Pit Bull

[4wheeldog]

I told the original story of the drowned Pit. I did not see it as humorous.......I told it because it made to point about SOME Pit owner being irresponsible and, frankly, not very bright.

Regardless of breed, I would have been in the water after any dog that I owned or was responsible for. If the dog had been of a breed that I felt was likely not to react badly to an attempt to help it, I would have been in the water. But my wife and kids would have been pissed at me if I died attempting to save a dog that has a good shot at killing me in the process. Remember, the owner was (By appearance) someone who likely had not raised the dog well.

 

Different subject, but to make my point.......Several years ago, I took the ride across the lake at the Grand Tetons with a buddy while on a MC tour. While sitting on the dock, waiting for the boat for the return trip, a couple of small kids were getting a bit rowdy. I was concerned that they might fall in the (Very cold) water, so I said something to their Mother. My buddy (Who does not have kids) asked my why I was concerned, since they were not my kids. My answer was, "I don't care whose kids they are, I will probably be the first one in the water after them, and that water is COLD!" If it had been some punk teenager that was in danger of falling in, I would not be as likely to attempt a rescue. Drowning punks tend to climb up on top of your head and drown you, when you try ot save them. DAMHIK.

[K9_RN]

This is a great discussion. Having worked with dogs on a daily basis for the last 22 years and having owned dogs for my entire life (I was raised in a home that was never without a dog), I feel like I can put forth a few of the ideas I have had over the years.

 

I want to, but cant agree with banning specific breeds. I want to because it seems like a simple answer to the problem. I cant because I know it is not the answer. Just like certain nationalities in people are associated with certain behaviors (given my Irish heritage, am I assumed to like to drink a lot at the pub and sing and ramble on endlessly?). I believe people are the problem. Dogs are animals and can never be 100% predicable (just as in humans). Owing a dog that was bred to serve man (which is why dogs were bred specifically) as a guardian or protector of flock and family or property, one must realize the inherent traits of such an animal. As some one pointed out earlier, a Lab can be a guard dog and a Pit Bull type can retrieve, but it will take some doing. There is always a chance that an animal might just be born a little umm, not right, and there may be no other choice but to euthanize that animal. I think it happens in people too, the ones that kill other people or commit horrible crimes with seemingly no remorse, they are just born different, in my opinion.

 

I love my dogs more than I love the humans in my life. Im not sure what that says about me and the people around me, but unfortunately it is true. I also realize that dogs are not human, they are not children, and should not be treated as such. They react to subtle body language and eye contact (or lack thereof) mostly. This is why children are often the victim of bites and why the face is often the target. When people are happy and meet each other they look into each others eyes (a challenge to a dog), walk directly towards one another (a challenge to a dog), outstretch arms (not exactly sure what a dog thinks of this), hug each other (a very terrifying experience for a dog, to give up all control to someone they may not trust 100%), then a kiss! (dog sees mouthful of smiling teeth, a definite threat and then you lung at them with your teeth!! OMG! Dog thinks: I must defend myself before I an eaten.) Dog bites and the euthanasia debate begins.

 

OK, this may be slightly dramatic but, I hope I have non offensively given another point of view. Dogs see things differently than humans. Humans dont always get the clues. Some breeds (Chow Chows, Akitas, Pits, German Sheps, Chihuahuas, Min Pins, just to name a few) dont give much if any warning. Usually they become very quiet and still with head down, just before they attack. If a dog is vocalizing (growling, barking...) he is giving you fair warning.

 

As far as solving the problem for children (and people in general) that are terrorized by aggressive dogs, Im not good at politics. I think the leash law and other laws designed to make people responsible for their pets (and themselves) are a good idea, maybe needing enforcement?? The if you cant insure it you cant have it thing sounds like having money after the incident will make it better. I think not. The goal being prevention. And the owner pays nothing (except premiums), the insurance company loses, no lesson learned. Just my thoughts on that one.

 

Sorry so long winded, Kelly.

[scout6]

Sorry. I was responding to the follow on quote, who was not there, but felt it was humorous.

 

"That's hilarious. Let's take up a collection to buy those collars for every pit bull!"

[Twisties]

There is evidence that pit bulls and rottweilers are more responsible for deaths. But the argument advanced by advocacy groups is likely worth consideration: at 16 dog related deaths a year there are too few to base policy on this outcome. The issue is attacks, which are far greater in number and far costlier overall. There is no evidence that pit bulls or rottweilers are more prone to attack. They are however, strong and powerful and capable of serious damage.

 

That is the argument ones sees. It has some weight. I have more thoughts:

 

As has been alluded to: The correlation between breed and fatalities does not demonstrate causation. Factors other than a greater predilection towards violence may explain the outcome. As has been mentioned, lately the trend towards "bad guys" having pits as bad boy dogs, their use and training for fights, and forms of abuse seem to be more prevalent for these breeds. So even if they attack more often, it may have nothing at all to do with the breed, and everything to do with ownership trends, which have changed, as has been pointed out.

 

I think too it is important to look at who gets hurt, and how. Most injuries from dog attacks are not on adult males in their prime. Those of us here, with the strength and agility to ride big motorcycles are not likely to be injured by a dog. We are quite capable of defending ourselves. Rather it's young children and the frail elderly who suffer.

 

Even small dogs can be dangerous. One reads of babies killed or injured by small dogs all the time.

 

Dogs are most dangerous when running in packs. Dogs in packs will exhibit aggressive behavior and react according to pack rules. Defending against a pack attack is difficult... for that a good gun would be good.

 

These factors need to be considered when establishing dog policies.

[Twisties]

Another dog to think about, if we are going after breed specific policies, is the dobermann. Our neighbor had a mal-trained dobermann that was vicious. She had wanted a guard dog, but didn't have it professionally trained and what she ended up with was a very dangerous animal. We have an 8 foot chain link fence between our properties, and that fence suffered some serious abuse during Alegro's time on this earth.

 

Whenever the dog could see us it would snarl, bark and lunge into the fence, sometimes for hours on end. Even if we were indoors. I remember when we moved in, and I was in the living room, on the phone when the dog saw me. All doors and windows shut. The person on the other end of the line wanted to know what was going on, it was so loud and vicious.

 

Of course, the owner, an elderly woman on her own, was in a complete state of denial. It was a dangerous situation. We finally bullied her into keeping the dog tied up near her home (large yard), which solved at least the immediate annoyance issue, and reduced the danger.

[jjsrt]

I am a dog owner...Jack Russell....people need to be responsible for their pets...clean up after them at home or in public... I trained my Jack from a pup..he does what he is told.. I don't put him in situations where he is panicky or becomes irrational...(like large crowds).he is leashed..he knows his limits and rarely strays beyond them...Although he's Jack Russell (smarter than a lot of bipeds I know) he is still an animal with animal instincts...I have other pets (cats) and they are great together...but my Jack is never left at home without being in his cage..Jack never goes in public buildings (other than the Petco or pet store with a sign saying pets welcome...My point is as a pet owner take the right course of action and responsibility of your pet..Its a privilege not a right to own a pet...Don't abuse it..Think of others as well.. a lady came up to my truck the other day and saw my Jack sitting on my lap...she started to reach into my vehicle to pet him..I told her to stop.. he maybe cute but he is still has teeth...and she still tried to pet him..She got kinda pissy at me for not allowing her access to my dog..I told her to go away I know my dog would have been startled by someone he didn't know we avoided the problem by being pro active to the situation...Jacks are hi strung..Pits are at a higher level..I have know a few pits but never saw someone able to completely control one..We use extreme caution around that breed.. our county says if you dog bites someone he going away for awhile or to be put down. Hard but necessary. Just my 2 cents, L8tr jjsrt

[beemerman2k]

Would I trust them around kids? Yup. Do I trust the kids around them. Nope. They did not work with my assigned group of children last year due to the children, not the dogs.

 

:confused:

 

...due to the children, not the dogs? Care to elaborate?

 

Sorry to break up the peace on this topic after so many great posts, and especially after jjsrt's final post, which I thought was very well done, but I wanted clarification on this particular sentiment above.

[ericfoerster]

I'm a Pit lover for several reasons. Mine was an awesome dog, but I didn't carry her around in public. 2 bites in her life and both were human error. One was kid who ran screaming at my son. She thought he was in trouble and she bit the other kid once on the arm and ran and sat by my kid. The other she bit a grown man who was sitting in the living room telling a story. He jumped out his chair telling his story and he started towards my mother with his hands raised. Another quick bite and she went and sat by mother.

We don't know her history because the Pit was a rescue. She was a bit shy and really protective of the family. My guess is she felt she owed us.

I'd say in this case the dog owner was foolish for taking dog in public like that. My wife and I will seek another rescue Pit some day just because our experience was a good one. Many dont end as well due to the owners lack of prowess, not the dog. They are a great breed as long as you understand the limitations.

[scout6]

Think sharp things in the hands of kids raised without regard for living creatures. Think of those that have demonstrated the will to harm others. Now, when the dogs bite in retaliation for a pencil stab, what outcome would you expect?

[David13]

A kid even without sharp objects will try to do fun or funny things, like grab the dogs tail, and pull it, or the ear, or the whole dog, and, as you might expect, the dog will not see the humor of it.

James, also earlier I think you asked about the love for the dog, or it will apply to cats as well.

They become part of the family. They become loved, as if a family member, sometimes more so than a family member.

dc