How would you deal with an intruder?

[upflying]

news update

 

A few days ago, I was chatting with a neighbor about the incident. Another neighbor saw us and joined in the conversation. I told this neighbor that we had been discussing crime in the neighborhood. "Funny you mention it" she says and begins to explain something that occurred to her last Sunday. She said the door bell rang as her son was watching NASCAR. The two people at the door explained they had run out of gas and asked for help and money to get to a gas station. Neighbor agrees to help and left them outside her doorstep while she grabbed car keys and wallet to help out the stranded pair. Neighbor reopens the front door and discovers both are now in handcuffs with several Antioch PD officers standing over them.

Their description of course matched the pair who had gone through my yard.

What's ironic is I seldom have contact with this neighbor. Had it not been for the chance sidewalk meeting, this neighbor would have never shared this story with me.

Revenge is sweet!

[Paul Mihalka]

And your neighbor possibly was very lucky!

[Kathy R]

This is why I smile, wave at and converse with all my immediate neighbors on a weekly basis; some on a near daily basis. They are part of my first line of defense. We all have one another's back and we understand that in order to do that we have to know one another, taking the time to be involved with one another's lives. This coming week - another payoff - a big St Patrick's party down the street.

 

I had the same thing going in the condo in the city a few years ago. People are people. I can't do everything by myself. I need my neighbor. Criminals hate neighborhoods like mine and it shows.

[philbytx]

We have great neighbors....and we also know we are all armed

[Mark G]

I am on the fence with how you handled this. It's better to lay waiting(armed of course!), watching through the window while calling the police(we get paid to do this stuff)...because just as your neighbor later advised, they were up to no good.

 

And it doesn't matter if you felt confident sizing them up. If they had a razor or gun or needle, odds are in their favor.

 

And remember if they make entry, you don't have to flee from your home...it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!

 

 

[Fugu]

Should I have grabbed a phone and my weapons before I greeted this pair in my yard?

 

Should have had phone and weapons and wife. no need to go out and greet them. Monitor.

 

If they act aggressively modify your behavior accordingly.

 

 

Or is it just as well that I was unarmed since using any of my weapons on this pair would not be justified.

 

No. Had you needed a weapon things could have gone poorly without one.

 

Would I be tempted to use a weapon if I had one?

 

You seem rational. My thought is no.

 

 

And once displayed, then what? Do I say "you are under arrest"? Without handcuffs, how do I secure both?

 

you don't display as a show of force. You don't arrest. You act to protect yourself. no need for cuffs, you aren't taking anyone to jail. not your job, not your training, not in your best interest. you survive. All else is secondary.

 

Ideally you are trained to deal with this. you might say " STOP. DROP THE WEAPON" or something similar as a training artifact, but not arrest or "freeze".

 

 

 

If I used physical control techniques to arrest the pair, how do I physically control both who are half my age.

one of many reasons to NOT detain. NOT arrest.

 

Survive. be a witness. Let those capable and trained handle apprehension, hopefully in teams with backup.

 

Cuffing, holding people at gunpoint, all bad ideas. Handcuffs are purely recreational.

 

 

Had I successfully made an arrest for trespassing, then what?

probably get sued for starters. Don't do it. Survive.

 

PD books and releases the pair on a misdemeanor citation. Will they come back looking for me? Or will they look for my wife and/or do a vengeful drive by shooting at my house at O'dark thirty?

 

yet another reason to not detain, or interact with scum unless they force you to.

 

Initially, I got really upset at myself for handling this in a milquetoast manner.

Not to Sunday night QB you, but you should have made sure the doors and windows were locked, got the wife on the phone w/ 911 (and armed if she knows what to do) and been ready to repel boarders. I would not go out to confront them.

 

 

 

Although I was frightened, I tried not to display my fear by acting assertive. One part of me wished I had gone physical on the intruders but the other side of me said I would probably get hurt and end up in the hospital.

You did good. DOn't second guess..

 

I just felt so violated. The last bastion of safety and privacy is a man's home. These two strangers barged in uninvited and trampled my dignity and machismo. Even with my presence to deter their progress, I apparently posed no threat. I feel belittled, mocked and disrespected.

On the other hand, maybe I handled this in the best way. What do you think?

 

Yup. All the above. It sucks, it does not feel good at all.

 

You did well enough, and nobody got hurt.

 

 

I've been there, done that. 4 AM, July 3 years ago. Intruder(s) in my house. Alarm went off, motion sensors in the garage then a door in the garage- the one to the outside luckily.

[philbytx]

You got it....stay in the house, dial 911, go to your "safe spot" with weapon in hand

[MotorinLA]

Get a dog. Lots of truely sweet pitbulls and other dogs at the Pound, that need a good home. Got the best dog I have ever owned there. All three of my kids have been man-handling our pitbull ever since we got him from the Pound about four years ago. He is gentle and very tolerant. Didn't think he was much of a watchdog, until the Terminex guy tried to walk into our back yard. He was met with a set of barred teeth and a throaty growl . My kids were playing in the back yard at the time and apparently the protective instinct kicked in when our dog saw him. Needless to say the Terminex guy didn't enter our back yard, until my wife brought our dog inside the house .

[motorman587]

Bob,

I thought or did I read you are a retired LEO?? Just wondering because it appears that your are ranting on stuff we do everyday..............maybe I am confused.

 

Had this happen a few weeks ago as I am driving down my road. A scooter comes out my driveway. Driveway is 700 feet wooded on both sides. I do a traffic stop to question the guy on why he is on my property, I just got off work. Had no idea what I had, I thought burglary. Turns out he was making a u turn in my yard. He had a suspend DL and I think he saw me coming up the street and dipped into my driveway.

 

Same thing in your case, sounds like at first you had at best trespassers. Heck ya I would arm myself you never know and I would have keep my distance. Once they stated they were just passing through, open the gate and let them go. Then call LEO if needed. Most important is your safety and that of your family. Just my $.02

[upflying]

John, I am retired LEO but I am still working part-time, aka double dipping.

I would have opened the gate if I had brought the key. Things I did wrong tactically is mentioned previously in this thread.

As far as making a traffic stop in your driveway..wrong IMO. I would wait until he drove away to stop him. Suspended driver now knows where you live.

When I am riding home on my black and white motor, I pass by my home if I see someone following me down the street.

At no time during my back yard ordeal did I ever mention I was a LEO.

If I had to do it again, I would still challenge and confront anyone on my property. No way in hell am I going to cower in fear inside my home.

[motorman587]

John, I am retired LEO but I am still working part-time, aka double dipping.

I would have opened the gate if I had brought the key. Things I did wrong tactically is mentioned previously in this thread.

As far as making a traffic stop in your driveway..wrong IMO. I would wait until he drove away to stop him. Suspended driver now knows where you live.

When I am riding home on my black and white motor, I pass by my home if I see someone following me down the street.

At no time during my back yard ordeal did I ever mention I was a LEO.

If I had to do it again, I would still challenge and confront anyone on my property. No way in hell am I going to cower in fear inside my home.

 

Guess you guys do it different on the west coast...........To carry concealed you have to show your badge, so we are cops 24/7.......The traffic stop was done at the neighbors house, where the kid lived. Made sure the kid did not break into my house. You would not do a stop?? When would you?? Nobody said you had to cower in your own home, cop or no cop.

[Kathy R]

No way in hell am I going to cower in fear inside my home.

 

Obviously, no one suggested that.

[upflying]

John, I am retired LEO but I am still working part-time, aka double dipping.

I would have opened the gate if I had brought the key. Things I did wrong tactically is mentioned previously in this thread.

As far as making a traffic stop in your driveway..wrong IMO. I would wait until he drove away to stop him. Suspended driver now knows where you live.

When I am riding home on my black and white motor, I pass by my home if I see someone following me down the street.

At no time during my back yard ordeal did I ever mention I was a LEO.

If I had to do it again, I would still challenge and confront anyone on my property. No way in hell am I going to cower in fear inside my home.

 

Guess you guys do it different on the west coast...........To carry concealed you have to show your badge, so we are cops 24/7.......The traffic stop was done at the neighbors house, where the kid lived. Made sure the kid did not break into my house. You would not do a stop?? When would you?? Nobody said you had to cower in your own home, cop or no cop.

No requirement to show a badge when off-duty in Ca. Never carried an off-duty badge, just my ID card.

Some in this thread suggested remaining inside your home if an intruder was on your property.

Sure I would make a stop, just not at my house. I keep the police Harley well hidden in my garage. No need to make my home a target for vandals or a drive-by shooting at O'dark-thirty.