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Crash Club Question


murrayg

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On May 16, I joined a club I was not interested in joining, the Crash Club. Persons who crashed a motorcycle and lived to tell it. The question is, on this board how many have gone back to riding and how long did it take to ride with confidence? I now see other riders and I have two emotions, I'm jealous and I wonder if I'll be able to ride again with confidence and enjoyment? I also see riders riding without protective gear and I hope they won't have to experience a crash. These are the random questions of a guy who has been riding for 27 years who suddenly and violently found himself slamming into a car, flying off the bike into said car and bouncing on the pavement. So, what's been my fellow club mates experience going back to riding?

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russell_bynum

I have never regained full confidence in big sweepers Since my crash on the track at Willow Springs (in a fast sweeper)

 

But that doesn't stop me from having a ball riding anyway...I just don't seek out those high-speed sweepers anymore and when I do ride them, I don't attack them quite so hard.

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If I hadn't learned from the crash, then the same problem(s) that I encountered on the first crash would still be out there, unknown. That would bother me enough to re-consider my riding career, or seek out more training to help identify the cause.

 

If I had learned my mistakes that led to the crash, then I would do my best to avoid those actions.

 

On the other hand, if it was a 'once and only once' occurrence, I probably would chalk it up to that, and not worry about what I can't control.

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Glenn Reed

I had two "on my own" get offs when much younger, and one encounter with a car that didn't see me. I learned something from each, and at the time, didn't feel like I had any other choice but to continue riding as it was my only form of transport.

 

I recently returned to riding, mostly for my own enjoyment, and still had a "paint/alphalt interface" at Fall BRR last year. I have tried to revisit and see the many opportunities I had to avoid this occurence and have been back on as much as possible since I bought the replacement bike.

 

Everyone is different, and every situation is different, so take any and all replies in the context of that framework. You will need to decide if you want to get back on, and what you can do to mitigate (not eliminate) the risks involved.

 

Hope you heal well and make a decision you are comfortable with, and move forward from there. Best wishes.

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On May 16, I joined a club I was not interested in joining, the Crash Club. Persons who crashed a motorcycle and lived to tell it. The question is, on this board how many have gone back to riding and how long did it take to ride with confidence? I now see other riders and I have two emotions, I'm jealous and I wonder if I'll be able to ride again with confidence and enjoyment? I also see riders riding without protective gear and I hope they won't have to experience a crash. These are the random questions of a guy who has been riding for 27 years who suddenly and violently found himself slamming into a car, flying off the bike into said car and bouncing on the pavement. So, what's been my fellow club mates experience going back to riding?

I don't think there is an answer to your question; it all depends on the accident and the rider. A motorcycle crash (which I define as falling off at anything over 5 mph) is like a hard disk crash: there are those who have had one, and those who haven't yet had one. It took you 27 years to join the club, which is highly unusual. I haven't had anything yet that scared me as much as yours would. Even though -- or perhaps especially because -- you have 27 years of experience, consider taking the MSF ExperiencedRider course, if one is available anywhere near you. No matter how much you know, you'll learn something new, and the discussion parts may help you come to grips with your previous crash. The hardest part may be unlearning 27 years of bad habits.

 

When I was in my teens, it was fall down, get up, keep on riding -- probably 10 times in my first 5 years, in Italy, France, Greece, Turkey, USA, Mexico. When a deer took me out in October 2007, I had a 4-month period of "mourning" before I got back in the saddle. When I broke my foot last year, I had a 5 month hiatus, including recovery from surgery. In my case, eventually the feeling of loss from not riding eventually overcomes the memory of the pain of why I was not riding. Eventually, I'll have to stop; probably through a progression from RT to something lighter, to something more stable, like the Piaggio MP3, and ultimately possibly to a Can-Am Spyder. I don't know which will be hard to give up: the keys to the bike, or the keys to the car, but both are ultimately in my future, assuming I live that long.

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Danny caddyshack Noonan

I've had one, other than my disc brake lock event last week that doesn't count.

It was a solo down in a gasoline spill in an intersection. Broke ankle and surgery, later (ies). I was very tentative when I got back on the bike 5 months later. It was a work bike so, that presented an issue.

I went for a couple hours and practiced cone patterns and threshold braking to build my confidence back up.

 

I suggest the same for you. Find what it is that may make you tentative or anxious and work on those skills that address that concern. Riding a motorcycle means we assume some level of risk that cannot be entirely mitigated simply due to the mass equations. But, we can hedge chance in our favor.

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Murray,

You'll know when and if the time is right to start riding again.

I've been hit and runned on a MC and a bicycle.

Sometimes stuff happens.

We change.

Become better rider, stop riding, get luckier, the options will make their way to your choice cycle and you'll do what is right for you.

I've ridden when I should have stopped and stopped when I should have ridden.

Get well, keep your foot in the door, have fun.

Best wishes.

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Francois_Dumas

When I was still young, full of energy and testosterone, I crashed my small motorbike three times. 2 of them were my own fault, one wasn't.

 

I learned from all. I learned to avoid those situations, or recognize them in time, and I learned to be determined. Determined to be a better rider and not let THAT happen again.

 

Since I am old now I ride a lot more defensive and only 'dropped' the bike a few times. It happens. You get over it and back in the saddle... and learned yet another lesson.

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About 20 years ago, I had a bad guy I was chasing intentionally back up and run me down. Me and the '91 HD FXRP got sucked under the rear bumper of his '83 Buick Regal. The bike sacrificed itself to save me as we kissed about 25' of pavement together.

Went back riding without hesitation.

And no, I was not able to shoot the suspect from under the car.

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Survived-til-now

I am glad you survived :)

 

Seems there are different classes of membership. I joined the "stupid mistake" category of membership some time ago but at least I realized what the mistakes were and have tried not to resubscribe.

 

Recently I joined the "not my fault" category of membership and that has been worrying. I have had to put a lot more concentration into my riding to try and outwit the mistakes of others.

 

I am just not ready to give up riding but that day will come and I hope it is before I subscribe to the "didn't survive" category.

 

Don't rush your decision, looks like you might still be in reaction mode to the sudden shock after all those years of crash-free riding.

Ultimately I wonder if your signature block will not answer the question for you "I Ride to Experience Poetry"?

 

Best of luck whatever your decision.

 

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I am a member of the 'not my fault' section. I was stopped at a red light with a car next to me and was rear ended. I didn't ride for 5 years after that. It took about a year to be able to work (or ride) again. I wanted to get back on but, a little voice was telling me 'it's not worth the risk'. As time went by I wanted it more and more. I kept going to motorcycle shows and gatherings, just in my car. I finally decided to 'just do it'. My Mother was really unhappy (to say the least!). I had to. It is in my blood. I love riding. At first I was very nervous, felt like I was standing in the road waiting to be hit. I just told myself to do the best I can do. Be aware of who is around me, try not to make any mistakes. Wear a real helmet, and gear. And most importantly, accident avoidance training. Anything can happen at any time. You can never be as safe as in a cage. I think it is worth the risks for the enjoyment I get from riding. As has been said before, everyone is different, it truly is up to you. Do what you feel.

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Paul Mihalka

Well, I'm a member of every category except the "didn't survive" category. Interesting that I had more non-riding incapacitating accidents than riding incapacitating accidents. Like coming from a dark place into the bright sun, mis-stepping and breaking a wrist, falling off the stairs in the house and tearing a quadriceps tendon, a bike falling over in the showroom and breaking a leg. No count of low-side slide-offs, due to racing, road surface (oil, diesel, gas from a truck) and stupidity - remember, 60 years of riding and 1 million+ miles gives a lot of opportunities. I had good gear, picked up the bike, rode it away. Riding a motorcycle is too much part of me. When my leg got between the bumper of a drunk driver and the carburetor of my R90S, I repaired the bike while I had the cast, when I got home from the doctor who took the cast off I went riding - not recommended. When my deer kill totaled the bike, broke my wrist, messed my shoulder, cracked my sternum, 4 weeks later I did a short ride on a borrowed bike (not recommended) and 2 month later I left on a pre-planned 10K mile around the country ride.

I hope this doesn't sound like bragging. The point I want to make is make a decision. If you want to give up riding, stop riding - period. If you don't want to give up riding, get back on it ASAP. No maybe... I'll think about it...

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ShovelStrokeEd

I'm with Paul on this. The urge to ride has never left me through multiple crashes/accidents/shunts. In one spectacular crash, I broke both my elbows and both my wrists and was back on the bike with both arms in casts inside of a month. (Not recommended)

 

I'm at a point right now where I cannot ride due to damage to my spine from a crash a couple of years ago coupled with arthritic hips that just can't bear the load. I miss it terribly.

 

If I get to the point where I can ride again, I will. Over 50 years of riding and it still trips my trigger.

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Interesting that I had more non-riding incapacitating accidents than riding incapacitating accidents. Like coming from a dark place into the bright sun, mis-stepping and breaking a wrist, falling off the stairs in the house and tearing a quadriceps tendon, a bike falling over in the showroom and breaking a leg.

Betcha weren't practicing ATGATT around the house. Up until last year's foot injury, all my bad stuff had been around the house, but I refuse (and my wife is presumably appreciative) to wear helmet, jacket and boots to bed, and it kind of defeats the purpose of taking a shower.

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CoarsegoldKid
...Since my crash on the track at Willow Springs (in a fast sweeper)

 

Turn eight crash on the big course will detune and give cause for pause. I didn't crash but that sweeper ushered me into the fastest desert ride in my life on a hot rod Kawasaki Z1. If it weren't for the berm that keeps the public out I think I would have ended up in Palmdale.

 

About the OP's question. I have had several get offs over the 45 plus years of riding. Most while in my teens and 20s. Except for the first one, I rode the bike home and didn't skip a beat. In all cases I kept riding. I think if the event scares to the point of worry, don't ride. You won't enjoy it.

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Paul Mihalka

"Betcha weren't practicing ATGATT around the house"

 

:grin: I was ATGATT except for helmet when I tore the tendon on the stairs. I was walking to the bike to ride to work! :grin:

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"Betcha weren't practicing ATGATT around the house"

 

:grin: I was ATGATT except for helmet when I tore the tendon on the stairs. I was walking to the bike to ride to work! :grin:

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Now that's funny Paul.

 

 

 

 

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Among pilots there is a concept called "Situational Awareness". The purpose being to keep scanning your instruments, surroundings and horizon to detect any perceived threats. The idea is to get the odds in your favor. That driver in the right lane on the interstate may exit when the right turn signal is on, or may decide to keep goin' and cross over into the next left lane without looking. I always try to give a car, etc. the option to do whatever, cus I'll lose the battle if we engage. Size up the situation, maneuver to get the odds in your favor and keep your head on a swivel, i.e., keep working all the time. This also means maneuvering the bike within your capabilities. I've laid down the bike when necessary, to ride another day.....without a second thought. Stuff happens, learn from the event, work on your scan and ride with a purpose.

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Among pilots there is a concept called "Situational Awareness". The purpose being to keep scanning your instruments, surroundings and horizon to detect any perceived threats. The idea is to get the odds in your favor. That driver in the right lane on the interstate may exit when the right turn signal is on, or may decide to keep goin' and cross over into the next left lane without looking. I always try to give a car, etc. the option to do whatever, cus I'll lose the battle if we engage. Size up the situation, maneuver to get the odds in your favor and keep your head on a swivel, i.e., keep working all the time. This also means maneuvering the bike within your capabilities. I've laid down the bike when necessary, to ride another day.....without a second thought. Stuff happens, learn from the event, work on your scan and ride with a purpose.

 

 

Really?

Not very high on the accepted practices list.

Don't want to seem harsh, but that is probably the after last choice choice for me.

YMMV

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Tallman, I agree with your comment. Not a practice to be encouraged, but sometimes the only choice. Due to my own inattention on an unfamiliar road I once found myself coming around a turn into a 3 way stop with a car pulling out into my lane. Too late to make the stop sign, so to avoid the inevitable, I had to lay the R1100 down. AGATT made the difference. Other than some sorness, no injuries. While watching the bike pirouette down the road into a ditch I was able to estimate the damages. Got within $50. Hence the emphasis on situational awareness. ABS would have negated the laydown option.

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Tallman, I agree with your comment. Not a practice to be encouraged, but sometimes the only choice. Due to my own inattention on an unfamiliar road I once found myself coming around a turn into a 3 way stop with a car pulling out into my lane. Too late to make the stop sign, so to avoid the inevitable, I had to lay the R1100 down. AGATT made the difference. Other than some sorness, no injuries. While watching the bike pirouette down the road into a ditch I was able to estimate the damages. Got within $50. Hence the emphasis on situational awareness. ABS would have negated the laydown option.

 

How does crashing avoid the crash? Your brakes and tires will slow you much more quickly than your geat on pavement. Electing to crash makes no sense at all to me.

 

Andy

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As some of you know, Iput a very large deposit on the probervial farm almost 20 years ago. It was close, but fortunatelly the "deal" did not go thru.

 

I was about 3 months in bed, 3 more unable to use my arms, and three more relearning how to use them. 7 surgeries and a new perspective later I still got on a bike as soon as I found somebody who'd let me ride his for a brief ride.

 

It felt like I had a bee hive in my stomach; I killed it 3 times by snappingthe clutch too fast due to nerves, but after shifting into 3rd it all went away.

 

It's a very easy club to get into, I'm glad your initiation fee wasn't any more expensive.

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I've crashed so many times since the '70's, that it was no big deal. Of course these crashes ocurred on off road bikes with ATGATT. They were more of an annoyance as I would lose time in the race, and one little 12 second lay-down in a Special Test cost me an overall win. So, when I had my first street crash 2 years ago, my first reaction was to try to get back on the bike, but my adrenalin slowed and clearer thought prevailed. Again, ATGATT saved me from any injury and it was a high-side too. The "almost" crashes affected me more, like the "almost" encounter at 50 mph with the 3' dia. Ponderosa Pine.

 

After raising 23 horses, I can tell you that there have been far more injuries with these beasts among me and my friends than on motorcycles. One injury even resulted in death.

 

At least my motorcycles don't have minds of their own, even though they are BMW's. :/

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The only time I can think of that you might as well lay it down is if you lock the back break in a corner. You might as well low side than release the break and get catapulted.

 

I high sided like this back in 1987 and didn't start riding again until last year. When I stopped sliding my head was under a guard rail and I was a few feet from going over a cliff. I had been riding since I was a kid (in the dirt) and the crash scared me off. Lower levels of testosterone, reading up on how to ride properly, and taking MSF class helped make me feel more comfortable. I will never ride the way I use to. I ride in more of a self preservation mode, than a see how fast I can take a canyon mode. Even if a corner is completely clear I still won't go full tilt. There can always be gravel, oil or what ever that I might miss, so I don't take the chance. The road isn't a race track.

 

When it comes to cars I always give them the room to do anything. I probably piss off cars behind me for breaking going into a intersection where someone might pull out on me. My biggest fear now is getting rear-ended.

 

 

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I've had a very bad year in this club. In October of '10 I hit a deer at 60 mph and totaled my V-strom, I walked away with a limp. Then in April of this year, on the 1150RT that I bought to replace it, I had a car pull out in front of me about 50 ft from where I hit the deer and about the exact same time at night, this time at 55mph.

 

In my first accident the only thing keeping me from two wheels was the insurance company's slow pace at a settlement, I was on a bike again in 5 weeks. The second time around it took me just under 4 weeks to get a new ride and hit the road again.

 

I can tell you that it does make me nervous to see a car on that road waiting, at a stop sign, to enter the roadway, but I do all that I can do to make myself visible and ride happily. The way I look at it, my wife was injured worse in her car when she got hit at 40 mph than I was t-boning a car at 55.

 

Perhaps I got really lucky but I think the same rule I learned in 4H as a kid applies, if you get thrown get back on and keep riding. Like others have said before, it depends on you and your circumstances. I have no children and my wife is on board with my continued riding. If either of those were different then the outcome would probably change as well.

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Well i have had 2 major crashes in my bike life both not my fault . One damage both knees so bad it hurts to walk sometimes.But i have never had a thought of quiting . To much fun and clears my head. But to each his or her own when that happens if you a scared or maybe better put unsure about your abiltys after then don't get back on for yur saftey or take a Motorcyce course to brush up

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It's not a club and there is no membership. Your crash was a traumatic event in your recent past. If you hold on to this, it will color your experience of future riding opportunities. It can be a source of fear and anxiety but also inspiration and growth. Everything depends on how and whether you choose to incorporate this event into the rest of your life.

 

Now, don't think of an elephant.

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My down time has been 33/33/33. 1 from inexperience as a new rider (Angeles Crest highway in my early 20's). 2 from auto driver involved mishaps. (Some recently). 3 from road hazards like oil and such.

 

I ride street 100% of the time. I've never been a knee scraper or a stupid risk taker. I "ride to live" as the saying goes. This mindset has kept me coming back after events that would have many riders just hang it up.

 

One either has the drive to ride or not. Riding is not a game or a "look how cool I am show" to me. It's part of my being, and sometimes bad things happen and confidences get shaken when the rug is taken out from under you.

 

I have been lucky and blessed to ride a bike. It's not for everyone, nor should it be. If it's meant for you, you will find your way back in your own time.

 

 

 

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Lineareagle

My first major off was . . hmm . . 4 years ago? Broke a tibia in a sweeper that had not been swept, sand.

With all the time I had on my hands I started looking for a new bike, bought one and had to wait for two months before I was able to go and trailer it home.

 

It was a great inducement to physio.

 

The second was last year, bike fell over at a stop and broke a fibula, same leg.

Left the bike in Alaska, came home a re-couped again a great inducement to work the physio so I could go out and ride the bike home from AK to Ontario before the snow flew.

 

Both times I returned to riding with great caution and some hesitancy, mainly because I was afraid I would be SO cautious I would be dangerous.

 

I am still very cautious, I've dropped 10 mph off my riding, more or less, I no longer ride with music in my ears - too distracting, I recognize I break easier, I take longer to heal but I do love the open road and a bike between my knees so life would just be too mundane without my riding.

 

There will come a time when I will start to change my riding even more. Now it is just too much fun.

 

If you are not comfortable with your skill set take some courses. If you don't like traffic, trailer out of town and ride the back roads, If speed bothers you drop down in bike size and chill out. There are a lot of things you can do to still enjoy riding, safely. But it really is your call.

 

 

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Survived-til-now
It's not a club and there is no membership. Your crash was a traumatic event in your recent past. If you hold on to this, it will color your experience of future riding opportunities. It can be a source of fear and anxiety but also inspiration and growth. Everything depends on how and whether you choose to incorporate this event into the rest of your life.

 

Now, don't think of an elephant.

 

Well of course you are right - there is no crash club. But if someone who has had a traumatic experience wants to refer to it as "joining a club" and if it helps them, and if it helps those of us who have also "joined the club" to deal with it, then it's a club.

 

Now telling that person that it could color their experience is true but in my opinion it is not helpful. Telling them that how they chose to incorporate this event determines the outcome - is stating the obvious.

 

I didn't get the elephant bit (other than elephant in the room) but what I think the OP is maybe looking for is some supportive reassurance that they are not the first to face this crisis, and perhaps the appropriate response is some gentle advice to take their time before making a decision one way or another.

 

So, let's move on to the how it's a source of inspiration and growth :lurk:

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The biggest hurdle to getting back to riding after a major crash is one's mental state. One has a choice about how to view the event and not all choices are equally effective in terms of reaching one's future goals. What's been helpful for me is to see bad circumstances as transient events with traceable causes rather than existential states (club). Reframing the situation's conception contributes to the discussion.

 

One also has a choice in how/whether to respond to unhelpful, obvious and incompletely understood replies. To state the obvious yet again, not all choices are equally effective in advancing a positive culture where intelligent discussion is encouraged, Andy.

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Survived-til-now
The biggest hurdle to getting back to riding after a major crash is one's mental state. One has a choice about how to view the event and not all choices are equally effective in terms of reaching one's future goals. What's been helpful for me is to see bad circumstances as transient events with traceable causes rather than existential states (club). Reframing the situation's conception contributes to the discussion.

 

One also has a choice in how/whether to respond to unhelpful, obvious and incompletely understood replies. To state the obvious yet again, not all choices are equally effective in advancing a positive culture where intelligent discussion is encouraged, Andy.

 

Oddly enough I like this better than the first reply which made me wonder if there was a book or invitation to listen to a motivational speaker..

 

Because I am going through the same crisis as the OP - to quote him " These are the random questions of a guy who has been riding for 27 years who suddenly and violently found himself slamming into a car, flying off the bike into said car and bouncing on the pavement."

 

Seeing bad circumstances as transient events with traceable causes is for me, as I suspect it is for many others, easy. In the "stupid mistake" category one can analyse the cause and convince oneself that it can be avoided it in future.

 

In the "not my fault" category, I am not referring to a state of denial but to an unavoidable (on one's own part) accident when someone else does something and it is too late to do anything but crash - and incidentally, I do understand the view of an earlier poster who believed that ultimately one should consider laying a bike down rather than going with it into a certain crash ... it is even hinted at in the Police rider's handbook.

 

The problem, and one to which I struggle to find an answer, is how does one justify riding a motorcycle when there is a wife and two dependent children who will be affected by the outcome? In my recent accident the traceable cause was a delightful but nonetheless negligent young lady who forgot to look before pulling out in front of me. I can reframe it as many ways as I like but my conclusion is that my survival was pure luck - a few yards, a slight difference in speed, and I too would have been over the bonnet and, in my case, into the path of an oncoming vehicle..... How to take something positve out of that is for the moment beyond me. I am left with that guilty feeling that I am indulging in something that ultimately is an indulgence that is not just my decision.

 

It seems to me that motorcycling is in many ways beyond rationalisation - it is in this day and age of increasing congestion and inattention of other road users the ultimate self indulgence.

 

If you or any others can shed some light on that proposition then we shall indeed have an intelligent discussion - and one that might answer the OP's question rather than talk in generic terms about gaining from the exeperience etc.

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I've been riding for a few years, and bounced off a few solid objects. I DID hang up riding while my two children were young, but came back after they were about 14 years old. Sometimes this is what you need in order to NOT feel "selfish" about riding. The UK has it's own traffic problems, but the young people who are not looking live all over the world!

Keep to what you feel good about, and I know you will probably be back on a bike sooner rather than later. Once you ride for a while, you just can't seem to stop, no matter what type of local drivers one needs to avoid.

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