Private pilots: what do you get out of it?

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

My dirty little secret? When I was in high school, and for my first couple of years of college, I wanted to be a fighter pilot. Air shows and movies like Top Gun (which came out when I was 16) played a role, but so did documentaries like "Top Gun and Beyond," which were more firmly based in reality than Tom Cruise's oeuvre.

 

About halfway through college I turned away from the idea for several reasons, though I still maintain an armchair-interest in flight; I'll wager I know more about planes and flight than the average non-pilot.

 

For all of that though, I'm not an actual pilot. General aviation never appealed to me because of the expense and because you get to pilot a rather modest aircraft, and the whole thing seems to be "fly politely and do what ATC says," which is a far cry from flinging an F-22 up to 30K feet in a couple of minutes and performing aggressive aerobatics to subdue a threat aircraft. Private aerobatic flight might be a hoot nearly on par with that, but I'll wager it's even more expensive than general aviation.

 

Having said all that, my dad (a former Navy pilot - not fighters, but multi-engine VIP transport) has suggested that I not write off flying altogether, so lemme ask you's guys:

 

-Are you a private pilot?

-What's the thrill of flying for you?

-What kind of time investment is involved in obtaining your license, and then staying "current?"

-What kind of expense is involved?

-How does it compare to motorcycling for you (use whatever basis for comparison you feel is appropriate)?

[David]

I've been a pilot for 21 years (fixed wing) and 11 years (rotorcraft).

 

The thrill of flying is the feeling of freedom, like a bird. And the use of technology, in combination with understanding the weather.

 

I was the company pilot for two separate companies. The first paid for my private, complex sign-off (bigger engines, retractable gear, prop that changes pitches), acrobatic training, etc. Second company paid for my instrument ticket and other ratings. Nowadays I think a private would run you $5,000-6,000. My best advice in that context:

 

1) Find an instructor who is older and not someone just trying to build hours toward their commercial rating.

 

2) Do it as fast as you can, like a few months. You'll not forget as many things and will progress much quicker.

 

3) It's a real high when you get your private, but you're it's not a very practical license without an instrument rating. That's when you can really plan trips and expect to not change plans much.

 

I actually got bored with fixed wing flying. I had a Piper Lance (six adults, full baggage, six hours of fuel). I'd take off, set the auto pilot, and then just be there if something went wrong. The most exciting part of flying was doing an instrument approach to minimums and I found myself longing for more of those so I wouldn't be bored.

 

That's what led me to get my helicopter license. It was a real challenge but also gave me a greater sense of freedom (like a hummingbird).

 

Then I eased off on the flying and took to motorcycles. I've always said that riding is like flying without the FAA. The regulations are legion, though in your part of the country the airspace wouldn't be all that busy.

 

I'd say go for it. I don't know if you remember me telling you this, but I told you years ago that you'd make a terrific pilot.

[Lineareagle]

Well now lets see.

 

I flew commercial for 15 years or so. I was fortunate in that I flew floats, wheels, multi-engine and IFR and really never knew which until I went to work so the variety was great, plus I flew in BC on the coast and in Peru so that added a whole new dimension to flying.

As well I am an A&P so I could work on the planes when I wasn't flying, best of the whole aviation world IMHO.

 

When I returned home from Peru with a family I couldn't afford to fly for a living so moved on.

After five years or so I did a little stint of private flying, but I just could not get into it, then I found hang gliding!

 

If I was younger and had better legs, than the ones I've busted up on motorcycles, I would be out doing that every chance I had.

 

That is true flying again IMHO. The best flying experience I ever had was hang gliding in TN off the big radial ramp and ending up soaring with a red tailed hawk as a wing man and having my wing disappear, wow, I mean WOW too cool for words.

 

There is a great aero tow hang club in central MI. Cloud 9 "No affiliation" Go give it a try, I guarantee you will not be disappointed and it is really not that expensive.

 

Be aware hang glider pilots are just as in love with their sport as motorcyclists.

 

 

 

 

[chrisolson]

Single engine VFR with glider rating since the late 60's. Got the power rating first and the new wore off fairly quickly even when fuel and rental costs were really cheap! Going somewhere wasn't practical. Like David said, for long distance travel you really need an IFR rating. I just wanted to fly, not travel. But eventually sport flying locally actually became boring.

 

Added a glider (sailplane) rating and never looked back. Every flight can be a challenge ... or not. Flight durations are a great combination of skill and a bit of luck. You can fly local, or strike out for cross country. My best flight was from Phx to Tucson and back. I happen to live in one of the best areas for thermal soaring in the US so my opinion may be slightly skewed

 

If I had it to do over, I'd skip power and go straight for sailplane.

 

 

[ericfoerster]

It depends on what YOU want to do. If you just want to fly from time to time just grab an instructor and fly. This is the cheap way to go and still get some stick time (Carry a log book and them sign off).

If you want to obtain the license, then I agree with David. Don't mess around and drag it out. The faster the better. I'd find someone you like and that can mesh with. Age does not matter if you are in sync with the instructor you are coming out better off.

If you have a flight center near you find out what aircraft are being used for training and look them over. As a former instructor I can tell you I have flown some crap over the years.

 

Again, its all in what you want out of it.

[BerndM]

During the late 70s and early 80s, I had 3 good friends who had their own aircraft. A '67 Mooney Executive, a Piper Warrior-2 and a '47 Cessna 140 flush riveted metal winged taildragger with a non stock engine.

Because of this, I went thru ground school and actually had about 15 hours of logged flight time.

However, I dropped out of the effort because all 3 determined that by the time they added up ALL the associated costs of owning and flying an airplane, and then dividing that cost by the hours actually flown, they could have RENTED a MUCH nicer plane for a LOT less $$ and have none of the headaches associated with ownership.

'Nuff said!

[beemerman2k]

...or you can just go get Microsoft Flight Simulator X and have at it! That's what I do from time to time.

 

I like to take off from, say, LAX, point the plane West, go to bed, and see where I end up in the morning.

 

I know-I know, some of us are still about 14 years old at heart

[TEWKS]

 

[quote=beemerman2k

]...or you can just go get Microsoft Flight Simulator X and have at it!

 

One better James, take the LearJet under the Golden Gate at a rapid rate of speed!

 

13.5 here!

 

Mitch, I have a King flight school video course if you're interested. VHS, yup i'm getting old!

 

 

Pat

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Again, its all in what you want out of it.

 

I don't know what I can get out of it, and that's why an important part of my inquiry is finding out what other folks get out of it.

 

I've thought about what I like in motorcycling, and I'm not sure that I'd get anything different or better or more out of flying. Do you pilots feel differently?

 

I don't know if you remember me telling you this, but I told you years ago that you'd make a terrific pilot.

 

Thanks; my dad recently said the same thing. I guess it means something that two different pilots would say that to me - but would I enjoy it?

 

I've always said that riding is like flying without the FAA.

 

That's my impression of the whole thing - and despite owning a BMW, I suspect that riding is a whole lot cheaper in the long run.

[Mister Tee]

-Are you a private pilot?

 

PPL/ASEL, instrument rated, some dual time in helicopters.

 

-What's the thrill of flying for you?

 

With the exception of taking off, landing, and flying over some interesting scenery, flying can actually be boring, particularly on long trips. Aerobatic flight, however, is a lot of fun.

 

-What kind of time investment is involved in obtaining your license, and then staying "current?"

 

Figure about $8K - $10K on your PPL, and about $5K on each additional rating. Maintaining basic currency is fairly easy, a flight review every two years (1 hour ground, 1 hour flight with instructor), and a currency on landings is necessary for carrying passengers. Third class (private) medicals last five years now if you are under 40, and 2 years if you are over 40. Instrument currency is more involved and can require the assistance of an additional safety pilot.

 

-What kind of expense is involved?

 

Most single engine airplanes capable of carrying 2 - 3 people, like a Cessna 172, rent from about $120 - $150 per flight hour, including fuel. The same plane if you buy it, will cost you from about $50K to $250K depending on the age, model and equipment, and have operating expenses of about $50 an hour. Typically the breakpoint is about 150 hours a year, if you fly more than that, it makes more sense to buy. If not, rent. But, the other side of the equation is that you may not be able to rent the type of airplane you need to accomplish your mission if you need more. If you want a fast, retractable gear, true four or six seater, or a twin, rentals are not readily available, and they are significantly more expensive when they are. To sum it up, renting is expensive. Owning is horribly expensive.

 

-How does it compare to motorcycling for you (use whatever basis for comparison you feel is appropriate)?

 

Riding my GSXR 750 on the track at the limit is like piloting an aerobatic airplane in many respects - the thrill of speed, high G turns, etc... let's just say that motorcycling fills in the voids when I'm not flying.

[upflying]

I'm private, single-engine land and rotorcraft. Started flying in 1980 in a Piper "Traumahawk", $23/hr wet as I recall. Got a private 3 months later and after spending about $2500. You can quadruple that amount today.

Main reason I stated flying is because my in-laws owned property in Clearlake, Ca. I would fly up to Lower Lake (airport no longer there) on the weekend and make a long stay out of the visit. Each way was 45 minutes compared to two-half hours driving. Flying adds valuable time to whatever your destination is.

The in-laws moved and kids grew up so flying eventually became a "$100 hamburger" mission. Fly somewhere, have lunch and fly back.

I was also a volunteer, non-compensated ferry pilot for the FBO I belonged to so I was able to build time at no expense to me.

During the mid-90's, the police agency I worked for obtained two Vietnam era OH-58A's for free from President Clinton's military downsizing. I added a helicopter rating after about 75 hrs in a Schweitzer CB300.

Eventually flying became a form of natural medication for me. Police work is very stressful and when I had a bad day at work, I would go flying to feel better. After an hour of flying, I felt refreshed and invigorated. How? Flying requires intense concentration and anything not related to flying is purged from your thoughts. Anything that was bothering me at work is not important when flying. Best mental health therapy in the world is flying.

Although a pilots license is good for life, it's only valid if you endure biannual medical exams and biannual flight review from an instructor. It gets expensive but it beats sitting in a bar and drinking the money away.

If I had to do it again, I would start out in the military. The expense of flying and building time (the ultimate goal) makes civilian transition to commercial aviation very expensive and out of reach for most people.

Most fun: Citabria!!

Most challenging: Schweitzer

Sexiest: Piper Turbo Arrow (T-Tail version)

Stall spin accident waiting to happen: Piper Tomahawk

[David]

So to answer your question about what I got out of it. At first, it was just the fun and the challenge of learning something well.

 

Then we began to fly a whole lot as a family, taking weekend trips or whole weeks away, covering a lot of ground in a short amount of time (180 mph as the crow flies).

 

Then I started using it for business, and that's where I built most of my hours. I flew to some new city every week (I typically get one new client per week). From Nashville, I'd fly myself to Miami, NYC, Detroit, Kansas City, Dallas, or New Orleans. Sort of a big circle. Beyond that, I'd fly commercially.

 

I think it's worth doing even if you have no strong use for it. The process really teaches you a lot about physics, motion, weather, and humans.

[Pilgrim]

I got a Private license in Alaska in the '70s, pretty cheap since I was friends with an instructor at Northway who owned a clapped-out Cessna 150 with about 80hp left out of the original 100. I got to do some bush flying with a couple old-time serious pilots in serious bush airplanes. Some of it lives in my nightmares still , but they never broke a sweat.

 

Alaska flying was seldom dull. If the trip got boring I just dropped down and flew the rivers and ridges and looked at the scenery and wildlife. Also, there is a phenomenon up there called "auto-rough." When you get out of gliding range of the airport, somehow the engine knows and begins an intermittent miss or has a strange rumble you can't quite identify.

 

I tried to continue to fly when I came back out to the 48 but the expense was just too much and it was, in truth, boring, so I gave it up.

 

Flying, sailing, and riding all have this in common: you are responsible for the outcome, just you. Do it right and you know you did it right. Do it wrong, and you know that, too. Do it really wrong and you may die.

 

If you just want to fly for fun (and the actual operation of an aircraft can be fun, like riding) check out the relatively new category of Light Sport Pilot. A nicely executed landing or short-field takeoff is very satisfying, and those airplanes can take you to some nice picnic spots. Just don't think of them as serious transportation.

 

Pilgrim

[Rocer]

I could have given you your father's advice after my first year of reading posts here on BMWST. You have a thirst for knowledge and a talent for hands on. Like you, from my youth I always wanted to fly since my first flight in an Aeronca Champ at 12 yrs. old. I didn't actually take up my dream until about 45 yrs. after, did ground school and was about 18 hrs. into flight training when at the point of doing my solo I had to drop out for medial reasons.

 

Mitch, it's one hell of a thrill learning to fly. If you have any inclination (guess that's a dumb question) go for it. There's no end to the learning. Even if you only do it for a few years you'll never regret the experience as evidenced by the responses you are getting. Hang the expense. If you want to do it, DO IT. But I'd skip the Tomahawk experience.

 

Oh, and our little airport is newly paved and waiting.

[Mister Tee]

Sexiest: Piper Turbo Arrow (T-Tail version)

 

The TEE has about 1,200 hours in a TA III (straight tail version) and about 10 hours in a T-Tail. The T-Tails are cool looking, but I actually prefer flying a straight tail.

[upflying]

The T-tail is out of the prop wash so it's of no help during soft field or short field. I too prefer the conventional straight tails.

[Marty Hill]

Mitch, I flew for 30 years/comm-multi-inst. Many different types. No greater feeling. Everything else is a step down. Go for it.

[Matts_12GS]

If you just want to fly for fun (and the actual operation of an aircraft can be fun, like riding) check out the relatively new category of Light Sport Pilot. A nicely executed landing or short-field takeoff is very satisfying, and those airplanes can take you to some nice picnic spots. Just don't think of them as serious transportation.

 

Pilgrim

 

I was thinking of the recreational license after a friend mentioned it to me. I have thought about it but don't really have the desire to do it.

 

Go take a ground school (many community colleges teach this too) and find a friend with an airplane to take you around some. It's better than finding friends with boats!

[Skywagon]

30 years private, commercial, instrument, multi-engine, instructor.

 

Write this down...Unless you're involved with a group of aviators you will quickly bore with your certificate. Join CAP, a flying club, Angel Flight, animal rescue, cancer patients, or something that generates interest and an opportunity to fly.

 

Going places with your buddies for the proverbial $100 hamburger won't last long.

 

For me...flying takes my mind off of everything else..work, home, money, etc. When I finish, even after 30 years, I am still giddy.

 

Training...sign up for a ground school at a local Fixed Based Operator (FBO). That will cost you anywhere from $99 - $200. I think the ground school will hook you. Then mid-way through take your first couple of flights. It will be exciting.

 

Then you can figure it out from there. Today count on $5-6k for a private. You don't have to do it all in a month. You can spread it out over the course of a year. Shorter is better to avoid repeat learning, but 6 months to a year is normal.

 

Engineers take to it because it is way more than flying the plane. Anybody can learn to fly the plane in short order.

 

A different opinion for you...ATC doesn't tell you where to go unless you are in certain airspace and generally they will let you go where you want. Most of the time you do go where and when you want and work with ATC to comply with rules in high traffic areas. I love to fly my plane at 1000 MSL as slow as reasonable just to look around. Sometimes it's nice to push it up to it's cruise of 160Kts and get on down the road.

 

As far as doing what you want at 30k...nope. Anything above 18k MSL is going to be controlled. Most things below...have a ball.

 

If you want to talk real time or would just like some old charts to study, shoot me a private message. Heck if you still have a VHS VCR I will send you some old tapes.

 

Go for it!

[bayoubengal]

-Are you a private pilot?

ATP/CFII/MEI + USAF Senior Instructor Pilot, Delta Pilot

-What's the thrill of flying for you?

1) I love the mental challenge

2) I love the relaxation

-What kind of time investment is involved in obtaining your license, and then staying "current?"

You already got pretty good advice. One thing I will add is that if you attack it with an agressive schedule it will be less expensive. It's that recency thing. Undergraduate Pilot Training in the USAF had us flying twice a day and sometimes doing a sim on top of that.

-What kind of expense is involved? Again you've been given accurate numbers. $6K if agressive and $10K if not.

-How does it compare to motorcycling for you (use whatever basis for comparison you feel is appropriate)? Good aviating is more cerebal. Both require good motor skills. Before you guys jump on me, I acknowledge and teach my kids and friends that motorcycling has a huge mental aspect, but I personally think not as much as aviating.

 

Think of your training in 3 phases"

1) Solo! Nothing like it. Next goal:

2) Consider Sport Pilot or Recreational Certificate as intermediate goal. Finally:

3) Private. This is your license to learn. Add an instrument rating when able.

 

What can you do with it:

1) Recreation. Enjoy the peace, beauty and serenity of personal flight.

2) $100 hamburger.

3) Business and personal/vacation travel.

4) Challenge yourself.

5) Become an instructor part time. Help infect others with your enthusiasm. You get the burger but not the $100 bill. I don't actively instruct now but when I retire I will again. I love instructing. It is very rewarding.

6) Tell flying lies.

7) Take your squeeze flying. "Put out or get out" takes on a whole new meaning a 5000'...

 

I agree that from reading your post you are a prime candidate, and one who will succeed. AOPA will send you a free learn to fly kit with a free 6 month script to Flight Training magazine. Also agree with the advice on joinging an organization. Let me know if I can help.

[TEWKS]

7) Take your squeeze flying. "Put out or get out" takes on a whole new meaning a 5000'...

 

5,280 feet!

 

 

Pat

 

 

[Uncle Beemer]

I flew Air Force 1 for 5 years back in the 70's. My biggest kick? Getting the Prez back home safe and sound.

[big-t]

 

Got my ticket in 1983,private with instrument rating.It didn't take long to get bored following the VOR signals and commands from the ATCs,so I headed into grass roots flying in and out of challenging grass strips and farm fields and generally pushing my luck until I got caught on a botched landing and flattened the gear and tweaked the wings on my Maule.

 

Bought a 1946 Taylorcraft shortly thereafter and created one of my best flying memories by flying it back from Colorado the old fashion way.Great experience.

 

 

Flying is attractive because of the challenge,just like trying to ride the motorcycle proficiently in all types of situations.Once you get started its hard to walk away until your proficient.

 

Now days you can start with a recreational license and see if you like it.Probably a lot cheaper that way.

 

I agree with the others Mitch,you will make a great pilot.

 

 

I still have the T-Craft hidden in a hanger out in the country although its not been off the ground for several years.

 

 

 

One of these days....

 

[Jack Herbst]

After 29,000 plus hours with NWA flying 707,727,DC-10 and 747 I am back to flying my Bonanza V35B. Got to tell you I still love it. It is expensive but three dimension freedom is hard to beat. After 35 years and retirement from the Airlines I still get exited when heading to the airport. Besides I have a lot of extra space to store more motorcycles at the hanger. If you have the desire do it. Life is short. Life is even shorter if you procrastinate!

 

Cap'n Jack

[upflying]

After 29,000 plus hours with NWA flying 707,727,DC-10 and 747 I am back to flying my Bonanza V35B. Got to tell you I still love it. It is expensive but three dimension freedom is hard to beat. After 35 years and retirement from the Airlines I still get exited when heading to the airport. Besides I have a lot of extra space to store more motorcycles at the hanger. If you have the desire do it. Life is short. Life is even shorter if you procrastinate!

 

Cap'n Jack

Love it, a veteran of steam gauge, three pilot flying on Jet A @ 35 cents a gallon. 727 was a hot rod, pilots airplane. Flying was aristocratic back in the day, people actually got dressed up to board a plane. Stewardesses provided genuine cabin service. Airport security? You actually walked on the ramp to board the plane.

The stories Jack could tell..some day.

[Jack Herbst]

 

Upflying, you have it right. You must have been there. Yes I or anyone flying then have many stories. It was a wonderful and long career. I was very lucky. I actually retired from the same airline I went to work for.

What I meant to say is I still enjoy flying whether in a J-3 or 747. Are you listening "Joe Fricken Friday". If you want to do it do it now. Life is oh so short. May the force be with you.

 

"When I get back home on Monday I am going to take a class in self assertiveness--- if my wife will let me". Jack

 

 

[Couchrocket]

I don't have a pilot's license. I grew up in a flying family and flew almost every weekend from the time I was about 9 years old until I was 17. My dad was a pilot in WWII and and never lost the love of flying even though he was a electronics guy by profession. We rented little Aeronca Champs on the weekends in the early days. Spent whole afternoons shooting touch and gos at a little uncontrolled airport. More sophisticated aircraft as we had more money available. Since those early days I've done a lot of flying with pilot friends in all kinds of private gen av airplanes, from Decathlons doing aerobatics, to a friend who had a Cessna Turbo 210. Also did some sailplane flying with my brother.

 

I have lots of hours in my log book, even though I never did solo (we moved to a different town and just quit flying for financial reasons).

 

Here's what I have to offer re bikes and planes:

 

The biggest difference between flying powered aircraft and riding motorcycles (besides the obvious ) is that in riding a motorcycle the power is connected to the ground "directly" and the physics of riding give you immediate "physical" feedback. A direct sense of acceleration, the feel of "the lean," braking, that sense of "the pace," etc.

 

Flying has always felt "different" to me because the power isn't connected directly to "anything," so to speak. Flying is less "physical" feeling (I'm not doing a very good job of explaining, I fear) and is more about energy management, understanding the dynamics of flight and staying within an envelope that works. Get outside that envelope (which can be done very easily and without any physical "feedback" at all like you get on a motorcycle when you get out near the edge) and you have a problem. Flying is about knowledge, a differnt kind of "physical touch" and undersanding and trust in instrumentation. In that sense, flying well is about being methodical, careful, calm, and well out in front of the aircraft. It is more cerebral to my way of thinking and less physical. It is enormously satisfying to "manage the flight" and to develop the very broad skill set that is required to be an excellent cross country pilot.

 

It is a completely different kind of "thing" than motorcycle riding, IMO though often people who do well flying also do well riding motorcycle or sailing sailboats. I think it has to do with a mindset and a desire for "mastery" of one's destiny / environment as much as it has to do with the specific skills required for each.

 

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

[RonStewart]

In 2001 I wanted to fly. Actually, I wanted to build an airplane. Started taking lessons and got 14 hours in before money tightened up. After some time away from the flight school, the itch went away. I wish that I had acheived the license for the sake of acheiving it, though.

 

Anyway, there is a flying club/flight school here that does a six-week course in the summer. Ground school in the morning, air time in the afternoon. The price wasn't too bad. If you can get the time off, it seems a good way to go.

 

Clubs are good places to ask questions.

[bayoubengal]

Mitch

 

A couple of afterthoughts:

 

The best private flying I ever did was in partnerships. I enjoyed the comraderie with the guys and it made it basically as cheap as renting. 3-4 total owners is the perfect number. The plane will nearly always be available and the division of expenses is considerable.

 

Partnerships - Gotta get the right partners. Everything that could potentially happen must be in writing. EVERYTHING. I had really good luck but I had great partners and we had a really good understanding. Remember - a good understanding makes for a long friendship.

 

You could buy 1/4 share in a nice C172 for less than 10K. Then share fixed and pay variable expenses. Don't forget maint. reserves.

[chrisd]

I flew Air Force 1 for 5 years back in the 70's. My biggest kick? Getting the Prez back home safe and sound.

 

 

Wow, that's amazing. What was that like?

[Rocer]

Well?

[Scribner]

Mitch,

You have gotten great advice from everyone. I have been around aviation all my life, have over 1300 hours (not much by many standards), have operated a flight school and FBO. As I have gotten a little older my greatest thrill is still going to the airport, seeing a great bunch of good folks and doing some flying. My motorcycle and airplane share the hangar and its the place to be when work or family is not pulling at my sleeve. Flying well sharpens a person, makes them a little better than they were before. The people you meet are a notch above the fray. The satisfaction you will get from flying well is very much the same satisfaction you get from riding well. Just do it.