How unsafe is a modular helmet?

[AdirondackJack]

This question came up recently with a group of my BMW motorcycle riding buddies:

 

"Exactly how safe is a modular helmet like (for example) the new Schuberth C3?"

 

One of my buddies (a lawyer for, and a competitive driver in both the car and motorcycle racing industry) contends that any helmet which is sold to you in two, distinct pieces will surely come apart into those two pieces in the event of a crash. Now, I know that Schuberth makes high end helmets for more areas of industry than motorcycling and is considered to be very good at what they do. Further, the C3 has supposedly passed extremely rigorous testing and been certified with the highest awards available in the european union, and has at least DOT cert., and may even have Snell Foundation approval..

 

Does this mean that because the C3 is modular, that it is necessarily not as safe as a regular full face helmet like an Arai?

 

What's the concensus, and does anyone have any real hard data to back up their position? Anecdotal evidence is good too. OK guys, let her rip!

Dave R.

[pokorskij]

That is why your buddy is a lawyer not an engineer.

[Paul Mihalka]

For the last ten years or so I wear successive Nolan flip-up helmets, so I try to catch anything related to them. In all these years I have not seen one report where a flip-up in a accident opened up or did anything a full-face would not have done. We know the internet. If one would have failed it would be all over the boards.

[bmurphypdx]

I am both an engineer and a lawyer and I've worn Nolan modular helmets for over five years. Like was said above, I've not heard of a single incident where a modular failed to provide full protection. The worst I've heard is "one can imagine . . ." I can imagine a unicorn, doesn't mean it exists.

[marcopolo]

I stand to be corrected, but I don't know of any flip-up helmets that have met the Snell standard for the simple reason that no manufacturer has submitted them to Snell for testing/certification. Has that changed?

 

Among me three helmets is a Shark Evoline Series 2 flip-up. It is certified as meeting DOT and ECE 22-05 standards, but not Snell.

 

Any of these standards are minimum requirements. Helmets can exceed them, but how do you know? The only testing scheme I'm aware of is the UK's SHARP rating system which, as I understand it, is designed the determine how well any helmet -- meeting these minimum mandated standards -- performs in their testing. They rate helmets on a scale of one to five stars. There are some interesting results on their website.

[frankiep]

Take a look at this:

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Helmets.html#Helmets

 

Read the latter part. He talks about how the hinge mechanism can cause injury.

[bmurphypdx]

Here is the key phrase from his article "I believe . . ."

Well, isn't that dandy! Maybe he believes in unicorns too! Show me the data!!!!!

[Whip]

No track day or track riding school, or AMA event, or WERA event will allow modular helmets on the track. I guess they have a reason.

 

 

I don't wear em cause I like to take my helmet off every time I stop. The 2 seconds it saves are not worth the feeling of airing out my hot head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JOHNNYWISHBONE]

i want the schuberth because of the lessened weight and overall size. also their bluetooth. i also wear the recalled acc carbon helmets. very comfortable. unmatched visibility. dressing like a spaceman won't save you in a bad crash.

[MT Wallet]

I've got one-some off brand DOT certifed. It was in the deal on one of my bikes. I like it for my glasses. My full face makes wearing glasses a chore. Glasses off, helmet on, glasses on, shield down-----sounds like a star trek firing command. I have noticed the European Poleizi seem to be wearing them-in pictures I've seen. I like being able to open it up if I want to ride with more air and vision.

[DavidEBSmith]

I do know someone who suffered a serious brain injury from the mechanism in a modular helmet - might be the same person described in the calsci.com piece. It is a remarkably bad helmet design to have hard things that can be driven into your head on impact. So if you're going to worry about modular helmet safety from the mechanism, you should probably also worry about the Bluetooth receiver built into the helmet, the earphones and microphone boom, the video camera that's attached, and the the drop-down sun visor mechanism.

 

I'll also point out that there are Snell certified open face helmets. Are those "less safe" than Snell certified full face helmets? DOT-compliant full face helmets?

 

And for what it's worth, I've seen a full-face helmet where the chin bar collapsed on impact and injured the rider.

[John Bentall]

One of my buddies (a lawyer for, and a competitive driver in both the car and motorcycle racing industry) contends that any helmet which is sold to you in two, distinct pieces will surely come apart into those two pieces in the event of a crash.

 

What I will object to in the strongest possible terms in the use of the word "surely".

In the course of testing a number of identical helmets in the lab in order to certifiy them, sometimes the latch of the jaw mechanism will release. The SHARP tests (website down as I write this so I can't verify) and others will note this effect.

 

It might well be that for every 10 crashes that I have in my helmet the jaw latch might release once. I am happy to take that risk for the added convenience of the modular helmet injuries.

 

The SHARP test show that is many cases the inexpensive helmets perform just as well as some of the more expensive ones in the impacts tests and indeed exceed the prescribed standards. (This is according to a German magazine that has tested modular helmets in the Rhineland TUV test center this month). What you are paying for in the more expensive helmets is more comfortable lining material; more adjustability via cheek pads etc.; better ventilation, more easily operated chin-bar release buttons and metal - not plastic - latches; visors that are better optically, less prone to mist up, and so on.

 

I live in Europe and have easy access to BMW helmets made by Schuberth - I wear that brand without a second thought. Both my kids wear modular helmets when they ride pillion with me.

 

A final thought - if racers wear one piece leathers because they are the safest option, then why do we not have discussions about whether touring riders should all be wearing such clothing....and how about airbag jackets as well......

 

If I said that I was about to go on a motorcycle control skills day (I have already had an assessment ride with a UK LEO this year), then you would understand that I am far more concerned about having the training to avoid an accident in the first place, rather than worrying about the crash integrity of my modular helmet.

 

John

 

[Rocer]

No track day or track riding school, or AMA event, or WERA event will allow modular helmets on the track. I guess they have a reason.

 

Whip, can you comment on requirements on European tracks? Do they recognize Snell or just the European standard?

[Linz]

No modulars allowed at track days in Australia either.

 

Linz

[tallman]

i want the schuberth because of the lessened weight and overall size. also their bluetooth. i also wear the recalled acc carbon helmets. very comfortable. unmatched visibility. dressing like a spaceman won't save you in a bad crash.

 

Are you kidding?

Personal evidence, anecdotal evidence, data from rider safety and crash reports, etc. etc.

 

Now if we really want to look at data then start looking at lower leg injuries in motorcycle crash reports.

 

The majority of riders leave this vulnerable area woefully underprotected.

 

 

I wear a modular and have seen many helmets after a crash.

We've sold hundreds of modualr helmets. Haven't seen one fail but that really doesn't mean anything.

 

 

[Sweendog]

I think you'll have to find some scientific test results to really get the answer to your question. Anecdotal evidence will abound, and I'm sure the mileage may vary...

 

Regardless, I'm equally sure that modular helmets are a LOT safer than no helmet.

 

For the opinion part of my post, I'd say if you're going fast enough to drive the hinge into your skull, you were going to be badly damaged anyway. ;-)

[RRrider44]

Here is some relevant data...including a snell approved modular...apparently the first in 2009.

 

^ "Zeus ZS3000 Review". WebBikeWorld (webWorld International). 2009.

^ "Why won't Snell certify some types of helmets like flip up front designs?". FAQs about Snell and Helmets. Snell Memorial Foundation. Retrieved 19 September 2008.

 

These are footnotes from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_helmet#cite_note-WebBikeWorld1-4

[AviP]

IMHO, the locking mechanism in a flip-up helmet is relatively small and has the potential to break open under impact. If the rider still hasn't come to rest, the potential for further damage exists.

 

I do not have personal experience, but I base this on common sense.

 

OTOH, the number of riders with open face helmets seems way more than those with modular helmets. So that's probably a bigger issue.

[Skywagon]

No helmet expert, but when I took a nasty spill in 2009 on the US 29 Dragon, my Shoei Multitec which was 2 weeks old, took one hell of a beating, including sliding across the face shield. It did not open until I reached down and pushed the red button. It functioned as it should and I bought another one.

 

So there may be rumor of them popping open, but I know one case where it didn't.

[racer7]

Seen a lot of helmets after track hits and street crashes- both cars and bikes. So far, only seen a single full face with a cracked chin bar- it caused no driver injury and in fact, despite the crack, kept the driver from what would surely have been a fractured jaw otherwise.

 

My own choice remains a Shoei full face for the bike. Got a Nolan 103 but haven't found that the alleged convenience of the flip up offsets the other shortcomings of that helmet (which for me are 1) too noisy 2) poor sunshade and 3) marginal bluetooth design. Worrying about the hinge hasn't been part of it.

[Whip]

No track day or track riding school, or AMA event, or WERA event will allow modular helmets on the track. I guess they have a reason.

 

Whip, can you comment on requirements on European tracks? Do they recognize Snell or just the European standard?

 

Sorry...I shoulda said US track days and riding schools.

 

I know less about European tracks than I do women.

 

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

"So there may be rumor of them popping open, but I know one case where it didn't."

 

I didn't even heard a rumor of one popping open, just opinions that they might.

[AZRTRDR]

2010 I had a 65mph get-off. High sided and woke up in the hospital after a helicopter ride.

I had a small brain bled at the base of my somewhat small brain that had stopped bleeding by the next day.

Shoei Multitech was split vertically in the back from the neck opening up about 4".

The liner material was slightly protruding from the split and there were marks all over the helmet from my body rolling.

Never came open.

I have another.

I also had on a BMW Airshell jacket, BMW City pants and an old pair of BMW touring boots. Not 0ne scratch.

So much for the "jacket melting onto the skin" theory as far as I am concerned.

[AdirondackJack]

Please keep up the interesting and informative dialogue. Frankly, I am returning to my computer every so often to read another informative edition of this thread. I'm not saying this because I started this thread, but because this has (so far) been one of the most interesting threads I have ever participated in. Play on. . . . . .

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

No track day or track riding school, or AMA event, or WERA event will allow modular helmets on the track. I guess they have a reason.

 

 

I don't wear em cause I like to take my helmet off every time I stop. The 2 seconds it saves are not worth the feeling of airing out my hot head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's because they're not SNELL rated.

 

...and I'll just add, for the sake of stirring the pot, that SNELL "adjusted" their requirements recently because the helmets that met their standards were actually "too hard"... (quotes are my paraphrasing)

 

[OlGeezer]

I've got one-some off brand DOT certifed. It was in the deal on one of my bikes. I like it for my glasses. My full face makes wearing glasses a chore. Glasses off, helmet on, glasses on, shield down-----sounds like a star trek firing command. I have noticed the European Poleizi seem to be wearing them-in pictures I've seen. I like being able to open it up if I want to ride with more air and vision.

 

Not only is it a chore with glasses, but there is also the likelhood (DAMHIK) of losing said glasses due to one forgetting to put them on after the helmet is on.

 

Also, "I believe" the flip ups are rated only as a 3/4 helmet, not a FF helmet.

 

A fact: I recently observed my friend's Nolan rolling off the seat of his parked bike onto the pavement. Upon impact, the two pieces separated. So, based on the "data" I have acquired, yes, "I believe" I can "imagine" a similar incident occurring in a moto accident. O.K., let a lawyer parse that statement.

 

I'm still not giving up my flip up. Glasses are expensive (DAMHIK).

 

 

[John]

No modulars allowed at track days in Australia either.

 

Linz

 

Linz, that is not correct. I've been participating at track days and rider training in Oz for the last 20 years - always wearing a modular helmet.

 

Providing the helmet is full face and AS1698 compliant, it's good to go

[AdirondackJack]

Now that's what I'm talking about! Didn't know that. . . . .

[Whip]

No track day or track riding school, or AMA event, or WERA event will allow modular helmets on the track. I guess they have a reason.

 

 

I don't wear em cause I like to take my helmet off every time I stop. The 2 seconds it saves are not worth the feeling of airing out my hot head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's because they're not SNELL rated.

 

...and I'll just add, for the sake of stirring the pot, that SNELL "adjusted" their requirements recently because the helmets that met their standards were actually "too hard"... (quotes are my paraphrasing)

 

I think that is accurate.

[elkroeger]

...And for what it's worth, I've seen a full-face helmet where the chin bar collapsed on impact and injured the rider.

 

This reminds me of the old argument that the steel toes in work boots will collapse and pinch off your toes. If you drop a Mack truck on your toes, and your steel toe boots fail, you're gonna be short a few toes regardless of whether you're wearing steel toes or house slippers. Drop something a little more reasonable, like a refrgirator, and those steel toes save the day.

 

I'll argue that, even though the rider was "injured" when the helmet failed, the helmet was not the cause of the injury. Where would he be without that chin bar? Probably a lot worse off. Ymmv.

[DavidEBSmith]

I'll argue that, even though the rider was "injured" when the helmet failed, the helmet was not the cause of the injury. Where would he be without that chin bar? Probably a lot worse off. Ymmv.

 

Well, since this thread is full of wild-a** speculation with no data behind it, I can imagine a crash with an impact on the side of the helmet in which the chin bar fails and folds into the rider's face, where an open-face helmet wouldn't have the chin bar to collapse and poke the rider in the face.

 

I suspect that any helmet, hit with enough force, will break. I suspect that when it breaks, it can do unpredictable things. I suspect most of the anecdotal stories about injuries from helmets are one-offs that are statistically highly unlikely. I suspect there's not really enough data on helmet failures to make an informed decision one way or another.

 

It's a cost-benefit analysis. There is an unpredictable and possibly unquantifiable (but certainly small enough not to be glaringly obvious) risk in wearing a modular helmet. There is arguably a benefit to it, although different people give that benefit different weights. Bottom line is, are you comfortable with the unknown risk?

[AZRTRDR]

I believe that since modular helmets are not sanctioned for track style competition, the helmet manufactures are not inclined to spend the money and submit several modular helmets for Snell certification.

And why should they? The manufacturers make FF helmets for competition.

This is not the same as saying that all modular helmets would fail the Snell tests.

[Indy Dave]

 

It's a cost-benefit analysis. There is an unpredictable and possibly unquantifiable (but certainly small enough not to be glaringly obvious) risk in wearing a modular helmet. There is arguably a benefit to it, although different people give that benefit different weights. Bottom line is, are you comfortable with the unknown risk?

 

NAILED IT!

 

As I read this thread, it's apparent that those who have found the convenience of modular helmets are not keen on going back to the dark ages of one-piece helmets. And they are happy to list why - but none of the reasons listed so far are safety/injury focused. This is fine - to each his own. I'm just pointing out that the reasons listed so far for continuing to wear a modular head protector have been about convenience, which is not the primary purpose of choosing a helmet and could possibly (I hope not) become a regrettable compromise which at the time of purchase seemed like reasonable risk acceptance. (How many beanie helmet riders have regretted their compromise after the fact? I'm not equating modulars with beanie helmets, but maybe the justification process is similar).

 

I've heard and been tempted by the sweet song of modular helmets. I have friends who choose to ride with them. I believe that the SHARP system does have some 5 star rated modular helmets (the site is still off line). Basing my decision on solely on protecting my noggin, I'm not yet ready to move away from a one piece full face helmet. But the bells and whistles of modulars certainly have an attractiveness to them.

 

Also, not sure if anyone read the webbikeworld article posted previously about the Snell rated Zeus ZS 3000 modular helmet and it's Snall rating, but there was an update to the article (about half way though the article) which states:

 

UPDATE: July 11, 2009 - Note that we have just been informed by Zeus that due to an unspecified issue, at this time the Snell approved helmets are available in very limited quantities by special order only. Zeus said that a small number of Snell approved ZS-3000 helmets will be shipped to the U.S.A. possibly in September of 2009. In the meantime, all other Zeus helmets sold in the U.S. will meet DOT safety standards only.

 

However, checking the Zeus website, they still list their helmets as being the first to meet Snell standards, so the problem mush have been resolved? Zeus helmets

 

Here's another insightful article on helmet testing and statistics for those that missed it when it was making the rounds. It addresses Snell, DOT and EU standards and various other elements and it is quite enlightening.

 

blowing the lid off

[malcolmblalock]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but felt compelled to comment on a conversation overheard at a local motorcycle dealership (not BMW). A customer was looking at helmets and said as he looked at one "you know, you're actually safer without a helmet! They get caught on things and break necks. And we're required here in NC to wear one..." The salesman actually agreed!

 

I'm amazed at some people's ignorance...

 

I've had a Nolan, a Shoei Multitec, and just purchased a Schuberth c3. I've also owned one full-face helmet. Yes it's a convenience to wear open face, and I'll take my chances in not having it open. A modular is better than none, in spite of what some people think.

[RockBottom]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but felt compelled to comment on a conversation overheard at a local motorcycle dealership (not BMW). A customer was looking at helmets and said as he looked at one "you know, you're actually safer without a helmet! They get caught on things and break necks. And we're required here in NC to wear one..." The salesman actually agreed!

 

I'm amazed at some people's ignorance...

 

 

My favorite dumb excuses I've heard lately are:

 

--I ride really fast so if I wreck I'm going to die anyway so there's no reason to wear a helmet

--Helmets increases the chances of living but with a brain injury and I'd rather just die.

[TEDZ]

No one has mentioned which kind of oil and want brand of tires to use with their modular helmet. Let's go for the trifecta.

[OoPEZoO]

No one has mentioned which kind of oil and want brand of tires to use with their modular helmet. Let's go for the trifecta.

 

I prefer light brown oil and the round black tires

[Skywagon]

Come to Texas in July and August when it is 100+ and 95+ humidity. Wearing atgatt can create heat stroke...which by the way I do wear atgatt. Raising the lid at stop lights etc to keep my face from melting is not convenience, but necessity.

 

When there is statistically relevent information it is less safe, I will reconsider; until then..someone send us some Artic Air..it is already in the low 90's here.....in April

[DiggerJim]

This reminds me of the old argument that the steel toes in work boots will collapse and pinch off your toes. If you drop a Mack truck on your toes, and your steel toe boots fail, you're gonna be short a few toes regardless of whether you're wearing steel toes or house slippers. Drop something a little more reasonable, like a refrgirator, and those steel toes save the day.

 

I'll argue that, even though the rider was "injured" when the helmet failed, the helmet was not the cause of the injury. Where would he be without that chin bar? Probably a lot worse off. Ymmv.

Yep, same kind of situation when I was riding ambulances. Every once in awhile (real long while) we'd get someone who was wearing a seatbelt & was hurt (not the sore kind of "get over it" kind of hurt - non-trivial injury type hurt). We'd hear the occasional, "probably wouldn't have gotten hurt if he wasn't wearing a seatbelt" at which point our response was "yep, that's right, doesn't hurt when you're dead!". Picked way more dead people off the pavement who weren't wearing belts then I ever picked up who were hurt with them. Used to be a morbid regret that seatbelts & airbags were responsible for taking all the fun out of being on an ambulance crew.

 

As a sideline, we did prefer motorcyclists with modular helmets - we could flip the lid without moving the head or potentially compromising the spine to do our initial assessment. It's way better to be able to look at the patient's head, check for airway, bleeding, etc. than to be guessing. If they were breathing and not gushing we left the helmet on.

[outpost22]

I wear both modular and solid full face helmets. Two years ago I "head dabbed" face first into the asphalt with a Nolan N102 modular. There was no issue with the latch opening and the helmet did its job perfectly.

 

After the accident, I took a splitting maul and beat the living crud out of that helmet and could not get it to pop open or even damage the shell. We're talking full force blows with a sharp edged maul as well as the blunt side smashing it like a sledge hammer. I could not even get a crease in the outer shell.

 

Finally, I cut it in half with a Sawsall to make sure no kid found the helmet later and tried to wear it.

 

I have a new found respect for the strength of these helmets and still wear a modular today for most rides.

[Fubar]

Come to Texas in July and August when it is 100+ and 95+ humidity. Wearing atgatt can create heat stroke...which by the way I do wear atgatt. Raising the lid at stop lights etc to keep my face from melting is not convenience, but necessity.

 

It was 94F and 85%+ today as I rode around doing errands. Full face (my choice/preference). At stoplights, I raise the shield some if things get too sweaty then put it right back down on green. Gloves, jacket, blue jeans, boots all stay on even when it gets hot.

I understand the allure of the modulars. They can be as safe or unsafe as any other helmet depending on how they are engineered. But even bubblewrap is better than no helmet. Wear what you like, but pick a safe one. Use DOT, Snell and SHARP to help you. Make sure it fits and, like the old credit card commercial, don't leave home without it.

 

And +1 to Angel

 

Sharp is still down. Per the website redirect: "There is a problem with the server. We hope to be back online by the weekend. We are sorry for the inconvenience this may cause."

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

[KDeline]

A fact: I recently observed my friend's Nolan rolling off the seat of his parked bike onto the pavement. Upon impact, the two pieces separated. So, based on the "data" I have acquired, yes, "I believe" I can "imagine" a similar incident occurring in a moto accident. O.K., let a lawyer parse that statement.

 

 

 

 

Was the helmet open when it fell? My wife crashed with an HJC at 65 nph, saved her pretty head and never came open.

[EricJRW]

A fact: I recently observed my friend's Nolan rolling off the seat of his parked bike onto the pavement. Upon impact, the two pieces separated. So, based on the "data" I have acquired, yes, "I believe" I can "imagine" a similar incident occurring in a moto accident. O.K., let a lawyer parse that statement.

Was the helmet open when it fell? My wife crashed with an HJC at 65 nph, saved her pretty head and never came open.

That's what I was thinking too.

 

But what I'm curious about is that if Snell has such altruistic motivations, why don't they just test other helmets, i.e. the modulars, without being asked? Consumer Reports goes out and buys stuff to test.

 

I see the hidden agenda of companies not wanting to have helmets tested that they know will fail, but is it right for us to assume that a helmet will fail? I'd like to know for sure. I think Snell should go and buy helmets and publish the results of their tests. Getting paid by companies who do there own tests, then pay Snell to repeat the test for a sticker only seems a tad better than the DOT method.

 

That being said I currently do use a Nolan N100E. My complaint is that it is noisy and I would like Bluetooth. I do like the convenience of being able to ventilate (I too live in Texas). I did not know there was so much to think about when choosing a helmet. But being older I realize I need to be more aware and drive much more cautiously. However the idea of having my temple crushed does not sound fun. I'll be taking all this into consider at helmet buying time.

 

My wife where's a Shoei RF-900 (which she liked for the weight and is full-face) and it is Snell, so I feel good about that.

 

Thanks for this thread. It's very interesting.

[tallman]

And just to rain on your parade, the SNELL rating is/was considered, by some, including Dr. Hurt, to be inappropriate.

The secondary impact requirement could mean transfer of energy to the wearer's brain.

I believe SNELL is/has revising(ed) standard but all of the previous helmets that passed would possibly carry this potential liability to the wearer.

Just something to consider.

YMMV.

Best wishes.

 

[Chip]

 

It's a cost-benefit analysis. There is an unpredictable and possibly unquantifiable (but certainly small enough not to be glaringly obvious) risk in wearing a modular helmet. There is arguably a benefit to it, although different people give that benefit different weights. Bottom line is, are you comfortable with the unknown risk?

 

NAILED IT!

 

As I read this thread, it's apparent that those who have found the convenience of modular helmets are not keen on going back to the dark ages of one-piece helmets. And they are happy to list why - but none of the reasons listed so far are safety/injury focused. This is fine - to each his own. I'm just pointing out that the reasons listed so far for continuing to wear a modular head protector have been about convenience, which is not the primary purpose of choosing a helmet and could possibly (I hope not) become a regrettable compromise which at the time of purchase seemed like reasonable risk acceptance. (How many beanie helmet riders have regretted their compromise after the fact? I'm not equating modulars with beanie helmets, but maybe the justification process is similar).

 

I've heard and been tempted by the sweet song of modular helmets. I have friends who choose to ride with them. I believe that the SHARP system does have some 5 star rated modular helmets (the site is still off line). Basing my decision on solely on protecting my noggin, I'm not yet ready to move away from a one piece full face helmet. But the bells and whistles of modulars certainly have an attractiveness to them.

 

Also, not sure if anyone read the webbikeworld article posted previously about the Snell rated Zeus ZS 3000 modular helmet and it's Snall rating, but there was an update to the article (about half way though the article) which states:

 

UPDATE: July 11, 2009 - Note that we have just been informed by Zeus that due to an unspecified issue, at this time the Snell approved helmets are available in very limited quantities by special order only. Zeus said that a small number of Snell approved ZS-3000 helmets will be shipped to the U.S.A. possibly in September of 2009. In the meantime, all other Zeus helmets sold in the U.S. will meet DOT safety standards only.

 

However, checking the Zeus website, they still list their helmets as being the first to meet Snell standards, so the problem mush have been resolved? Zeus helmets

 

Here's another insightful article on helmet testing and statistics for those that missed it when it was making the rounds. It addresses Snell, DOT and EU standards and various other elements and it is quite enlightening.

 

blowing the lid off

 

 

Methinks folks are not arguing for their use of modular helmets for the convenience. Methinks they're arguing for their use of modular helmets because they are less inconvenient than a single piece helmet...a subtle but significant difference.

 

After all, putting on a helmet is not as convenient as not wearing one at all. However, wearing a helmet in a crash/get off/fall over/road debris attack is safer, and therefore worth the inconvenience for many riders.

 

Me. I'm lazy and cheap. I wear a modular helmet because it's less inconvenient than a single piece helmet and I don't want to buy new teeth in case of an accident.

 

Of course, if I were to want to get on a track, I'd have to break out the old single piece.

 

Good thread.

[AdirondackJack]

I love it when a plan comes together! The longer this thread goes, the more I learn. (don't mind me. . . . continue on. . . . .)

[frankiep]

Have you guys seen the new tests from SHARP? They tested the Multitech and it got 3/5 stars. The faceguard remained latcher 85% of the time and in the impact tests the temples were rated poor in the impact tests.

 

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/shoei-multitech

 

The Schuberth C3 was worse:

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/schuberth-c3

 

The Nolan N103 faired better:

http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/nolan-n103

[kinchy]

Egg head here. If it isn't Arai it won't fit my gord

[dasronin]

I have worn a full face helmet since 1970. Paid a crazy price for a Bell Star 120 (couple hundred 1970s dollars!) and it was not until HJC offered a flip up did I change from a Shoei full face on the BMWs. Then upgraded to a Shoei flip up and coveted a Schuberth but A. could not find one when I had the money or B. found one and was broke. Then they dried up for a few years.

 

I just ordered a Schuberth C3 for myself as an early birthday present. I think the "Oh My God the thing will open up in a crash!" is an unrealistic worry. Could it happen, possibly. Could the chin piece on my Shoei full face fracture... sure.

 

Bottom line. If you do not think flips ups are safe enough. Don't by one. If mine fails you have all right to say "I told you so!"

 

My only question is, does anyone know where I can buy silver colored flip-flops that color match my new C3?

[Indy Dave]

 

I just ordered a Schuberth C3 for myself as an early birthday present. I think the "Oh My God the thing will open up in a crash!" is an unrealistic worry. Could it happen, possibly. Could the chin piece on my Shoei full face fracture... sure.

 

Bottom line. If you do not think flips ups are safe enough. Don't by one. If mine fails you have all right to say "I told you so!"

 

My only question is, does anyone know where I can buy silver colored flip-flops that color match my new C3?

 

I think the bigger concern is the side impact issues that seem to deal with the hinging area of modulars - have a look at the web sites cited. Again, make your own decision - even some FF helmets have issues on the sides.