TEWKS Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 While looking at Mark's post on the new K16GT I see some pics of an updated Wing for 2012. Nice looks but, will it be enough to fix the broken fence that the new GTL smashed through? The 2012 Wing. Pat Link to comment
VinnyR11 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 For whatever reason, I never liked the Gold Wings, but the GT/GTL look surprisingly nice IMO. With two such entrenched camps, I wonder how much cross shopping is really done by the Beemer/Wing crowds. I'm sure there is a heck of a lot of looking, but I'll bet there is little cross buying. Caveat: These thoughts are based on the zero research, 100% gut feel but perhaps accurate method of statistical research. Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The people who are already in a Honda, BMW or Harley Ultra mind set are not very likely to change camp. The interesting prospects are the ones who plan to get into the luxury tourer market and look around to see which one is the most attractive to them. A big influence is what are their friends riding, and there Gold Wing and Harley has a big advantage simply by numbers. Link to comment
Lmar Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Doesn't look much different than my 03 Wing. Its still going to be heavy and boring. Link to comment
Joe Frickin' Friday Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Doesn't look much different than my 03 Wing. Indeed. The two-tone paint job is new, but apart from that I'd have to see a '12 Wing next to an '11 Wing to spot the differences. Link to comment
TEWKS Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Are you bagging me or what? A look that's gonna take a bit to digest. Hey, she sounded beautiful on the phone! Pat Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 While looking at Mark's post on the new K16GT I see some pics of an updated Wing for 2012. Nice looks but, will it be enough to fix the broken fence that the new GTL smashed through?Seriously? GWs will probably outsell the K16s ten to one in North America. Link to comment
kmac Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think they are 2 different markets...related markets, but different. GW= Luxury touring couch limo. Great for what it was built and usable for other things. GTL= Sport tourer tourable rocket. Great for canyons, back roads, and usable for touring and distance riding. They can both be used for the same purposes, but each one excells on different parts of the spectrum. I prefer the sportier riding and back roads, so my RT or maybe a GTL if money were no object would be more my tool of choice. I've said before, bikes are like hammers. Different hammers for different jobs. A framing hammer and a ball peen hammer can, in a pinch, both be used to do the same task. You can shape metal with a framing hammer, but it will be rough when finished and require alot of effort to do it. You can also pound in a nail with a ball peen hammer, but you will likely bend a few nails doing it because of the slightly domed and smooth faced head of the ball and peen sides of the hammer. The key is, if you can only afford 1 hammer, you have to figure out what you want to do the most, or need to do the most, and purchase the right hammer. Link to comment
Lmar Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 In response to: Poster: NonComp Subject: Re: Not quite enough from Honda? Quote: While looking at Mark's post on the new K16GT I see some pics of an updated Wing for 2012. Nice looks but, will it be enough to fix the broken fence that the new GTL smashed through? Seriously? GWs will probably outsell the K16s ten to one in North America. Your probably right, at least for the first year or so. It will depend on what happens during the first few years the K16's are out. I don't see too many Goldwing riders trading in for a 2012, unless they are riding a 5 or 6 year old one. The rest will be waiting for the completely new version. If and whenever that one comes out. Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The people who are already in a Honda, BMW or Harley Ultra mind set are not very likely to change camp. The interesting prospects are the ones who plan to get into the luxury tourer market and look around to see which one is the most attractive to them. A big influence is what are their friends riding, and there Gold Wing and Harley has a big advantage simply by numbers. My guess is that Honda figures it has a few more years left with the current demographic that buys Gold Wings whereas BMW is being proactive by designing and building a bike that appeals to a younger crowd. As far as winning over riders from other brands, I have a friend that had an Ultra and he is very intrigued with the GTL. The biggest resistance for cruiser types to buy into anything like this is that they don't even test ride such a bike. I did and it was a revelation. I honestly think some of them are afraid to change and refuse to try anything new. Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 There is a lot of rigid mindset out there. As I'm in a BMW/HD etc. shop I see it. They come look at the BMW bike, marvel at the things it has, than sit on it. - Oh, I can't ride like this. How can I put my feet forward? No highway pegs? End of story. Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 There is a lot of rigid mindset out there. As I'm in a BMW/HD etc. shop I see it. They come look at the BMW bike, marvel at the things it has, than sit on it. - Oh, I can't ride like this. How can I put my feet forward? No highway pegs? End of story. You should ask them if they get gynecological exams during each ride, or are they just practicing the delivery of a baby? Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think they are 2 different markets...related markets, but different.I agree. Goldwings are the 'gold' standard in luxury touring bikes. I don't know the numbers, but I suspect that the luggage volume on the GW is a fair bit larger than the GTL. GWs appeal to the two-up crowd who don't want to leave anything at home. I see more GWs pulling trailers than any other type of bike, for just that reason. Yet it can still be fun in the twisties. And GWs have a stronger resale value than any other bike that I see on the used bike market. Even 15 year old GWs. That says a lot. Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 There is a lot of rigid mindset out there. As I'm in a BMW/HD etc. shop I see it. They come look at the BMW bike, marvel at the things it has, than sit on it. - Oh, I can't ride like this. How can I put my feet forward? No highway pegs? End of story. You should ask them if they get gynecological exams during each ride, or are they just practicing the delivery of a baby? That's tough to do if you try to sell them a bike Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think they are 2 different markets...related markets, but different.I agree. Goldwings are the 'gold' standard in luxury touring bikes. I don't know the numbers, but I suspect that the luggage volume on the GW is a fair bit larger than the GTL. GWs appeal to the two-up crowd who don't want to leave anything at home. I see more GWs pulling trailers than any other type of bike, for just that reason. Yet it can still be fun in the twisties. And GWs have a stronger resale value than any other bike that I see on the used bike market. Even 15 year old GWs. That says a lot. I thought HDs sold themselves. As long as you believe, right? Link to comment
ddlewis Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 There is a lot of rigid mindset out there. As I'm in a BMW/HD etc. shop I see it. They come look at the BMW bike, marvel at the things it has, than sit on it. - Oh, I can't ride like this. How can I put my feet forward? No highway pegs? End of story. I have a rigid mindset the other way.. If footpegs aren't directly below my butt - see ya later. Link to comment
dhanson Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 My last HD was a FXDX with forward controls. I was going to change them back to standard as soon as I could settle on the kit. Got used to it, ended up keeping them and like it. Next bike was the K12GT, big change in lots of ways. I used to love to see a group of HDs up the road, and spin up to about 120 as I went by. I was bad. Link to comment
fourteenfour Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 While it is disappointing that they did not do a full update with new motor and drop weight its not like the K1600 interests me one bit either. I don't need a monster bike to enjoy the road. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Judging from the two early reviews of the K16 that I've read, this topic might need to be retitled Not quite enough from BMW? Link to comment
Lmar Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 n response to: Poster: CommuterChris Subject: Re: Not quite enough from Honda? While it is disappointing that they did not do a full update with new motor and drop weight its not like the K1600 interests me one bit either. I don't need a monster bike to enjoy the road. I agree. I like the weight of the RT for handling and ease of movement in the parking lot and garage. I really don't want to go back to an 800 lb bike like my previous Goldwing. Link to comment
AdirondackJack Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 The thing is, Mr. Ash's take on the GT/GTL is certainly interesting and worth reading. I know that when I read a review of a new movie that's just come out and the reviewer didn't like it, invariably I go see the movie and it turns out great. Don't know if the analogy applies to new motorcycles, but I (for one) will hold my opinion till I can see and drive one of these in person and make up my own mind. Just because I can't afford one, doesn't mean the curiosity in me is completely dead. Also, your mind is like a parachute. . . . . . .it only works when it is open. Remember, Ash is just one person, with a single opinion (which he is certainly entitled to). Frankly, I am much more interested in the cross section of opinions from people on this forum, once they have had an adequate opportunity to experience the GT/GTL and report back to all of us sitting on the sidelines wanting to experience this new machine, vicariously. I think the jury is still out with respect to whether the GT/GTL will prove to be as much of an "appliance" as the Old Wing, or not. Peace! Link to comment
SuperG Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Well said Mr. Jack. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment
Deadboy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm not in the market for a luxo touring bike (yet) but if I was the goldwing would be at the top of the list.....everything else just falls short.....and the dealer network is pretty hard to beat. As for the people who seem to think they don't handle I think you are thinking of the 1500....the 1800 (with a suspension upgrade for a lot less $$ then I spent to do the shocks on my RT) is no slouch.... Link to comment
Indy Dave Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It's hard to quantify the rolling acceleration gripe without some figures. Apart from the poster who claims he accelerates from 35 in 6th gear(!) on his RT, I find managing the proper gear on my RT a given - keeping the rev's up if I a want a quick burst of acceleration in city traffic. It's just part of the learned set of parameters that one operates ANY bike with and comes naturally after a ride or two. Not a make or break issue in and of itself, IMO. Link to comment
AdirondackJack Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Points well made Mr. "Angels". As for the "Old Wing" experience Mr. Deadboy, I can say that having owned the new incarnation of the 1800, it is (regrettably) more of a heavy, uninteresting appliance than I had hoped. I tried everything to make it more interesting, including Racetech gold valve cartridges and progressive springs in the suspension. I even installed an electric windshield on that monster. In the end, I realized that I was trying to turn the wing into a BMW and capitulated and bought the real thing. No disrespect intended, just that "been there, done that, got the tee shirt". Before I sold it I even took it through a Lee Parks Total Control course, and as an MSF Instructor with 47 years of active motorcycle riding experience, I can tell you that the Goldwing continues to be very reliable, not very interesting to ride, and (IMHO) doesn't compare in the riding experience to my BMW. Granted, most of the other kids on the block have them and there are dealers everywhere, but what's the fun in that. Live a little. What could be more fun than being stranded with the EWS ring problem on the Great Wall of China and having to get out your comprehensive, home made tool kit and install a new ring yourself under the light of the moon, surrounded by Chi-com insurgents with AK 47's pointed at you. Isn't that the BMW way? Come on. Live a little on the edge! Peace. Dave R. Link to comment
OlGeezer Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm not in the market for a luxo touring bike (yet) but if I was the goldwing would be at the top of the list.....everything else just falls short.....and the dealer network is pretty hard to beat. As for the people who seem to think they don't handle I think you are thinking of the 1500....the 1800 (with a suspension upgrade for a lot less $$ then I spent to do the shocks on my RT) is no slouch.... Blasphemy! Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I didn't know you can ride a motorcycle on the great wall... Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I can't. Too much avoirdupois. Link to comment
tallman Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You can jump over it on a skateboard. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Fair enough, Jack. You are correct. However, I felt that the premise of the original poster of this topic was a bit flawed, assuming that BMW has built a better Wing. And wasn't that the original objective stated by Motorad? As you said, you realized that you bought the wrong bike for you (GL1800) and that the BMW is a different machine built for a different style of riding. I think you're right. And I think that's the reason why GW owners or prospective GW owners are not likely to be interested in the K16. And Honda still has a reputation for reliablity that is tough to beat. The K16 may compete with the GW in Europe (if it is offered there) but may not compete in N. America. Different market. What I know is that I can buy a low mileage LT (BMWs last crack at the GW) for 50 cents (or less) on the dollar around here. But used GL1800's (if you can find one with low mileage) still command the highest resale value of any other bike that I see. And I thought that the LT was more like the GW than the K16 seems to be. Of course, YMMV. Link to comment
RideTN Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 goldwings are capable machines with the right rider. Link to comment
KeithS Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 For the GW crowd I'm not sure how wearing sneakers, shorts, and a rally pin/patch vest will work on a GTL. Link to comment
AdirondackJack Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hey Mr. RideTN: During the Lee Parks Total Control course I scraped pegs and layed that great big monster right over. Had a blast. Only thing was, I just know that it would have been different, and more of an exercise in pushing the envelope on my RT. Believe me, them folks were flabbergasted as to what I was able to accomplish on that wing. Link to comment
dhanson Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Our MSF course (basic and advanced) was taught (still is) by a short dude on a GW. He drags both sides on the figure eight in the box drill. The bike has pivoting drink holder, full rear seat with arm rest, bags plus loads of other touring stuff on it. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I took an advanced riding course with these guys. That's one of the instructors. They are moto police trainers in Victoria, BC. He's riding a student's Wing. You can hear the floorboards dragging... Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Has anyone ever done Ride Like a Pro? Link to comment
AdirondackJack Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Don't you just love watching riders with good motor skills! Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It's both amazing and depressing. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It's both amazing and depressing.Nah. It's just different strokes for different folks. Link to comment
2wheel Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think the "new" Wing is just stopgap yet while they develop the next one. ALl they did was alter the plastic, add some luggage space and minor niggle fixes. NIce that they listen to some of the riders out there about such things but if anyone thinks this is the end of the development line for the Wing I suspect you are wrong. My bet is that a new ground up (or nearly so) Wing is still being developed and perhaps a 2015 model. That said, the new BMW's are interesting beasts at thier price points. HOw is it the new 1600 costs THE SAME as an RT outfitted the same? I see RT's msrp'd at 20k plus some change and the GT1600 is now 20k plus some change....something has to give...Also has anyone seen the maintenance schedule/requirements for the 1600 yet? I havent seen those mentioned. The boxer just dropped a notch in my book with "take it to the shop" valve maintenance vs the parking lot ability of older models. If the 1600 isnt in Wing territory with 36k mile valve services then cost of ownership (and downtime for riders) will be another tale to be told to "long riders with stuffed bears". Course, what to I know riding a Harley at the moment enjoying the dark side creature comforts. But I am a bike whore, willing to ride anything (and own just about anything) at least once...not a brand maven. If Guzzi had ANY kind of dealer network to give me warm fuzzies that might be my next taste of cycling. Barring that, if the 1600 has decent maintenance expectations, who knows? Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think the MSRP prices are higher on the K16 then the intro prices currently offered. In terms of service intervals, I don't know, but I recently ran across a how-to article in the Owners News on changing the oil on a K13. It ran to 8 pages (with pictures) and detailed the removal of lower plastic, sidestand and bracket, vaccuum pump to drain the oil tank, making funnels out of plastic to drain the oil in the crankcase around the hot header pipes, etc. I'm thinking that the K16 isn't likely to be a DIY friendly bike either. Be interesting to hear what a first major service would cost on a K16. Link to comment
2wheel Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Good point on the introduction pricing..that is what will give then it will be interesting what the real prices are. Now the WIng is no picnic for service either I hear...even an air filter is a major PITA requiring plastic spread over a half your garage....funny no one is talking about service (even BMW) as any kind of selling point on the new K16. Then again, BMW usually means if you have to ask or worry about cost of purchase or ownership you dont belong. Harley has the first one covered also but since their engine technology dates to the 50s service isnt an issue. Honda just makes theirs so you can run it and forget it or go in every couple years, your choice. In any event a K16 day long test ride could be a hoot. We could have a test riders "bag the states" contest. Link to comment
TEWKS Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Well that didn't take long, warming up to the minor makeover already. Pat Link to comment
Selden Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The boxer just dropped a notch in my book with "take it to the shop" valve maintenance vs the parking lot ability of older models. I don't understand. The OHC boxer engine uses bucket shims instead of screw adjusters, but it's still a job that can be done by the owner -- and the recommended inspection interval is double that of the pushrod boxers. On the other hand, valve adjustment on an inline 6 is not something I would want to take on -- and you can bet that a dealer is going to charge more (but probably not 3 times as much) than for a boxer. Link to comment
Roadwolf Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Still don't like what they have done with the Wing (saw it in the flesh in Feb and was majorly disappointed)... boring update and really don't care for the dual colors... looks cheap. I think this is just a holdover for a couple of years until they get their heads on straight having moved production to Japan. Link to comment
Dave_C Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 While looking at Mark's post on the new K16GT I see some pics of an updated Wing for 2012. Nice looks but, will it be enough to fix the broken fence that the new GTL smashed through? The 2012 Wing. Pat wow...bold new graphics! Looks about the same as the old 'wing Link to comment
UberXY Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 A long time Wing rider friend of mine is very disappointed with the '12, so he is going with me next month to test ride the GTL. My understanding is that prices on the pre-order K16s in the US may be subsidized by BMW, as are the US prices on the RRs. Link to comment
Roadwolf Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 My understanding is that prices on the pre-order K16s in the US may be subsidized by BMW, as are the US prices on the RRs. Say what? Never heard that one... where did you get this info? Link to comment
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