....and then there was my brother... and he wants to get his first bike...

[Twisties]

He is about 48 yoa, has vision in only one eye (but does well with it), and likes fast cars. A long time Camaro SS owner, he says he wants a Harley Davidson Sportster Superlow. He has a very strong "Made In America" ethic. I think he is about 5'10" or 5'11' and looks a lot like me. He also has my bad back and bad neck. He lives near Matt and Danny in JAX.

 

What do ya'll think of the Superlow idea for him, and what bikes would you suggest that he consider? Feel free to comment on any other aspects besides the actual bike choice that you feel you would advise your brother. Be nice, he might look in on the thread, or even register and post.

 

TIA

[cruisin]

Speaking from the view of someone who used to teach back rehab and as a trained exercise physiologist (M.S. degree); any of the bikes with a feet forward control configuration is not a good choice for someone with back and neck problems. The ergonomics are all wrong. He needs to look at bikes that will lean him slightly forward at the waist with his feet closer up under his butt and hands down lower than most of the HDs or other V-twin cruiser style bikes. The V-rod would be his best choice in the HD line-up and probably the best bike they produce. I've seen pictures of V-rods equipped with a Road-Glide fairing and full luggage; they look great.

 

If you can get him to consider something other than HD, there are many fine choices in touring and sport-touring bikes. The new BMW 1600 is one with the R1200RT being right at the top for good choices of being ergnonmically sound.

 

just my $0.02 worth

[Jim Moore]

Does he have an endorsement? I teach the MSF class here in Jax. I'll PM you the info if you're interested.

[bobbybob]

I agree about the feet-forward position--bad even if your back is OK, BTDT. And I think he'll tire of the sportster quickly. A plain old Dyna Super Glide with the normal footpeg placement is great, almost like an RT seating, but of course the seat is much lower to the ground. Had one of those and liked it.

 

And there is also a low rider Dyna option. It may come standard with forward pegs but they can be reverted to normal. The twin rear shocks on the Dyna have "decent" travel--much better than the Sporty. I never liked the Softail models suspension. It felt more like a hard-tail.

[Quinn]

looks a lot like me. He also has my bad back and bad neck. He lives near Matt and Danny in JAX.

 

 

Goes by the name of "Lucky"?

 

 

Harley advantage is low seat, low end grunt, flat footing, and a chick magnet or peer prestige. Handling not really an issue in Fla. I guess; except parking lot maneuvers and traffic light to light idling speed. When he's ready to get out of state, he'll be ready for other bikes.

 

----

[Twisties]

Does he have an endorsement? I teach the MSF class here in Jax. I'll PM you the info if you're interested.

 

He has said he will take the class, but so far as I know has not looked into it yet. Please pm the info and I will get it to him. Thanks!

[OoPEZoO]

looks a lot like me. He also has my bad back and bad neck. He lives near Matt and Danny in JAX.

 

 

Goes by the name of "Lucky"?

 

......Thanks Bob, needed a good chuckle to go with my morning coffee.

 

Jan, I wouldn't worry about the vision thing too much. My dad lost the use of his left eye when he was in his mid 20's (always wear safety glasses!). He has ridden motorcycles pretty much his whole life, and I don't see any adverse effects from it when we ride together. If he can function normally without the vision in one eye, then he will adapt to riding just like he would anything else. My dad rides a 1500 Goldwing and usually pulls a trailer on long trips. He can't quite keep up with me on the RT, but he can certainly hold his own. He has the skill, but he also has floor boards

 

Is your brother thinking of buying a nice weekend toy for morning rides, or thinking about larger plans of potentially traveling? You couldn't pay me enough to travel on a Sportster frame, but then again, I'm built like a gorilla and find my RT on the border line of too cramped

[Whip]

I bought Louise an 883 L....it was a very cheap under powered toy of a bike.

 

 

The 1200 would be much better.

 

 

 

 

[Rob L]

He has a very strong "Made In America" ethic.

 

Try tO find ANY vehicle made in America..........

Look at the fuel system, electrics, brakes, suspension, controls, etc. Assembled in America with some US made parts is what we get

 

Back on subject, my son-in-law wanted to learn to ride 2 years ago. I taught him the basics in 4 sessions never leaving an empty parking lot. He then took the novice riders course and earned his endorsement. He fell several times in the process and was in a bad accident this past July. He is the young father of my grandchildren and chose wisely to let the motorcycle riding wait until the kids get older. They need dad more than he needs a bike. I have long ago stopped encouraging people to ride. I KNOW that it is dangerous, mainly because people are no longer focused on driving. Too many distractions make riding very dangerous. Those that insist on riding, I encourage taking the course, reading David Hough, and I spend time explaining the hazards represented by inattentive drivers of 4 wheeled vehicles. MHO

[hopz]

Jan, I agree that the ergonomics comments are accurate, but if he likes Harley it will not really be a show stopper.

 

I also agree that the 1200 engine in the Sportster is a better choice than the 883. The Low model is cute and low, but will give up a good bit of suspension to to gain that last inch or so of visual appeal.

 

The other good thing is that the market and availability of used Sportsters is large since it is convenient entry bike for the brand. If, and it is a big IF, he intends to join the ranks of riders and do it for a long time the better (in my opinion) choice is to get one of the larger frame Harleys... not touring but standard size. Soft tails are attractive but I prefer those with conventional rear shocks. On the used market he will pay about the same as a Sportster but have much more of a motorcycle.

 

Take a look at the Dyna Super Glide Custom. That is a real Harley in anyone's book and he will not be considered a "newbie"... I have no data but just a seasoned experience... if he gets a Sportster he will grow out of it in 6 months.

 

Sportsters have two target markets... the first is the new rider entry point and the other is the experienced rider who has a sporty for "fun rides". My guess is that the first group is about 4 times the second. In other words, if he does not like being considered a newbie, he will feel better in the long run on a Dyna. But, if he's just interested in finding out if this is a sport for him, the Sportster will do the job.

 

As for learning to ride... yes he ought to. Harley dealers have a course called Riders Edge which is sorta kinda like a watered down MSF course. Far better than nothing but not as intimidating.

 

[David13]

My recommendation, if he is certain that he wants to do it, is, get an old bike. Some cheap old bike and learn to ride.

Not a new Harley.

That way if he drops it 5 or 10 times, you can strongly encourage him to give it up, if he doesn't want to himself.

And there is no great financial investment to make him feel compelled to stay with it.

Then, if he does stay with it, he can shop for a bike that fits him. And he will know what it is.

It always reminds me of a kid who wants to learn to play the guitar, what thinks he has to start out with a Martin.

The important part is knowing how to ride a bike.

dc

[upflying]

By the time you reach 48, you are pretty set in your ways. You have a lot of bad habits, opinions and regrettably, set in stone senses, equilibrium and judgement. In otherwords, older folks are harder to teach. IMO, the best riders are the ones who jumped on a 100cc dirt bike at age 12 and never stopped riding.

Not saying you can't teach older people how to ride, just expect stubbornness and onryness. Tell your brother to get a beater bike to learn on, work your way up to a new Harley once safe and proficient.

[Matts_12GS]

Jan,

 

I have a friend who sells for the bar and shield who is probably as knowledgeable on things America VTwin as anyone in town. He's a gear and training advocate with a gift for helping people. I'm pretty sure you have my contact info from other stuff, feel free to send it to your bro.

 

I know a few folks selling them as well and will be glad to help him evaluate deals, etc. I am the same age as he is and am willing to help wherever I can.

[Knifemaker]

Jan there are a bunch of us here in Jax. that would be willing to help any way we can just let us know...

[RockBottom]

The V-rod would be his best choice in the HD line-up and probably the best bike they produce.

 

You would seriously recommend an $18,000 115 HP motorcycle for a beginner? Wow.

[RockBottom]

f you can get him to consider something other than HD, there are many fine choices in touring and sport-touring bikes. The new BMW 1600 is one with the R1200RT being right at the top for good choices of being ergnonmically sound.

 

just my $0.02 worth

 

Or a $22,000 160 HP touring motorcycle as a first bike? Just wow.

[cruisin]

You would seriously recommend an $18,000 115 HP motorcycle for a beginner? Wow.

 

Or a $22,000 160 HP touring motorcycle as a first bike? Just wow.

 

oops; I got focused on the back problems and ergonomics and sort of overlooked that "first bike" part in the title of the thread. It would indeed be far better to start with the MSF class; get a small-ish bike between 350 and 500 that is lighter weght. Once accustomed to that for several thousand miles (and I do mean several -- like 20K or more) then move on to a larger bike that will meet his needs and not grow old too quickly.

[Flash9677]

You can find a nice Buell Blast for a resonable price. American made, light and a great beginner bike.

[Twisties]

You would seriously recommend an $18,000 115 HP motorcycle for a beginner? Wow.

 

Or a $22,000 160 HP touring motorcycle as a first bike? Just wow.

 

oops; I got focused on the back problems and ergonomics and sort of overlooked that "first bike" part in the title of the thread. It would indeed be far better to start with the MSF class; get a small-ish bike between 350 and 500 that is lighter weght. Once accustomed to that for several thousand miles (and I do mean several -- like 20K or more) then move on to a larger bike that will meet his needs and not grow old too quickly.

 

I too am concerned about the ergos with his back and neck, and well I know the matter myself.

 

Sharon and I have suggested that he look at a used Suzuki V-Strom 650. I think the ergos on the little Wee are pretty good, based on my one ride on one a couple of years ago. My concerns with the Wee are that it is still too much bike for him, and that he won't look at any non-USA labels.

 

Are there any of the Buells or any other US bikes that are comparable to the Wee?

 

My suggestions to him are:

 

Good ergos,

<$5k

<500 lbs, and preferably closer to 400 lbs

40-70 hp

good lights a plus, or plan on adding them on (he works nights, so I presume will ride at night more than most)

 

The Wee is what came to mind that fit.

 

We also suggested any of the BMW 650 singles, and maybe one of the Triumphs.

 

A very good question as to what his riding plans/goals are. I think he works with a bunch of HD riders and I think he wants to join them in local riding, but I haven't had a chance to ask. Still, I have urged him to ride something else for six months to a year, and then get the HD and join them. I have hopes that we will eventually get him out here to ride to Torrey or Yellowstone with us, and fear he won't learn what he needs to on a cruiser.

 

I don't like newbies riding with experienced riders to begin with, and I really don't like newbies on big strong heavy bikes.

 

We started on cruisers, and I regretted it. Maybe it was just us, but I found the cruisers (Suzuki Boulevard C-50's) to be sloppy handling, poor braking, and heavy. The vibrations were awful, and we were beat to a pulp after a 200 mile day ride. I wanted a mouth guard. We put 3k miles on the cruisers in 3 yrs, compared to 50k miles on the RTs in the same time period.

 

I have suggested to him that the first bike is not the career bike, that he can get out of a used bike for about what he paid for it, that he IS going to drop his first bike some, and it should either be something he doesn't mind seeing a few dings on (his cars are kept immaculate), or something cheap to fix.

 

Oh, and on final comment: We are still chuckling over "Calls himself 'Lucky.'" :-) Good one!

 

 

[Twisties]

Does that little Superlow have enough ground clearance? On our cruisers we regularly scraped hard parts in city riding, once almost levering the rear wheel off the ground.

[Twisties]

You can find a nice Buell Blast for a resonable price. American made, light and a great beginner bike.

 

Cross posted with you, was just asking about the Buells.

 

I looked up the Blast but didn't find any images with riders on it. How is the riding position? Looks like a potential good choice, thanks.

[OoPEZoO]

The Buell Blast has a very upright standard riding position. The Harley Plant here in York uses a small fleet of them for all of their beginner's riding training. I bounced around the parking lot on one when they first came out, but don't have any real riding experience on one. They are built cheap, underpowered, will survive a few mild drops, and the motors are damn near bulletproof from what I understand. Sounds like a good option for him to check out.

[tobyzusa]

Jan, I know others will disagree, but the Sportster is one of the poorest handling bikes I've ever ridden. I would NOT recommend it to anyone I cared about. Did he beat you up as a kid?

[RockBottom]

The "US made only" really limits the rider to either a used Blast (since they stopped making them) or something that is so big and heavy that he's virtually certain to ding it up. If you can get him off of the US idea at least for his first six months or year, there are a wide range of options. The Triumph Bonnevilles have a very relaxed riding position. The Honda Shadow RS is also nice.

[Twisties]

Jan, I know others will disagree, but the Sportster is one of the poorest handling bikes I've ever ridden. I would NOT recommend it to anyone I cared about. Did he beat you up as a kid?

 

It's what he told me he wanted.... I beat him up every time he tried to beat me up, and probably a few times when he didn't... I was 3 years older. He had a rough childhood, and I am not proud of it. We get along well now though. He is forgiving.

 

 

[dhanson]

I don't like the sportster class, too stiff. Very small power range.

 

I would recommend the dyna glide, several models, and most come with standard pegs and controls.

 

Having one eye, he will not be able to judge distance so making entering curves at proper speed will be an issue. My mate did fine when following me, but alone, she suffered from lack of depth perception problems with the curves.

[Huzband]

Find him a decent old Harley Sprint 250 or 350. Just don't tell him they were made in Italy.

[RockBottom]

Find him a decent old Harley Sprint 250 or 350. Just don't tell him they were made in Italy.

 

[K9_RN]

I think Victory is made in USA. I know nothing of cost or models. Just a thought.

[Paul Mihalka]

"Having one eye, he will not be able to judge distance so making entering curves at proper speed will be an issue. My mate did fine when following me, but alone, she suffered from lack of depth perception problems with the curves."

 

Wrong assumption. I have a eye defect. Lousy coordination between the two eyes. If I would look with both eyes, I would have a variable double vision. Tested by ophthalmologists. So my brain shuts out the vision of one eye or the other. I can switch, but never look with both eyes. I have lousy depth perception for a short distance. To pour from a bottle into a glass I have to rest the bottle onto the glass. Longer distance no problem. For that the brain uses other indicators, size of object, movement of object, etc. The distance between the eyes is too short for good telemetry.

I was quite successful in motorcycle racing. Anecdote: To get employed by a large corporation (Venezuelan Exxon) I had to pass medical testing. The old fogy doctor declared that if I would have to drive regularly company cars he would reject me because of my eye defect. I told him about my racing past. No change of opinion. I asked him that if he had a job applicant for messenger service from somebody with a peg leg, would he reject? Yes, of course! And if the candidate shows that he won marathon races with the peg leg? No comment...

 

Your riding mate's problem was probably not the one eye, just a reasonable excuse. With some training to look for the "vanishing point" she probably would have done all right.

[RockBottom]

I think Victory is made in USA. I know nothing of cost or models. Just a thought.

 

But like Harley, Victory doesn't make anything in the medium displacement range. So it would be the same dilemma--dropping something really expensive.

[dhanson]

Paul you are the exception, and my mate is my wife. She has strabismas, brain only uses information from one eye. Very difficult to catch a frissbe, ball, any activity that requires depth perception. Yes, humans have very good depth perception with two eyes that work. One eye will not be show stopper, but depth perception, I would not like to do without!

 

She did get to where no one could tell it, riding behind me, but we found that alone, she was much slower. Course she did not have any MC background.

 

P.S. She cannot switch between her eyes, can only use the right eye. But just recently, a doctor measured and fitted her with prism glasses which she uses around the house, but has difficulty moving around. They focus both eyes together on subject.

[Twisties]

Paul you are the exception, and my mate is my wife. She has strabismas, brain only uses information from one eye. Very difficult to catch a frissbe, ball, any activity that requires depth perception. Yes, humans have very good depth perception with two eyes that work. One eye will not be show stopper, but depth perception, I would not like to do without!

 

She did get to where no one could tell it, riding behind me, but we found that alone, she was much slower. Course she did not have any MC background.

 

His eye was injured when he was 3-4 yoa. He has grown up with the problem and is adept enough that I can not ascertain any dysfunction. My best guess, based on what has been said here is that it won't be an issue for him.

 

I don't know when Jean's problem began, or if was life long. It is clearly a different issue however, as my brother's issue is, essentially, no vision in the eye at all. Paul's also seems different.

[dhanson]

Interesting, Jean's problem is similar to Paul's but she cannot switch eyes, but brain only uses right eye. Yes, from birth, no one corrected when young with patch. 20/30, but they are so far off, that the brain discounts the left vision.

 

For you brother, probably will be okay, since he has been driving a good while.

[Paul Mihalka]

I didn't know the clinical name, but I just read up on strabismus and that is exactly what I have. As a kid I was cross-eyed. I had the lazy eye that was corrected by using atropin drops in the active eye to dull it's vision to force the lazy eye to work. A patch would have done the same, except a kid can take the patch off. Too bad is was not corrected in your lady's childhood.

I would still suggest a serious effort when riding to look as far ahead as possible, the vanishing point, really looking ahead to where she wants to be.

[JustJean]

I have strabismus, loss of muscle control, and one other thingy I can't remember something to do with lateral movement. I trained 2 young doctors on my last visit to the specialist. What fun, not. Trying to see far off causes my eye to jump. Right now I use my right eye to see forward (mono vision ) but I do use my left eye for peripheral all the time. I never saw double vision? Doc said some how my brain compensated early in life.

 

The main concern now is not to lose the peripheral vision in my left eye.