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Liquid cooling and heating?


EddyQ

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These folks at Cool Shirt have liquid cooled vests, pants and other garments that apparently have lots of uses including motorcycling. It is costly ! Far more than a mesh jacket or evaporative type cooling gear.

 

My question is, has anyone thought of heating with this technique? Seems to me, there are lots of places to get heat off the bike. My RT has a oil cooler hose where a heat exchanger could be added. Heat and cooling would take down the initial investment quite a bit.

 

Along these lines, I found some really nice quality components for building such a system here: FrozenCPU

 

There are even leak-proof quick disconnects

qdc_pair_disconnected%5B1%5D.jpg

Shown Koolance Connectors.

 

I thought it would be a cool project. Wondering if anyone else has attempted to do this?

 

Heating hands and feet might get interesting, but it should be possible with a little thought.

 

 

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Joe Frickin' Friday

Although waste heat from the engine is free, it's much easier (and not terribly expensive, fuel-wise) to use electrical heating rather than trying to salvage the aforementioned waste heat. Liquid hoses must be leak-free; you can crack/pierce the insulation on an electric wire with no serious issues, but if you crack a water hose in your jacket, you've got a problem.

 

Although thermoelectric coolers are available for CPU's and general refrigeration, I think this technology would be difficult to incorporate into a jacket. So if you absolutely have to have an actively cooled riding jacket, liquid is probably the best way to go, and you just accept the issues that come with that.

 

But for heating? Electric is awfully hard to beat.

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Electric heat is likely much more uniform heat, less bulky and can survive internal wires opening up without loosing the warmth everywhere else. That's some pretty hard to beat features.

 

But, you need both cool weather and hot weather gear. I guess other than cost, this may not be an issue. How often would I need both on a trip?

 

Just thinking you could reuse the liquid cooled suit for winter use. Rather than tap heat from the engine, you also could have a remote electric heater to add warmth to the liquid.

 

Just thinking here Mitch. As you say, liquid cooling is likely ideal, but has issues. It would be very nice to not sweat this summer. I doubt I have the time to build a system. :P

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Evening Eddy

 

Honda has been fooling with a motorcycle air conditioning system for quite a while. It even has a A/C compressor and Freon system. Not sure on the specifics but from the little info I have seen on it the cool air is pumped to a special cooling suit through air transfer hoses so the evaporator core must be mounted in the bike somewhere.

 

On the liquid heating aspect. Years ago some of the snowmobile companies were working on some liquid heating such as seats and handlebar grips. Sounded good at the time as engines had very minimal charging systems. As the engine electrical output was increased to run better lighting and fuel injection the electrical heated vests and clothing stole the show as it was easier to plumb, didn’t leak, didn’t burn in a crash, much simpler to install.

 

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Although waste heat from the engine is free, it's much easier (and not terribly expensive, fuel-wise) to use electrical heating rather than trying to salvage the aforementioned waste heat. Liquid hoses must be leak-free; you can crack/pierce the insulation on an electric wire with no serious issues, but if you crack a water hose in your jacket, you've got a problem.

 

Although thermoelectric coolers are available for CPU's and general refrigeration, I think this technology would be difficult to incorporate into a jacket. So if you absolutely have to have an actively cooled riding jacket, liquid is probably the best way to go, and you just accept the issues that come with that.

 

But for heating? Electric is awfully hard to beat.

 

#9 --- http://lifehacker.com/#!5752664/top-10-diy-hacks-that-could-poke-your-eye-out

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Honda has been fooling with a motorcycle air conditioning system for quite a while. It even has a A/C compressor and Freon system. Not sure on the specifics but from the little info I have seen on it the cool air is pumped to a special cooling suit through air transfer hoses so the evaporator core must be mounted in the bike somewhere.

 

I think tapping cooling off the engine is a non starter. Too complex, bulky, HP robbing . . . But, I haven't done the math.

I was thinking of a small cooler with ice. 1Kg of ice has 334Kj of latent energy. That's 93 Watts for an hour. Also, to bring 1Kg water from 32 degrees to 95 degrees is another 40 Watts of cooling for one hour. After it melts, drip the water onto a radiator which captures some of the evaporative cooling. There is 627 Watts for an hour of evaporative cooling energy locked up in 1Kg of water.

Unlocking all this energy efficiently in a small, cheap system would be a challenge. But a small cooler could easily hold 5 - 10Kg of ice. That should cool you for many hours and may have a cold beer when your ride is done! :grin:

 

Sounded good at the time as engines had very minimal charging systems. As the engine electrical output was increased to run better lighting and fuel injection the electrical heated vests and clothing stole the show as it was easier to plumb, didn’t leak, didn’t burn in a crash, much simpler to install.

 

I think the major benefit to electric heat systems over liquid heat systems is related to physical size and bulk. Tubing, water storage and pumps are big and bulky compared to wiring. And that benny is huge. But electrics cannot cool efficiently.

 

Electrics have issues with reliability too. Tubes leak, but often can be fixed on the road. Circuits open leaving the system dead. Ever had a heated grip die? Electrics have more connections and a controller that can fail. But, a liquid system has an electric pump (or two) that can fail. The liquid system may also have an electric controller, but this could also be a simple thermo valve or manual needle valve. Tubing can melt. So can wire insulation resulting in short circuits, blown fuses or fire. Both systems have pros/cons relative to reliability. I think a liquid system could be designed to be just as reliable/maintainable. Ironically, being an electrical engineer, I am biased towards a quality well engineered mechanical solution. :/

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Interesting Eddy. I expect to see your prototype at the next Yankeebeemer breakfast meeting :)

 

I was hoping to get some hoses from you hosers next breakfast . . . :rofl:

Just kidding Brian. You bet I will bring it to a breakfast when/if built.

 

My dad during retirement sews boat tops and cushions. All I need is the right hose and I bet I could get a vest or jacket pretty darn quick. Cool-Shirt says they use 45ft of hose in there t-shirt. I'm thinking I need sleeves so I need a bit more. Any thoughts? Those 1/4" CPU cooling hoses seem too big (IMO).

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These are the kind of issues one rarely deals with here in FL. :clap: Though the cooling thing would be nice in August while in stop & go traffic.

My concern is how easily could you separate from the tubing in the event of bike/rider separation?

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Interesting thread....got me to wonder how hard it would be to build a thermoelectric cooler for a helmet........

 

Probably could be done. But thermoelectric cooling devices have horrid efficiency. From Mitch's link, I think it says 10-20%. So to get 10 Watts of cooling, you may need 50 to 100Watts of electric power. AND, since you are delivering that much electric power to the device, this power must be removed in the form of heat or it will burn up. In other words, the hot side of this device needs to have a heat sink capable of removing 50-100 Watts plus the 10W from the cold side. Also, if I recall, the efficiency gets worse if the hot side gets hot. That means a rather big heat sink is required. You would be better to drip water on your helmet and let the evaporative cooling do its thing.

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Eddy,

 

I started working on a DIY kit last summer but its been on hold for one reason and the other. Problem is sourcing aftermarket parts cheap enough so that the total project cost doesnt make an off-the peg system more worthwhile. I would advise you that attaching all that pipework to a vest is only to be attempted if you have an exceess of time and patience...

 

You can see my progress here-

http://65.38.186.184/forums/showthread.php?t=3456

 

Hope thats some inspiration!

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Oh, for a heat-exchange, I would use copper brake pipe or vacuum pipe as its narrow bore and you can bend it to a tight radius without kinking. I thought about behind the oil cooler, but behind the cylinders/under the ABS unit, or just anywhere close to/touching the engine casing should give enough heat transfer. You could also mount just above the CAT, but may need to experiment so that the system doesnt overheat. If you look at my system with the reservoir- a reservoir is a good idea as it will even out fluctuations in the heat entering the system.

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