Cam tensioner upgrade still a good idea?

[peterbulgar]

My '04 R1150RA, purchased new, has 95k miles with normal maintenance and consumables. On a trip last summer a Harley rider commented on my clacking engine and asked if everything was OK. That was embarrassing.

 

I've put off purchasing and installing the upgraded cam chain tensioners (left and right) because I'm lazy and because from what I've read there's no harm being done except to my hearing and my self-esteem.

 

There hasn't been much about this subject on the forum recently, and I wondered if this is still a worthwhile procedure, or if any problems have cropped up on bikes that have had this done to them. In other words are there any reasons not to do this.

 

Thanks for your help,

peter 1973 R75/5, '04 R1150RA, '06 Kawa, '08 Suzuki

[Boffin]

It is only necessary to do the LH side. as the RH side is inverted and does not leak down. There have been a very small number of failures of the cam-chain guides on the LH side - a repair that needs a full engine tear-down ($$$).

 

The alternative tensioner takes a few minutes to fit once the tupperware is off and may, just possibly, save a lot of misery.

 

Andy

[dan cata]

But the cam chain tensioner upgrade only covers the rattle at startup, as Boffin mentioned, only the L/H side is needed, because it is positioned upside down and the oil leaks out.

 

If you still have the rattle sound after startup, a rocker end play adjustment (adjust them closer to the lower value spec mentioned in the manual for a less tapping sound).

 

If you still have the rattle, it could only be your TB's. And those are easy to check(at the mileage your bike has, most probabbly the TB's are rattling and not something else, that's what my money is on).

 

Dan.

[jfremder]

Dan nailed it, my vote is rocker end play. You'll be amazed at how much quieter the bike will be, especially when running hot.

 

But the cam chain tensioner upgrade only covers the rattle at startup, as Boffin mentioned, only the L/H side is needed, because it is positioned upside down and the oil leaks out.

 

If you still have the rattle sound after startup, a rocker end play adjustment (adjust them closer to the lower value spec mentioned in the manual for a less tapping sound).

 

If you still have the rattle, it could only be your TB's. And those are easy to check(at the mileage your bike has, most probabbly the TB's are rattling and not something else, that's what my money is on).

 

Dan.

[AndyS]

...a ....rider commented on my clacking engine and asked if everything was OK......

 

When is it clacking?

You can normally cast your ear around the bike or use a long stout screwdriver to place at various parts of the engine to establish where the noise is roughly emanating from.

 

As already mentioned cam chain tensioners only normally allow the clacking at initial start up for a second or two. If it is still making a noise after that, you should be looking elsewhere.

 

The throttle butterfly shafts do wear, and as Dan has said these rattle too. but tends to be a higher pitched clack than that caused by the cam chain. This can often be confirmed by steadying the throttle cable bell cranks by hand and the noise disappears/diminishes - (sadly tupperware off).

 

Valve gear also causes clacking and you may be able to identify this with the screwdriver 'stethoscope'.

 

Of course there could be much more sinister reasons for the noise, but we should only think about that later.

 

Andy

 

[Boffin]

...a ....rider commented on my clacking engine and asked if everything was OK......

 

When is it clacking?

You can normally cast your ear around the bike or use a long stout screwdriver to place at various parts of the engine to establish where the noise is roughly emanating from.

 

As already mentioned cam chain tensioners only normally allow the clacking at initial start up for a second or two. If it is still making a noise after that, you should be looking elsewhere.

 

The throttle butterfly shafts do wear, and as Dan has said these rattle too. but tends to be a higher pitched clack than that caused by the cam chain. This can often be confirmed by steadying the throttle cable bell cranks by hand and the noise disappears/diminishes - (sadly tupperware off).

 

Valve gear also causes clacking and you may be able to identify this with the screwdriver 'stethoscope'.

 

Of course there could be much more sinister reasons for the noise, but we should only think about that later.

 

Andy

 

One other common cause of clacking is poor throttle body snchronisation. The uneven tickover that results causes the gearbox to make an awfull racket. If the noise goes away when you pull in the clutch it is just the selector dogs knocking against each other.

 

Andy

[beemerboy]

I did the upgrade last summer with about 42K on the odometer. I keep my RT's valves and TB's in spec, the tensioner upgrade eliminated the rattle/clack/etc. noise. I say do it plus you'll get a chance to get your hands greasy and will learn a little more about your bike.

 

Upon completing the install I popped the top on a barley pop and toasted my efforts! It was a fun, rewarding, and tasty way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

[4wheeldog]

I did the upgrade on my '02 at about 50k. I believe it actually runs a little better, as well as being quieter. I credit this to the cam timing being more consistently under control. Do it.....You won't regret it.......Other than kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Good luck.

[AndyS]

I did the upgrade on my '02 at about 50k. I believe it actually runs a little better, as well as being quieter. I credit this to the cam timing being more consistently under control. Do it.....You won't regret it.......Other than kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Good luck.

 

Hi 4wheeldog. I agree it is worth doing, however, I think it is an illusion that it runs any better with the replacement tensioner fitted. Once oil pressure is circulating around the engine, all types of the tensioners are then working the same. The oil is the medium that applies the pressure to the piston of the tensioner and onto the guide blade. Even if it weren't, while the engine is pulling, the timing would be correct (if it were correct in the first place).

Andy

[Peter Parts]

Does the weight and type of oil (synth v dinosaur) influence the clacking? Time since last start-up?

 

I can't say as I've heard my machine clack but then maybe I should have used ear plugs more.

 

Ben

running Mobil 1 15-50 or even some 0-40 in cold weather

[AndyS]

Does the weight and type of oil (synth v dinosaur) influence the clacking? Time since last start-up?

 

 

Yes to weight of oil.(Can't/don't want to, comment on synth vs mineral)

Weight of oil may have a fractional effect on speed of oil pressure build up through the galleries.

 

Time since last start up, would be better defined as time since last shut down.

Once engine has stopped. Oil pressure falls away, and fluid drains out of pistons. Dependant on which style of piston currently fitted, the wear on the mating parts of the piston/body, the viscosity of the oil etc will all play a part in how soon there is insuficient oil in the the tensioner to provide tensioning pressure at initial start up.

If the bike is started sooner, the oil is already well distributed in all the oil delivery system so pumps the tensioner up in double quick time. If it has been a while, it will take longer.

 

 

[rich t]

Left side tensioner has been re-engineered,so that is a good candidate for replacement. After inspecting the right side tensioner, I decided to just replace the tensioner spring and crush washer. The right side has not been re-designed.

[4wheeldog]

I did the upgrade on my '02 at about 50k. I believe it actually runs a little better, as well as being quieter. I credit this to the cam timing being more consistently under control. Do it.....You won't regret it.......Other than kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Good luck.

 

Hi 4wheeldog. I agree it is worth doing, however, I think it is an illusion that it runs any better with the replacement tensioner fitted. Once oil pressure is circulating around the engine, all types of the tensioners are then working the same. The oil is the medium that applies the pressure to the piston of the tensioner and onto the guide blade. Even if it weren't, while the engine is pulling, the timing would be correct (if it were correct in the first place).

Andy

 

It may be the dread "Placebo effect", but I wonder if a bit of air trapped in the old style allows some bounce in the tensioner as the strain on the chain changes during cycles. Mine is definitely quieter when operated in the 7-8 bar range than it was before the change.

[peterbulgar]

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies.

 

The noise is most apparent when the engine is warm and it's at a low idle. From several replies this could be worn throttle body shaft or slightly out-of-sync throttle bodies, or maybe both. The next time I think about it I'll press on the side of the throttle body and see if it changes the sound. I'll probably do the left side tensioner just because it seems like a good idea. I'll also pull in the clutch to see if that changes anything. I tend to set my idle at the low end of the prescribed range.

 

Again, thanks for the help.

Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA, '06 Kawa EX-500, '08 Wee-Strom

[Steve Maxwell]

Just do it.

[Selden]

If your have the cam tensioner problem, it's immediately obvious on start up, especially if the engine is warm. Replacing the LH cam tensioner doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and can be done in under an hour with basic tools.

 

Slightly more difficult is adjusting the rocker arm end play, which has a huge "OK" range, so dealers rarely adjust -- and the adjustment is fairly labor intensive unless you get lucky. However, once the end play is adjusted, it probably never needs to be done again.

 

Both will help quiet an oilhead to near-sewing machine noise levels.

[ProductUser]

I have this clacking sound only when the engine is hot. The clacking started when I switched to synthetic.

 

The right-side rocker end-play can have an effect, but it's tough to get it to the lower side of spec. If you get it too tight, bad things will occur. As mentioned, dealers will not touch it if it's in spec.

 

I also replaced the left tensioner and verified the throttle stops were not "tapping" which is another cause.

 

I would verify that the throttle body butter fly shafts are worn before you attempt a replacement.

 

Remember, always go the cheap route, first

 

Tony