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Lets DIESEL !


Francois_Dumas

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I think the military has a diesel KLR 650, not sure though.

 

It's a Hayes, not a Kawi. American made! See http://www.hayes-dt.com/ I've seen it at the various military trade shows my company attends. Alas, no plans for a civilian version according to the numerous employees I've quizzed at said shows.

 

-MKL

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Francois_Dumas

I talked to the owner. They ARE thinking about it, but fear the regulatory issues and the lack of diesel pumps at regular intervals :)

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I talked to the owner. They ARE thinking about it, but fear the regulatory issues and the lack of diesel pumps at regular intervals :)

 

As for the diesel pumps, just tell them that there are lots of people over here buying electric cars with no infrastructure to support them.

 

---

 

 

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There are plenty of diesel pumps at least around these parts. The issue is they would be too stinky for practical use.

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Yeah right, with diesel at 4 bucks a gallon and all anybody needs is more noisy stinking diesels running around. Give me a break....snap! Around here that is about 40 cents more than premium and still these idiots are buying these big but ugly diesel powered pickup trucks. Me thinks a lot of these folks never took any kind of mathematics in school. Diesel powered motorcycles, jeeez!

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European Diesels are not noisy, stinking things - modern common rail diesels are pretty smooth, powerful and quiet. Diesel Particulate Filters clean up the already non-smoky exhausts.

 

Diesel costs more than regular fuel here ($7.97 per US gallon for regular $8.22 per US gallon for Diesel) but the reduced fuel consumption makes them very popular. I would love a diesel touring bike - I could live with 80-90 miles per imperial gallon, which should be possible from a properly designed diesel bike.

 

Andy

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The question is whether diesel - with its characteristically low redline and clattering sound - mates up with typical weekend pleasure motorcycle desires. I dunno. I don't think so, really. Not many Yanks use motorcycles as workhorses, and a diesel is a workhorse engine, not a thoroughbred.

 

-MKL

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The question is whether diesel - with its characteristically low redline and clattering sound - mates up with typical weekend pleasure motorcycle desires.

 

Should make good Harley engine then? Lot of noise and lot of low down torque :grin:

 

 

Everyone who puts down diesel engines as being low performance workhorse motors should be offered the chance to drive modern European diesel cars. Real-world performance is often better than the gasoline engines of the same "family" can offer.

 

--

Mikko

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In these parts the yahoos like to straight pipe their godawful diesels so they can supposedly get more power output as if a pickup with 800 ftlbs of torque isn't more than enough. I can just imagine a bunch of fools running around on diesel powered harleys. God just help us all we need is noisier Harleys. :mad:

 

Yup, you're right about Europe's diesels being quiet and relatively benign when it comes to odor but it ain't apples and apples. Here abouts diesels are much larger and the fuel is of a poor grade compared to Europe hence noise and foul smelling. A lot more sulfur needs to be removed from the fuel and we need laws passed to make illegal modifications to diesels and their exhaust systems. Oops, didn't mean to sound at all political.

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Diesels are far improved compared to what they used to be, granted, but c'mon, really, do you think you'd really buy a diesel MOTORCYCLE with your actual money? Why?

 

The people at Hayes I spoke to said plainly, there isn't much demand for a civilian version. I think they're right. There isn't. There isn't a compelling reason for a civilian diesel motorcycle, which would likely command a pretty high price premium over a gas version, weigh more, and not have too much functional benefit beyond fuel economy (which, overwhelmingly, most American riders could care less about - see thread in this mileage forum).

 

Re cars, I've driven Europe's good diesels - the new 3 Series for example. Spectacular. But would I want it for any reason other than MPGs vs. the also-spectacular BMW gasoline straight six? The short answer is "no."

 

-MKL

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Gary in Aus

Quote "Re cars, I've driven Europe's good diesels - the new 3 Series for example."

 

I thought the 3 series the worst of the BMW vehicles with a diesel, from my limited experience with BMW diesels the bigger the vehicle the better {absolutely thrashed a 7 series diesel around germany for two weeks a couple of years ago,loved the vehicle}

 

I decided to purchase a diesel car just over a year ago to replace a 2008 Holden Caprice 6 litre V8 and cut the list down to the BMW 5 series ,Mercedes E class and the Audi A6 .

 

Mid size sedans that would hold 4 people comfortably ,a fair amount of luggage and good for long distances .

 

We travel between unit in Canberra , house in Thirroul and farm at Sofala quite a lot.

 

Thiroul to Canberra about 2 1/2 hours.

Canberra to Sofala about 4 hours.

Sofala to Thirroul about 4 hours.

 

Car usually full of something.

 

I have a Holden Rodeo Dual Cab 4wd utility {2009 diesel manual} which is a really good workhorse but falls substantially short on comforts/handling of the car.

 

I decided on the Audi A6 diesel with the CVT transmision and after 12 months am supremely happy with the purchase.

 

I test drove the BMW 3 and 5 series and found them not to the smoothness or quietness of teh Audi and I thought the Benz too much like a chinese taxi.

 

From a standstill there is some turbo lag but you can overcome this by anticipating when you are about to move off.

 

Once moving the torque of the diesel and the smoothness of the CVT ,I can't compare to any other vehicle I have owned.

 

Overtaking at 100 t0 140 kmph is better than previously owned 6 litre Holden Caprice.

 

I have a 2009 Subaru Forester that will soon be replaced and I am looking closely at either the Forester diesel or the Audi A5 .

 

Also considering replacing both the Forester and the Rodeo with an Q7.

 

On farm ,trucks ,tractor, ride on mower , generators ,pump motors, fire tank motor , grader are all diesel .

 

The only petrol items I have are some ag bikes, a couple of generators/ pumps and my trusty welder which I plan to have converted from petrol to diesel.

 

If there was a lightweight diesel motorcycle for ag use I would buy one tomorrow.

 

Most use on the ag bike is low speed crawling work and the torque on steep country would be great.

 

Our current Honda and Yamaha ag bikes weigh around 100 kilos ,the Hayes at 193 kilos just a bit heavy to manhandle around all day .

 

A lightweight diesel bike with cvt would be ideal.

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Gary-

 

Your Aussies have a great deal more choice in diesel vehicles than we do. Here in the States a VW Golf/Jetta, BMW 3, or Benz E/M Classes are really the extent of it. You can count the vehicles on one hand. For us, the 3-Series diesel is far and away the most preferred by the automotive press and certainly a far superior vehicle in every way to either a VW or Merc, so I was using it as a benchmark and again, nice, but not anything I'd consider paying a premium for when the gas engine is the gold standard of its class.

 

We'll see where this idea of a diesel bike goes, but my feeling is, here at least, it won't go anywhere.

 

By the way, I'm headed to your fantastic country for the first time ever later this month. Sadly there won't be any time for sightseeing but, whatever I can do, I will.

 

-MKL

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Yeah right, with diesel at 4 bucks a gallon and all anybody needs is more noisy stinking diesels running around. Give me a break....snap! Around here that is about 40 cents more than premium and still these idiots are buying these big but ugly diesel powered pickup trucks. Me thinks a lot of these folks never took any kind of mathematics in school. Diesel powered motorcycles, jeeez!
I paid $3.65 a gallon today for premium, most are running mid-$3.70s. Diesel is running $3.75-$3.88/gallon.

Diesel tech has progressed SO far from the stinky, noisy days that you probably ride near one regularly and never notice. Better fuel (low sulfur), particulate filters, etc. make them very desirable, IMO, for almost anyone especially considering the 15% bonus you get on energy contained versus gasoline. I'm still amazed there aren't any diesel hybrids.

Can you imagine the torque on a diesel RT? Shredding tires with a simple twist. Wheelies galore. And more range and even better MPG. Hmmmm......

As for idiots in pickups, I expect you are correct, math not their strong suit. 5,000 lbs, + huge HP and the aerodynamics of a brick wall add up to 15 MPG. Add big mud tires and a 6" lift kit, a winch, running boards, brush guards, etc. and say hello to 12 MPG, maybe. At least the diesels get 20. A huge % increase but still crap.

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In these parts the yahoos like to straight pipe their godawful diesels so they can supposedly get more power output as if a pickup with 800 ftlbs of torque .... A lot more sulfur needs to be removed from the fuel and we need laws passed to make illegal modifications to diesels and their exhaust systems. Oops, didn't mean to sound at all political.

 

A lot of good things have been already said about diesel in the USA (for consumer use that is).

 

problem #1: it is a big business $$$ to to make P.D.P diesel reprogrammer gizmos that circumvents current diesel fuel management. People would do the same on the motorcycles to get ore power out of it.

 

problem #2 : diesels not required to do emission testing ( not in Texas ). so civilian diesels are not regulated or inspected.

 

It makes me sick to see a modified diesel puking black smoke cloud that fill two traffic lanes when the driver guns it at the green light. And yes it stinks! It make people nauseated.

 

Prior to low sulfur laws in the US, the diesel cars were economical, it paid for it self after 8 years keep. example was the VW jetta. it use to get 50 mpg the same jetta now only gets 40mpg. A diesel option on a jetta cost about $4000 more. 20K for gas vs about 24K. for diesel. Now diesel fuel cost more than gas so if it keeps up it will never pay for it self compare to a 50 mpg jetta.

The added negative is that when the new diesels go into a self clean mode every 500 miles or so the computer commands the system to dump extra amount of fuel into cylinder to overheat the Cat-converter to burn up material that this filter (cat -conv) captured/accumulated. When it does dump extra fuel it leaks into the engine oil and dilutes it. On VW diesels you HAVE to use specifically designed VW oil for this engine. This was a turn off when I searched for a fuel efficient commuter for my wife.

 

I say no diesel it makes no sense, we are not set up for it here in the US. Diesel belongs on the farms, off road or for regulated commercial use.

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I live on a somewhat busy street here in good old Baker City out here in the wilds of Eastern Oregon where the macho diesel driving good old boys do come out of the wood work, so to speak, and at times the clattering and the stench does get to me. I definitely do not sleep with my bedroom window open. What you say about the economics of buying and operating a diesel anything save a heavy truck is spot on and I can't see how motorcycles would be different. If fuel economy on a motorcycle is such a big concern then why not go find a good used Honda CB125.

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The answer is simple - fuel economy on motorcycles is not a major concern - not to the customers, and not to the manufacturers. The motors are primitive vs. their automotive counterparts in terms of efficiency precisely because it is:

 

a) not a concern to the buyers in the first place

b) not regulated so not a concern to the manufacturers in the second

c) more expensive to implement per unit since so few bikes are sold (economies of scale)

 

Discussing a diesel bike is akin to going straight to amputation before trying to save a slightly injured limb through antibiotics. We don't care enough to take baby steps like direct injection and pay a little for added MPG, so what makes anyone think any riders are going to embrace bigger steps and even more cost of a diesel?

 

I'm not saying this to advocate one point or another, but them's the facts on the ground.

 

-MKL

 

 

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Gary in Aus

 

The included link has some of the cars available to us but there are quite a few not on the list ,one obvious one to me is the 730 BMW which is a great car.

 

http://www.hercar.com.au/app/articles/articles/view/diesel-cars

 

in the article they mention not refueling often.

 

On open highway trips we often see consumption below 5 litres per hundred kms.

 

Our A6 has covered just over 30,000 kilometres in 14 months and has averaged {according to the cars computer } 6.1 litres per hundred kilometres from new.

 

The most I have seen on distance to empty after a refuel is 1310 kilometres .

 

Fuel consumption is good but the smoothness and torque of motor is very impressive especially in the larger units.

 

Just had a look on one of our most popular used car sites and nearly 80% of Audi Q7 are diesel ,even higher for Toyota Landcruiser .

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As for the diesel pumps, just tell them that there are lots of people over here buying electric cars with no infrastructure to support them.

 

This is so not true about diesel!

I am the happy owner of a 2003 VW Golf diesel. I get a consistent 48 MPG city and highway driving. What you non-diesel owners do not understand, is that with a 15 gallon tank, I typically go 750 miles before needing fuel. With that type of range, one does not need fuel stations on every corner. I go weeks before needing to fill up again.

 

All diesel fuel sold in California is low sulfer diesel fuel. With modern emissions on a diesel car, there is not clouds of smoke behind them. Those that suggest otherwise, are making arguments with 30 year old data or experiences.

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It seems that no one mentions one simple fact about a diesel motorcycle.

 

It is simply impracticable in every aspect.

The only reason you see the military showing a remote interest in it is meet the "unified fuel requirement". As in, it can run on same fuel as other military vehicles. If your bike runs out fuel you can siphon some out of the humvee (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle) and be on your way.

 

Otherwise a diesel motorcycle is disadvantages in just about every aspect. More weight, more complex, glow plug, battery, temperature issues(cold). Compare it to gas version- no battery needed if carburated, less weight (engine), less electronics, more reliable, can be air cooled= more reliable- no need to worry , if dump on ground to damage radiators and make it useless.)

Think about it.

An ultimate desert survival bike would be an old XR600 honda like motorcycle. No battery, kick start, carbureted, minimal electronics, air cooled= bullet proof.

So do you want a heavy complex diesel with a large battery and glow plugs? As I said , diesel has its place, but not in a motorcycle.

 

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I'd agree in every respect with you - except reliability. I don't think anyone in their right mind would compare a typical diesel's reliability vs. its gas counterpart. Diesel is, far and away, more reliable - and has the service record to prove it. Take a look at the mileage logged on semis, or big pickups, or the ubiquitous 35-40 year old Mercedes 300Ds that are stil chugging along.

 

But at what price comes this reliability? Too high for motorcyclist use. On that we can agree.

 

-MKL

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In 2008 while touring Sweden we came across a guy from Germany that had taken a newer Royal Enfield and outfitted it with a small diesel generator motor. He had his camping gear in various canvas bags strapped to every available nook. He and his bike were a perfect match, each a bit odd but resourceful.

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I'd agree in every respect with you - except reliability. I don't think anyone in their right mind would compare a typical diesel's reliability vs. its gas counterpart. Diesel is, far and away, more reliable - and has the service record to prove it. Take a look at the mileage logged on semis, or big pickups, or the ubiquitous 35-40 year old Mercedes 300Ds that are stil chugging along.

-MKL

Absolutely. A Kenworth/Volvo/Mack straight 6 running several million miles is the norm. 1-1.5 million between rebuilds or more. What gas engine can claim that every day?

And current U.S. standards call for only 15ppm of sulfur in road-use diesel fuel.

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In 2008 while touring Sweden we came across a guy from Germany that had taken a newer Royal Enfield and outfitted it with a small diesel generator motor. He had his camping gear in various canvas bags strapped to every available nook. He and his bike were a perfect match, each a bit odd but resourceful.

Lot's of Google hits for diesel Royal Enfield.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/06/27/royal-enfield-diesel-conversion/

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I'd agree in every respect with you - except reliability. I don't think anyone in their right mind would compare a typical diesel's reliability vs. its gas counterpart...

 

-MKL

 

true, but now we are swinging into a different kind of diesel such as semis, old 300D Mercedes and such.

It was not about the reliability of A diesel engine vs gasoline engine.

My point was, the motor cycle in this topic refers to one designed for the military use which is pretty much a modified KLR. If a motorcycle was used war/combat/extreme environment a simple (carb, air cooled, with kickstart backup) gas engine would be better in my opinion. Even the old mechanical injector pump style diesel needs hefty batteries to run glow plugs an to turn over (starter) the high compression diesel engine.

 

diesel reliability, yes the engine itself last longer ( the fuel- diesel is a lubricant vs. gasoline = solvent), but the modern diesels have their own issues, swing over to the VW TDI forum and see.

"An electric fuel pump charges the fuel rail with 1800 bar (26,000 psi) ultra low sulfur diesel"

 

Big rigs and their diesels really not belong in this tread.

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Ultimately, your analysis re why the Hayes exists (fuel compatibility with other existing military vehicles in close proximity) was spot-on perfect. Exactly what the guys from Hayes told me. They get a curious civilian here and there, but nowhere near enough to actually market and sell to the general public. And they're really the only major game in town. If they can't reel 'em in, it says a great deal about the (lack of) demand for a diesel motorcycle in this country.

 

-MKL

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Currently Barb and I have 2 VW Jetta TDIs that we use every day. We chose them because they gey 40MPG and Barb travels a lot for her job. We never have a problem finding fuel. The cars drive normally and have lots of power. People are surprised when we tell them that they are diesels, they are THAT quiet! The technology is here, now! The drawbacks for diesels are gone. Americans have a tough time making changes :thumbsup:

CIMG0296.jpg

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Rob,

 

Just a couple years ago I was struggling to make a choice when we were shopping for a fuel efficient commuter - btw TDI golf/jetta or gas hybrid.

If the current available diesels would yielded 50 mpg , we would choose the TDI. But the late model TDIs only yield 40 in the USA.

the jetta diesel in around $25K. Diesel fuel is ore expensive.

We picked a hybrid civic instead. average (city and hwy) is 42 with my wife driving, and she is not a smart hybrid driver ( does not take advantage of regenerative breaking.and it was less than $25K. A Prius get even better mpg. Both use regular gas, which is less tan diesel.

I don't think it is the case of "The drawbacks for diesels are gone. Americans have a tough time making changes"

At this point diesel car is not practical unless a person is a die-hard diesel fanatic.

 

take a look at this chart, find Volkswagen.

2008115_Page_3.jpg

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Actually the VW TDI diesel has one huge advantage over the current hybrids. It will leave the hybrid behind when acceleration is needed! Want to dragrace? This is also the reason that it "only" gets 40 mpg. Around here, I need the extra oomph to negotiate Chicago commuter traffic. 40 mpg is not bad considering. I DO have to pay 25-30 cents more per gallon. A gallon of diesel contains about 30% more BTUs, hence the extra mileage.

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Evening Rob,

Well, if you want to race I'll take you on in my 412 HP Mustang that gets an honest 28 mpg on the highway. I can flat put your VeeDub diesel away and never get out of low range and that is odor free. I don't pay an arm and leg for an oil/filter change and around here diesel is about 45 cents over gasoline. A Ford F250 with diesel option is $8K over the gas model. Tell me why I see so many diesel light trucks running around with costs like this? Only thing I can figure is a lot of people never took remedial arithmetic. Oh, and a Chevy diesel option is 9 grand. Go figure :S

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Actually the VW TDI diesel has one huge advantage over the current hybrids. It will leave the hybrid behind when acceleration is needed! Want to dragrace? This is also the reason that it "only" gets 40 mpg.

 

I think we're veering quite a bit off topic. The issue isn't so much the benfits of diesels in auto-land but on motorcycles. So far there's not much compelling argument coming from the "pro" camp.

 

Regarding diesel acceleration, the current Golf TDI is rated 0-60 in 8.6s and 30/42mpg (city/highway), while the current Prius is rated at 0-60 in 10.1s and 51/48mpg (city/highway). 1s 0-60 is equivalent to a about car length at the finish line. Since here we're talking of two pretty boring transportation appliances, both on the slow side relatively speaking, let's not ignore that the hybrid brings in some 66% better fuel economy city where they shine - in other words the hybrid's advantage in fuel economy is markedly higher than the diesel's in acceleration. Acceleration in both cases is nothing to brag about.

 

Re price differentials on diesel pickups, it's not all MPGs. The diesel trucks often boast substantially higher towing limits, resale values, and in many cases substantially higher warranties as well, which goes hand in hand with diesel's reputation for solid reliability. No serious workhorse truck is anything but diesel, and for good reason.

 

I'm a diesel fan. I'm a hybrid fan. I'm a fan of anything that we as a country can do to wean ourselves from foreign oil. I'm glad this forum has fans of diesels and hybrids. But back to the point, I still don't see an urgent, unsatisfied demand for diesel bikes.

 

-MKL

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No need to get in to the dragrace argument. mine is 1.5 liter gas engine with CVT trans vs your 2.0 liter turbo (with 6 speed automatic?). none of these are really rubber burning machines. :)

 

If you chose the diesel over the hybrid because it is stronger or faster, then you win. But i recall you stated you choose it because of fuel economy.

Also, this was kind of what the VW salesman said, Quoting from your post.

"Actually the VW TDI diesel has one huge advantage over the current hybrids. It will leave the hybrid behind when acceleration is needed! Want to dragrace?"

It is not a drag racing machine in its stock form.

 

 

I stand behind my statement. Diesel cars or motorcycles in the USA are not practical from the cost point of view.

 

PS: I would still consider a diesel car, if:

1)diesel fuel would cost as much as regular gaoline

2) I could change the oil my self with rotella oil bought at walmart. NOt the "special VW diesel oil

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I totally agree. Diesel cars and light trucks are not economical when new purchase price and cost of fuel are considered and I seriously doubt you will ever see a diesel powered motorcycle for sale in this country. Talk to folks that operate heavy trucks for a living and ask them how they like bio-diesel. Makes about as much sense as growing corn crops intended for making of ethanol for use in vehicles. As far as dependence on foreign oil is concerned we could get a lot more bang for the buck by switching to much smaller cars, trucks, and motorcycles. It has been estimated that 75% of driving done by Americans is unnecessary. If anybody is really that concerned about foreign oil dependency there are better ways to address the problem than production of bio-fuel.

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HairyCannonball
Evening Rob,

Well, if you want to race I'll take you on in my 412 HP Mustang that gets an honest 28 mpg on the highway.

 

28MPG is pathetic. Howcome people are so brainwashed to think that is good mileage. I cant imagine driving something that inefficient with a clear conscience. I'll stick with my 50+mpg TDI Jetta thanks.

 

Oh, and I like my diesel Royal Enfield too. Slow, but its a hoot to ride and has been averaging 150mpg.

 

 

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28MPG is pathetic.

 

It certainly is not, considering that engine produces in excess of 400HP. It's all relative. I've been an auto-industry watcher since I was 10 years old. 20 years ago, the notion of 28 mpg was reserved for econoboxes. 10 years ago, for some of the more fuel efficient midsize vehicles. Today, it is possible with a hairy performance oriented V8 in a Mustang. Keep things apples to apples and you will find yourself hailing progress.

 

But diesel still won't fly on a motorcycle!

 

-MKL

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But diesel still won't fly on a motorcycle!

 

-MKL

 

I disagree. A custom-designed modern lightweight for cylinder boxer diesel would make a fantastic touring bike with performance equivalent to current models and fuel consumption in the order of 100mpg (imperial).

I can see the fact that the ultra-low cost of fuel in the USA takes away the cost saving benefit, but for the rest of the world total running cost will be much lower. My son's Vauxhall (GM) Vectra 2.0 diesel gets about 50mpg (imperial) and a 9000 mile service interval that costs £100 at our local mechanic. My Mazda 626 2.0 petrol engined car (the same size/weight class as the Vectra) gets 35mpg (imperial) and costs £150 every 10,000 miles. Withfuel costing around $8 per US gallon, those 15 miles extra from each gallon add up.

 

Andy

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While doing some research on diesels, and older econobox type cars, I found many vehicles from the late '70's and early '80's that got in excess of 33/city 40+/HWY including some Rabbits listed at 50+mpg.

That was 30+ years ago.

Are emission controls to blame for not improving on those numbers?

(Yes, know EPA avg is done differently now but these were from a VW board and a Diesel forum)

 

Swapping my '96 Impala for a 2008 4cyl Malibu has saved me close to $5,000 in gas commuting costs, plus one set of tires (over $650) and zero maintenance dollars.

I average just under 30mpg.

At 40+ average I would "save" even more if my unscheduled maint. didn't eat up the difference.

Why shouldn't I buy a diesel?

 

Disclaimer, still haven't gone to Toyoland and see if the new Prius allows me to get behind the wheel.

;)

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RussInParis
I can see the fact that the ultra-low cost of fuel in the USA takes away the cost saving benefit, but for the rest of the world total running cost will be much lower....

 

I agree. In France diesel fuel is about 20% CHEAPER than gas, mostly because of taxes. We have a 9 passenger van with a 1.9 liter TDI diesel; 7.2 liters per 100 kms (around 35mpg I think). Service interval is 30,000 kms with a regular service running 150 euros. It has 120K kms on it and is quiet, doesn't smell and runs like new after 8 years.

 

Perhaps not for a sport bike, but I would LOVE to have a GS-style diesel motorcycle.

 

However, I do think that a lot of what makes modern diesels so attractive is the turbo charging and high-pressure fuel injection, and this would certainly add complication and cost to a diesel bike.

 

jmtc.

Russ

 

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I do think that a lot of what makes modern diesels so attractive is the turbo charging and high-pressure fuel injection, and this would certainly add complication and cost to a diesel bike.

 

Yup. Turbos (not too popular on motorcycles for obvious reasons) and high pressure injection. Don't forget urea fluid that has to be injected to reduce the horrible emissions of diesels. Don't forget most diesels are heavy iron block, not lightweight aluminum, to handle the higher compression. Try and package all of this (plus the increased weight) on a bike, with the main driver being fuel economy, a factor most riders could care less about.

 

Tim, the higher MPGs of older econoboxes (both diesel and gas alike - remember the 50mpg Honda CRX of 25 years ago??) has everything to do with weight. Check out what those old cars weigh vs. what newer econoboxes weigh. Of course, with that extra weight you're getting modern safety and convenience features you're not likely to want to give up.

 

Re Prius if you can't fit in the standard wait a few months for Prius V, a larger Prius (50-60% more cargo room) and the same drivetrain, so you'll still exceed 40 mpg:

 

2012-toyota-prius-v_100336630_m.jpg

 

-MKL

 

 

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HairyCannonball
28MPG is pathetic.

 

It certainly is not, considering that engine produces in excess of 400HP. It's all relative. I've been an auto-industry watcher since I was 10 years old. 20 years ago, the notion of 28 mpg was reserved for econoboxes. 10 years ago, for some of the more fuel efficient midsize vehicles. Today, it is possible with a hairy performance oriented V8 in a Mustang. Keep things apples to apples and you will find yourself hailing progress.

 

But diesel still won't fly on a motorcycle!

 

-MKL

 

Yeah,28 is pathetic. Why anyone accepts this level of inefficiency baffles me. Geez, you'd need a 20 gallon tank to go over 500 miles. That's a lot of weight.

 

As an auto industry "watcher" you might need new glasses, as you have conveniently missed the development of new diesel technology. It is easily possible to get over 100hp/ltr from a light, low emission diesel. Some of us quit viewing acceleration and top speed as the only measure of performance shortly after high school. Instead we value handling, range, efficiency, braking, low maintenance, reliability etc. as performance parameters. Fuel economy is important on a motorcycle just as every other aspect of performance is important. Nothing is more frustrating to some of us than having to stop every 250 miles to add fuel. I think a well thought out diesel motorcycle would sell. I for one would be first in line.

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Morning Hairy,

 

Today's lesson:

VW TDI = BORRRRING

Ford Mustang GT = FUN :):)

 

In my case I live in town and walk everywhere. The Stang spends winters in heated garage on a trickle charger along with the '81R100RT and the '04RT. Bought the Stang 6 months ago and have a whopping 1200 good time miles on the clock. I am retired and only drive occasionally but when I do... :clap::clap:

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People's need (or want) is different from one to the next, as demonstrated in the two post above this.

 

I think we all can agree that most people buy motorcycles for fun(just for weekend or long distance touring), not to save gas/fuel. SO i believe performance/comfort leads, fuel economy is secondary.

Fuel economy is important to a commuter. But in all honesty I do not find motorcycle a good commuter due to several factors such as weather (too hot here in Texas a person would be sweaty getting to work), traffic in metro areas, the need to carry things or pick up stuff on the way home. On the other hand some people use mc as primary transportation or commute.

If there would be even a slight demand for a diesel cars or mc , we would already have a good selection at the dealers.

Europe is a different story altogether for cars, yet we still don't see diesel motorcycles there.

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Good point about there not being diesel powered motorcycles in Europe. I would think that weight of a diesel power train would be a problem where a motorcycle is concerned. We spent a month in south of Ireland about 13 years ago and I was amazed at the number of small 4 cylinder diesel powered cars and trucks. I was also amazed at how quiet and odor free these diesels were. In Ireland it would not be allowed to import an American muscle car as well as impractical to operate one there. I would like to see vehicles sold in this country downsized drastically and heavy freight shipped by rail whenever possible. In other words a complete re-think about transportation in this country. I would even give up my lust for the all American muscle machine. Oh, and just think what we could save in highway construction costs. Must drive to Boise next Saturday to take a flight to Austin, TX and it would be great to just take a train from Baker to Boise rather than drive (Ford Escape) and pay for 6 days parking at airport. Major east/west Union Pacific tracks connect Baker with Boise but no passenger trains operate anymore. :(

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Evening Rob,

Well, if you want to race I'll take you on in my 412 HP Mustang that gets an honest 28 mpg on the highway. I can flat put your VeeDub diesel away and never get out of low range and that is odor free. I don't pay an arm and leg for an oil/filter change and around here diesel is about 45 cents over gasoline. A Ford F250 with diesel option is $8K over the gas model. Tell me why I see so many diesel light trucks running around with costs like this? Only thing I can figure is a lot of people never took remedial arithmetic. Oh, and a Chevy diesel option is 9 grand. Go figure :S

And now we have come full circle. My bike gets 45 MPG and will flat out kick the tar out of any sub-100k vehicle, and most over that price, for sale in this country (Ariel Atom isn't sold here, right?) and with no mods needed. For $15k. Cheap, fast, jaw-droppingly fun and great MPG. Love it!

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HairyCannonball
Morning Hairy,

 

Today's lesson:

VW TDI = BORRRRING

Ford Mustang GT = FUN :):)

 

 

Close:

Any car = BORRRRING

Any motorcycle = FUN!! :) :)

 

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