buying a bike without ABS???

[OoPEZoO]

Would this be a deal breaker for you?

 

I'm going to look at something this weekend.......it's a BMW, but doesn't have ABS. I'm trying to decide if this is a deal breaker for me. I have become very used to having the ABS on my RT and I never planned to buy another bike without ABS. This one might be the exception just because it makes me drool. What are your thoughs?

[Whip]

If I could, I would not have ABS on any of my bikes.

 

I special ordered my 1200 GSA without ABS and my 950 Katoom doesn't have it either.

 

 

 

 

[Richard_D]

Go with your gut feeling.

[OoPEZoO]

Gut feeling says buy as many bikes as you can and horde them in an oversized climate controlled garage, but reality is a bitch

[bmwsit]

I too have the itch for a "new" bike. I won't look at a modern bike without ABS as long as the model at the time of new was offered with ABS. Of course as for classic bikes, vintage, no choice. I just figure its a technology that can save my behind. so would rather have it than not.

[dirtrider]

Morning Keith

 

It wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me as most of my bikes don’t have ABS. I haven’t needed ABS in the last 50 years of riding so past history tells me I can live without it.

 

BUT! I’m not the one buying that bike you are looking at. The big question here is-- do YOU want/need the ABS.

 

The only time I would want ABS is on a late model bike that I was planning on re-selling at fairly low mileage. On an up-level touring type bike ABS makes them much easier to re-sell.

 

What BMW are you looking at that didn’t/doesn’t come with ABS.

 

[eddd]

I would not have a problem buying a non-ABS bike. The one and only time my ABS activated I almost ran into the back of another bike as we pulled off the road and onto some loose gravel.

 

 

[upflying]

My '03 daily rider HD does not have ABS. I perform threshold braking just fine without it.

[Quinn]

Would you buy a car without seatbelts? Even if you didn't plan on needing them? Your riding differs from mine; it may be that when riding in gravel, sand, etc. the ABS wouldn't give you the positive response you expect.

 

For me, I don't trust my panic reactions and like the idea of ABS pulsing the brakes when I don't have enough sense to do it while in the midst of an oh shiiii-- moment. I've only had one emergency ABS application and it kept me upright and on track. Don't know that a rubber streak on the pavement would have.

 

Lack of ABS would probably be a deal breaker for me. The technology is available; I'd want to have it. Can't have too many safety nets.

 

----

 

 

[RockBottom]

It would be a deal breaker for me. Not having ABS was one reason I traded my F800ST for my current R1200R. While I know that many people have done fine without ABS, there is conclusive statistical evidence that it does diminish the number of crashes.

[OoPEZoO]

I didn't really want to get into what model bike it is, but it is a R1100S. I don't think I would ever buy a large touring bike without ABS, but since this is more on the sporty side (and I'm kinda a big guy)......It would be used more for fun and maybe some shorter solo trips. With the intentions of adding a 1200GS sometime next year for long touring and 2-up trips.

[Phil50]

I find my car driving panic reactions follow me onto the bike. I used to have a Triumph Speedmaster and had to stop quicker than I would have like on a wet road, put far too much rear brake on and snaked away with adrenalin coursing around my veins. That's why I went for an R1150RT, it has technology that helps overcome my lack of skill in a panic situation.

 

If I were a more skilled rider and did more miles then I guess that I'd be much more inclined to go for a non-ABS equipped bike.

[Lmar]

After having ABS on my vehicles for quite a few years, I wouldn't buy a bike without it. Its there when you need it. You can't beat technology.

[Jerry in Monument]

Gut feeling says buy as many bikes as you can and horde them in an oversized climate controlled garage, but reality is a bitch

 

Hmmmm..... That's my view of firearms.

[tallman]

Yes, deal breaker.

There are many opinions but I rarely need ABS when crossing rumble strips approaching a stop sign.

Other times, nice to have in reserve.

Deer don't know if your bike has ABS or not and ABS has saved more than one critter collision for me.

 

YMMV.

[leikam]

It's a question of what you're confident riding. You aren't going to be happy taking the risks I do.

[russell_bynum]

Would this be a deal breaker for you?

 

I'm going to look at something this weekend.......it's a BMW, but doesn't have ABS. I'm trying to decide if this is a deal breaker for me. I have become very used to having the ABS on my RT and I never planned to buy another bike without ABS. This one might be the exception just because it makes me drool. What are your thoughs?

 

I like a well-implemented ABS on bikes, but lack of ABS is not a deal-breaker for me.

[TEWKS]

Learned to ride a mini-bike with a string tied to the carb for a throttle & my Chuck Taylors for brakes! Granted, since then i've become much more sophisticated. I know I know, now that's funny!

 

I ride bikes without ABS a lot & don't give it much thought.

 

Sorry can't help it!

 

 

Pat

[John Bentall]

For mainly dry-weather sporty rides on reasonable roads in the daylight... I'd be happy without ABS.

 

Regards,

 

John

[Mike]

Here's my deal: Sometimes I ride a lot and sometimes I go months between rides. Overall, I'm a much better rider than I was years ago, but I'm not sure that I'm accomplished enough to be able to count on my A game in a panic situation. So, I prefer ABS, but if I really wanted a bike it wouldn't stop me (note pun) from buying it.

[wbrissette]

I have one bike with ABS and two without. The one accident I've had, ABS wouldn't have had any bearing on the outcome. I haven't had to use ABS on the BMW (thankfully) in an emergency situation, so from my perspective it's a nice to have, but not a deal killer.

 

Wayne

[outpost22]

Keith,

Now here's the other can of worms. If it's an 1100 you're looking at buying, can you scavenge the ABS off your dead RT and retrofit it to the new "S"?

[ddlewis]

I agree - personal decision, but def not a deal breaker to me. The RT is my first with it and I got along all those years without just fine. Glad to have it now, but would buy a cool, priced right r1100s without in a heartbeat.

 

I can think of one minor episode several years ago where it probably would have helped.. early morning, cold tires, wet McD's parking lot, car pulls out as I'm rounding the building, startled, too much Fr. brake, wheel locks up - bam..

 

 

[Sellis]

Deal Breaker for me! In the last couple of years mine has kicked in a couple of times or so. Would I have gotten stopped without it? Probably, but I did not have to worry about locking a wheel, just grab a hand full of brake and let the ABS do the work. In theory, I should have never been in a position that I needed it, but we all do things we should not do. I ride in the rain a fair amount (especially this year!) and that's were I really feel it helps. There are a bunch of videos on YouTube and other sites showing what happens to a bike on a wet surface with and without ABS. I'm old, my reflexes are not as good as they once were, I want all the help I can get!

 

Steve

 

Steve

[dirtrider]

Keith,

Now here's the other can of worms. If it's an 1100 you're looking at buying, can you scavenge the ABS off your dead RT and retrofit it to the new "S"?

 

Afternoon outpost22

 

Only if the 1100S is pre 2001, I believe anything after that is the servo assist I-ABS system.

 

 

[KDeline]

Are you 100% confident in your braking skills? I'm not after 35 years. It would have to be a very sweet deal for me but I might.......

[OoPEZoO]

Learned to ride a mini-bike with a string tied to the carb for a throttle & my Chuck Taylors for brakes! Granted, since then i've become much more sophisticated. I know I know, now that's funny!

 

I ride bikes without ABS a lot & don't give it much thought.

 

Sorry can't help it!

 

 

Pat

 

Drop another $2500 off of that and add 7k miles....thats what I'm staring at. See the dilemma?

[terryofperry]

That sounds like a wonderful deal, I see why you are thinking so hard about it.

 

Only you can answer the question so do what you feel is good for you.

 

I hate to see anyone miss the riding season.

 

Let us know how the "look see" goes.

 

Terry

[Haynes]

How many times has your ABS modulated since having it on your current bikes?

I have ABS on both of my bikes and it was a huge selling point for me. After never putting the ABS to use, I wonder whether it's worth the extra cost on the bike.

Having no ABS is fine.

[OoPEZoO]

How many times has your ABS modulated since having it on your current bikes?

I have ABS on both of my bikes and it was a huge selling point for me. After never putting the ABS to use, I wonder whether it's worth the extra cost on the bike.

Having no ABS is fine.

 

Two or three times at the most, and even then I think it only kicked in because of bad pavement. I've never had it kick in during a panic situation. That's been 6 years and 70k miles on my RT

[Phil50]

The Captain Sensible in me says I'd save the money and bring forward the purchase of the 1200GS you plan for next year.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

When I had my 1100S it did not have ABS, it was a Boxer Cup Prep model.

 

I had 3 occasions on that bike where I was forced to use extreme braking to avoid a collision. In all 3 cases, I did, momentarily, lock the front wheel and was easily able to modulate the squeeze on the lever to restore traction while maintaining some directional stability. The front end did try to tuck a little but easing off the brake cured it.

 

ABS would certainly not be a deal breaker for me. I have ridden many bikes with powerful brakes and no ABS and so far, have not had a situation where I lost control due to a locked wheel while braking.

[Moosedog]

Deal breaker for me. Close encounter where I jammed on the back brake at just 20 mph and the back end tried to swap with the front. Quickly sold that bike and bought my 1150RT. Even the most drool worthy bikes are no good if they are on there side sliding down the road.........................There are apparently some amazing riders on this site that can control their auto panic reactions, but I'm not one of them - ABS for me please.

[cris nitro]

No problem for me. Many miles on non ABS bikes and it is something you just feel.

[baggerchris]

I have been riding over 43 years now, 25 of which have been on HD exclusively. First bike I had with abs was a 97 RT.

 

Frankly, I have learned my OWN version of abs., called "proper braking". I have never actuated the abs on any of my newer bikes, and I hope I never will.

 

That being said, if I were to get into an accident hurting my sweet little pillion rider Tessiekins, without abs, and the LEO investigating said that abs would have helped, well, I would NEVER forgive myself. So, if the bike comes with abs, I get abs. My newest ride came with all the trimmings including a full computer which I can't seem to even master, but since it was an end of the year sale and I got a heck of a deal, that's what I have. I don't need it and don't want it, but that dang computer is one heck of a conversation piece I'll tell you.

[RockBottom]

I suspect

is a pretty skilled and experienced rider.

 

 

[Todd_Z1]

Keith,

 

ABS is very dependent on environmental riding conditions, your style of riding and skill level. It is a personal decision, just like which oil is your favorite.

 

In general terms I find ABS to be dangerous because it is not predictable. When it activates there is a total loss of control over braking along with total loss in sensation of what the wheel is doing. On my K12S, when I first got it, I used to test the ABS to try and get a feel for it. Sometimes the front end would lock briefly before the ABS kicked in. Other times the front end would plant so hard it would stoppy, unintentionally. Either way the ABS was very unpredictable and hence dangerous, in my opinion.

 

During those few moments when ABS is active, you are just along for the ride. My personal experience both on and off the track confirms this. There are situations where ABS is useful such as braking in gravel, on wet pavement or panic stopping in a corner. However, I would suggest that routinely practicing panic stops using maximum braking in a variety of situations is a better option in the long run.

 

What I have found through a lot of experimentation is there is a very specific sequence of events to effective panic braking. ABS interferes with this and I don't feel it is possible (For me) to get the maximum performance out of the bike. Straight line braking tests, commonly used to demonstrate how effective ABS is, do not take into account that you may still need to maneuver the bike under maximum braking to avoid a collision.

 

Todd

 

[RockBottom]

I think I kind of half agree with what you said. If someone says, "A bike without ABS is riskier than one with, but I'm willing to take that risk," then I fully agree. We all have to find our risk comfort zone. But if someone were to say that they are so skilled that they are just as safe on a bike without ABS as with one, I'd question it.

[Quinn]

I think I kind of half agree with what you said. If someone says, "A bike without ABS is riskier than one with, but I'm willing to take that risk," then I fully agree. We all have to find our risk comfort zone. But if someone were to say that they are so skilled that they are just as safe on a bike without ABS as with one, I'd question it.

 

If you're skillful enough not to need ABS, then you'll never know it's there. If you're not, then you'll be glad it was.

 

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[Jack7]

Hey guys,I want to buy a bike.Please help me in selecting the bike model.According you which is the best model of BMW in recent?

[russell_bynum]

I think I kind of half agree with what you said. If someone says, "A bike without ABS is riskier than one with, but I'm willing to take that risk," then I fully agree. We all have to find our risk comfort zone. But if someone were to say that they are so skilled that they are just as safe on a bike without ABS as with one, I'd question it.

 

If you're skillful enough not to need ABS, then you'll never know it's there. If you're not, then you'll be glad it was.

 

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Not true. Many of us have had ABS kick in and get in the way (increase stopping distance) when it should not have.

 

For what it's worth...I'm not one of those guys who thinks he is too good for ABS...I went down once (very low speed and no damage to me or the bike, thankfully) because I failed to notice gravel in a paved turnout. I braked hard (but not panic braking) and the front locked and tucked. I saved the initial lock/tuck but it threw my feet off the pegs and all my weight onto the bars, so I nada hard time steering the bike. I wound up almost getting it stopped before I ran out of paved road and went off into the dirt...where the bike went down. ABS absolutely would have prevented that.

 

ABS is a tool like any other and there are advantages and disadvantages to having it. Each of us makes our own decisions for our own reasons if the disadvantages are worth the advantages.

[tallman]

Would someone please explain proper panic braking when a deer bursts out of the woods (right next to the road) from your right and is in front of you before you see it (literally in tha 3/4 second of see/ID/react time which no one can eliminate just perhaps react a smidge faster, but everyone has a reaction time to factor in).

The confidence that I won't lock up and then go down allows me to use the brakes.

Reminder, Cycle World May (I think) w/in past couple of years had the new Honda ABS system tested.

[i]Professional [/i] riders.

Go back and look.

It took multiple tries before they got one result that stopped the bike in one foot shorter distance. (Best as I recall).

If riders of that skill level couldn't do better...

.02

YMMV

[dirtrider]

Morning Tim

 

Everybody is different when it comes to braking requirements for their own safe riding. Some rely on electronics and others rely on experience, skill, & proficiency. While others rely on both electronics and the same experience, skill, & proficiency.

 

A-stoppie-a-day-keeps-supprise-wheel-lock-away!

 

 

It’s a bit different when it is your bike that you ride daily. If a person regularly practices threshold braking with proper weight transfer and wheel lock control it shouldn’t be an issue even in an emergency situation. This is on dry roads with an alert & proficient rider.

 

I would be willing to bet those professional riders in your braking test could do much better on a bike the were more familiar with or rode on a daily basis.

 

Now this is on dry roads and a familiar bike—All bets are off in the middle of a dark night on an unfamiliar road with wet pavement. In this case there is probably no way to outperform a modern ABS system (at least all the way to a complete stop)

 

There is also the type of avoidance rider you are. Some riders brake to a complete stop to avoid danger. Personally I seldom brake very hard for very far to avoid anything. Usually just brake as hard as possible until I get a solution to ride around, in front of, or behind the problem. I have hit a couple of deer but never dead center and haven’t gone down. ABS wouldn’t have helped as the deer were way closer than any straight line braking could have avoided.

 

[RockBottom]

I think I kind of half agree with what you said. If someone says, "A bike without ABS is riskier than one with, but I'm willing to take that risk," then I fully agree. We all have to find our risk comfort zone. But if someone were to say that they are so skilled that they are just as safe on a bike without ABS as with one, I'd question it.

 

If you're skillful enough not to need ABS, then you'll never know it's there. If you're not, then you'll be glad it was.

 

-----

 

 

On general motorcycle discussion boards, I've seen people argue that there's no need for them to wear a helmet because they are such skilled and experienced riders. For some reason, I thought of that when I read the descriptions of the wreck David Hough had last year.

[tallman]

Well the last time that deer ran in front of me (from right side going full speed gallop) I grabbbed brakes and pushed the bars.

We missed by fractions of an inch but I never had to concern myself if I was braking incorrectly.

The ABS engagement may not have helped slow quicker but it seemed to allow me to brake and steer avoiding the impact that seemed certain." would have made a difference.

I may be wrong but my .02 is that I stayed upright and avoide a collision due to the technology.

I'm not that good.

As for those riders being "familiar" w/ a Honda CBR600, well, they have been around and they got plenty of practice time.

They were comparing similar bikes, only dif was the

ABS.

In that case I don't believe "familiarity" would have made a difference.

Not looking for an argument.

I agree that some circumstances favor a nonABS bike ridden by a certain skill set (dry/strightline/good surface) when we are talking about public roads and stopping in a straight line.

In other circumstances, I would give the nod to an ABS bike (in particular, latest iterations).

I'm sure many anecdotal references are forthcoming, I'll just go by data from the past 20 years that show most riders, regradless of skill set, on public roads, with the vagaries of raod surface and weather conditions, can stop as well or better with an ABS bike.

I agree that some will not agree with this and that is fine.

I won't try to convince anyone they can't ride better on a nonABS bike than I do, I know they are more skilled than I am.

But for everyday riding in everyday conditions I feel it is better to have the technology on your side.

In the end doesn't matter, they still sell nonABS bikes.

I predict that there will come a day when that might not be the case for "road" bikes.

Best wishes.

 

[dhanson]

I would say get on the PDP for the S10, several available, they should be here in a couple of months and the ABS is super!

 

I have no ABS on my Duc, and it is fine, course I trailer it through deer country!

[bluesguitarboy]

Abs saved my bacon on the freeway.I was distracted for a second when the car in front of me hit their brakes. I reacted by jamming on my brakes and instead of locking up my wheels and high or low siding the bike slowed in a controlled manner and allowed me to ride another day.

[awagnon]

I didn't really want to get into what model bike it is, but it is a R1100S.

 

Keith, I haven't read this entire thread, so this may be redundent. I don't know if the R1100S has servo-assisted ABS or not. I believe they are partially linked. I probably wouldn't by a new or used bike without ABS for all the reasons already mentioned. HOWEVER, I probably would walk away from a Beemer with power assisted or servo-assisted ABS because of the hassle of bleeding them and the cost of replacing the controller if it goes out.

[Linz]

When my ABS servo unit failed, I contemplated removing it entirely. In the end, I decided that the bike should remain as stock in that department as possible, mostly because of the combined weight of the bike and myself.

 

Call me crazy, but I like the linked power assisted braking system. It takes some getting used to but with a light foot and careful riding, I find it a pleasant experience.

 

I didn't buy a new unit, I bought a used unit on Ebay for $250.00 and did the swap. It works just fine (at the moment). I have two much lighter sport bikes with no ABS or Servo and I don't miss it on those bikes. The Aprilia with its awesome Brembo calipers and huge discs will stop like no other bike I've ridden, other than my Laverda. ABS not required as I have so much feel for the whole contact patch on that bike.

 

Would I buy a Beemer with no ABS system which should have, no I wouldn't.

 

Linz

[Selden]

Would this be a deal breaker for you?

 

I'm going to look at something this weekend.......it's a BMW, but doesn't have ABS. I'm trying to decide if this is a deal breaker for me. I have become very used to having the ABS on my RT and I never planned to buy another bike without ABS. This one might be the exception just because it makes me drool. What are your thoughs?

I guess my answer would be "it depends". I still ride bikes without ABS, and if the price of a BMW without ABS was sufficiently low, I could probably be tempted. But, in my opinion, the bigger the bike, the more ABS is needed.

 

As far as I am concerned, even though it's nearly 20 years old (and ABS systems have gotten way better since 1992), Mike Kneebone's article: No Fault Braking: A Real-World Comparison of ABS Systems remains the gold standard for this topic. See especially the section: "Figure 4. Wet Pavement Braking over Sewer Cover" Here are the stopping distances for the "racer," who was the most skilled rider in the test:

 

non-ABS 298 ft

w/ ABS 211 ft

Full ABS Control 193 ft

 

(The "/ABS" indicates those passes where riders stopped as hard as they felt comfortable (the equivalent of a non-emergency, but forceful stop), with ABS only kicking in over the bad stuff.)