AndyS Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Currently working on someones R1100RT. He was riding steady 65/70mph, and the bike just died. Fuel pump runs briefly (approx 2 seconds), then stops. (as expected). We have checked all fuses. Have checked correct installation of relays. We have Checked the coil (0.5ohm primary, 6.8K ohm secondary) We have a sparks. We have checked the HES out, and it's good. Sidestand switch OK Clutch switch OK Neutral switch OK Removed injectors and although they do squirt, it isn't masses and will only moisten a sheet of paper when directed at it from about 6". We have removed intake stubs and squirted Carb cleaner into one side, then cranked bike. It runs briefly. So, any easy ways to check fuel delivery side of things with ne pressure measuring equipment? How much pressure should the fuel pump deliver? I am wondering if we can run the fuel mump and see how quickly it fills a given size container. Andy Link to comment
oldyam Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 3 bar ( 43.5 psi ) @ 110 litres / hour from the BMW manual good luck Link to comment
eddd Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 The pressure you describe is way below what you should be seeing coming from the injectors. Checking to see how fast the pump will fill a container isn't a good idea. The pressure and volume from a good pump at a disconnected hose is substantial. You'll have lots fuel spraying everywhere if you are not careful. If you've gone to the trouble of disconnecting a fuel line, your best course of action is to measure pressure with a gauge. I had to replace a fuel pump this summer, but the bike didn't just suddenly die. I was able to ride it home (over 1,000 miles) where I found the pump only had about 14-15 psi. As mentioned, a clogged screen or filter is a possibilty if the last fill contained comtaminated fuel. Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Man, that sure sounds like a HES problem. How did you check it? What year bike? How many miles? I might replace the HES anyway, just to be sure. Link to comment
dan cata Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 3 bar ( 43.5 psi ) @ 110 litres / hour from the BMW manual good luck Actually, the pump delivers 3.5 bars. The fuel pressure regulator keeps it down to 3. There's no point in installing a 3 bar regulator on a 3 bar buel pump, and this is the same pump that K bikes use, and the K bikes have a 3.5 bar fuel pressure regulator. My tip: drain the tank Most probabbly water in it Dan. Link to comment
cruisin Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 My '98 suddenly quit while cruising down the road one day a couple of years ago. I discovered that it had blown a fuel line off the pump. (my fault because I had just re-routed lines to put the filter outside the tank and did not get one of the clamps sufficiently tight). That said, I wonder if it may have a split line inside the tank that is allowing most of the pressure to escape back inside (or somewhere else?) rather than delivering it to the injectors? Link to comment
Uncle Beemer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Sounds like an electrical problem. Link to comment
AndyS Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Man, that sure sounds like a HES problem. How did you check it? What year bike? How many miles? I might replace the HES anyway, just to be sure The HES and lead looked really good and tested out fine with my HES test box. So he was out of the equation. Maybe a clogged fuel filter? Never known of one clog, but this one had been replaced less than 2000 miles ago (fault diagnosis clue). My tip: drain the tank Most probably water in it We were pretty sure it wasn't that as the fuel filter had been replaced and the tank completely empted and cleaned less than 2000 miles ago. 3 bar ( 43.5 psi ) @ 110 litres / hour from the BMW manual good luck Thanks for that. As I said, I haven't got a pressure gauge, but the fuel flow rate is very useful. This baby was only delivering about 30 L/h and for sure with nothing like 3 bar. There is the direction we should head in. My '98 suddenly quit while cruising down the road one day a couple of years ago. I discovered that it had blown a fuel line off the pump. (my fault because I had just re-routed lines to put the filter outside the tank and did not get one of the clamps sufficiently tight). That said, I wonder if it may have a split line inside the tank that is allowing most of the pressure to escape back inside (or somewhere else?) rather than delivering it to the injectors? And there sir, you have it. After checking the fuel delivery we really knew it was something inside the tank. Tank pump assembly removed and the culprit was the hose from the fuel filter. The clamp had come adrift and the hose was off. Popped the line back on. Took the 'O' ring indoors and spent some time with a hair dryer getting the 'O' ring to shrink back to size, success. Tank pump unit refitted. Hung tank back on, hit the starter and first push...vroom. Yeharr. left it running a while. Did a quick TB balance, then tupperware back on. Job's a good'n So thanks to everyone's input. Most helpful Andy Link to comment
oldyam Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 [quote=dan cata Actually, the pump delivers 3.5 bars. The fuel pressure regulator keeps it down to 3. There's no point in installing a 3 bar regulator on a 3 bar buel pump, and this is the same pump that K bikes use, and the K bikes have a 3.5 bar fuel pressure regulator. Dan. Hi Dan Dont know about the K bike application as I have no experience of that. However I must disagree with you there, a pump without a pressure regulator of some sort generates no pressure other than that created by the resistance to flow in the pipework ( bends / amount of lift ). So a regulator or calibrated orifice is required ( even with a 3 bar pump on a 3 bar system ) to create the pressure in the system which is required to provide the correct spray pattern and flow under operational circumstances to give correct combustion. Link to comment
eddd Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Glad you got it fixed, but... How did a hair dryer shrink the o-ring? Link to comment
Boffin Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Glad you got it fixed, but... How did a hair dryer shrink the o-ring? The O-ring swells when in contact with petrol (or in contact with gas in the USA). Heating the o-ring drives out the petrol, so the o-ring shrinks back to its non-swollen size. Andy Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Good job. I LOVE a happy ending. I always forget to mention that issue. It happens occasionally. Link to comment
eddd Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Glad you got it fixed, but... How did a hair dryer shrink the o-ring? The O-ring swells when in contact with petrol (or in contact with gas in the USA). Heating the o-ring drives out the petrol, so the o-ring shrinks back to its non-swollen size. Andy Got it. When I first read this it seemed that using the hair dryer was defying physics. Link to comment
dan cata Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 You are probably right. Even with a 3 bar pump you should have a 3 bar regulator, perhaps the pump delivers 3 bar @ 12V and 3.2 bar at 13.8V, for example. Anyway, bottom line is that our bikes have a 3.5 bar pump and a 3 bar FPR. Dan. Link to comment
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