United Airlines Flight 497 April 5th

[Skywagon]

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/transcript_of_pilot_tower_conv.html#cmpid=v2mode_be_smoref_face

 

Click the radio link and have a listen

[chrisd]

Wow. All parties so incredibly calm and professional.

 

[Kathy R]

Love that "Souls on board".

[TestPilot]

Love that "Souls on board".

 

I'm not sure when the term first came into use, but it's pretty standard in the industry now.

[John Ranalletta]

Since airliners often carry cadavers as when my mother's body was flown home for burial. Isn't this phrasing used to distinguish how many live bodies are on board vs. the total number of human bodies?

[ghaverkamp]

Since airliners often carry cadavers as when my mother's body was flown home for burial. Isn't this phrasing used to distinguish how many live bodies are on board vs. the total number of human bodies?

 

Unlikely, given its nautical origins. I don't imagine these 19th century texts were worried about accounting for status on the ocean floor.

[Natche]

Very interesting. I would guess it's more the rule in terms of conduct in a crisis situation. I'm sure it's all training and experience. If you train for this you know what to do when it happens.

 

This makes me laugh about how Hollywood portrays military pilots. I guess they do it to make it more exciting but I think it would be more interesting to portray them more accurately - as the professionals they are, not a bunch of whooping and whistling egomaniacs. They bill themselves as so creative but for the most part I think all they (Hollywood) do is copy what has worked for someone else. Sorry for the digression off topic.

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

This makes me laugh about how Hollywood portrays military pilots. I guess they do it to make it more exciting but I think it would be more interesting to portray them more accurately - as the professionals they are, not a bunch of whooping and whistling egomaniacs.

 

I've seen a number of documentaries, and yes, fighter pilots seem much more subdued during casual conversation than what is portrayed by Hollywood, and during in-flight emergencies they seem to show the same kind of cool that was demonstrated in the OP's audio recording (see for example

). I've seen a few videos of ACM training, but I don't recall seeing many videos of live-fire ACM against real enemy pilots. There was

in which the US aircrews were a bit excitable (and it wasn't so much about getting flustered/panicky as it was about making things happen quickly), but then again they were dealing with an active hostile agent, rather than simple mechanical trouble, so a little tension is understandable.

[UberXY]

And here is what happens when a total asshole flies a plane:

Beach Landing/NY

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

And here is what happens when a total asshole flies a plane:

Beach Landing/NY

 

Interesting. Here's an article that helps better explain what was going on.

 

I'm not a pilot, but I'll wager a barfing passenger isn't an emergency, even if said passenger is unloading directly on the floor of the cockpit.

[Skywagon]

Any time you declare an emergency souls on board and fuel on board are standard questions. In the event of an accident they want to make sure they have accounted for all. The fuel on board also helps determine the nature of the response equipment required to deal with it.

 

Emergency for tossing cookies...Not likely. I have had it happen many times. Emergency is pilot discretion. It gives the pilot the authority, once declared, to break any rules necessary to deal with the emergency. However if you do break a rule, you better darn well have had an emergency that required you to bend the rules as you did.

 

The FAA gives completed latitude to the pilot during an emergency. If you abuse it you will pay for it big time. Guarantee this guy will lose his certificate for some time and he will receive a bill for the emergency response team. He may additionally receive a fine from the local agency for whatever local laws there are prohibiting landing on the beach.

 

Bad behavior usually isn't cured and will eventually result in this guy having an accident. Almost guaranteed!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

24 yo kid with his own Warrior?

What was the emergency, have to hold her hair while she puked?

 

Should have his ticket pulled for life and have to pay for all the response stuff, including recovery of the plane.

 

Just hope, when he has the inevitable fatal accident, that he is the only fatality/injury.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

24 yo kid with his own Warrior?

 

Wow, I didn't notice he was 24. Given that actuarial data supports sky-high car insurance rates for drivers under 25, I wonder about the wisdom of letting people under 25 pilot planes.

[Agent_Orange]

" Almost guaranteed!" Nope.

 

 

Guaranteed!

[David]

I've only declared an emergency once. I was on the climbout during a day with dense overhead clouds that were very thick. Inside the clouds, I lost an engine. The bad thing is that the airplane only had one of them, too.

 

I declared an emergency, tried to restart the engine, punched the airport I'd just left into the GPS, and landed safely. But after declaring an emergency, they cleared all other traffic far away from me, put other landings on hold, put the crash trucks on the runway I would use, and had an FAA inspector onsite. He interviewed me right then and there, and I can guarantee you that if I hadn't had the right answers, I would have lost my ticket for awhile.

[Twisties]

I've only declared an emergency once. I was on the climbout during a day with dense overhead clouds that were very thick. Inside the clouds, I lost an engine. The bad thing is that the airplane only had one of them, too.

 

I declared an emergency, tried to restart the engine, punched the airport I'd just left into the GPS, and landed safely. But after declaring an emergency, they cleared all other traffic far away from me, put other landings on hold, put the crash trucks on the runway I would use, and had an FAA inspector onsite. He interviewed me right then and there, and I can guarantee you that if I hadn't had the right answers, I would have lost my ticket for awhile.

 

I lost my glasses in deep snow once. Was a b**** but I finally found them. I'd hate to lose an engine in a cloud. Did you ever find it?

[AviP]

The only time I declared an emergency was in my head when I tried to land at an uncontrolled field. I mistakenly lined up for the taxiway instead of the runway because it looked comfortably wider. Ever since that incident, I look for the numbers. But then I was new to flying and was working on my license.

[bayoubengal]

The media likes to sensationalize these events. Like Skywagon said, declaraing an emergency is used to get priority handling and proper ground response support. Rarely is a typical emergency truly an emergency in the fashion we like to think - life threatening. Most passengers who you see on TV talking about how scared they were would be surpised to know that at no time was their life ever in danger and at no time was the safe outcome really in doubt. I have shut down or shelled out 8 engines in my Air Force career, two at one time one night in a C-5 Galaxy, and the only two times my life was ever in danger was on a spy mission near the Russian border while being stalked by MIGs and once overflying a HAWK missile site During Desert Storm that we didn't know if it was friend or foe. Sully's water landing is an example of one of the few times an emergency is truly life threatening...

[UberXY]

I declared an emergency, tried to restart the engine, punched the airport I'd just left into the GPS, and landed safely.

 

My favorite button on my aviation GPS was the one that immediately displayed distance and heading to the nearest runway.

[beemerman2k]

I have shut down or shelled out 8 engines in my Air Force career, two at one time one night in a C-5 Galaxy, and the only two times my life was ever in danger was on a spy mission near the Russian border while being stalked by MIGs and once overflying a HAWK missile site During Desert Storm that we didn't know if it was friend or foe.

 

I've had this happen many times and it's never a pleasant experience. Lost an engine while piloting a fully loaded 747 over the Atlantic! In fact, I nearly crashed into the Golden Gate Bridge -- been there done that. Near runway disasters...terrible.

 

And you never really recover from the mental damage, either. It still haunts me to this day every time I fire up Microsoft Flight Simulator

 

OK, for real now, those C-5's are unbelievable huge jets! I wouldn't want to be anywhere near one if anything were to go wrong

[philbytx]

What an effing chump he was - I agree, take away his ticket!

 

David, BTDT too

Midway Airport, 8.00am. Took off on 31R and during departure the engine cut out over Archer Avenue. Isn't it so peaceful and quiet when that happens . I declared and during my 180 back to try to land on 13R (I was over a heavily populated area!), I managed to restart with partial power and got us down in one piece.

 

I did manage to stop MDW from functioning for about 20 minutes. After the dust settled, the FAA were quite understanding !

I don't think Midway Airlines and the others were too happy though as there was a nice conga line of jets waiting to take-off

 

Turned out it was a broken carb heat flap that was sucked up into the carb intake!

[4wheeldog]

And here is what happens when a total asshole flies a plane:

Beach Landing/NY

 

Interesting. Here's an article that helps better explain what was going on.

 

I'm not a pilot, but I'll wager a barfing passenger isn't an emergency, even if said passenger is unloading directly on the floor of the cockpit.

 

I have had barfing passengers in my cockpit, and it does give you the desire to land immediately......On a runway. I have sacrificed clothing in an effort to minimize the overflow onto the interior surfaces, however.

 

Landing wheels up on a beach would only be my choice if the plane lost all power out of glide range of an airport (Or road), or if the plane was on fire.

 

I don't fly anymore, but I can happily say that I was never responsible for a plane being damaged, and all my landings were at airports. I did have to land one without the engine running, however. On that occasion, I did have to use the "E" word, and declare "Souls on board".

[bayoubengal]

2K you are a funny man!

 

Phil I know that was scary. When I was a private student in BTR I lost the engine in a Beech Skipper at 1500' over the oil refinery tanks. The only other option was the Mississippi. My CFI handled it because I was frozen stiff. It restarted...

 

I shelled out one right after lift off from Frankfurt International at 763K #. 769 is max. Dove into Ramstein with hot brakes and ran from the airplane until we felt silly and then ran some more.

[Agent_Orange]

Not a pilot, but as a crew member went down three times in 'Nam'. I was with the 174th., Sharks and Dolphins, outta Duc Pho on my second and third tour. Twice by mechanical failure and once we were shot down.

Just threw the gun back and listened to the AC and pilot do their thing and hope it wouldn't hurt too much.

But WGAF?

[Green RT]

I am not a pilot either. However, flying as a passenger in a helicopter in the eastern Sierras in California, we lost the only engine. We were in the process of landing at about 13,000 feet on Sherwin Peak. No time for an auto-rotation to any place reasonable. The side of the ship hit on the side of the mountain and we slid down the talus slope for a ways. The pilot's left arm was pretty torn up. Fortunately, there was another helicopter working in the area and they were able to get him to a hospital in about a half hour. It was the middle of the winter and he wasn't dressed for exposure to the weather up there. He would have been in trouble if the other helicopter hadn't been available. The other passenger and I came through with just bruises and torn muscles. And we were dressed for the weather as we were planning to spend the day working at that altitude.