Tar snakes - how to deal with it?

[SuperG]

HAs any of you ever got the "ba-jesus" scared out of you because of tar snakes?

 

Last fall (sunny mid-day) we were riding back from Big-Bend national park in west Texas on some remote county roads.

Nice flat roads no traffic, good sweeper turns.

We were traveling at a good rate of speed through the roads and turns, one place on the road the entire turning radius was painted with tar snakes only inches apart from each other.

 

We entered this turn at about 60-70mph.

I leaned into it and turned the handlebar slightly as usual. The bike kept going straight. I leaned it more, no change , I unconsciously put my left foot on the ground and dragged it a bit(dangerous).

I did make the turn but just barely, inches away from running of the road.

I may slightly soiled my pants

 

How do you deal with tar snakes in high speed turns?

[Groanup]

I'm probably not the best one to answer this, but I had my first real encounter with "tar snakes" last summer going over hwy 14 in Utah.

Kinda had the same experience as you. I says to myself, "Ahhh, that's what a tar snake is!". After that I had my full attention on every curve and the tar snakes therein. Where there was a large patch of them, I slowed down... That seemed to do the trick.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

For some reason, they get real soft on Hwy 89 on the west shore of Tahoe. I crank it down in areas where I know they are and if the pillion is with me. First time she felt one, she asked what that was. I included my usual expletive before "tar snake" and she said now she understood.

 

[BerndM]

Tar snakes are REALLY scary ESPECIALLY if they have a very dark appearance. That means they are pretty new and haven't had the "shine" worn off them yet. Once they get a dull look, they are mostly OK. Once nightime hits, you're on your own, you can't tell if they're new or old.

 

[Lmar]

I slow down and try to avoid them if at all possible.

[Indy Dave]

I, too, am all ears to the wise and experienced riders here. Last summer a buddy and I were heading down to the Indy dealership. He was leading on his K1300GT and we came off a state road onto the entrance ramp for the interstate. While this is a ramp I'd not used in several years, I was familiar with the ramp's layout and the tight (fun) corners it provided. I've blasted down it several times in my car years ago. It is like a "C". I come onto the ramp a little warm and the flipping thing has tar snakes everywhere! I jersey wall is fast approaching as I'm trying to get the bike turned for the first near 90 degree curve. Bike and rider came through with room to spare, but it was certainly a pucker moment.

 

I obviously used very poor judgment in my plan to aggressively ride the ramp when I did not know the condition of the road. None the less, these flippin' snakes are all over our Indiana roads.

[RevRay]

Short answer aim for them, Practice practice until the the effects are second nature. Usally they break your traction for just a breif moment, an unsettling sensation especially at a spirited pace. Avoid any sudden throttle adjustment, my two cents.

 

A favorite local road as always seemed to have its fair share of tar snakes, seems like they have multiplied 10 fold in the last year or so, an effort by the local municipality to slow down motorcyclists ????

[Carl_T]

We have lots and lots of them in my area. You receive the least traction on them in the wet and on hot days.

 

Mostly miss them when you can, hold the status quo if you get into one or two as the slide will be brief.

 

HOWEVER, if they are incorrectly laid down and you get grossly wide ones, or parallel ones a foot or more wide, decidedly avoid. The slide can get large enough to put a bike down with feet of parallel snake width and not enough regular blacktop to re-grab the slide. They are not supposed to be used in that fashion, though the person laying them down may have missed that training. Occasionally you find that.

 

Normal ones that give you a small wiggle, relax, not problematic. Good mental game though plotting a line to miss them. Keeps you sharp.

[Indy Dave]

We have lots and lots of them in my area. You receive the least traction on them in the wet and on hot days.

 

Here in Indiana, the tar they use begins to liquefy on hot days. Often it seems that the surface 'skin' of the snake is intact, but tends to be seeping from the edges (these are thick snakes), making the adventure a bit more adventuresome and messy.

 

 

[Mike05]

Tar snakes are REALLY scary ESPECIALLY if they have a very dark appearance. That means they are pretty new and haven't had the "shine" worn off them yet. Once they get a dull look, they are mostly OK..

That's what I thought 'til last weekend.

 

Six of us (all BMW's) went out last Saturday to shake off the winter & just ride on a nice spring-like day. Lot of dirt on the roads from two weeks of hard winter (I know, but this is Texas; at least it was dirt & not salt).

 

At lunch small talk gave way to how the roads seemed after the winter. To a person, everyone had some "pucker" moments in the curves. It seems many of the roads were "spot" repaired with fresh tar (not tar snakes, whole patches), especially in the corners. They didn't look like it because so much of the dirt laid down for better traction at the height of the winter storm(s) had settled on the "new" tar spots, making them look older then they were. We were taking it pretty easy anyway because of all the stuff on the road but when we saw the sign cautioning for new tar/road repairs it all made sense. Lesson learned.

 

As an aside, Toxie Beaver's "Biker Roadhouse" in the St Jo, Texas town square is closed for business. Sad to see; he always welcomed all biker's to stop by & visit. He'll be missed.

 

Lastly, Texas FM roads north of Rte. 82 appear pretty torn up; according to the local folk it's due to increased use by the gas/oil trucks in the area. Not as much fun as they use to be.

 

All-in-all, no matter what else, it was just great to get out & spend a day riding with friends for the first time this year.

[Mister Tee]

If I encounter tar snakes, I just slow down to normal speed and take it easy. Tar snakes are bad news in hot weather as mentioned, and they are just as bad if not worse traction wise in cold wet weather.

[SuperG]

... I just slow down to normal speed and take it easy....

 

This is a common sense approach..slow down a be careful.

 

My question is : what to do or what can be done?... if you are too late to slow down and too fast into the corner that is tar-snake infested?

What should be the correct rider response if the bike is not turning but sliding?

 

In my scenario the bike's tires were not catching any traction until I was almost off the pavement.

Correction : tires got some traction because I made the turn , but just barely.

 

So what is the correct procedure?

 

[Paul Mihalka]

I would say that if you are already sliding you missed the correct procedure . Preventive action is conservative speed and sharp lookout for the snakes and better spots between them. Often the edge of the roads have less snakes, so keeping a tight line close to the inner edge in a right turn may help. Once you are sliding, neutral throttle - no acceleration or engine braking - and hope.

[dirtrider]

Morning T.W.B.C.

 

Once you are really leaned over in a corner and pushing the envelope it is almost too late to deal with excessively slimy tar snakes. On blind curves that are tar snake infested all the way across the lane your best way to handle them is “LUCK”.

 

I live and ride in an area that typically has more tar snakes per mile than pavement so I have a pretty good background in dealing with them.

 

Rule number one—If you see tar snakes used on the road you are riding on then it should be no surprise they will also be in the curves and corners. Seeing as large heavy multi axle trucks drag wheels sideways in the sharper curves and corners there is a better than average chance the road is more torn up in the curves and corners than the straights so again expect more tar snakes in the sharper curves than the straights.

 

Rule number two—Hot days or morning doo/rain makes tar snakes even slipperier than on cold dry days.

 

Rule number three—Learn to read the signs of possible tar snake encounters in corners.

 

OK, now what to do IF you don’t pay attention to the 3 rules above.

 

First-- if you ride with disregard for the above rules ALWAYS ride with the best protective gear you can buy.

 

Next—Every time you ride, -- practice “quick” line changes while leaned over, practice quickly lifting the bike up straight then leaning it back over to complete a corner/curve. Practice multi apex curve/corner completion. Practice getting your body and head weight WAY inside on a curve while changing apex and line. (the more you can get your body weight inside on a curve the straighter the bike can stay upright and still corner).

 

If you are riding heads up you will have some visual on the tar snakes as you approach the curve/corner so brake as hard as possible with the bike straight up prior to releasing the brakes and leaning it over.

 

Once on the tar snakes and leaned over go loose on the bars and don’t chop the throttle. Look for pavement areas that look to have less tar and try to alter your line/lean to get the front tire there. If possible cross the tar snakes at 90° or at angles never ride along the length of a tar snake.

 

If you can get your speed down enough prior to and between the snakes you can square the corner off when you get a piece of higher traction pavement.

 

If you know they are there or coming up you can deal with them easier. If tar snakes catch you by surprise they are more difficult to deal with.

 

I do a lot of off road riding with some very high speeds on gravel, ruts, deep sand, etc. That seems to make on-road debris encounters much less demanding and less harrowing as riding fast-off road is a continual hazard avoidance.

 

[Redbrick]

Sometime back one of our bretheren posted that he sought out and practiced on tar snake roads.....Learning what the feel is and what to expect under controlled conditions and not as a surprise has value I think.....I've done that at times, but not on hot or wet days...

[racer7]

The most important aspect of cornering is preparing for the corner well before you get there so foot and body positions are set. If you develop the "prepare early" drill, you will also be seeing better into those turns and get the most warning. Newbie style cornering that includes late braking (OK for good riders), early apexing and mid corner downshifts is a recipe for trouble- it adds variables that distract the rider and can reduce traction and/or options. Work on the basic cornering drill and when you have it down, add evasive stuff mid turn with throttle still on at least some.

[Mister Tee]

If you aren't riding at the limit, you still have a little room to adjust your line. Ideally, anytime when you are confronted with a slippery surface, like a gravel patch, oil slick, tar snake, etc... you want to be upright, so if you can cross it in a straight line, it's no big deal. If you are in a heavy lean, don't panic if you slide a bit. As long as there is some good pavement on the other side of the tar snake(s), just keep a steady hand on the throttle, and you should regain traction.

[VinnyR11]

OK, I'm claiming ignorance here, and would like some help.

 

Maybe it's semantics, but I've been riding for 35 years or so and I've never understood the big issue with tar snakes. Maybe the definition is different in different areas of the country.

 

I always considered tar snakes as tar repairs in the road that were long and narrow, with "narrow" being the operative word. Also, there is always un-tarred decent surface between the snakes. 95% of the time you feel almost nothing. Leaned over in a turn on real hot days or in the wet the bike skips out, but it only skips out a few inches. Unsettling yes, but then you hit normal pavement and that's the end of it. There may be a few tar snakes in the road, but once you transition to the normal pavement that's easy enough to avoid another one.

 

Per the OP, "I leaned into it and turned the handlebar slightly as usual. The bike kept going straight. I leaned it more, no change". I just can't see that happening on a tar snake. In this case the entire surface was painted with "tar snakes inches apart" I think that sounds like more of a resurface issue than tar snakes.

 

I think we put way too much fear into riding over tar snakes and that can be the biggest cause of going down. If you don't panic over a tar snake, you're going to be fine.

 

EDIT: I read my post again and want to point out that I am not questioning the OP's story nor his/her riding ability. I only want to highlight.

1) I don't think this is a tar snake issue but rather a a resurface issue.

2) We should let riders, and especially new riders understand that tar snakes are not to be feared but rather we should know what to expect when going over them.

[Paul Mihalka]

Well, there are tar snakes and there are tar snakes. Traveling a lot you find roads on which you just skip from one tar snake to another. There are snakes much wider than they should be. If it is a nice tight twisty road you would like to have fun on, they are literally a pain in the butt. The only real remedy is slowing down.

[SuperG]

VinnyR11,

 

OP here.

I've been only riding 25 years and never felt the needed to mention tarsnakes. This time it was different.

As Paul mentioned there are different tarsnake infested roads. Most are fine , you get a little slip here and there then you are on your way.

 

This was in west Texas, the season was fall (hot) we were hauling back from our Bigbend camping trip.

West Texas still pumps oil from the ground and oil truck tear up the roads.

 

This road was mostly flat twisty, but with highspeed turns. We could see far ahead, there were only a few oil truck on this somewhat abandoned county road.

We were hauling but.

 

In the turn it was not just a slip, it was a series -or more like continuous slip as Paul mentioned, sliding from one snake to an other. What should have been a turn it not only felt like but the bike actually tried to go straight.

 

This post was about an extreme case of tarsnakes.

No doubt I/we should have rode slower and watch out for road conditions. But I did not.

Also no doubt the road needs reconditioning.

 

Look at the first picture.

Imagine the road surface like that, placed in a nice sweeper turn.

 

The second picture depicts my recollection what the turn looked like.

 

NOTE: the road leading to this turn was not tarsnaked, so I had no advanced notice.

I am guessing oil trucks haul butt on this road , enter the turn fast and damage the road. Repair crew went heavy with tar in this turn .

 

 

 

 

[David13]

Tar snakes have been known to get quite a few riders, some fatally.

There was some talk about trying to get them outlawed and letters have been written, in Northern California.

In heat they tend to get mushy, but don't seem to dangerous to me.

But the real danger of them may be in the cold. With a bit of condensation on them.

dc

[VinnyR11]

VinnyR11,

 

OP here.

I've been only riding 25 years and never felt the needed to mention tarsnakes. This time it was different.

As Paul mentioned there are different tarsnake infested roads. Most are fine , you get a little slip here and there then you are on your way.

 

This was in west Texas, the season was fall (hot) we were hauling back from our Bigbend camping trip.

West Texas still pumps oil from the ground and oil truck tear up the roads.

 

This road was mostly flat twisty, but with highspeed turns. We could see far ahead, there were only a few oil truck on this somewhat abandoned county road.

We were hauling but.

 

In the turn it was not just a slip, it was a series -or more like continuous slip as Paul mentioned, sliding from one snake to an other. What should have been a turn it not only felt like but the bike actually tried to go straight.

 

This post was about an extreme case of tarsnakes.

No doubt I/we should have rode slower and watch out for road conditions. But I did not.

Also no doubt the road needs reconditioning.

 

Look at the first picture.

Imagine the road surface like that, placed in a nice sweeper turn.

 

The second picture depicts my recollection what the turn looked like.

 

NOTE: the road leading to this turn was not tarsnaked, so I had no advanced notice.

I am guessing oil trucks haul butt on this road , enter the turn fast and damage the road. Repair crew went heavy with tar in this turn .

 

 

 

 

Those photos clear it up for me. Thanks. I can see where it's just an incredible abundance of tar snakes on the same strip. In a turn it could very well make it exciting.

 

I guess I just never ran across a turn where it was loaded like that. No clue what they think they are saving over the long term by surfacing the road like that.

[David13]

They are trying to save the life of the road. The tar snakes are covering cracks in the road, which, if left unsealed would allow water to enter and undermine the base of the road, which in turn accelerates the deterioration of the road, and the opening of larger pot holes.

Which, if it gets bad enough, results in the need to replace the entire road.

So they are trying to slow down the deterioration process.

dc

[Carl_T]

It's also occasionally an education issue in proper application for the person applying the snakes. They are not supposed to be applied over wide and endlessly applied in parallel fashion, but, sometimes they are.I had run across a road with some 15 inch wide single ones for a goodly distance right in the turns, also been on a road with at least 7 parallel ones, with and inch or mostly less in between, making for a nearly 30 inch wide swath of danger. Other roads like the photo above.

 

When properly applied it's normally a little wiggle/slip at worst, which is no biggie. However if you are on a road that has them. PLEASE do be alert for possible dangerously applied, over wide ones, as it does happen, and it is dangerous. Slow down and miss those.

[David13]

I like to feel that I am killing them, if I ride over them.

I have seen roads with more tar snake than road.

dc

[VinnyR11]

They are trying to save the life of the road. The tar snakes are covering cracks in the road, which, if left unsealed would allow water to enter and undermine the base of the road, which in turn accelerates the deterioration of the road, and the opening of larger pot holes.

Which, if it gets bad enough, results in the need to replace the entire road.

So they are trying to slow down the deterioration process.

dc

 

I understand the reasoning behind tar snakes, it's just that in the photos shown the road is already shot and IMO the public would be better served by repaving that section.

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Actually that section pictured doesn’t look as bad as a lot we have up north here. At least they are flat and dry looking. By looking at the picture there does look to be a decent line though that area to hit some of the major unmolested road. Will take a double or triple apex to get through it though.

 

Some of the road repairs in my area leave raised and gooey tar snakes that stick above the road surface and get smeared around. The last few years if we are lucky they will toss a little sand on the fresh tar to give it a little traction when wet. Problem is they are supposed to use high pressure compressed air to blow the excess sand away but in a lot of cases they just leave the sand all over the road.

 

[David13]

Vinny

Budget cuts. Lower taxes. Without getting into the political aspects, ... etc.

dc

[CoarsegoldKid]

California applies tar snakes differently depending on which Cal Trans region or workers are doing them. Some areas have thick wiggly ones we dislike to ride over in summer. Some areas have sand applied and brushed in and provide traction. Hwy 49 between Mariposa and Coulterville is an example of proper application- this week.

[James Clark]

California applies tar snakes differently depending on which Cal Trans region or workers are doing them. Some areas have thick wiggly ones we dislike to ride over in summer. Some areas have sand applied and brushed in and provide traction. Hwy 49 between Mariposa and Coulterville is an example of proper application- this week.

 

And some just pound pothole filler into the cracks.

[ragtoplvr]

We have what is called chip and seal. They spray hot tar all over the road the then pour lose rock chips in it. Let the cars pack it in, then a few weeks later (maybe) they sweep it.

 

As if that is not slick enough, in the summer the tar melts and pools on top, you have a effective 2 foot wide by miles long tar snake in each tire path in the road.

 

They are dangerous and unpredictable, I have scars to prove it.

 

Rod

[Carl_T]

Yeah, they chip & seal a lot here too, only NEVER any sweeping involved. Always a joy to come around a blind turn or over a blind hill and find they've just sealed and chipped, applied the stone 2 to 3 inches deep, and not bothered to put signage up as a warning. That surface is Hades on tires as well after it sets up. Good traction if the tar doesn't pool, but eats rubber.

[Pat Buzzard]

A few years back they did that to my entire road... NOT COOL!

[Sonor]

"chip seal" is what took me out last year. I was in VA - a side road to one of the Blue Ridge Mountains and I came up on an S curve that went up the hill. As I approached the first corner of the S (signs said 15 mph) I saw gravel in the corner. I slowed big time and made it through. I straightened, looked over the next corner, down shifted to first and picked my exit point. As I started into the corner I realized the road surface while appearing to be fine was one deep sheet of gravel. The bike laid down on top of my left ankle resulting in six breaks. What bugs me is that there were no signs telling you there was gravel ahead. I was wearing Alpinstars boots and they did their job to protect from no twist but they were the less expensive kind and not geared to protect from an impact break. Needless to say, the BMW MOA book came in REAL handy that day.

 

Gravel and tar really suck - I can't imagine a corner with tar snakes. One day I will I am sure.

[Carl_T]

Lots of Tar snakes from winter cracking in the Northeast.

 

A few years ago I was leading a group and following a white haired old lady in a car over a mountain road. She was pretty much going real slow most especially for the many turns, and no reasonable passing opportunities were presenting for us yet, plus I had another number of bikes behind me so I was chilling back behind her. Though I was pulling up closer occasionally when it looked like a passing opportunity might be coming up.

 

Well, we came to a bit straighter section and she really sped up to quite a hefty clip for that little narrow road, though probably only 55mph or so.

 

I was pacing behind her at a normal following distance at this point, happy to be going along nicely enough and wondering what prompted her pace change. In a very short time we topped a rise with a drop away hill and right away I saw a sudden huge cloud of dust behind her. I found myself in 2 and 3 inch deep chip and seal, mostly chip, and less seal, and thick chip with me at still a pretty good pace for that.

 

I and the guy behind slowed gently and the rest managed OK as well, so all was well as she disappeared in a high fog bank of dust. After the chip and seal, we never saw here again, so she must have lived up a side road in the area and knew what was coming. Guess us following must have annoyed her, and it was Grandma's revenge time.

 

I'm sure she was having a real good laugh over that one. I do when thinking back on it. Guess I should have given her even more following distance :-D

[KDeline]

This is simply why I will not ride like I did in my teens and twentys. You look through a curve and miss this kind of stuff, so now I just slow down for every curve and watch the road. Saves money and skin.

[SuperG]

OP here,

 

Today it was about 85 degrees here in Texas, I stopped at the intersection and put my boots on the ground, my boot started to slide out. I looked down and I was stepping on top of a 6 inch tar snake. I never noticed it before at this intersection.

Most of the snakes you just ride over and never know it is there.

 

You group a bunch of snakes together in a high speed turn you add some solar heat and got your self an adrenalin pumping riding day.

I strongly agree wiht Kdeline, "I will slow down and save some skin and money"

[rad]

As if that is not slick enough, in the summer the tar melts and pools on top, you have a effective 2 foot wide by miles long tar snake in each tire path in the road.

That sounds crazy, something is wrong. Our chip seal roads provide fantastic traction, they do eats tires. No oil seeps back up months later or in hot weather on our roads.

 

Every mountain road I ride every day in the Santa Cruz Mountains is chip seal. It is a pain for a few weeks when redone, and then it is great. You do always have to watch for loose material, gravel, that can accumulate near the double yellow and the road edge.

 

Email or call your local Public Works Dept, talk to them, find out why they do it the way they do.

 

Now, tar snakes, that is another story.