How would you deal with an intruder?

[upflying]

Sorry for a post that sounds like a rant. Sometimes you feel better when you tell others about it.

I live in a one story 30 year old ranch house on a 1/4 acre lot in a large subdivision. As is custom here in Ca, each property is separated by a 6' high redwood fence erected on the property lines. I recently rebuilt the fencing so it is new and sturdy. My family room is in the rear of the house and looks out to my backyard through a large sliding glass door.

Crime in my city has gone up and murders have increased 300%. (from 5 in 2009 to 15 in 2010) Through attrition, the city police department has let it's authorized strength dwindle to 100 officers from an authorized strength of 125. The PD has a reactive posture now and only responds to major incidents. Arrests have gone down as workload and calls for service goes up. The traffic unit was disbanded and traffic officers are now working patrol.

As such, I am taking a defensive posture to protect my home and property. I have baseball bat, mace and a handgun near my front door.

The property behind my home has been vacant for six months, a victim of the foreclosure crisis. Antioch is one of the top cities for foreclosure in Ca. Many such abandoned homes in the city fall into disrepair and become homes for squatters. Every other day or so, I peek over my rear yard fence and take a look at the vacant home just to make sure no one has "moved in".

Yesterday at about 2:30 pm, I was calmly watching NASCAR with my wife in the family room. It had been raining all day and I had my shoes and jacket on to keep warm. With about 30 laps left, to my surprise and horror I see two people climbing over my fence, from the yard of the foreclosed property and into my yard.

The male and female were in their early 30's and dressed in cheap fleece, sweat type clothing. Sterotypically speaking, I would say they are probably meth addicts.

Without hesitation, I jump up from the sofa, slide the door open and ask, "what the fuch are you do in my yard"? I walk out and meet them as the male explained with minor shortness of breath, "my girlfriend was assualted by her ex and we are trying to get away from him, please let us go".

The pair then walk down my side driveway to a locked chain link gate that leads to the front of the home and the street. The male asks, "please open the gate". I told them I did not have a key for the gate. I explain I will be calling the police to report the assault on the female. "Please don't call the police" is the response. Neither are physically threatening to me. The male is actually trying to talk to me in a polite manner. I am physically and mentally on "condition red" even though I have no weapons, much less a cell phone. Adrenalin is flowing freely and it is affecting my and anger and emotions.

The pair turn around and meet my sullen and speechless wife at the back slider, expecting entry to go through my hose to the front of the home. No freeking way! Both appear increasingly agitated that they were trapped in my backyard with no way to escape. It was also apparent that I was being a pesky verbal hindrance in their escape plans.

The two then walked past me as I continue to yell for them to get the off my property. I follow them down the side yard on the opposite of my home and watch them calmly climb another redwood fence and run away south on the street in front of my home. The male discards a garage door opener on my lawn as he leaves.

I return to the home and use a cordless phone to dial 911. The dispatcher answers immediately. I explain I just had two people run through my yard. The dispatcher seemed disinterested and unconcerned with my story. In an effort to explain where they came from, I walked to the rear yard fence and looked over. About a half-dozen Antioch officers were in the rear yard of the foreclosed home. The rear slider was open and officers were going inside. An unseen (before this incident) Honda Civic was parked in the side yard of the property. I advised the officers the suspects they were seeking had just left my yard. As far as I know, they were not located or apprehended.

From what I could tell, the Honda was stolen and the suspects had briefly taken up residence inside the vacant home. another neighbor had apparently seen them occupying the home and called police. The police were at the front door as the suspects escaped out the back door and into my yard.

As with any critical incident, I went through a mental debrief over and over about what happened and how I handled it. Should I have grabbed a phone and my weapons before I greeted this pair in my yard?

Or is it just as well that I was unarmed since using any of my weapons on this pair would not be justified.

Would I be tempted to use a weapon if I had one? And once displayed, then what? Do I say "you are under arrest"? Without handcuffs, how do I secure both?

If I used physical control techniques to arrest the pair, how do I physically control both who are half my age.

Had I successfully made an arrest for trespassing, then what? PD books and releases the pair on a misdemeanor citation. Will they come back looking for me? Or will they look for my wife and/or do a vengeful drive by shooting at my house at O'dark thirty?

Initially, I got really upset at myself for handling this in a milquetoast manner. Although I was frightened, I tried not to display my fear by acting assertive. One part of me wished I had gone physical on the intruders but the other side of me said I would probably get hurt and end up in the hospital.

I just felt so violated. The last bastion of safety and privacy is a man's home. These two strangers barged in uninvited and trampled my dignity and machismo. Even with my presence to deter their progress, I apparently posed no threat. I feel belittled, mocked and disrespected.

On the other hand, maybe I handled this in the best way. What do you think?

 

[Twisties]

Crime is not going up in Antioch. Obviously you have some normal variation from year to year. It appears that 2009 was very low, and 2010 was slightly high, but other years are around 10. So there is simply no evidence that your murder rate exhibits any identifiable trend since 2006 (first year available). The same with most of the other crime stats. At a quick glance, they seem perfectly flat, going back to 2006.

 

City of Antioch PD

 

As for me, I couldn't care less if someone goes through my yard, and the last thing I am going to do is confront them. If they seem to be doing more than passing through, I might call the police.

 

As for in the house, on the very off chance that we actually had an intruder, it happens that our bedroom area is fitted with a deadbolt. I bring the cell phone in the bedroom at night, and if hear anything scary I can get up and bolt the deadbolt until police arrive.

 

 

[4wheeldog]

You have my empathy........But you need a dog!

They would never have proceeded into your yard if a canine was present. Letting them see that you had a weapon without using it would only make your house a target in your absence. The drill at my place, when I lived in CA and had drug dealers for neighbors, was for me to go out and deal with the intruders in the yard (Must have happened 25 times before they moved) and my wife would be on the phone to 911. You can't shoot 'em, but a dog can you chew 'em without reprecussions. Just sayin'.

 

 

[upflying]

My source for Antioch crime.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_17264411?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com&nclick_check=1

[Dave McReynolds]

Your response was kind of an eye-opener for me. I could see myself responding as you did, and having similar unanswered questions as you posed.

 

My assumption from your profile and previous posts is that you have had long experience as a law enforcement officer. The reason your response was kind of an eye-opener for me, is that I would have guessed that you would have had planned responses to such situations.

 

You commented:

 

I just felt so violated. The last bastion of safety and privacy is a man's home. These two strangers barged in uninvited and trampled my dignity and machismo. Even with my presence to deter their progress, I apparently posed no threat. I feel belittled, mocked and disrespected.

 

I could see myself feeling that way, in the immediate aftermath of the incident. I believe after a while, I would come to the understanding that neither of the people knew me nor were they trying to do anything to hurt me or my property; they just wanted to get away from whatever they wanted to escape from on the other side of the fence. I would think you would come around to that detached view sooner than I would, with your training, but maybe it's different when you're personally involved than when you're on duty.

 

I think you acted about as well as you could have under the circumstances. You certainly had no moral duty to try and help them escape (unless there was something to their story about the abusive ex, which doesn't seem to be the case). OTOH, If you had come down harder than you did, it would not have been appropriate either.

[Dennis Andress]

I once lived on the east side of San Bernardino. "Blighted" was the official description. I ran off more than a few squatters from vacant houses in the neighborhood. For the most part squatters just want a hassle free place to hang out for the night. So, hassle them. My approach was to make a lot of noise i.e. yell at the squatters to get off the property, call the PD, call city hall to get the house boarded. That last one is key, it solves the problem. The more often the PD gets called, the sooner the house is boarded.

 

I think you handled it very well. They obviously weren't concerned about anything you said though. That should have been a clue to take a look over the fence to see if there was a reason. Next time you run out the door like that ask you wife to call 911.

[Matts_12GS]

Bob,

I empathize with you and felt that emotional violation as a result of an incident years ago.

 

I don't know if you did anything wrong or if you handled it right but you certainly seemed to have defused the situation enough and shown yourself to be willing enough to confront that if they were to return you'd like not get a return visit.

 

I'll second the dog motion too. My pup is not the fiercest, but his bark certainly is and he'll make sure that anyone who thinks of messing with our house and family thinks twice about....

[eddd]

"Should I have grabbed a phone and my weapons before I greeted this pair in my yard?"

 

 

That would be my choice in this situation.

[Whip]

"Should I have grabbed a phone and my weapons before I greeted this pair in my yard?"

 

 

That would be my choice in this situation.

 

 

Either that or lock the doors and call 911.

 

I woke to a tall young man swingin a club at my dogs in the backyard not too long ago. The dogs were going nuts. I got my gun and hid it in my back, confronted him from 50 yards, told him to put the club down before I took it away from him and fed him to my dogs. A lady popped up from the fence line bushes and introduced herself as my new neighbor and this was her son. They were "from the city" and could not stand the sound/site of this poor deer being tormented by my dogs. They were protecting a fawn from the Mooo....LOL. I helped them blanket up the fawn and they took it home with them. I think they still have it.

 

We are all friends.....and very good neighbors.

 

I think they were very brave to come into my yard. 7 dogs(at that time) and a crazy Armenian with guns.......

 

 

I love city folks

 

 

 

[Kathy R]

Bob, I'm very glad you and your wife suffered no tragedy at the hands of these two criminals. I commend you for being proactive about the safety of your family and property.

 

I think that under the circumstances you did a very good job. You didn't overreact, except for running out to meet them, and yet you put up the right reaction to get rid of them. But, I would have wished you'd remained in the safety of your house and shouted from a window. You know you were lucky that they were cool customers and that they didn't choose to brandish a weapon. Everything could have gone terribly downhill...

 

Take advantage of folks available to you and talk to someone about this.

 

 

[JustJean]

How well do you know your neighbors? Maybe a neighborhood watch would help and I agree with edd if you've got protection take it with you. I have a neighbor who can tell me bless you from her home when I sneeze in my home and we don't even have a neighborhood watch. Just today she told me about two police SUV's patrolling this morning by tomorrow she will be able to tell me why!

 

If you know your neighbors the minute something happens you are made aware of it.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Where I live we don't have fences. We have right of ways along the property lines. No one knows the property line but the owner. All properties are over 1 acre. We don't have crime either. We have in our community what the sheriff calls a parenting problem. Everyone within thirty miles of my location knows that everyone up here has guns. I think you handled the issue properly. No one got hurt. The thieves won't return to get even. But if they had pointed a weapon at you what then? Glad you are okay.

[Twisties]

My source for Antioch crime.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_17264411?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com&nclick_check=1

 

I charted out the Antioch PD Stats, 2006 is the first year listed, however it shows the 2005 data as well as 2006 in the 2006 view. So we can go back to 2005. It took maybe 5 minutes to make a nice chart, and 40 minutes to figure out how to get it up onto BMWST. Go figure. Here are your crime trends:

 

 

 

 

Your thefts do seem to exhibit a slight downward trend, and your burglaries a corresponding upward trend, but the total of the two is pretty flat, and I would tend to guess that this is a result of differences in coding over that time period.

 

I don't know if you could call a trend in robbery.

 

Murder and rape don't exhibit any significant change.

[Firefight911]

And if the stats showed zero crime, it is all irrlelevant to the predicament Bob actually faced. Statistics is not the issue so quit hanging on it.

 

Bob, I think you bring up some very valid points and have received some very good responses.

 

I have faced strangers in my yard a few times. First time, I confronted with nothing but my own adrenalin. Mistake! Second time, I brought my phone as well Mistake as I left my front door. Next time, I will have my phone and gun and ask said trespasser to leave my property or I will call the police. I will not show my weapon or indicate to them that I have one. I will retreat to inside my house if confronted by trespasser and inform them I am willing and able to defend myself at that time.

 

I would also think it a good thing to ask your police department on how they would like you to handle things. Most likely they will tell you to stay in your home and call 911 and not to confront the individual(s). Not bad advice knowing that you are willing and able to defend yourself should trespasser enter your home without provocation. At that time, the individual will hopefully have ID on him so the police will be able to notify his next of kin.

[bayoubengal]

I'm pretty much close to Phil's camp. I would first call 911. I would then confront them from my door assuming there is sufficient distance to safely do so. If they get aggressive or come towards me I lock the door from the inside. The first they know that I have a weapons is a millisecond before they are on the floor in my foyer because as soon as they enter my home they are a threat to my family and are thus dead.

 

I have a multi-layered security strategy even though I live in a low crime area. I have a whole house security system with police, fire and ambulance hotlines. I have signage to indicate security. I have Collies, which make great alarm dogs and even better pets. I have a large amount of outdoor lights available, which can be turned on with one switch. And I am armed. Oh and I have six military marksmanship awards...

[g_frey]

I think you were lucky. No way I would confront two in my yard without backup. I once had a confrontation with a person who later tortured killed a lady. His dog came out after my dog on the street. Found out later his whole family were a little wacko. Could have been bad, but I was lucky too.

[Powers77]

Hindsight being 20/20 I don't think I would have confronted them in this situation. Grab the gun and call the police. May have gone to the door and yelled out but knowing that they were basically trapped back there I think I'd want to leave them a path of least resistance exit. Cornered animals are dangerous.

Had kind of a related experience here. House across the street was a "vacation rental". One day I notice a Uhaul coming and going taking all the furniture away. After about the third trip I'm leaving on the bike to spend the day and the DMV for my new plate. As I leave I can see from fresh tire marks in my drive that they have used my drive to be able to back in their drive. No big deal really until I note that they managed to back through a couple of bushes in the process. Messed them up pretty good. So I get of the bike, take off the helmet and knock on the door. Get someones attention and say excuse me, think you accidently did some damage to my bushes. The response is f^(K you, you did not see it happen so it did not happen. Not the response I was hoping for I have to admit.

So, I leave, put the bike back in the garage, grab the gun and call the police, keeping and eye on them the whole time. (4 of them) After about 3 hours the police finally show up. In the mean time I've taken numerous photos of all the vehicles, parties involved etc... Police tell me even if I saw them do it nothing is going to happen.

From some side conversations I know that the owner of the house was aware what happened and could not have care less.

Not worth escalating things over a couple of $50 bushes but I have to tell you the whole experience really pissed me off.

Biggest frustration is that there is no recourse. Had someone hit and run my car in a parking lot this last weekend. Witness got all the info and again I called the police. Became clear it was going to be a waste of time to pursue that one as well.

Beginning to think actions don't have consequences but hoping for Karma to catch up with these ba$t@rds.

 

[subvet]

this raises the hair on the back of my neck.

it's hard to judge your actions as right or wrong w/o being there, but having experienced a similar situation many years ago, I would not go outside again. in my case, there were 2 of them. one of the guys got into my house through an open window and the other was 1/2-way in before I realized what was going on. I was fortunate enough to get the upperhand quickly but carried it outside where I could have easily been out-manuevered if they'd meant to harm me or had wanted something badly enough. fortunately, I guess they were more surprised/scared than I was and kept running once I had them on the run.

 

the monday morning perspective:

a call to authorities as soon as you see them come over the fence

warn them from the door not to approach the house and make a retreat if they come toward the house

if they try to enter or get inside, use all force necessary to get them out. once out they'll probably keep going...don't pursue.

[Skywagon]

First secure your weapon on you out of site. Call 911 and with your training you might tell them possible 459 in progress requesting assistance code 3...but you know all that stuff.

 

Talk to them from the protection of your home. As long as they aren't a threat to you or your family, wait until assistance arrives.

 

Most importantly going forward, you now know you need to have a plan in your head you will execute. Much like your years of training, but for your home.

 

I use to live in Antioch Ca in 1989. Living in Texas is different. So the next piece is just difference in what is allowable and prudent in the eyes of the law and the person violated.

 

I made my decisions a long time ago. I won't shoot anyone over theft, mischief, vandalism, or anything I deem non-life threatening.

 

The minute you break in with me yelling at you to stay out, you will have crossed that threshold.

 

One of the most prevalent crimes in Houston right now is people knocking on your door pretending to be something e.g. gas company, water, police, etc. If you answer the door, they generally go away. If you don't answer the door, they kick it in. If you are home most of the time it is violent.

 

So the wife unit and I have decided to talk through the door and try to shoo them away. If they kick the door in, I have already made my decision.

 

Glad you are ok. Glad your wife is ok. Glad the perps didn't get hurt by taking it to a different level...but my view is still don't go outside as nothing in your yard is worth risking getting you or your family hurt. Get your plan and work your plan.

 

Just my .02...

[pbbeck]

To answer the original question, two words....

 

Remington 870

 

Well, a word and a number.

[SeanC]

Initially, I got really upset at myself for handling this in a milquetoast manner. Although I was frightened, I tried not to display my fear by acting assertive. One part of me wished I had gone physical on the intruders but the other side of me said I would probably get hurt and end up in the hospital.

I know exactly how you feel. But I think you handled it appropriately. Adrenaline does weird things. The Friday before last, I saw someone climbing over my back fence. Actually, I heard it first (one side of our fence is relatively new, but the back fence facing the alley is old and termite damaged, and I heard a loud cracking and squeaking noise). I heard voices in the alley, so I took off out the front door, ran around the corner, and up the alley. I found two teenagers with skateboards drinking beer. I asked them if they'd been in our yard. They said no. I was all pumped and confrontational, but then I remembered drinking beer as a teenager, so I told them to be careful and not get in any trouble.

 

The next day I found two Bud Light bottles in my yard. I think what I saw was one of them climbing on the fence and tossing the empty into my yard. I doubt they were ever in my yard, but just on my fence. In any case, it wasn't very prudent of me to go sprinting down the block and up the alley to confront them. Who knows who I might have encountered?

 

Anyway, the important thing is no one's in a hospital or a morgue. Don't beat yourself up with double-guessing. And thanks for reminding me that we need to get another dog to replace our dearly departed Buddy.

[yabadabapal]

Well done Bob. Id say you handled it just fine considering the circumstances. Get yourself a good friend. "a Dog". Good for your heart and good for your home.

[Natche]

Bob, I'm very glad you and your wife suffered no tragedy at the hands of these two criminals. I commend you for being proactive about the safety of your family and property.

 

I think that under the circumstances you did a very good job. You didn't overreact, except for running out to meet them, and yet you put up the right reaction to get rid of them. But, I would have wished you'd remained in the safety of your house and shouted from a window. You know you were lucky that they were cool customers and that they didn't choose to brandish a weapon. Everything could have gone terribly downhill...

 

Take advantage of folks available to you and talk to someone about this.

 

 

I concur on this point (see underlined). I think I would have watched from inside while making my presence know (visible). If they quickly left the yard I doubt I would have done anything more than observed where they went next. I'm not sure why you felt so violated by this. Of course, I do live in a low crime area with a larger unfenced yard so my situation is different.

 

Your home provides the best protection in this situation and going outside to confront them puts you in harms way. A weapon, used within the home, should be your last line of defense if you believe harm to you or your family is imminent. Using one in any other way will likely come with regrets. In this situation it seems they posed no immediate threat to the safety of your family.

[tallman]

Dog(s).

Yes.

 

You should not have exited your house w/out a plan.

 

You should not have confronted 2 criminals (they were trespassing) w/out a plan and the intention to execute your plan.

 

Your wife should have immediately called 911 as part of your rsponse plan.

 

A bit surprised that the dispatch didn't link the 2 locations or that the arrival of all the LEO's wasn't noticeable before looking over the fence.

 

You seem to think you weren't a threat to them.

Did you want to be perceived as a threat?

If so you didn't act that way, IMO.

 

You let the situation become about them.

If you wanted control, IMO, it should have been about you and your property.

 

You were fortunate that these 2 chose to continue on and not involve you or your wife.

If they fled from a perceived threat it may have been a threat big enough to have them choose to act in a manner you did not prepare to encounter.

Maybe a third strike was in the mix and he/she would do anything to avoid it.

 

In Florida we no longer have a duty to retreat.

Our home is our castle.

No doubt that here you could have shot them claimng fear for your life as they rushed you.

 

Probably a good thing you didn't.

 

After someone tried to force their way into our house and I had to resort to physical interaction while my wife called 911 we devised a plan and the willingness to initiate it and carry it through.

We do have a large dog.

We do have access to lethal and nonlethal tools.

We have permits and train.

 

I'm glad you are OK physically.

Don't beat yourself up.

You may have intimidated them more than you know and that is why they chose to exit rather than confront.

Best wishes.

 

[EddyQ]

Bob, I think you handled the situation very well.

Being an officer and taking the role of public athority every day, it must have been very difficult for you to not have complete control of the situation. But, the decision to let them go was the best choice IMO.

 

As for the suggestions on this thread to go get a firearm, I have bad news. I have been shooting competitively since I was a teen. In the past decade, I managed to let my liscences laps. I attended the firearms safety class last spring in order to renew my liscence. What was said was quite a shock. Here in the baystate, if I ever use a firearm to protect myself, even in my home, I would end my own life as I know it. The legal fees alone would force me to sell my house and likely ruin my family. The point was, to NEVER go get the gun. Basically, while guns are legal here in the baystate, they should never be used for defence.

 

That being said, I have a hard time accepting this situation with our current laws and implementation. Maybe I am old fashioned, but I feel the intruder is taking a risk breaking into a home and the risk should be real. But today, there is no risk for the intruder and they know it. Yes, it is BS. You must defend yourself another way.

[Powers77]

One of the most prevalent crimes in Houston right now is people knocking on your door pretending to be something e.g. gas company, water, police, etc. If you answer the door, they generally go away. If you don't answer the door, they kick it in. If you are home most of the time it is violent.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up on that. We have a practice of ignoring and not opening the door and had not considered those consequences. Time to rethink.

[DavidEBSmith]

The last time I encountered strangers in my back yard, it was the SWAT team surrounding one of the townhouses next-door. Running out there with a weapon in hand wouldn't have been a good thing.

[4wheeldog]

First secure your weapon on you out of site.

 

This is the only part of your advise that I would handle differently. Though I am licensed to conceal carry, my preferred home defense weapon is a shotgun. If it were kids that I felt I could control easily, I would set it in an accessible position and speak to them from the doorway. If I felt I had to go out to confront them, (Which would not be likely, given this situation), I would have it in a ready position, certainly not hidden. Folks do all kinds of stupid stuff in the presence of a handgun that they would never consider when confronted with shotgun. Just sayin'.....

 

Of course, I say this living in NM.....Not CA, so local does matter.

 

[Jake]

The last time I encountered strangers in my back yard, it was the SWAT team surrounding one of the townhouses next-door. Running out there with a weapon in hand wouldn't have been a good thing.

 

Particularly in your town, you'd have been fine if you were yelling "Hut hut hut hut hut hut hut..."

[upflying]

Thanks for all the support and advice.

Tactical mistakes I made in hindsight..

1. Failing to tell my wife to immediately call 911. I thought she would do this on her own.

2. Failing to arm myself before confronting the trespassers (weapon would not be displayed until if/when needed for self-defense) Arming options would also include a non-lethal weapon such as Mace.

3. Failing to bring a cell with me

4. Failing to know the address of the foreclosed home

5. Failing to recognize I had no emergency or contingency plan when the unexpected suddenly occurs in the last place you would expect trouble

6. Going from a relaxed, sedate, passive state to full blown adrenalin pumping condition red, survivalist instincts, flight or fight mode while making the correct decisions is extremely difficult

7. Failing to demand they go back over the fence the way they came

8. Failing to look over the fence sooner

 

While remaining inside the safety of your home is recommended, I know of no off-duty cops who would remain inside their home when something like this happens. All will go out and confront suspects because that is part of the LEO mindset. There is no time for second guessing. We live to take charge and dive in. Training and instincts take over and you deal with the situation immediately.

 

A dog is an excellent idea but I've never owned a dog. My reasons are the care and responsibility. A dog is a family member and it is a non-revocable 10-15 year commitment. Lot's of time and effort are needed to own a dog.

 

I will probably be installing razor wire on top of that fence that separates the foreclosed home and my home.

 

I know all my neighbors and get along with them well. We watch out for each other but this was a backyard incident, out of view of my street neighbors.

[EddyQ]

I will probably be installing razor wire on top of that fence that separates the foreclosed home and my home.

 

Around here, rasberry bushes thrive. Rose bushes work well too. Jump off a fence onto either one and that would be the last time you do that. And, they look nice. Cons, they take time to grow/maintain.

[4wheeldog]

I will probably be installing razor wire on top of that fence that separates the foreclosed home and my home.

 

Around here, rasberry bushes thrive. Rose bushes work well too. Jump off a fence onto either one and that would be the last time you do that. And, they look nice. Cons, they take time to grow/maintain.

 

Dogs do the same thing, only they move around so you can't miss them.

[leikam]

Bob, I'm glad this incident didn't get violent.

 

I attribute a large part of the dynamic you describe to the fact that you shared a primary goal with the trespassers: that they leave your property. You weren't threatening to them because you were asking them to do what they already wanted to do. The only negotiation was about the means to that end. If you hadn't confronted them or done so from the house, I think it's entirely possible that they would have left without harming you or your property.

 

And in the end, it sounds like you mostly got what you wanted so, from that point of view, you handled this incident successfully. This was certainly not a worst case situation and your response matched that severity. "Plan for the worst while hoping for the best" may be the way forward here.

[Jake]

I think a valuable takeaway here is the need for preparedness. I believe many of us would have acted similarly, but the situation could have been worse - a trespass could have easily have been a home invasion. Other than having a weapon, can of pepper spray, a baseball bat and a cell phone, how many of us (and our families) are truly prepared for such a situation? I'd be real interested to hear from a family who actually goes through drills on this, and what their process is.

 

We practice panic braking on our motorycles, we take CPR classes at work, the pilots among us practice engine-out situations. Who's really ready for panic in your home?

[AviP]

Shooting someone for trespassing is way over the top. I don't get the shoot first, ask questions later mentality. And then, there is the potential legal burden.

 

IMHO, you best course of action was to ask them to leave asap.

 

In hindsight, they were trapped and if they carried weapons, they might have used it.

 

[Quinn]

Doesn't seem that you had a real clear plan. Were you trying to shoo them out of your yard and off your property? Detain them for the police? Just get your ass kicked or maybe shot?

 

I'm not fond of huddling in my house while things are going are happening on my property, but I've also reached the age where anybody in decent shape under the age of forty can probably whoop me. I like carrying a gun before confronting anyone on my property, but I'm in North Carolina and not California. I've never tried to do more than run people off and take down their license number after asking questions. Don't know how the police would react (when and if they showed up) if I had tresspassers spread eagle on the ground with a gun pointed at them. I know they wouldn't be happy if I shot someone running away.

 

The gun is not for shooting tresspassers, it's for shooting tresspassers who attack an old man in his own yard.

 

----

 

 

[EddyQ]

The gun is not for shooting tresspassers, it's for shooting tresspassers who attack an old man in his own yard.

 

Not anymore Quinn. Shooting is not the answer for attackers even if justified here in Mass. The lawyers would ask why you didn't use pepper spray?

[pbharvey]

Who's really ready for panic in your home?

 

At 2:30 on a Sunday afternoon? Probably none of us. That's the time of the week when I'd expect the least amount of trouble.

 

 

(This thread is going to make me have the dream where I need to shoot someone and I can't load my gun)

[Mister Tee]

When the Tee was stationed in Germany, I was on gate guard duty when two drunk German girls thought it would be funny to blow past the gate without stopping (this was before 9/11 and there were no active or passive barriers at the gate to stop or slow vehicles down.)

 

I saw the situation for what it was, and alerted the reaction squad to go round them up, vs. opening fire on them with my M16 as they drove by. Situation ended up well, no rounds fired, and they were sent on their way with a stern warning not to do it again.

 

I was chastised for not opening fire on them in an attempt to stop them before they got very far. Do I think I did the right thing? Yes, I still do. And I have no aversion to engaging hostile targets with a weapon - it wouldn't have been the first time.

 

Bottom line, is every situation like that requires some level of judgement. I would react very differently if the intruders in question were in my home, vs. the yard even if it's fenced and gated. I think going out and engaging the intruders with no protection or backup was a fairly bad idea, but it also would have been a bad idea to escalate the situation in to one where the use force was necessary given the outdoor setting.

[CarrotNC]

...The lawyers would ask why you didn't use pepper spray?...

 

Pepper spray has a high chance of being ineffective against someone wearing glasses/goggles, and has been shown to simply enrage highly combative people. Google will help unearth these details.

Police have resorted to using a taser after pepper spray was ineffective, so I can picture the lawyers asking the same of our mythical defender. Answer would be a taser is a single use weapon, equivalent to a single shot pistol. Great against a single attacker or up to three assailants standling close together so a "multi shot" taser can contact them all at once. But nearly useless if the shot misses or another attacker enters the perimeter.

 

For my part, I'd prefer a nearly universally recognized defensive tool, capable of multiple target engagement in rapid succession at more than an arm's length (I'm not knife-savvy nor physically capable). Given the high potential of a home invasion involving more than one intruder, the lowest risk (in my opinion) defensive tool for the homeowner is a properly functioning firearm with which they've trained and mentally resolved to use when called upon.

[tallman]

The gun is not for shooting tresspassers, it's for shooting tresspassers who attack an old man in his own yard.

 

Not anymore Quinn. Shooting is not the answer for attackers even if justified here in Mass. The lawyers would ask why you didn't use pepper spray?

 

 

I don't agree.

I've read recent cases in Massachewsetties where acting in self defense, or defense or others was OK.

Regardless, old proverb about being judged by 12 instead of carried by 6 applies.

Best wishes.

 

 

Jake,

We practice.

Not going into specifics, but a plan is in place and the tools are at hand.

McGruff, our 90 pound Anatolian, has a role that he relishes.

In his world everything tastes like chicken.

 

[AviP]

Learn this:

[philbytx]

Simple, Pimple.

Don't put up with that touchie feelie CA crap...just move to Texas !

 

 

Seriously, given your geographic location etc....you did the right thing . But now, if moving is out of the question, you need to be way more pro-active. Adding motion sensor lights and putting a canine on your property is a good first line but dogs are an easily defeatable alarm but an alarm nonetheless.

 

The next line is a Remington 870.....then a sidearm!!!

 

God Bless Texas

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Twisties]

Learn this:

 

Ahh, Lucca, a most interesting place.

[steve.foote]

Jake,

We practice.

Not going into specifics, but a plan is in place and the tools are at hand.

McGruff, our 90 pound Anatolian, has a role that he relishes.

In his world everything tastes like chicken.

 

+1

 

In a public forum I won't go into much detail either but since I live in a very rural area, and an unexpected intruder could be quite dangerous, I have no intention of making it a fair fight.

 

Double +1 on Rover.

[RonStewart]

I live in an upscale neighbourhood that has largely been unaffected by the recession. Tsawwassen is a 2-mile by 2-mile square, and has only two roads leading in. The main Vancouver newspaper has described Tsawwassen as Little Rhodesia because of our lack of ethnic diversity. Breakins happen, but are not very common. Cars get stolen, and fences get kicked in by bored rich kids. In my memory, there have been three murders in the community in 40 years (and two of those were a bored rich kid trying to get at his inheritance early).

 

My street is 1/4 mile long and at the far end the houses with views are worth well into 7 figures. On Monday night at 7:00 a car parked across the street from my neighbour at that end. Men who obviously do not live in our community went to the door, and my neighbour answered. He was stabbed twice, and his lung was punctured. Others in the household apparently got the intruders to flee. The victim is in hospital.

 

There are rumours on our street indicating that this was not a random event. All I know is that the victim is a very nice man with no criminal involvement. I chat with him from time to time.

 

Intruders? Stay away. Stay far away. Better your grass get trampled than you get knifed.

[upflying]

Learn this:

Nice video. Unfortunately some of us are not athletic 25 yr old males from Serbia.

More crime update today. I found a driver's licesne in my driveway this morning. Belongs to a neighbor down the street. I personally returned it and neighbor said her car had been broken into and purse stolen. Minor in the big scheme of things but just another event to reinforce the perception that crime is out of control.

[4wheeldog]

Learn this:

Nice video. Unfortunately some of us are not athletic 25 yr old males from Serbia.

More crime update today. I found a driver's licesne in my driveway this morning. Belongs to a neighbor down the street. I personally returned it and neighbor said her car had been broken into and purse stolen. Minor in the big scheme of things but just another event to reinforce the perception that crime is out of control.

 

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on your neighbor's car incident being directly related to your intruders. Bad people tend to work an area until they are given a reason to leave. Stay on RED alert until you have a reason not to. Just sayin'.

[ESokoloff]

Well with this post fresh on my mind you could imagine how the hair on the back of my neck stood up this morning when I realized there was an intruder on the side/back of the property.

As I was contemplating my options & looking for the perp, I spied hem walking back out & I noticed the uniform of the utility company

 

[pbbeck]

Learn this:

 

+1 on learning how to defend yourself.

 

For the last year, I have been studying Krav Maga, a close-combat fighting style used by the IDF and many law enforcement agencies. I am 41 and have never in my life been involved in boxing or martial arts, but it seemed like an interesting alternative to treadmills and boring gym machines. Along with weight training I've lost 20 pounds, but just as important has been the peace of mind I have now knowing how to defend myself should I have to. IMO most people do not know how to fight, and deep down inside they are afraid of it. Studying any fighting style and developing a repertoire of moves gives you a major advantage in any situation that demands getting physical. Even better, having a fighting skill-set shows up in the way you present yourself when dealing with people who pose a potential threat which I believe can defuse the situation before even getting physical.

 

Living right in the middle of Long Beach, amidst the urban blight and the scads of sketchy people, I have far more peace of mind than I used to.