Sheriff tests RT-P and 4 others

[longjohn]

LA Sheriff's Dept tested the RT-P, Connie, ST 1300, Electra Glide, and Road King. The RT-P was the quietest and most fuel efficient and easiest to work on. The officers also praised the ergonomics of it. See the PDF here:

http://www.lasdhq.org/sites/motorcycle-test/2011.pdf

[Beemer_Nancy]

Isn't this May 2011? Why is the front page of the report dated Nov. 2011?

 

 

[longjohn]

^^^^. Haha I saw that too.

[Penforhire]

There is a thread on this report elsewhere. The date is the valid-until date. I got a kick out of poking my ST1300 riding buddy about how his ride is slower on the actual pursuit course, ha ha.

 

Seems like only our ABS behavior in sand, worse than others, was a bummer.

[motorman587]

This is my take on different brands of motorcycle and departments. First you will get what a supervisor wants and that is especially true when you are a slick sleeve, no rank. You can throw numbers at them all you want, but if there is brand loyalty chain of command, you are done. I was in the traffic unit for 16 years and rode 3 different types of motorcycle. Bottom line, they all cost money.

They all break and have to go to the shop.

 

For me the most important factor is not numbers, but service. Sure one can go fast, stop, shorter or is a little cooler, but if you need service, you want a dealer that takes care of motors. If numbers were so important, than why am I driving a Crown Vic.???

 

Also to me is the manufacturer's/dealers commitment to police. When Dusty Miller (Miller BMW) was alive (RIP my friend), he took care of me and the motor unit, but BMW corp never did. I remember, before Miller BMW opened I attempted to get a BMW demo for evaluation, I was told by the BMW rep. that they did not want to sell BMW to an agency that did have a local dealer. The reason was that if agency would to buy BMW motorcycle, with out the local dealer, something went wrong/broken, they did want want the agency to bad mouth BMW for the agency to have take the motorcycle out of town. So no demo bike for you!! How about that for ounce of confidence on ones product? Also BMW lost a 10 year contract with our agency when Miller BMW closed and the franchize was lost. There is someone willing to buy the franchize at this time, however BMW has taken them to court. I do not know details, but it is just sad. Honda is the same way, when you go local dealer and ask about Honda cops motorcycle, usually I have to explain, "Yes you do offer a police model", and guide the manager to the Honda web site.

 

Harley has impressed me the most. They listen to cops, have a local rep that goes to police rodeos and listens. Sure Harley's are not the perfect in stopping or accelerating,it is a different breed, but we all know that each motorcycle has capabilities and limitations and each rider must find that at training. So when they go patrolling that stay within that capabilities and limits. What impressed me the most was this past police rodeo here in town. I was bike less and wanted to ride. Again Honda was clueless, BMW never responded, but Harley's Florida rep, allowed me to take a brand new Electric Glide, compete and have a blast for three days.

 

It is just more than numbers. It depends who is in your command. It depends what manufacture supports LEO and it's loyalty towards LEO. If you do not have that support, than the slick sleeve is a sitting. Ask me how I know? And quite frankly, now that I have been out of the motor unit for a year and half, I would ride anything.

 

Last fact.........and I swear under oath. I rode a non-abs Harley for 5 years, same motorcycle. It brought me home everyday, with parts in the saddle, that rattled off during the shift, (just saying) but no crashes. I rode BMW for 10 years, 1100RTP, 1150RTP and the 1200RTP. Broke down twice where a tow truck was called and had 2 crashes. Just saying.

[DaveTheAffable]

Isn't this May 2011? Why is the front page of the report dated Nov. 2011?

 

 

Someone very close to this post has been involved in the annual LASD testing for 10 years.

 

Every year there is a show called "Cops West". It is a huge show in Ontario California that brings in Law Enforcement and Public Safety equipment and vehicles from across the country.

 

On the third day, attendees are invited to come see the testing and judging with their own eyes as it is conducted by not just LA County personell, but Officers from other agencies as well. They conduct testing of Cars, Motorcycles, SUV's, and even ATV's.

 

That's why it says Nov 2010... cause that's when the testing was done. Is it perfect? Nope. Comprehensive and pretty fair? Yup.

 

Links:

 

BMWST post re: LASD Testing 2008

 

Cops West 2011 - Including Vehicle Testing

[Natche]

This is my take on different brands of motorcycle and departments. First you will get what a supervisor wants and that is especially true when you are a slick sleeve, no rank. You can throw numbers at them all you want, but if there is brand loyalty chain of command, you are done. I was in the traffic unit for 16 years and rode 3 different types of motorcycle. Bottom line, they all cost money.

They all break and have to go to the shop.

 

For me the most important factor is not numbers, but service. Sure one can go fast, stop, shorter or is a little cooler, but if you need service, you want a dealer that takes care of motors. If numbers were so important, than why am I driving a Crown Vic.???

 

Also to me is the manufacturer's/dealers commitment to police. When Dusty Miller (Miller BMW) was alive (RIP my friend), he took care of me and the motor unit, but BMW corp never did. I remember, before Miller BMW opened I attempted to get a BMW demo for evaluation, I was told by the BMW rep. that they did not want to sell BMW to an agency that did have a local dealer. The reason was that if agency would to buy BMW motorcycle, with out the local dealer, something went wrong/broken, they did want want the agency to bad mouth BMW for the agency to have take the motorcycle out of town. So no demo bike for you!! How about that for ounce of confidence on ones product? Also BMW lost a 10 year contract with our agency when Miller BMW closed and the franchize was lost. There is someone willing to buy the franchize at this time, however BMW has taken them to court. I do not know details, but it is just sad. Honda is the same way, when you go local dealer and ask about Honda cops motorcycle, usually I have to explain, "Yes you do offer a police model", and guide the manager to the Honda web site.

 

Harley has impressed me the most. They listen to cops, have a local rep that goes to police rodeos and listens. Sure Harley's are not the perfect in stopping or accelerating,it is a different breed, but we all know that each motorcycle has capabilities and limitations and each rider must find that at training. So when they go patrolling that stay within that capabilities and limits. What impressed me the most was this past police rodeo here in town. I was bike less and wanted to ride. Again Honda was clueless, BMW never responded, but Harley's Florida rep, allowed me to take a brand new Electric Glide, compete and have a blast for three days.

 

It is just more than numbers. It depends who is in your command. It depends what manufacture supports LEO and it's loyalty towards LEO. If you do not have that support, than the slick sleeve is a sitting. Ask me how I know? And quite frankly, now that I have been out of the motor unit for a year and half, I would ride anything.

 

Last fact.........and I swear under oath. I rode a non-abs Harley for 5 years, same motorcycle. It brought me home everyday, with parts in the saddle, that rattled off during the shift, (just saying) but no crashes. I rode BMW for 10 years, 1100RTP, 1150RTP and the 1200RTP. Broke down twice where a tow truck was called and had 2 crashes. Just saying.

 

My first impression after reading the report was why wouldn't all PD's use the Beemer but this certainly sheds new light on it for me. I prefer the style/features/performance/etc. of my R12RT to a Harley but I still believe there are bonifide reason to own a Harley over the BMW if it fits your needs. Motorman makes a strong case. I own a BMW car also. I agree that BMW is very black and white on policies and if I didn't like their product so much I would never deal with them. It all comes from the German mentality. They don't want to provide what we want necessarily (e.g. cup holders in cars) they want us to embrace what they have.

[DaveTheAffable]

...I still believe there are bonifide reason to own a Harley over the BMW if it fits your needs. Motorman makes a strong case.

 

Agreed! And Motorman is quite knowledgeable.

 

L.A. County is simply saying, "On these days, we did these tests, and this is what we found." It is meant to be informational, not "We're right, you're wrong if you don't buy according to our test results."

 

L.A. County is the only agency in the country that still does vehicle testing in this manner, AND allows others to participate, AND publishes their results. Michigan used to be the "biggie" and they don't do it anymore.

 

As for the actual tests? Especially for the automotive testing, there are factory representatives and engineers from Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford and others who were on site days before and after watching carefully.

[Mister Tee]

I've heard other motor cops say that the Harley is the best street bike, and the BMW is the best freeway bike.

 

To me though, the real interesting outcome of the test is not Harley vs. BMW, as they have two different missions, but rather BMW vs. Kawasaki. At first I was a little surprised that the test riders were generally able to ride the RT around the test course faster than the C14, but thinking about it, those riders probably have tons of experience with RT's and Harleys and minimal experience with Kawi's. The Kawi was the fastest in acceleration and braking, but it doesn't take a lot of practice and familiarity to accelerate and brake in a straight line.

 

It will be interesting to see how future tests go, when the test riders have more experience on the C14.

[KDeline]

Last fact.........and I swear under oath. I rode a non-abs Harley for 5 years, same motorcycle. It brought me home everyday, with parts in the saddle, that rattled off during the shift, (just saying) but no crashes. I rode BMW for 10 years, 1100RTP, 1150RTP and the 1200RTP. Broke down twice where a tow truck was called and had 2 crashes. Just saying.

 

I don't know the details of the crashes but did you ride the Harley differently? Less aggressive because it is just not built for hard riding? I have only had a handful of Haleys pass me at high speed over many years, most of the time I can pass them easily doing the speed limit. They just don't seem to ride them very fast, even on the interstate.

[dasronin]

But, but, but... the breeches, calf high cavalry boots that lace at the area like shoes, and black & white half helmet look so "traditional" on the Harleys!

 

They don't look silly like the German Polizei in leathers and full face helmets on BMWs!

 

Also it is easier to ride a Harley within it's horsepower to weight ratio than a BMW RT-P. It is like a Nascar driver saying I have hit the walls more times with my race car than with the family minivan. Apples and Oranges!!!

[casticus]

Ahhh I believe your talking about risk homeostasis. I have had the pleasure of one on one conversations with a former CHP Commander who started their risk management department (internal). For the first few years after switching from Kawasaki bikes to RTs they had no fatalities and very few injury accidents in their motor division. Then as the troops got used to riding the BMWs they started pushing the bikes more and injuries and accidents became more common...

[ellaguru2u]

In the force (they call it service now) I worked there was one man who made the decision as to which bike/car got bought.

He mostly bought the best deal he could get with regard to purchase price & running costs which luckily enough meant we rode BMW.

Cars were another story, he had a penchant for Peugeot and, strangely enough, his personal car was a top of the line model that some say he got at a very silly price.

They gave up trying to buy British as by that time we no longer had a car industry.

I was getting off the BQE in Brooklyn recently and pulled up at the light next to a Harley. His riding buddies had made it through the light. Strangely enough, he started talking to me! To express his distaste with his manufacturer. We just got off the bumpiest most shit torn strip of the highway though...maybe he didn't know that you needed to stay in the left lane after the bridge to avoid all the potholes? And ultimately, that's why I got a BMW. Trust and comfort while I am on my bike outweighed trust and comfort while off. I would have LOVED a Harley...guess I'm just a BMW guy

[motorman587]

Last fact.........and I swear under oath. I rode a non-abs Harley for 5 years, same motorcycle. It brought me home everyday, with parts in the saddle, that rattled off during the shift, (just saying) but no crashes. I rode BMW for 10 years, 1100RTP, 1150RTP and the 1200RTP. Broke down twice where a tow truck was called and had 2 crashes. Just saying.

 

I don't know the details of the crashes but did you ride the Harley differently? Less aggressive because it is just not built for hard riding? I have only had a handful of Haleys pass me at high speed over many years, most of the time I can pass them easily doing the speed limit. They just don't seem to ride them very fast, even on the interstate.

 

Less aggressive than the Harley, no, both were low speed vehicle made a left turn in front of me. Could be I was getting older. Have no explanation.

[Tapatio]

Michigan used to be the "biggie" and they don't do it anymore.

 

Here is Michigan's 2011 report. HD Elecrtra Glide, HD Road King, BMW RTP, Kawasaki Concours.

 

2011 Michigan Police Motorcycle Evaluation

 

Link to all test

[1LIFE2LIVE]

Interesting... I'll take the RT then the Concours

[DaveTheAffable]

Michigan used to be the "biggie" and they don't do it anymore.

 

Here is Michigan's 2011 report. HD Elecrtra Glide, HD Road King, BMW RTP, Kawasaki Concours.

 

2011 Michigan Police Motorcycle Evaluation

 

Link to all test

 

Ohh... my bad! I had bad info. Thanks for correcting AND supplying the links!

[RTJohn]

Hey Mr. Tee. I was chatting with a motor officer at Irv Seaver's recently. I asked him how he liked his RT. He paused for a second, and said he was a longtime HD rider and had 4 of them in his garage. But he thought the RT was the best bike he'd ever ridden. Quit an endorsement.

[Mister Tee]

Hey Mr. Tee. I was chatting with a motor officer at Irv Seaver's recently. I asked him how he liked his RT. He paused for a second, and said he was a longtime HD rider and had 4 of them in his garage. But he thought the RT was the best bike he'd ever ridden. Quit an endorsement.

 

That's the general consensus of the motor cops I know.

[ryan_a1982]

Sideline...I was in downtown sacramento Sunday. I was going across a cross-walk and a CHP officer was coming towards me on a moto. I thought "wow, that is a wide rear-end". I stopped and waited for him to get to the limit line and I looked at the bike and asked if it was the new Kawi, he said it was.

 

Hmmmm. it looked nice, but those bags are wide!!!

[Mister Tee]

Sideline...I was in downtown sacramento Sunday. I was going across a cross-walk and a CHP officer was coming towards me on a moto. I thought "wow, that is a wide rear-end". I stopped and waited for him to get to the limit line and I looked at the bike and asked if it was the new Kawi, he said it was.

 

Hmmmm. it looked nice, but those bags are wide!!!

 

Yes, I've seen him a few times on the freeway when I've been in the area. Those bags are exactly what is on the stock C14 - but it's not the bags that are the limiting factor in width, it's the mirrors. The bags are actually not really any wider than on an RT, they just look that way.

[Sweendog]

... The bags are actually not really any wider than on an RT, they just look that way.

 

Kawasaki: "I'm not fat, I'm just big boned!"

 

[Mister Tee]

Haters!!

[BailyD]

+1 John.....Here I sit, my RTP still broken down after six weeks. Siren went bad $650!!!! RU KIDDING ME! That's just for the siren, not including labor to install!! Dept is taking forever because we are short handed and it's a 100 trip ONE WAY....It should be back for 20 degree January weather!