Cost of Operation.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I just went through the books I keep and entered all the info into Excel.

 

Not including repairs or insurance here's what 3 of my vehicles cost to operate for the last 10,000 miles each:

 

BMW R1150RT; 10,162 miles ridden. Cost of operation $1344.54 or $0.13/mile.

2000 VW Jetta VR6; 10,241 miles. Cost of operation $1519.54 or $0.15/mile.

1998.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel; 10,426 miles. Cost $2191.99 or $0.21/mile.

 

These numbers include the cost of gas, the prorated cost of tires for the car and truck (actual cost for the motorcycle) and the cost of routine service.

 

The actual savings comes in when I ride the motorcycle to work 3/4 of the time instead of the truck and get a discount on the toll bridge.

 

http://www.beachbus.net/storage/VM.xls

[Whip]

Thanks Boney

 

Good info.

 

I don't keep good enough records so I don't really know.

 

L

 

 

 

 

 

[Lmar]

Good data indeed. Thanks

[moshe_levy]

Boney-

 

Does your service cost listed assume you did all the labor on all 3 vehicles? I had a similar spreadsheet I made up and my RT (with dealer service) was on the order of twice as expensive to run as my car.

 

-MKL

[Rocer]

All three vehicles appear to be comparable in age. Why didn't you include cost of repairs and insurance? It would be interesting to see how they stack up in a comparison of ownership costs vs. operating costs. You would need data over a longer distance / period though. My suspicion would be that the truck at it's age would start stacking up some considerable maintenance costs but perhaps not the car or bike. Thanks for the interesting info.

 

[Quinn]

I would think that the rising cost of fuel will widen the gap between vehicles. Regular vs. premium vs. diesel.

 

---

 

 

[tallman]

You own a truck?

[Paul Mihalka]

Cost of operation: I don't want to know....

[swilson]

When diesel peaked at $5.25 a couple years ago I calculated the cost of my commute (fuel only). To bring my diesel pickup to work and back was $20. The R1200RT was $7 for the same trip.

 

Thanks for the numbers boney... you do some serious record keeping. I wonder how tire replacement would affect those numbers, since most autos will go at least 30-40k before needing tires while the RT needs tires every 6k-10k.

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

I used my RT for commuting for almost two years (600 miles a week). My spread sheet I used is much more extensive, but it ended with the same results. At the time, my choices were my Jeep Wrangler (~19mpg) or my RT (~40mpg). The RT was the only way I could afford to get to work while I was supporting Danielle through nursing school.

 

My choices now are either the Wrangler, RT, or Danielle's old Toyota Corolla (~34mpg), so I have been driving the Corolla more. Of course, in order to get to drive that we had to buy Danielle something else........she ended up with a newer Grand Cherokee Limited with the V8 in it .

 

I have this strange feeling that gas is going to go through the roof again this summer and she will be taking her Corolla back. Then I will be back on the RT everyday. Either that, or try out the new commuter bus service between York and Baltimore. Beats me, there is no good answer

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I came up with these numbers a few years ago, assuming 15,000 miles per year for five years:

 

=======================================

First up, an '03 Nissan Maxima.

Insurance: $500/yr (estimated)

Purchase: $30K

Sell: $11K (estimated)

Tires: $400, mid-grade tires last 35K miles

Combined MPG: 25, on premium gas at $3.30/gal

Oil change: $40 every 6K miles

 

insurance per mile: $0.03

depreciation per mile: $0.25

tires per mile: $0.01

fuel per mile: $0.13

oil change per mile: $0.01

Total cost: $0.44 per mile

 

 

=======================================

Next up, a '99 RT:

Insurance: $340/yr (estimated)

Purchase: $16K

Sell: $5K

Tires: $240, tires last 6K miles

Combined MPG: 38, on premium gas at $3.30/gal

Oil change: $40 every 6K miles

 

insurance per mile: $0.02

depreciation per mile: $0.15

tires per mile: $0.04

fuel per mile: $0.09

oil change per mile: $0.01

Total cost: $0.30 per mile

 

 

 

=======================================

Finally, if you're really shooting for minimal cost per mile (short of pedaling or walking), you buy a used Kawasaki Ninja 250R:

 

Insurance: $250/yr (estimated)

Purchase: $2500 (remember, this is used)

Sell: $1500 (estimated)

Tires: $240, get hard tires last 12K miles

Combined MPG: 50, on crapgas at $3.10/gal

Oil change: $40 every 6K miles

 

insurance per mile: $0.02

depreciation per mile: $0.01

tires per mile: $0.02

fuel per mile: $0.05

oil change per mile: $0.01

Total cost: $0.11 per mile

=======================================

 

If I add up just fuel, tires, and maintenance, I come up with 14 cents per mile for the RT, which fits pretty closely with your 13 cents. Those costs are hardly the whole picture, though. Depreciation is huge, and points to the folly of buying a brand-new vehicle; if saving money is a priority, then it's worthwhile buying a vehicle that's already had a few years of use and has significantly depreciated.

 

My dad has bought used vehicles nearly all his life. He typically sought out cars that were 2-3 years old with a lot of miles on them; his thinking was that these would be mostly highway miles, meaning the engine didn't see many short trips/cold-starts, and there weren't many cycles on things like door hinges or starters. IOW the car would be in great shape despite the mileage, and high miles on the odometer dissuaded most other buyers, which meant that such vehicles were up for sale at lower price.

[RT66Rider]

Now if you can figure out a way to place a value on the WOW!!! factor of each vehicle and feed that into the equation

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Boney-

 

Does your service cost listed assume you did all the labor on all 3 vehicles? I had a similar spreadsheet I made up and my RT (with dealer service) was on the order of twice as expensive to run as my car.

 

-MKL

 

I do all my own service on all the vehicles. I use only synthetics and run a regular interval on the RT, and a 10,000 miles interval on both the car and truck. I buy my non-branded parts from OEM manufacturers.

 

Why didn't you include cost of repairs and insurance?

 

My records aren't that good. I do have almost every tank of gas ever put into these vehicles, but the repairs are detailed as to what was done, not how much they cost. I do it all myself, so I suppose I could dig out the parts receipts- they're in a file cabinet around here, I'm sure.

 

There's other issues as well. We bought the Jetta and BMW new, but I got the truck at a steep family discount. In terms of overall cost, it will come out as the winner.

 

When diesel peaked at $5.25 a couple years ago I calculated the cost of my commute (fuel only). To bring my diesel pickup to work and back was $20. The R1200RT was $7 for the same trip.

 

Thanks for the numbers boney... you do some serious record keeping. I wonder how tire replacement would affect those numbers, since most autos will go at least 30-40k before needing tires while the RT needs tires every 6k-10k.

 

Even at today's prices, I can pay for the insurance and tires for all my motorcycles by riding the RT to work (instead of taking the truck) 3/4 of the time. I also get a discount using the motorcycle when I cross the Golden Gate Bridge.

 

The cost of tires is included in the numbers I provided. I prorated the cost of the truck tires for an expected life of 60k, and the cost of the Jetta tires to 80k since that's what we got out of the last set (same tires.) In 10k on the RT, I use about 1.7 rear tires and 1.3 fronts, so I put in the price of 3 tires.

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Now if you can figure out a way to place a value on the WOW!!! factor of each vehicle and feed that into the equation

 

It's the same. There is some overlap but the specialty uses they individually have does not.

[Marty Hill]

You own a truck?

 

Yes, he has a truck and I've gone to lunch in it!

 

Hey Tom/see you this summer.

[Twisties]

You own a truck?

 

How else does one forget the moto key?

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

You own a truck?

 

How else does one forget the moto key?

 

...or get the moto home after walking out of the Sierras...

[Twisties]

I guess I figure that most decent car vs decent moto operational costs are in about the same ballpark. The moto may be a bit cheaper per mile on average. But, if you have the moto as an extra vehicle to reduce per mile costs, against a reasonably economical car, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

You are paying ins. and depreciation on two vehicles instead of one, and there is no way a couple of cents a mile makes up for that.

 

Against a large truck, the numbers work better, don't know which is the better overall way to go.

 

But in general, car to moto, the moto only makes economic sense if it is a sole vehicle. Obviously any specific case may differ, beater moto to luxury car may work out differently.

[Twisties]

You own a truck?

 

How else does one forget the moto key?

 

...or get the moto home after walking out of the Sierras...

 

You know Tom, you really do lead quite the life... Just Saying :-)

[Paul Mihalka]

"we had to buy Danielle something else........she ended up with a newer Grand Cherokee Limited with the V8 in it"

 

Keith, she deserves it!

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

You own a truck?

 

Yes, he has a truck and I've gone to lunch in it!

 

Hey Tom/see you this summer.

 

I'll be here!

 

I was getting coffee the other morning at Philz and thought it would be funny if I ran into you.

[EffBee]

I don't keep detailed vehicle records, although I do keep all service receipts.

 

So, if I estimate my Rav4, it goes something like this. For gas costs at $3/gal at 25mpg for 10K I get $1200. Plus 1/4th the cost of my tires (mounted and balanced) at $75, plus two services which include oil change and tire rotation (one of which was the BIG $60K service at $300), I get $1575, or 0.16 per mile.

 

I bought the 99RT with 14K on the clock. It has 25K now, so that's about 10,000 miles. One set of PR2's at $275 mounted and balanced, two self-done valve adjustments and oil services at $100 in parts. And it gets 42mpg. That comes to $715 in gas plus the tires plus the services, which is $1190 or 0.12 per mile.

 

All in all, pretty close to your figures.

[OoPEZoO]

I guess I figure that most decent car vs decent moto operational costs are in about the same ballpark. The moto may be a bit cheaper per mile on average. But, if you have the moto as an extra vehicle to reduce per mile costs, against a reasonably economical car, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

You are paying ins. and depreciation on two vehicles instead of one, and there is no way a couple of cents a mile makes up for that.

 

Against a large truck, the numbers work better, don't know which is the better overall way to go.

 

But in general, car to moto, the moto only makes economic sense if it is a sole vehicle. Obviously any specific case may differ, beater moto to luxury car may work out differently.

 

And don't forget that the gear I have is worth more than the retail value of the bike I'm riding

 

I think you are right though. It almost never makes sense to actively buy a 2nd commuter vehicle (bike or car) with the thoughts of saving money. I know in my situation, it was more like this. These are the vehicles that I currently own and are avaiable for me to drive. Everything is payed off except the Jeep (at 0% APR). I don't believe in depreciation because I drive everything till the wheels fall off. How can I spend the least amount of money out of my paycheck each day/week/month/year to get to work. When gas went through the roof, I was saving over $250 a month by riding my bike Vs. driving my Jeep. Thats a BIG number

[Twisties]

I guess I figure that most decent car vs decent moto operational costs are in about the same ballpark. The moto may be a bit cheaper per mile on average. But, if you have the moto as an extra vehicle to reduce per mile costs, against a reasonably economical car, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

You are paying ins. and depreciation on two vehicles instead of one, and there is no way a couple of cents a mile makes up for that.

 

Against a large truck, the numbers work better, don't know which is the better overall way to go.

 

But in general, car to moto, the moto only makes economic sense if it is a sole vehicle. Obviously any specific case may differ, beater moto to luxury car may work out differently.

 

And don't forget that the gear I have is worth more than the retail value of the bike I'm riding

 

I think you are right though. It almost never makes sense to actively buy a 2nd commuter vehicle (bike or car) with the thoughts of saving money. I know in my situation, it was more like this. These are the vehicles that I currently own and are avaiable for me to drive. Everything is payed off except the Jeep (at 0% APR). I don't believe in depreciation because I drive everything till the wheels fall off. How can I spend the least amount of money out of my paycheck each day/week/month/year to get to work. When gas went through the roof, I was saving over $250 a month by riding my bike Vs. driving my Jeep. Thats a BIG number

 

That's about where we are now: 2002 Maxima, 2002 Tacoma, 2003 Miata, pair of 2007 RTs, all paid for and all pretty much past their heavy depreciation periods. The 2009 F650GS might still be taking some depreciation hit, but it wasn't bought for economical reasons, nor was the Miata, or any of the other bikes. We called them expenses.

 

One thing with multiple vehicles, the miles per vehicle per year tend to drop. Therefore the insurance cost per mile go up, as does depreciation (another way of looking at the fact that you are paying for multiple vehicles). I'm not doing the math, but for us, the F 650 GS probably has the lowest cost per mile of any of our vehicles when you look at out of pocket expenses, and the highest when you look at total expenses. Just musings.

 

[Marty Hill]

You own a truck?

 

Yes, he has a truck and I've gone to lunch in it!

 

Hey Tom/see you this summer.

 

I'll be here!

 

I was getting coffee the other morning at Philz and thought it would be funny if I ran into you.

 

I do miss Philz/he is a real interesting guy/great coffee shop!

[moshe_levy]

Where it starts looking bad for the bike is if you factor dealer service costs in. My car and my RT get about the same fuel economy and cost about the same to insure here in NJ (don't ask). But whereas the car's services (every 5k) cost $39.95 with a "major" service every 30k ($225), the bike's services cost $300 every 6k. Factor in worn tires every 12k (vs. car at 60k) and the car is easily the frugal choice.

 

Of course I don't ride the bike to save or spend - I do it for fun. Just sayin' it's not economical in my case.

 

I used to do all my own service for many years, but these days with the job requirements and young kids, if I have 2 minutes free to myself, I want to ride, not to wrench.

 

-MKL

[AviP]

I guess I figure that most decent car vs decent moto operational costs are in about the same ballpark. The moto may be a bit cheaper per mile on average. But, if you have the moto as an extra vehicle to reduce per mile costs, against a reasonably economical car, I think you are fooling yourself.

 

You are paying ins. and depreciation on two vehicles instead of one, and there is no way a couple of cents a mile makes up for that.

 

Against a large truck, the numbers work better, don't know which is the better overall way to go.

 

But in general, car to moto, the moto only makes economic sense if it is a sole vehicle. Obviously any specific case may differ, beater moto to luxury car may work out differently.

 

And don't forget that the gear I have is worth more than the retail value of the bike I'm riding

 

I think you are right though. It almost never makes sense to actively buy a 2nd commuter vehicle (bike or car) with the thoughts of saving money. I know in my situation, it was more like this. These are the vehicles that I currently own and are avaiable for me to drive. Everything is payed off except the Jeep (at 0% APR). I don't believe in depreciation because I drive everything till the wheels fall off. How can I spend the least amount of money out of my paycheck each day/week/month/year to get to work. When gas went through the roof, I was saving over $250 a month by riding my bike Vs. driving my Jeep. Thats a BIG number

If that's the 5.7L Hemi in the Jeep, get ready for maintenance shock at the 30K mark. I do my own maintenance and repairs, but that V8 takes 16 spark plugs and the back 4 cylinders are way back under the dashboard in my RAM. It's a knuckle-skinning, Chrysler-cursing, beer-binging, 4 hour+ job. And even if I give it to the dealer, I have no way of knowing if they actually did the job.

[OoPEZoO]

If that's the 5.7L Hemi in the Jeep, get ready for maintenance shock at the 30K mark. I do my own maintenance and repairs, but that V8 takes 16 spark plugs and the back 4 cylinders are way back under the dashboard in my RAM. It's a knuckle-skinning, Chrysler-cursing, beer-binging, 4 hour+ job. And even if I give it to the dealer, I have no way of knowing if they actually did the job.

 

Nope......we got the 4.7L. It was hard as hell to find one with the options we wanted (everything but the Hemi), but we managed to pull it off. I have a 3.8L V6 in my 2-door Wrangler and it is an underpowered pig. I can't imagine that motor in a Grand Cherokee. The 4.7L V8 was rated the exact same MPG as the 3.7L V6, so we went that route.

 

The 4.7L also has the 16 spark plugs, but only 8 get replaced at 30k. They others aren't called out till 100K. The rest is just general drop and fill fluids.

[OlGeezer]

You're right about the Ninja 250, but I would get bored really quick.

 

My solution? Similar to Keith, I'm not worried about the rate of depreciation. If I gave my bike away right now, the depreciation rate would be eleven cents per mile. If I got $3k for it, it drops to less than 9 cents per mile. Regarding commuting, I live two miles from work and haven't lived more than 5 miles from work in the last 28 years. Personally, I would rather buy a bike new and keep it forever than save a couple of thou by buying a used bike. Of course, I wouldn't be against doing both.

[Rocer]

So, I'd like to understand what we're reading here in the way of vehicle costs per mile related to what we are seeing private business, gov't agencies etc. paying in mileage rates and how those rates are rationalized / explained. (See what you've started Boney!)

 

The last number I heard for our school board was something like $.45/km which translates, if I'm doing this correctly, $.72/mi. At the other end of the scale our local municipal gov't has discontinued paying mileage expenses to councillors (coincidentally they then voted themselves a raise equivalent to typical annual mileage expenses). In private business I believe mileage rates are more like $.35/km or $.56/mi.

[tallman]

Apples to oranges.

 

Cost of operation versus cost of ownership.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

So, I'd like to understand what we're reading here in the way of vehicle costs per mile related to what we are seeing private business, gov't agencies etc. paying in mileage rates and how those rates are rationalized / explained.

 

For vehicles used for business purposes, the United States IRS allows a deduction of 51 cents per mile, which works out to 32 cents per kilometer.

Whereas Tom has accounted for gas, tires and routine maintenance costs, the IRS's number likely also accounts for insurance and depreciation. Depreciation costs on a vehicle during the first five years of its life overwhelm all the other costs. Tom came up with 13 cents per mile for his RT, but if you factor in insurance and depreciation, the total cost ends up being more like 30 cents per mile. My car comes out to 44 cents per mile, and if you're driving an expensive car/SUV, the per-mile cost may exceed the IRS-allowed deduction by a substantial amount.

 

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

It's insightful to see these analogues. However, my primary goal is "SMILES PER MILE". My R1200RT wins hands down!!! :)

 

Dave

[Rocer]

I'm with you Dave.

 

I've never even considered trying to calculate operation / ownership costs. It's the fun that counts.

 

However, seeing as our Revenue Agency (Mitch, thanks for pointing me in that direction) allows $.52 / km ( $.83/mi) I'm trying to figure out how to build ladder racks on the RT.