Filming is finally underway for "The Hobbit"

[beemerman2k]

For us hard core LOTR nerds:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20110321/ap_tr_ge/as_travel_brief_new_zealand_the_hobbit

 

I am so looking forward to this movie! If it proves anything like, "The Lord of the Ring" trilogy, I expect a great adventure. I have read this book several times now, and I expect I'll read it again in anticipation of this movie.

 

So how will the two films divide the story? Here's my suggested partitioning:

 

Part 1: "There"

- Bilbo's recruitment to the cause of the Dwarves

- The Trolls and Rivendell (where's Bree or Weathertop?)

- The Misty Mountain Adventures and the initial contact with the Goblins (riddles in the dark should be a "wicked cool" scene if I may use a Bostonian phrase ) Should be cool to see the Giants hurling the rocks at each other, too (a rather strange entry in the book).

- The initial encounter with the Wargs and Eagles

- The Carrock and the initial encounter with Beorn -- that super tough man/bear guy

- The forests of Mirkwood and the initial encounter with the Elves

 

There would have to be a mention in this first film of Gandalf and his exit from Bilbo and the dwarves to investigate the Necromancer, which I would think is a forshadowing of the Sauron and Mordor to come.

 

Part 2: "And Back Again"

- Recovery at Laketown and Esgaroth and the initial meeting of the towns folk

- Off to the Lonely Mountain

- The initial meeting of the remaining dwarves

- The initial meeting of SMAUG! (Make sure you're wearing Depends 'cause you're sure to crap your pants here )

- Finally: the Battle of the Five Armies! (Dwarves, Goblins, Wargs, Eagles, Townfolk)

- Bilbo returns home.

 

It's been a while since I last read the book, so I might be off on who the 5 armies consist of.

 

NERDS unite! We live yet again

[tallman]

I am not a Nerd.

I do however love the tales from Middle Earth and have for over 45 years.

The LOTR films were epic and for the most part true to the story.

I expect no less from this film and loook forward to seeing it.

Limiting the audience to nerds does a disservice to Tolkein, Jackson, and a story that will endure as one of the best written in the 20th century.

No offense intended James and none taken in your exuberant posting.

If you're ever down this way perhaps a marathon viewing is in order.

[beemerman2k]

OK, perhaps I should state my definition of the word, "nerd".

 

A "nerd" is someone who is so fascinated with a given subject, they focus on it to the exclusion of virtually all else. Nerds learn, discover, and care about all manner of what others would consider to be trivial with respect to that subject, too. Nothing about the subject is trivial to a nerd; it's all significant information to better understanding the subject matter!

 

For instance, I do business under two names: software engineering services under "The Anduin River Company" and photography under "Gondor Photography". My photo web site is at http://www.GondorPhotography.com I love Middle Earth lore to the exclusion of most all else in life -- aside from motorcycling and photography I suppose.

 

So I don't view "nerd" as a bad thing or a negative term, I view is as a statement of just how deeply embedded a person is with respect to a matter. For instance, math nerds are the ones who made March 14th, "Pi Day". Nerds are so into a matter that they can make all manner of statements full of hidden meaning that only a fellow nerd would pick up on.

 

That's what I mean by, "nerd".

 

There will be many people who will see these films, but a small percentage of them will already be so deeply immersed in Middle Earth lore that they will pick up on aspects of the film story that most others will miss.

 

BTW: who knows where the "Anduin River" is in Middle Earth? I would hope we all know where Gondor is!

[artig]

BTW: who knows where the "Anduin River" is in Middle Earth? I would hope we all know where Gondor is!

 

I plead ignorance. Now and then I ride through Buckland Rd, past Hobbiton, so I know where that is. But that's about as far as my knowledge of Middle Earth stretches.

 

Also slightly ashamed to admit that I have all 3 LoTR films on DVD, but have yet to watch any of them. I haven't auditioned to be an extra in the Hobbit films, either.

 

 

[DiggerJim]

If you're ever down this way perhaps a marathon viewing is in order.

Oh geez, can you imagine having all 5 films (LOTR & Hobbit) on Blu-Ray & watching them one after another on a big screen? That would qualify for nerd-dom

 

My daughter is considering having a party to watch the 1st 3 Pirates of the Caribbean movies before going to see the 4th this summer. We did something similar before the Star Wars Episode 1 release...

[Bob Palin]

I just hope it's better than the rubbish they produced for the other films.

[beemerman2k]

I just hope it's better than the rubbish they produced for the other films.

 

 

To be honest, while I thoroughly enjoyed the LOTR films, they blew a HUGE theme in the movies that is very present in the books: our symbiotic relationship with the natural world. All this stuff in our culture today concerning our "carbon footprint"? Tolkien was concerned about these very issues 50 years ago. In those books, he is juxtaposing 2 main cultural values, that of the Hobbits and that of Sauron.

 

The film does note that the Hobbits are a free people who live in a close relationship with the land. They farm and they live in loving families. They are all about respect for each other and respect for the earth. And they are free!

 

Sauron's people are anything but free. They are slaves to Sauron's will to dominate all life, and there is absolutely no room there for "nature" or "freedom" or "peace" or "respect". In that scene in "The Two Towers" when Saruman basically says "we will work the furnaces day and night", and that gobling responds, "but we don't have enough fuel", and Saruman declares, "The forests of Fangorn lies at our doorstep, burn it!" The Fangorn forests were a very old and historic area of Middle Earth of which he had no respect for. That very sentiment represents the height of blasphemy in the eyes of Tolkien and of Hobbit culture. In fact, if you're recall, Faramir was quite impressed that Frodo's right hand man is actually a gardener, and that was proof enough for him that Frodo and Samwise were no spies from Mordor. Treebeard, the Ent, is a creation of one of the gods of Middle Earth, created to protect the trees and all vegetation.

 

So you see the hints throughout the films, but they fail, in my opinion, to drive the point home! When you read the book, you see where Samwise notes that the Elves of the Gladhirim, the tree peoples, lived in a symbiotic existence with the trees; the trees were strong and healthy because of the care of the Elves, and the Elves were made safe and strong because of the protection provided by the trees! Conversely, when Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli decide to pursue the Orcs who took Pippen and Merry, Legolas notes that tracking these Uruk Hai couldn't be easier as they kill all vegetation in their path for absolutely no reason at all.

 

Clearly, Tolkien is declaring that it is the cultural values of the respective societies, and their respect for the kind of free and rich life the gods of Middle Earth intended, that defines who the "good" people are and who the "bad" people are. And by that definition, our very societies derives from Sauron's culture, not that of the Hobbits, and that may ultimately be why this message was so muted in the films.

[beemerman2k]

Oh geez, can you imagine having all 5 films (LOTR & Hobbit) on Blu-Ray & watching them one after another on a big screen? That would qualify for nerd-dom

 

 

Can't wait!

[beemerman2k]

BTW: who knows where the "Anduin River" is in Middle Earth? I would hope we all know where Gondor is!

 

I plead ignorance. Now and then I ride through Buckland Rd, past Hobbiton, so I know where that is. But that's about as far as my knowledge of Middle Earth stretches.

 

Also slightly ashamed to admit that I have all 3 LoTR films on DVD, but have yet to watch any of them. I haven't auditioned to be an extra in the Hobbit films, either.

 

 

What I wouldn't give to see your country. Beautiful!

 

For the record (and I have no idea where this body of water is in New Zealand), but the Anduin River is that river the Fellowship rides in the first LOTR film when they are followed by Gollum, and they see the Argonath -- the extremely tall statues of the 2 Kings of Gondor (I think one is an ancient King of Gondor and the other an ancient King of Arnor, these men were brothers and ruled over neighboring territories) extending their arms foward to warn all who pass that way.

 

This is also the same river that appears in, "The Return of the King" where Gollum kills his friend Deagol over the newly found Ring (it had lie there, undisturbed, for 2000 years from the time Aragorn's ancestor used it in an attempt to escape an ambush by Orcs along the river's shore), and also in the book, "The Hobbit", where the Eagle flies them to the Carock, a large rock in the middle of the (Anduin) river. It is a very important river in Middle Earth lore

 

Don't make me give you all a complete history of the River Anduin!

[Slyder_Steve]

My spousal unit's from Matamata--a little taller than your typical Hobbit Just as nice though

 

Father in law still lives there.

[randys]

I look forward to seeing it when it comes out. I too will probably dig out my dog eared copy of the book and give it another read.

 

I was very disappointed that Jackson left out the entire sequence of leaving the shire, getting lost in the dark woods and being rescued by Tom Bombadill

[JayW]

Also slightly ashamed to admit that I have all 3 LoTR films on DVD, but have yet to watch any of them. I haven't auditioned to be an extra in the Hobbit films, either.

 

 

Well if you're gonna audition you at least oughta watch the films, or your credibility may seem suspect. Seriously, they were among the best movies I have seen in the last 10 years. I have actually watched all of them more than once, which is rare for me.

 

Jay

[artig]

For the record (and I have no idea where this body of water is in New Zealand), but the Anduin River is that river the Fellowship rides in the first LOTR film when they are followed by Gollum, and they see the Argonath -- the extremely tall statues of the 2 Kings of Gondor (I think one is an ancient King of Gondor and the other an ancient King of Arnor, these men were brothers and ruled over neighboring territories) extending their arms foward to warn all who pass that way.

 

Don't make me give you all a complete history of the River Anduin!

 

There's a description of Anduin on Wikipedia, as well as a reference to its actual location. For locations that were filmed within the boundaries of various conservation areas, see the DOC page which has a list of them.

 

We've met with several visitors from the USA whose main purpose was seeing the various locations used for the films.

 

[Matts_12GS]

Just one more reason that I will never make it big in IT... I've never read nor seen any of the LOTR related stuff.

 

Now, that Steven King Gunslinger series... That's different!

[beemerman2k]

I was very disappointed that Jackson left out the entire sequence of leaving the shire, getting lost in the dark woods and being rescued by Tom Bombadill

 

If you look at the collectors DVD set, there are interviews with the cast and with Peter Jackson. He said he has to minimize the story as he only had so much time, and the encounter with the Wights, with Tom Bombadill and Lady Goldberry, and with the angry Willow tree just didn't prove central to the larger story. Nonetheless, it was during this time that Frodo came to appreciate that the forest life had just as much a right to live on the planet as he did, and thus his respect for all life in Middle Earth increased immensely, which was Tolkien's point.

[Fubar]

Just one more reason that I will never make it big in IT... I've never read nor seen any of the LOTR related stuff.

As for me, I start with "The Silmarillion" move on to "The Hobbit" then read LOTR. In my mind it is a 5 part story and I can no longer read it any other way. It provides so much info/background and thus the story makes so much more sense on so many more levels it becomes immersive.

The story of the Ents is really the only "nature-specific" part of the LOTR that comes to mind and that is in the third movie. Too bad but still a great trilogy.

[Matts_12GS]

Just one more reason that I will never make it big in IT... I've never read nor seen any of the LOTR related stuff.

quote]

 

I probably should have added "Nor was I interested in..."

[beemerman2k]

As for me, I start with "The Silmarillion" move on to "The Hobbit" then read LOTR. In my mind it is a 5 part story and I can no longer read it any other way. It provides so much info/background and thus the story makes so much more sense on so many more levels it becomes immersive.

 

The story of the Ents is really the only "nature-specific" part of the LOTR that comes to mind and that is in the third movie. Too bad but still a great trilogy.

 

The Ents actually make their initial appearance in the second movie (and book, although they are referenced in the first), "The Two Towers", when Merry and Pippen escape from Sarumans Orcs and run into the Forests of Fangorn. Of course, the movie takes liberties on the actual development of events; in the book no one had to motivate the Ents to rally against Saruman, they were already formulating a plan when Treebeard encounters Merry and Pippen.

 

Yes, "The Silmarillion" is a critical work in understanding the historical context of these later tales. In that work you come to see how Illuvatar and his angels (I forget the actual term used) created Middle Earth through song, how the Elves came to be and the story of the Simaril, a jewel created by a rather brillian Elf whose name escapes me, and how later, humans emerged onto the scene. You learn of Morgoth, the most talented of Illuvatar's angels turned evil, and later of his leutenant, Sauron, who continues his work. How the men and Elves aligned to fight against the forces of Morgoth, which included fighting against the Balrog's, one of which appears in "The Fellowship of the Ring" in the "Mines of Moria". And how, because of that alliance, men were granted a place to live on the island of Westernesse, a place within eyeshot of Valinor, the haven reserved only for the Angels of Illuvatar and the Elves (which is where they are all sailing to at the end of, "The Return of the King"). Frodo and Bilbo being the first and only non-Elves ever to step foot on that island, and presumably live to tell about it!

 

Probably the most amazing story is how Sauron decieved the men of Westerness to literally attack Valinor! Those who did were demolisted in an instant, but those who chose not to join that foolish mission, sailed back to the main land and established the Kingdom of Gondor, and Aragorn is a direct descendant of these people -- thus his extraordinarily long life. Thus we have the setting for "The Hobbit" and "The LOTR" stories to come.

 

In any case, there is an extremely rich history behind the lifeforms represented in these tales, and there are loyalties and rivalries that predate these stories by thousands of years, too. The men of Gondor and the men of Rohan have a rich history of alliances and conflicts. So, too, among the Elves of Lothlorian and the Elves of Mirkwood, and the Elves versus the Dwarves, and the Dwarves versus men. To understand these long ago formed divisions is to appreciate the significance of the Fellowship that initially formed -- an Elf and a Dwarf on a mission together? Are you kidding me? Since when? That alone suggests the importance of this mission becuase that could never happen otherwise.

 

In any case, it doesn't take long before you realize that Tolkien, himself, was The Lord of the Nerds!

[beemerman2k]

The story of the Ents is really the only "nature-specific" part of the LOTR that comes to mind and that is in the third movie. Too bad but still a great trilogy.

 

By the way, if you read "The Silmarillion", then you know how the Ents came to be. In the beginning, only Illuvatar (aka Eru) was to create life in Middle Earth. One of the Angels, the god of the metals and stone, wanted to create a life form himself, so he created the dwarves without the authority or knowledge of Illuvatar or the other Angeles. When he finally reveals what he did, Illuvatar accepts his apology, but his wife, another of the gods, the god of all vegetation, fears that these dwarves will harm her trees, thus Illuvatar creates the Ents to protect the forests from harm done by the dwarves.

 

Thus the craftsmen, the miners, those early users of technology if you will, were not the direct result of Illuvatar, and they are potentially dangerous to his creation and thus must be contained.

 

The implied lessons in these books are so many, but they all seem in my mind to point to the protecting, the honoring, and the banding together to protect God's creation, and to fight for the free and simple life lived in harmony with that very creation. Sauron wanted all power to himself, therefore creation is but a tool to facilitate those ends. Life forms are but tools used for the same purposes. I look around the planet today and see these same values at work. Everyday life forms on this planet are going extinct in the name of "progress" and the "march of civilization". Wild animals and vegetation no longer have a place to call their own where they once florished for tens of thousands of years. "The forests of Fangorn lie at our doorstep. Burn it!"

 

I like the signature at the end of JohnRan's posts (what, he changed his quote? Well, it formerly stated something about how our lives exist solely at the discretion of those in power). He clearly states what Tolkien already understood, that all life in cultures like our own exist to serve the powerful and we are not free to come together and form our own, free, societies in which we serve ourselves, like the Hobbits did. This is why he felt, and I feel, that our own culture mirrors that of Sauron and not that of the Hobbits. Now it may be in this modern world the kind of culture we now live in is essential to survival. Everywhere on the planet where people live as the Hobbits once did are now broiled in a struggle to survive (all over Africa, Tibet, and other places -- the Amazon rain forests, etc). OK, at least we can live life with the understanding of what we're doing, why, and the potential costs and benefits of doing so. Knowledge is a good thing I would think.

[Ron_B]

Just one more reason that I will never make it big in IT... I've never read nor seen any of the LOTR related stuff.

 

I probably should have added "Nor was I interested in..."

 

[ghaverkamp]

He said he has to minimize the story as he only had so much time

 

That's hard to believe, as I'm pretty sure the 2 I saw went on for an eternity.

[JustJean]

My youngest son is a nerd. He read all of these books and I just watched the movies. He explained the movies when I had questions and filled in what the books had in them. Very fun to watch. I will see if he knows about the filming of this new movie? If he doesn't then I have one upped him!!!

[Matts_12GS]

You sir, are a wonderful human being. I have to get a copy!

[Slyder_Steve]

Should have mentioned that my father-in-law would be happy to open his "Shire" home to any fellow BMWSTers--literally 3 minutes from Bilbo's pad. He'll talk your darn ear off, but will be of good intention and a welcoming Kiwi--wish I could spend more time with him

 

Large cold beverages in the fridge to boot.

 

Slyder

[beemerman2k]

Should have mentioned that my father-in-law would be happy to open his "Shire" home to any fellow BMWSTers--literally 3 minutes from Bilbo's pad. He'll talk your darn ear off, but will be of good intention and a welcoming Kiwi--wish I could spend more time with him

 

Large cold beverages in the fridge to boot.

 

Slyder

 

What a coincidence, just like Bilbo Baggins!

 

All the hobbits, including your father-in-law, seem to share these common traits

[DiggerJim]

For the record (and I have no idea where this body of water is in New Zealand),

Primarily the Rangitikei River which is New Zealand's longest (120ish miles long). Some of the shallows used the Hutt River in the Kaitoke Regional Park.

 

Did you really want to know?

[beemerman2k]

**** 3RD Conference on Middle Earth *****

Tomorrow and Saturday in Westford, MA

 

I will be there on Saturday, baby

 

Yeah baby! Nerds unite! I'm luvin' it!!!

 

http://www.3rdcome.org/

 

[beemerman2k]

For the record (and I have no idea where this body of water is in New Zealand),

Primarily the Rangitikei River which is New Zealand's longest (120ish miles long). Some of the shallows used the Hutt River in the Kaitoke Regional Park.

 

Did you really want to know?

 

Thanks, yes I wanted to know. Now I'll just fire up Google Earth...

[artig]

Primarily the Rangitikei River which is New Zealand's longest (120ish miles long). Some of the shallows used the Hutt River in the Kaitoke Regional Park.

 

It's not the longest river. It's number 5 on the list. Its 185km is overshadowed by the Waikato River with 425km. The Clutha, Whanganui and Taieri rivers are also longer.

 

According to the DoC website I referenced earlier, the Anduin was also filmed in various other locations.

 

[beemerman2k]

So I wonder where they filmed the huge plane of land that makes up Osgiliah, which rested on the shores of the Anduin, and Minas Tirith? This wouldn't be far from where the mythical Anudin River runs into the sea.

 

In the book, Mordor is within eyeshot of both of these cities (you see the fire and smoke rising above the mountaintops in the films). Osgiliah would be close to Minas Tirith, but somewhere between that city and Mordor, which is why Sauron's forces take that city in the Two Towers prior to waging their assult on the White City of Minas Tirith.

 

Sauron's armies likely travelled this path to Minas Tirith:

 

Mordor - this is the hellish land where Souron lives

 

Minas Morgul - the one time Godorian city that rests on the edge of Mordor where the 9 Nazgul (black riders) emrge from to pursue Frodo and the ring

 

Ithilien - beautiful land where Frodo and Sam meet Faramir in "The Two Towers"

 

Osgiliath - city where Frodo and Sam party company with Faramir and continue on to Mordor

 

Anduin River - everything seems to happen around this mythical river!

 

Minas Tirith - the "white city", and capital of the Kingdom of Gondor. The final city under seige by Sauron and where Aragorn is finally crowned king.

 

Tolkien is already considered the greatest author of the 20th century, but he had to have the greatest imagination of the 20th century, too.

[Matts_12GS]

You really need to get out more James....

 

buy a motorcycle. go for a ride....

 

[beemerman2k]

Oh yeah, for those who do not know this, Matt rides a motorcycle! Really, he does! I know, amazing.

 

Matt, if I wanted to do something crazy like that, I'd hang out on a motorcycle web forum instead of this place where I can talk about LOTR!

[artig]

So I wonder where they filmed the huge plane of land that makes up Osgiliah, which rested on the shores of the Anduin, and Minas Tirith?

 

You should put "The Lord of the Rings Location Guidebook: Extended Edition" by Ian Brodie on your wish list. The information is probably available somewhere on the internet, but the book is the guide that many visitors to NZ use to find the locations.

[Fubar]

Matt, if I wanted to do something crazy like that, I'd hang out on a motorcycle web forum instead of this place where I can talk about LOTR!

Dude, I'm a big fan of JRR but, with my swiss cheese-like memory, I have no retention of any of this stuff beyond the basic outlines (future alzheimer patient?). To read your post with such detail (and spot-on spelling even) is really cool in the geekiest way. I wish I could remember this stuff but at least its basically a brand new adventure every time I read it, about every 5 years. Feels about that time again. I wonder how it turns out?

 

Side note: Can we start referring to our two-wheeled brethren of the loud V-twin, chrome and leather stereotype as Nazguls henceforth? Or is that just too mean?

[beemerman2k]

Side note: Can we start referring to our two-wheeled brethren of the loud V-twin, chrome and leather stereotype as Nazguls henceforth? Or is that just too mean?

 

Nazgul is Kick @ss, baby "Something wicked this way comes", is an apt term for these guys.

 

Among my favorite things to do is to go out on the bike and put on the theme song for the Nazgul from the "Lord of the Rings" soundtrack. Talk about feelin' bad @ss, and that's on my RT. Imagine what it would feel like riding some big American Iron -- assuming you could hear the music over those loud pipes? I'm surprised Harley hasn't come out with the "Nazgul" line of cruisers yet! If the Nazgul were to return today, they'd most definitely be riding big, American, chromed out, V-twin iron -- of that you can be sure.

 

BMW RT? No. Frodo and Samwise might be on BMW RT's Gandalf might own a silver K1300S named, "Shadowfax". Boromir and Aragorn would be on closer to stock American Harley's as they are both clean and bad @ss all at the same time. Legolas on a SS1000R no doubt. And Gimli would have to ride bitch with somebody.

 

That's how I see this lineup riding to dispose of Sauron and all his minions

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

And Gimli would have to ride bitch with somebody.

 

Naw. Ninja250. Or maybe a Burgman.

[tallman]

My '71 Schwinn Paramount is named Shadowfax.

I cheated and named the '80 RT Shadowfax also.

The GT is Mearas Luin.

[DiggerJim]

Side note: Can we start referring to our two-wheeled brethren of the loud V-twin, chrome and leather stereotype as Nazguls henceforth? Or is that just too mean?

Nah, there were only 9 of them. More likely that they'd be Orcs of a sort - called Glamhoth by the Elves (translated as "the noisy horde").

[tallman]

Nine, aren't there nine members of the USSC?

Orcs, .

[Fubar]

I like Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries". So much so that it is also my ringtone on the Android. It was also in two of my favorite movies, "Blues Brothers" & "Apocalypse Now". Great tune and very German.

[DiggerJim]

I like Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries". So much so that it is also my ringtone on the Android. It was also in two of my favorite movies, "Blues Brothers" & "Apocalypse Now". Great tune and very German.

Who can forget the classic "What's Opera, Doc?" the classic Bugs cartoon responsible for more appreciation of classical German opera than any other single piece of American movie making!

What's Opera, Doc? YouTube