Indy 500 Qualifying - An exciting farce

[John Ranalletta]

Andretti buys Foyt's car to get drive in race...

 

For the first time in years, qualification weekend was exciting. With the fastest nine shootout on Saturday and the on/off bumping on Sunday, it was fun to watch.

 

Yet, on Monday, we learn that the most effective way to get into the field is to buy a place. We just witnessed the final death throes of open wheel in the US. Who will buy tickets for next years quals if the results can be bartered on Monday morning. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

 

Next year, teams will save the wear and tear and expense on the cars and simply bid for spots on the grid.

[Dan5620]

Next step will be Ford Fiestas, Chevy Cruz, Mazda 2's and even Corollas running stock, with the exception of fenders removed, to maintain that open-wheel "tradition". Compared to what this race was in the "day" it has been an "also ran" for quite a while.

 

Perhaps an unmanned or woman car would do...robots can easily be programmed to turn left, slow down, speed up and stay away from walls and other robot driven cars. But then where would these race car "athletes" go?

[John Ranalletta]

Stories attract and keep fans' attention. There were lots of stories in the old days. I lived in the Speedway motel in 1976 for two months prior to race day. The place was alive. Drivers and owners were approachable. Some even played cards in the Speedway's downstairs lounge. Tony Hulman would walk into meeting rooms and buy drinks for everyone.

 

There were interesting personalities like Lloyd Ruby, Tom Sneva, et al.

 

This year's quals had some of those elements with Tagliani winning the pole in the fast-9 shootout with a race team rescued by a paralyzed former driver.

 

The days when a couple of underfunded guys could build a competitive car in their garage are over for sure, but letting sponsors write checks to buy spots on the grid is a death knell for IRL.

[tallman]

Isn't this merely free enterprise capitalism at work?

[John Ranalletta]

Isn't this merely free enterprise capitalism at work?

Huh?

[AviP]

Indy and Nascar are the most boring races out there. F1 is almost there too with all the rule changes and aids. ALMS has way too many handicaps for performers. Perhaps Rally is the only series I care about.

[Dan5620]

However, there is already a game available for what's happening now, its called Monopoly.

 

Yes, all you need today, to be competitive, is a long haired blond chick with sunglasses at your side (or you are allowed a movie star - driver's choice), a well patched out racing outfit, a few dozen colorful "ball" caps...and the more European the accent the more camera time you'll get. Actually spending time at the track or being part of what use to be the "traditions" is quite optional and oh so middle-class for many of these racer boys.

 

One last rant: The announcers are all so dramatic and captivated by the Speedway's history, they make the Master's crew look disinterested in Tiger's holy tee shots.

 

A.J. was the best, until he ate himself out of the driver's seat...well he was aging too.

[tallman]

Andretti buys Foyt's car to get drive in race...

 

For the first time in years, qualification weekend was exciting. With the fastest nine shootout on Saturday and the on/off bumping on Sunday, it was fun to watch.

 

Yet, on Monday, we learn that the most effective way to get into the field is to buy a place. We just witnessed the final death throes of open wheel in the US. Who will buy tickets for next years quals if the results can be bartered on Monday morning. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Next year, teams will save the wear and tear and expense on the cars and simply bid for spots on the grid.

 

"Huh?"

 

Capitalism/free enterprise, you now, selling a good or service for a profit.

Many champions of that ideology post on this site.

I love it.

We should be able to do away with the race and award 1st place to the highest bidder.

Our new governor just showed how that can be done spending $73,000,000.00 of his own money to get elected.

If it happens in politics, sports/entertainment will follow.

 

The winner of the Oscar for Best Actress is, going once, going twice, sold...

[DiggerJim]

Capitalism/free enterprise, you now, selling a good or service for a profit.

Many champions of that ideology post on this site.

I love it.

We should be able to do away with the race and award 1st place to the highest bidder.

I don't mind - it's their right within the rules. If someone wants to sell the "2011 Indy 500 Champion" title they can do that as well, but they cannot expect me to hold the result in the same regard as when it was earned differently.

 

And sometimes money isn't enough. Just look at the Yankees. They've consistently bought the best team money could buy...but they're still subject to the vagaries of individual performance and sometimes even the best eff up and then it's anyone's ballgame.

 

(Just a suffering Mets fan here looking for hope )

[John Ranalletta]

Nonsense.

 

Free enterprise is a social/enconomic construct. IRL is a business. What happened is a function of that business' model. Within that model there are rules that have nothing whatsoever to do with free enterprise on a grander scale.

 

If you have a point to make or a bone to pick, this was a poor spot to choose.

[SeanC]

I thought Tim was being facetious in his remark. Anyway, I'm with you on this, John. It's the car AND driver that qualify, and if that driver can't race -- for whatever reason -- the drivers below him should move up a position, and the highest placed driver who failed to qualify should get the last position, etc. Or rather, it should be that way.

[DiggerJim]

Or rather, it should be that way.

Sorry, but it shouldn't be any way other than the way the rules say it should be and what they did is within the rules. As consumers of the product we may disagree and feel some other way is more fair or better for the sport or whatever, but that doesn't make it the way it should be. That's for the rule makers to decide. So if we think it's not fair or not they way we want to see it done, we can always just ignore it & watch wrestling instead.

 

Personally, I don't think using a designated hitter is fair - the pitcher should bat & if you can't bat, you forfeit that up & take an out. But the guys who own the sport (MLB) don't agree and it's their game so they make the rules.

 

[SeanC]

Well sure, if you want to disregard the meaning of words.... I mean, why call it "qualifying" if qualifying isn't necessarily a requirement? That doesn't strike you as odd? Ryan Hunter-Raey didn't qualify, yet he's now in the race. Bruno Junqueira did qualify and he'll be watching it on TV.

 

And of course it's for the rule makers to decide. But it's also for me to decide that the rule makers are effing idiots, that they're damaging the competitiveness of their sport.

 

You made an analogy to designated hitters (which I also despise), but you didn't take it far enough vis a vis IRL. The current Indy situation would be like the Yankees selecting a DH from the Red Sox lineup in a game in which they were playing the Red Sox! And then letting him hit wearing his Red Sox uniform but with a Yankees hat.

 

It's lame, and it's not the way it should be. The way I say it should be is, as always, the better way.

[russell_bynum]

The way I say it should be is, as always, the better way.

 

[DiggerJim]

Well sure, if you want to disregard the meaning of words.... I mean, why call it "qualifying" if qualifying isn't necessarily a requirement? That doesn't strike you as odd? Ryan Hunter-Raey didn't qualify, yet he's now in the race. Bruno Junqueira did qualify and he'll be watching it on TV.

 

It's lame, and it's not the way it should be. The way I say it should be is, as always, the better way.

 

Not disregarding the meaning of words - Bruno qualified by driving fast (under the rules)...Ryan qualified (again under the rules of the IRL) by buying the spot. According to the IRL there are 2 ways to qualify. We might not like it but it's their game & their rules. I don't like it so I won't watch the race. Enough people agree & maybe they change the rules. Or maybe it doesn't matter to most people and IRL doesn't care I won't be watching.

 

It's irrelevant that your way might be the better way - IRL makes the rules & they're playing by those rules. You (& I & others) don't like it we can do something else Sunday.

[Mike]

Personally, I find it symptomatic of what's happened to motorsports in general: it's all about who can pony up the most money. Maybe that's the way it's always been, but it just seems like it's gotten worse in the past few years.

 

I find the technology interesting and I'm fascinated by the pit stops, but the oval track racing generally leaves me cold. A few minutes of watching it causes me to slip perilously close to a comatose state. For whatever reason, the races don't seem nearly as exciting as they were years ago.

[SeanC]

I think Mike nailed it -- it's about who can pony up the money. And I don't like it in motorsports any more than I like it in college football (what a farce the BCS has become!). But it sounds like what you're saying is that anyone who has an opinion contrary to the status quo should keep it to himself. So, I don't like it AND I should refrain from saying so? Where's the fun in that? If anyone likes the current system, I'd like to hear their reasons why, but please don't tell me it's enough that the organizers have deemed it so and thus that's the way it should be.

[RT66Rider]

Maybe that's the way it's always been

Not to hijack the thread, but I don't think so.

 

I think there was a time when driving an Indy Car was not about the money.

It was about the speed, the passion, the risk, and the desire to be the best.

 

There was a time when being an Actor was not about the money.

There was a time when being an Athlete was not about the money.

There was a time when being a Musician was not about the money.

 

There was even a time when being a Politician was not about the money.

 

But unfortunately, those days are over, and now Everything is about the money.

 

It is sad.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

While I agree that passion and drive for excellence were probably the original motivators for Indy racing, it has been, in at least the 40 or so years that I have paid attention to it, about money.

 

This is a hugely expensive undertaking and always was. Ask the folks at STP about how much money they spent. That sponsor money is required goes without saying. Nobody else can afford it.

 

I hate the idea of buying a qualified car to get your driver and his sponsors into the race but it makes good business sense to the sponsors, without whom the entire sport would disappear back into the county fairgrounds from which it originated.

[LandonBlueRT]

As long as the rules are followed from qualifications to the winners circle, it is ok with me. What we are seeing today is what the sport has evolved into during the past hundred years. It is just like any other sport - it has changed drastically, and in my opinion, in most respects, for the best. I have followed the Indy 500 since the mid-fifties and seen a lot of changes in rules that I disagreed with at the time, but came to agree with later.

When I first started attending the 500, you didn’t wonder if there would be a fatality, you just wondered who it would be. I saw a number of drivers go out in a ball of fire including Dave McDonald and Eddie Sachs who were basically driving gas tanks with wheels equipped with an engine. A number of safety rules evolved from that accident. I was there when Jack Brabham drove the first mid-engine car in the race. I was there when Jimmy Clark won the race in one. I was there when Jim Hurtubise tried to qualify the last roadster for the race. He didn’t make it. I think the race was a lot more exciting and interesting when there were thirty three cars representing a number of chassis and engine manufacturers instead of thirty three clones of a winner, but I still enjoy watching it.

From my perspective, it takes more than a pretty blond or movie star by your side to get in the race. You have to be able to handle a race-track bullet with speeds up to 230 miles per hour on a track with thirty two others trying to reach the same finish line, and the ‘guts’ to do it. So regardless of the qualification rules with which I firmly disagree, I will be watching the race and hopefully watch Danica take a drink of milk in the winner’s circle.

 

[RonStewart]

.... but it makes good business sense to the sponsors, without whom the entire sport would disappear back into the county fairgrounds from which it originated.

Which raises the question, "Would that be such a bad thing?"

 

I have attended five CART races in Vancouver, a Southern 500, a Daytona 500, three motorcycle Grand Prix weekends at Laguna Seca, and a World of Outlaws race. In addition, I have watched club racing of many sorts at six or seven local tracks over the years.

 

As a spectator, I have always found motorcycle racing (at the world or club level) to be the most fun and exciting. Among the car races I have seen live, the oval tracks give a better show because usually you can see the whole track. But again, I have had as much fun watching local racing as big-time stars.

 

On the topic at hand, Jim, the existing rules work contrary to the spirit of sport. I don't fault anybody for taking advantage of the rules, but the rules should be changed to make the sport better.

[baggerchris]

Money and power. The same then and now. (oh, and sex is in there too, but maybe just not in this particular discussion)

 

The CAR qualifies, and the driver is incidental according to the rules.

 

Change the rules so that the car AND the driver qualify or move along.

 

Indy is Indy and there is always some bone of contention going.

 

I've watched every Indy race since 1960 (or thereabouts) and I guess I won't stop now.

 

I'm glad Danica qualified her car and hope someone doesn't buy the car to out her. (just joking) I too would like to see her win.

 

 

 

 

[tallman]

Nonsense.

 

Free enterprise is a social/enconomic construct. IRL is a business. What happened is a function of that business' model. Within that model there are rules that have nothing whatsoever to do with free enterprise on a grander scale.

 

If you have a point to make or a bone to pick, this was a poor spot to choose.

 

Well, Sean got it right.

But you seem a bit sensitive, we will have to disagree about whether a "business" that operates for a profit or to provide a tax write off, or both, is part of the free enterprise/capitalism world.

This isn't the first time a racer has qualified and then drove another vehicle or a car qualified and then another driver took over.

Personally I find most of these races rather boring and choose not to watch.

Seemed better back in the day listening to it on the radio.

[Natche]

I used to work for a company that sponsored a Busch North car. I think it's called the Grand National Series now. Anyway, our driver ran that series and also ran the Featherlite Modified series. Those (Modifieds) races were the most fun to watch. Open wheel cars on short tracks, push drafting, and fast! That whole experience was much like going to a minor league baseball game, lower cost, closer to the action, more accessibility, and overall a better entertainment value. Once the $$ get too big it loses it's soul.

[Husker Red]

I've gone to my local tracks a couple times this last year and enjoyed it for the reasons you mention. Low cost, close to home and still good racing. The only downside is I'm often confused about the rules of the many different series running each night. I just need to go more often.

 

I do watch NASCAR and really enjoy that because I know enough about it to keep it interesting. Knowing the drivers personalities, car capabilities, crew chief's tendancies, owners style, etc make it enjoyable on several levels. I'm sure I'll watch the Indy 500 this weekend too.

[One]

Indy and Nascar are the most boring races out there. F1 is almost there too with all the rule changes and aids. ALMS has way too many handicaps for performers. Perhaps Rally is the only series I care about.

 

Rally rules!!!

[RonStewart]

Quite right, Husker. And since I have pretty much lost touch with Indycar, the 500 isn't as much fun for me as it once was.

 

At the 1996 Southern 500, I saw a situation developing that I had seen on tv several times in the previous weeks. I told my friend "Earnhardt will pass him right back, underneath," and seconds later, he did. My friend figured me for a motorsports genius at that moment. Therein lies the pleasure of following a racing series.