'02 sudden cut out

[tazplas]

Hi Guys

 

Did the following last weekend:

Oil and Filter

Valve Adjustment

New plugs - Autolite gapped at .038 (this is what i have run for the last 3 years)

Went for a test ride and all was well.

 

3 Bars on fuel gauge and it has always been reliable and yes there is heaps in there.

 

Went to get some beers today but decided to head home before i got them:cry: because of the following issue.

 

Whilst cruising at about 4.5-5k RPM,around 100kph (60mph-ish) in 4th (i think) whilst heading up hill and about 3 kms from home, the bike suddenly cut out and lost all power to the engine. I remember trying to restart the bike after cresting the hill and, whilst coasting down the other side cranked the engine but no firing. I think the brakes were still whizzy so no probs there but can't be sure as i turned the key off and came to a stop with residual braking.

Anyway, after stopping, i listened for all the correct noises and all seemd ok. Whizzy brakes, fuel pump and lights etc. Restarted bike and decided to head home back up the way i had come. All seemed good until i hit about 100kph (60mph-ish) in 4th whilst heading up hill.

Cut out again. My speed dropped and i got it restarted. I kept the speed at about 80-90kph (50mph-ish) in 4th and at just over 4K rpm and got home with the engine running perfectly.

 

My first thoughts are:

Can the '02 suffer from a HES problem?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

Steve

 

[tazplas]

Hi Guys

 

Neglected to mention this as it was running ok the other week.

 

I recently damaged the wiring from the O2 sensor and had to split the cable covering and resolder the cable.

 

I have just read this thread - http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=683235#Post683235

 

and this could be the problem i am now experiencing and the possible solution .

Suppose i have to take the tupperware off to sort it out again.

 

Will let you know if this fixes it.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[dirtrider]

Morning Steve

 

As a rule when an 02 starts acting up it first appears at idle and lower speed steady-state cruising. Depending on how it (the 02) is responding it might also cause problems like you are seeing, ---just as you come off a hill climb like yours did. As the hill load is dropped the system will be going back onto the 02 control.

 

In any case that would sure be the place to start looking as it was the last thing done before the problem started. If you soldered the 02 wires, that should be addressed and removed anyhow, even if it isn’t your immediate problem.

 

If you have a Techlusion on that bike that would be a place to look also (try a complete disconnect)

 

Otherwise look for a possible break in the wire harness near the tie strap in the steering neck area or possibly water in the fuel.

 

It doesn’t sound like HES problem and the 2002 up didn’t have that many HES problems but don’t completely rule it out.

 

[4wheeldog]

If it isn't the OX sensor, the symptoms you describe could be a fuel filter clogged up. How long has it been?

[tazplas]

Hi Guys

 

The only addition to this bike is Mccruise system fitted about a year ago. Never been a problem.

 

Have never changed the filter.Could be a solution perhaps. Might be worth doing since i will have the tank off anyway.

 

On another note, when i got home, i let the bike rest for 10 minutes and then restarted it. Ran it right through to about 6500 rpm and sounded AOK. I then checked the plugs. Seemed to me that the spark was sometimes there and sometimes not. Almost non existant. Replaced the plugs. Checked for spark. Yes, although didn't seem to be very strong. Bike then wouldn't start.

How strong should the spark be? Big blue spark or is a small thin spark sufficient?

 

So from all of that, i have a few checks to do today:

Coil

Leads

Side Stand switch

Disconnect the O2 unit

Posssible HES

 

Thanks for the ideas so far.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Steve

 

You need a pretty decent spark, bluish or bluish/white and snappy. Yellow or wimpy might not be good enough.

Remember that on that 02 RT one side spark plug is the spark ground path for the other side so you need one side plug wire hooked to a properly grounded spark plug while you check the other side for spark (or just ground one plug wire while you check for spark on the other side plug wire)

 

You might check that both plug wires are fully seated in the ign coil.

 

 

 

[tazplas]

Remember that on that 02 RT one side spark plug is the spark ground path for the other side so you need one side plug wire hooked to a properly grounded spark plug while you check the other side for spark (or just ground one plug wire while you check for spark on the other side plug wire)

 

Ahhhhhh!! Might pay to check this area again then

[tazplas]

Latest - Sparks OK. Installed 1 plug and tested the other and round the other way as well. Big fat spark

Coil - HT side tested - 7.2k Ohms

 

Oh and by the way, heaps of voltage coming out of the spark plug end. Ask me how i know!!! The hard way is how i know.

 

Have disconnected the O2 sensor. Next is to start her up.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[tazplas]

It' a no go.

 

Checked the injectors. Small sprays, no great torrents of fuel.

 

Occasional back fires

 

??????

 

Steve

[dirtrider]

Evening Steve

 

Maybe all that fooling has the TPS learn confused.

 

Before going much farther disconnect a battery cable for about 30 seconds, then reconnect the battery cable, then turn key on (do not start engine), then FULLY open and close the throttle twice (be sure choke is OFF). Then try to start engine.

 

If the above doesn’t help you will probably need to do a fuel pump output test. Remove a line from an injector, point it into a jar, then turn key on. You need to see a pencil sized stream of fuel for about 2 seconds.

 

 

[tazplas]

Thanks dirtrider

 

I have just had some luck.

 

Removed the LHS plug and cranked over. It wanted to go, so i put it back in. Cranked it and then thought it had failed but low and behold, it started. I ran it up and down a few times and let it idle. Very smooth. Stopped and then restarted the engine to make sure it wasn't just a fluke. All ok. Ran smooth.

 

So now i am letting it cool down and the battery can charge up and then i will try again.

 

I see you mentioned to have the choke off when doing the 'relearn' for the TPS. Ever since i installed the McCruise i don't have that feature. Has never made much difference in the starting and running of the bike so i never worried about it. I suppose i was lazy in not correcting it after installation of the McCruise.

 

That may well be the cause of the relearn issue.

 

Will give it another run this afternoon and see what happens

 

Thanks for all the help so far.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[tazplas]

Just took it out for a spin.

Went through all the paces - city,residential and freeway.

 

Runs like a dream. In fact it runs better now with the O2 disconnected than it ever has (it wasn't all that bad before). Mainly noticable at low speeds and when backing off the throttle in 1st or 2nd.

 

I think the problem may have been the TPS relearn issue combined with the O2 sensor after i damaged the cable and had to resolder back together. Taking the O2 out of the equation has definately improved the low end running and cruise mode.

 

Oh, and i finally got the beers i went out for yesterday.

 

Time for a cold one and thanks for all the help.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[dirtrider]

I see you mentioned to have the choke off when doing the 'relearn' for the TPS. Ever since i installed the McCruise i don't have that feature. Has never made much difference in the starting and running of the bike so i never worried about it. I suppose i was lazy in not correcting it after installation of the McCruise.

 

 

Morning Steve

 

I just wanted to make sure you didn’t have the choke (actually just a fast idle) ON during the TPS reset. If you now don’t have the choke (fast idle) operational then no big deal as you can’t leave it on.

 

Problem is: the choke (when on) opens the throttles slightly so skews the TPS closed throttle re-learn.

 

You can easily live without a choke (fast idle) on that bike by manually opening the twist grip a little at cold starting (same as using the factory choke)

 

 

Keep us posted on how it is running and if it keeps running.

 

 

[Hennepinboy]

What is the RID display doing when the engine dies? I had deteriorated hall sensor wires on my 02 R1150RT. The engine would just die, the RID display would look normal as if the engine was running. The bike would restart after the engine cooled down and run fine for a while and die again.

[tazplas]

RID was normal throughout the whole episode.

 

So far all is okay and she's running sweet.

 

Cheers

 

Steve