerous since it makes it hard to judge distance and closing rate of the bike.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

But keep in mind that riding with your high beam on in traffic is illegal. And exceedingly rude. And dangerous since it makes it hard to judge distance and closing rate of the bike.

 

Amen to that one. Cage drivers have a difficult enough time judging closing rates on motorcycles since the single headlight doesn't give them the normal 57" wide frame of reference that they get from cars. Add to that dazzle from an H7 high beam and the fact the 99% of drivers can't judge closing speed or distance when looking in their side view mirrors and you have a potential for a real exciting moment if you are lucky.

[David13]

I don't agree that it's rude just because somebody says so.

For instance, Danny there, riding with his bright on all the time. I know why he does it. He wants to stay alive. That doesn't mean that's the end all of his riding strategy, not at all. It means that it's one more part of it.

Just like a yellow jacket. I don't think wearing a yellow jacket is rude (some would say not only is it rude, its unfashionable).

Nor do I think their only strategy is the yellow jacket.

I don't hold it against Danny or the guy with the yellow jacket, that they want to stay alive.

Just one more part of letting the drivers out there know we are there.

Hostility? I don't look for much of that, nor see much. To the contrary, mostly what I see is understanding and courtesy (yes, even in Los Angeles).

Most of the people out there have a brother, uncle, neighbor, friend, sister, father, son, someone, ... who rides a bike.

dc

[onedae]

I don't see any problem in riding with your brights on in daylight. It is not going to blind anyone and it is definitely more noticeable. Nightime is a different story - you may get taken out by the oncoming cage that is temporarily blinded by your brights. And as an aside, I see many cops riding with their brights on during the day.

[beemerman2k]

For the record, I never felt compelled to ride with my high beams on in LA. I do have Run-N-Lites and some PIAA 1100XX's under the oil cooler that I could turn on at times, but they point down to the ground and not straight ahead, so there is no chance of them blinding anyone. Oh, and since my high beams are tied to my PIAA 910's which are mounted above the mirror housing -- lights that are so fricken bright I'm pretty sure they are in themselves illegal -- I wouldn't use my high beams in traffic for fear of getting arrested But wow, out in the countryside at night time? Those lights are amazing!

 

Anyhow, I strongly recommend Run-N-Lites for frontal visibility and Hyper-Lites for the rear

[russell_bynum]

I don't see any problem in riding with your brights on in daylight. It is not going to blind anyone and it is definitely more noticeable. Nightime is a different story - you may get taken out by the oncoming cage that is temporarily blinded by your brights. And as an aside, I see many cops riding with their brights on during the day.

 

Do you see any problem with cars driving around with their high-beams on during the day?

[russell_bynum]

For the record, I never felt compelled to ride with my high beams on in LA. I do have Run-N-Lites and some PIAA 1100XX's under the oil cooler that I could turn on at times, but they point down to the ground and not straight ahead, so there is no chance of them blinding anyone. Oh, and since my high beams are tied to my PIAA 910's which are mounted above the mirror housing -- lights that are so fricken bright I'm pretty sure they are in themselves illegal -- I wouldn't use my high beams in traffic for fear of getting arrested But wow, out in the countryside at night time? Those lights are amazing!

 

Anyhow, I strongly recommend Run-N-Lites for frontal visibility and Hyper-Lites for the rear

 

910's are definitely illegal. Technically they have to be covered unless you are off road, but I've never heard of that being enforced. I had 910's over the mirrors on my RT as well (switched with a Euroswitch) but they basically only came on for those high-speed desert crossings at night.

 

Run-n-lights/hyperlites are a good option since they show multiple points of light with some distance between each light. This helps with dept perception. motolights mounted down on the forks (and aimed with the low beam) are an excellent option for the same reason. That big triangle of light is very noticable. I've seen some folks with amber bulbs in their motolights...which REALY stands out (without blinding anyone or otherwise being obnoxious)

 

If forward conspicuity is what you're going for, there are far better ways to do it than to run around with your high beam on doing your best impersonation of the Baron Von Rectumsphincter.

[jaytee]

I usually agree with Russel where lane splitting is concerned. But I have to go with David where the headlight highbeams are concerned. Once I shift from passive to active the high beams go ON. I would prefer headlight Modulators as I have used them in the past with great result ( over three times the cars gave me extra room on a 75 mile riverside to west side commute).

 

Sorry that the angry cage driving Russell thinks I'm an a-hole for doing that but you are just going to have to get over it. Having the brights on during the actual freeway splitting activity has been an intregral part of my keep-myself-alive strategy in SoCal traffic for years and years now.

 

As to it's illegality, well, I have come up behind motors with my high beams on more times than I can count over the years (dozens??) and somehow not a single one has complained. It's a non issue.

 

Everything else, Russell is spot on.

 

JT

[David13]

Well, it's almost comical how some people believe there is one way to do things, their way, or it's time to go back to the name calling.

If I wanted dirt bike lights on my bike, they would already be there.

Interesting comment, JayTee.

I don't think you need to make apologies to anyone.

dc

[beemerman2k]

The truth is, riding in the type of situations in which we engage in means that we're in full on alert mode with all hands are on deck. No day dreaming, no distracting thoughts, no foolin' around; it's game time, baby, and only the forward thinking and alert survive. Therefore, we feel we must do whatever we can do increase our odds of getting where we need to go. That is perfectly understandable. For some, high beams ensure success, for others they don't, and in fact can cause negative consequences.

 

As a friend of mine aways says, "Ride your own ride". In other words, never mind what others are doing, you must always stay inside your own envelope of good judgement and wise riding. Since each of us are solely responsible for our own well being, who am I to say what's best for you in the battle of SOCAL traffic? Entertain all methods, consider all approaches, but since it's your butt out there, you gotta do what you gotta do! If using or not using high beams leads to a bad end, well now you know, right? Next time, they go on/off. This is how life works, we do our best, assess the results, and modify accordingly

[Mister Tee]

I am of the camp that does not believe blinding car drivers and other riders with high beams contributes to personal safety while riding.

[David13]

Non sequitir.

It does not follow.

It does not follow that if someone has high beams on, that therefore, any or all drivers are then, consequently, "blinded".

dc

[Mister Tee]

Oh don't get me wrong, I like my high beams, but I turn them off for oncoming traffic (i.e. I don't use them much unless I'm on a desolate road.) Maybe I have sensitive eyes, but I get blinded when oncoming motorists have their brights on, car or motorcycle.

 

They are handy for tripping traffic lights at night though.

[tallman]

Gotta say there are some dim comments about bright lights, IMO. (T, following not responding to you)

 

In Florida you need to dim when within 500 feet of an oncoming vehicle and when you are within 300 feet of a vehicle ahead of you.

So...

 

 

[russell_bynum]

I would prefer headlight Modulators as I have used them in the past with great result ( over three times the cars gave me extra room on a 75 mile riverside to west side commute).

 

For what it's worth...I personally find headlight modulators to be really obnoxious. And it doesn't help that most of the time when I see them in use, the rider is an idiot...the type of guy who comes right up on your bumper and then just sits there going FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH rather than splitting past like everyone else does. (One guy recently even followed me into the damn shoulder. I was in the carpool lane and kept moving farther and farther to the left onto the shoulder to let this brain-donor pass. He stayed dead-center behind me and moved all the way over into the shoulder like he was caught in a tractor beam. What a maroon.)

 

But....they don't blind motorists and they really do seem to get people's attention. I've ridden many miles splitting behind riders with modulators, and I've even ridden with one myself (riding someone else's bike). I only used it while splitting, but I definitely noticed more people moving over than what I was used to.

 

So...as obnoxious as I think modulators are, I'd much rather see that than be blinded by someone's high beams.

[BerndM]

I hit the PA and barked, "pull over if you are going to ride that slow".

 

Wish we could all add PA's to our bikes!

 

I don't see why we couldn't. At least I don't THINK its against the law. But then again, as my significant other always points out, I've been wrong before!

 

 

[Deek]

"..and it's perfectly legal -- and safe -- in California....."

 

No so sure of either of those..............

 

 

[jaytee]

"..and it's perfectly legal -- and safe -- in California....."

 

No so sure of either of those..............

 

 

Please tell me you are not talking about lane splitting in CA ????

 

Why would someone from Tennessee be making an ignorant statement like that when a whole host of very experienced riders from California have already informed you otherwise???

 

Sheesh.

 

JT

[beemerman2k]

Some people say, "I am impressed you have that skill. I do not, therefore, I will not indulge, but I admire that you do. Great!". Others will say, "If it's not safe for me, it's not safe for anybody!" Among these are people who will even pursue laws to forbid the act entirely.

 

That's why some would make such a statement.

[leikam]

It does not follow that if someone has high beams on, that therefore, any or all drivers are then, consequently, "blinded".

 

I'm one of those drivers that has been blinded by bikes coming up behind me with their high beams on during the day. Maybe my eyes are more sensitive than most but I find it distracting and painful. If you think me noticing you is a good thing, think again. I'll adjust my mirrors (rear and side) to put your glare out of my eyes and avoid looking in the spot where you used to be. Not only do you become less visible to me but you reduce my overall awareness of my surroundings and motivate me to change lanes to get away from you. Same applies for any vehicle.

[NeilCW]

I do ride with my high beams on during the day as I did not think it blinded anyone, I just want to be seen. If it really can blind a driver I will certainly stop doing so, but I am not convinced it really does blind another person during bright daylight.

 

For what it is worth daytime running lights in cars (DRL) are a cars high beams at 50% power, my Jeep (Canadian originally) and Mercedes both have them.

[David13]

Forget the PA, Bern. I want the siren.

dc