Harleys

[Secret Buzzard]

Another recent thread got me to thinking about the difference between BMWs and Harleys. We all know what kind of vehicles BMW make, cars and bikes both have cutting edge electronics, modern styling, crisp handling, etc. My thoughts were: what would a car made by Harley be like today? I picture it being styled like a '57 Chevy with lots of chrome and an enormous pushrod motor. What do you think?

[tallman]

[Secret Buzzard]

That ain't no Harley! They just bought the name and the stickers.

[roadscholar]

I have a black t-shirt with a caricature of a B-25 on the front with chain-driven propellers. On the back it says, "If Harley made an airplane would you fly in it?"

 

Thinking about wearing it to bike week. If you don't hear back, you'll know what happened.

[tallman]

That ain't no Harley! They just bought the name and the stickers.

 

Exactly.

Google Harley Dealers and you'll find more than one that just sell apparel and non motorcycle accessories.

 

Much of the HD success is consistent brand marketing.

 

Seen a pickup with the HD logo on the rear window lately?

[Secret Buzzard]

My question is more "what would a designed and built by Harley car look like?"

[kmac]

It would look like a fenderless '27 ford T bucket, but all plastic, with a '67 VW beetle motor {air cooled, pushrod} 21" skinny front tires on it, 15" rear rims w/fat tires, Chrome shocks, and plastic chrome pieces covering everything and chrome TAPE over the frame.

[SuperG]

It would also have a springer-like front end, spoked wheels,

AND lets not forget the leather dingle-berries (or what ever they called) on the steering wheel.

May be leather studded seats.

And optional straight unrestricted exhaust pipes in the trunk with quick lock connectors to swap out when you leave the gated community.

 

I think it would look OK, no?

[Dave39]

[Paul Mihalka]

I have a black t-shirt with a caricature of a B-25 on the front with chain-driven propellers. On the back it says, "If Harley made an airplane would you fly in it?"

 

Thinking about wearing it to bike week. If you don't hear back, you'll know what happened.

T-shirt hijack and I know I posted it a few years ago - seen in Daytona many years back: IF YOU DON'T OWN A HARLEY, YOU AIN'T $HIT!

My question was: If you own one, you are?

[kmac]

 

Paul rocks....best OLD guy EVER...I wann be like you when I grow up.

[upflying]

I'd take the '57 Chevy with lots of chrome and a big noisy rat motor spewing global warming threatening hydrocarbons over a modern BMW car. Which one is worth more or to put it another way, which one will appreciate?

Park a modern BMW next to a '57 Chevy, which one gets noticed?

Which one can be tuned with a feeler gauge, timing light and screwdriver?

Which owner knows how to work on cars and which one knows how to swipe a credit card when the car needs service?

 

 

[SuperG]

Upflying... interesting analogy, however I don't think we are or we can go backward with technology.

 

Why use a calculator or a computer , when you can use one of these.

 

it never needs electricity nor will it run out of battery

If you get good at it you can even add some number together with it. I can't.

 

A 57 Chevy is cool to you because it resurrects memories. It is not cool to my kids compare to a BMW. A car with bluetooth connection capability, radio sync to ipod touch screen radio/nav xm all built in and on an on is much more interesting.

 

Soon we won't repair anything. we throw it away and buy a new one. ---> look at cell phones.

[4wheeldog]

Which owner knows how to work on cars and which one knows how to swipe a credit card when the car needs service?

 

(Slight hijack)

Years ago (Just long enough that Bimmers still had distributors) I was going to an aquaintance's house, and found his car just ouside of his driveway. When I asked what was wrong, he didn't know, it just quit. I offered to take a look.

Very quickly, I found that the clamp bolt at the base of the distributor was loose, and the distributor and popped up, and dropped back in, way out of phase. I rolled the motor over to TDC, pointed the rotor at #1, and told him to fire it up. He said, "Is that a good idea? This is a BMW, you know." I told him that, "Yes, I know, and the wheels go round and round, and the pistons go up and down, just like every other car I have ever worked on". He was shocked when it fired up, and ran OK just like it should oughta.

[Alan D]

Upflying... interesting analogy, however I don't think we are or we can go backward with technology.

 

Why use a calculator or a computer , when you can use one of these.

 

it never needs electricity nor will it run out of battery

If you get good at it you can even add some number together with it. I can't.

 

A 57 Chevy is cool to you because it resurrects memories. It is not cool to my kids compare to a BMW. A car with bluetooth connection capability, radio sync to ipod touch screen radio/nav xm all built in and on an on is much more interesting.

 

Soon we won't repair anything. we throw it away and buy a new one. ---> look at cell phones.

 

I just user fingers and toes. My mom said I came with them!

[leikam]

Modern Harleys are well made. The build quality is high. They go for a classic design feel and are wed to an inefficient engine, but within those constraints, the bikes fit their intended use well.

 

In car terms, it's more like a modern build of an older-style car. The brand image fits nicely with the Ford pickup but the bikes are more like one of the new Ford Thunderbirds.

[David13]

You mean the new Ford Thunderbird that was discontinued in 2005? The one where the last year they made them was 2005?

dc

[upflying]

Ok if HD made a modern car, I'm thinking retro looks, classic engine sound, traditional rear wheel drive front engine V8, a bit too heavy, an American icon, adequate power but not crazy fast, good brakes, good handling up to a point, very visceral and sensory with lot's of eye candy appeal during cruises and bar hopping...Dodge Challenger RT perhaps? Not the SRT8 model, just the basic Hemi model. Ford Mustang GT and Camaro SS are honorable mentions.

The discontinued '05 T-Bird is just a bit too feminine to a be a 4 wheel version of a HD.

[RPG]

Another recent thread got me to thinking about the difference between BMWs and Harleys. We all know what kind of vehicles BMW make, cars and bikes both have cutting edge electronics, modern styling, crisp handling, etc. My thoughts were: what would a car made by Harley be like today? I picture it being styled like a '57 Chevy with lots of chrome and an enormous pushrod motor. What do you think?

 

Yeah, an enormous pushrod motor, like a Hemi V8 or a big block 427 Chevy. Anything wrong with that?

 

RPG

[Whip]

Modern Harleys are well made. The build quality is high. They go for a classic design feel and are wed to an inefficient engine, but within those constraints, the bikes fit their intended use well.

 

In car terms, it's more like a modern build of an older-style car. The brand image fits nicely with the Ford pickup but the bikes are more like one of the new Ford Thunderbirds.

 

 

+1

[Penforhire]

Ha ha, I picture a car made by HD as having a restrictor plate on the intake that is removed with the Screaming Eagle stage 1 kit while the Stage 2 kit smooths the surface-of-the-moon pitting on intake surfaces. The stage 3 kit removes a 100 lb weight welded to the bottom of the trunk and the stage 4 kit adjusts the valve openings correctly...

[Whip]

Ha ha, I picture a car made by HD as having a restrictor plate on the intake that is removed with the Screaming Eagle stage 1 kit while the Stage 2 kit smooths the surface-of-the-moon pitting on intake surfaces. The stage 3 kit removes a 100 lb weight welded to the bottom of the trunk and the stage 4 kit adjusts the valve openings correctly...

 

I can see that.

 

[elkroeger]

...Which one can be tuned with a feeler gauge, timing light and screwdriver?...

 

Feeler gauge? What's that? Use a matchbook cover.

[Ponch]

Ok if HD made a modern car, I'm thinking retro looks, classic engine sound, traditional rear wheel drive front engine V8, a bit too heavy, an American icon, adequate power but not crazy fast, good brakes, good handling up to a point, very visceral and sensory with lot's of eye candy appeal during cruises and bar hopping...Dodge Challenger RT perhaps? Not the SRT8 model, just the basic Hemi model. Ford Mustang GT and Camaro SS are honorable mentions.

The discontinued '05 T-Bird is just a bit too feminine to a be a 4 wheel version of a HD.

 

I've driven the new 5.0 mustang and it had as much in common with a HD as a S1000RR does.

[Matts_12GS]

Must be lousy weather out there keeping all the haters inside.

 

Go ride your motorcycles and quit trying to stir the pudding about other brands.

[Marty Hill]

You have a point Matt, but it's better than listening to the BMW bashers who just will not leave and feel that it's necessary to remind the rest of us that it's a long distance riding community.

[dhanson]

BMWs suck! Now, you feel better?

 

I think the whole deal with new buyers of BMW, they should be warned of what they are getting into. Overpriced, and lots of major problems with the bikes in some cases. Resale is not what people will lead you to believe.

 

Beware of old timers hawking the brand but have never owned anything up to date. Most of the old timers are on 2005 or older bikes. Not a good representation of the brand. I challenge them to go buy a new one, and risk the model being dropped in 2-3 years, plus all sorts of problems that the dealer will deny that anyone else has.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do like technology, but it is very expensive to be a beta tester and then much more so if your model is dropped. Pretty hard to sell at that point.

 

I bought a used Tiger 1050 for $8300 with 2000 miles, and I could go anywhere the others went, sold it for $7600 with 23,000 miles after 2 years. I lost $4000 on a very nice 07 K1200GT with only 22,000 miles which I also bought used in 08. Very lucky to sell when I did as the K1300GT had just been released and BMW dropped the price on the new K1200GTs on the floor to what I was hoping to sell mine for used. I was very lucky, one more month and I would have lost much more money. So, buy your BMW, but beware!!!

[BalancePoint]

When I think of Harley riders and the sort of cars they might favor (and I should add this is all in jest, since I have a number of Harley-owning friends with otherwise impeccable taste) what comes to mind is the American muscle cars not of the '60s, but of the '70s. When performance largely gave way to posture.

 

 

 

Something to truly desire...

The copper luxury group Thunderbird

[Matts_12GS]

I dunno Dave, maybe just figuring out what you want and not trying to chase the technology curve is a simpler way to live? After reading all your lust and love stories about the new multistrada, Im even happier I haven't found anything else in the "modern" motorcycle lineup that I want to replace my 05 GS with.

[tallman]

So, you've had your say, made your point, beaten that horse, pounded the drum ad infinitum.

So, why hang out here?

Nothing personal, I enjoy some of your POV's.

But I don't get it.

Why waste your time?

 

I guess I'm an old timer, riding an '03.

I've also been around hundreds of new sales some years, thousands and thousands over time.

Some of those bikes had issues. Many didn't have any problems.

 

Much like most vehicles.

We've got a million miles on recent GM products and never had a problem.

Go figure.

 

Any potential buyer savvy enough to find this site and read your opinion is surely savvy enough to find plenty of good and bad information about any marque.

 

Around here you can't give away used Triumph motos.

I like them.

Not knocking them.

Just the way it is.

 

You "lost" money reselling a used motorcycle?

That's a shock.

BMW has discounted models at certain times for many years.

They have dropped prices when new models come out wrt previous models.

 

Guess what?

So do other manufacturers.

 

Didn't we just have a thread that you participated in about a certain bike that compared pricing around the country and there was a substantial price drop because the model hadn't sold?

Didn't we see prices on many new models that are leftover '08/'09 etc UJM's fall below prices paid by buyers who got them years ago thereby sinking the resale value (like you cite wrt your GT)?

I was in the local Triumph dealership when a new model year was rolling out.

They were incensed because the pricing change rendered their leftover bikes unsellable. They would have to take a large, real world, loss on each leftover bike when/if sold with no factory support/hold back.

BMW is not the only game in town.

They may not work for you.

So enjoy your ride, tell us about your fun trips and experiences on what you ride now.

After a certain point it seems more like sour grapes than public service.

Best wishes.

[dhanson]

I don't hang around very much, I didn't start the thread on the S10 either, but if someone is interested in other bikes, I am here. I like em all, even BMWs but doubt I will ever own another one, I don't like their attitude, company or dealers.

 

I can not compete with you guys that work at the dealerships, I bet you don't have to pay the $1200+ majors either on bikes that no one can work on but an ace mechanic with lots of expensive tools!

 

On the road, I love to ride with them all, and I also like the R bikes when the guys work on them and repair, but will never own one. I also loved the look of the F800GS, but to many problems, I had to just keep looking the other way every time I went in the dealership.

 

You guys have the hard part, you are in the majority here with your beloved BMW can do no wrong club, putting up with me as the minority is your unwanted problem. Cheers.

[roadscholar]

Tim, it's part of a well orchestrated two-man assault to run BMW AG into the ground and render them useless and incompetent.

 

On the contrary, I recently rode my old (and underpowered) '06 K1200GT down I-95 the 90 miles to Daytona and while I didn't (quite) average 107.9 mph I'd forgotten what an amazing piece of machinery it is when in it's element (for any more detail than that, use your imagination). Yes, it's resale is considerably less than I paid for it, and worth every penny of it.

[dhanson]

No orchestra here Bill, just personal experience. I follow no one, and do not expect you to follow me, but I have LIVED!

 

A little contrast to all the BMW can do no wrong stuff on the forum can't hurt.

 

But it is sometimes hard to bite my tongue and not comment when I read some of the BS, otherwise it would be just bashing a brand. Usually a thread evens out eventually with the older heads prevailing.

[roadscholar]

I'm out the door, going dirtbike riding.

[Ponch]

When I think of Harley riders and the sort of cars they might favor (and I should add this is all in jest, since I have a number of Harley-owning friends with otherwise impeccable taste) what comes to mind is the American muscle cars not of the '60s, but of the '70s. When performance largely gave way to posture.

 

 

 

 

Something to truly desire...

The copper luxury group Thunderbird

 

I prefer something like this:

 

 

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

"bikes that no one can work on but an ace mechanic with lots of expensive tools!"

 

Can a non-ace mechanic with non-expensive tools work on a Multistrada? You won't believe it, but even so I ride only BMW bikes for almost 40 years and work at dealers for almost 30, I'm not brainwashed and do see the problems, may be more than those on the outside. If I wouldn't be so involved with BMW, nowadays bikes like the Honda NT700, Vstrom 650, or even a Suzuki Burgman could be on my list.

What gets old is that some people who had admittedly serious problems, badly handled by BMW, use any possible opportunity to remind everybody the problems they had, that seems like a vengeance campaign against BMW.

 

[tallman]

Bill,

Ride it on over and check out Dr. Curve's exhibition.

So many more works than just the maps (which are terrific).

We had fun at the opening last night.

[Matts_12GS]

I don't hang around very much, I didn't start the thread on the S10 either, but if someone is interested in other bikes, I am here. I like em all, even BMWs but doubt I will ever own another one, I don't like their attitude, company or dealers.

 

I can not compete with you guys that work at the dealerships, I bet you don't have to pay the $1200+ majors either on bikes that no one can work on but an ace mechanic with lots of expensive tools!

 

On the road, I love to ride with them all, and I also like the R bikes when the guys work on them and repair, but will never own one. I also loved the look of the F800GS, but to many problems, I had to just keep looking the other way every time I went in the dealership.

 

You guys have the hard part, you are in the majority here with your beloved BMW can do no wrong club, putting up with me as the minority is your unwanted problem. Cheers.

 

Decaf man... Ride the duc to Starbux, park next to Marty and look like you just finished Dakar while you sip your latte'...

 

I'm no dealership guy, I don't buy new vehicles any more, period. I do my own tune ups, tires and outside the cases work because I enjoy it, and I because my budget most goes to the 8 year boy down the hall.

[dhanson]

"bikes that no one can work on but an ace mechanic with lots of expensive tools!"

 

Can a non-ace mechanic with non-expensive tools work on a Multistrada? use any possible opportunity to remind everybody the problems they had, that seems like a vengeance campaign against BMW.

 

Went to play golf. Answer is NO, and that is why it must go before the 15,000 mile major (unless I learn more than I know now).

 

On the second part, just want everyone to understand where I stand on BMW, and it is not as rosy as it seems from the outside.

[dhanson]

I don't hang around very much, I didn't start the thread on the S10 either, but if someone is interested in other bikes, I am here. I like em all, even BMWs but doubt I will ever own another one, I don't like their attitude, company or dealers.

 

I can not compete with you guys that work at the dealerships, I bet you don't have to pay the $1200+ majors either on bikes that no one can work on but an ace mechanic with lots of expensive tools!

 

On the road, I love to ride with them all, and I also like the R bikes when the guys work on them and repair, but will never own one. I also loved the look of the F800GS, but to many problems, I had to just keep looking the other way every time I went in the dealership.

 

You guys have the hard part, you are in the majority here with your beloved BMW can do no wrong club, putting up with me as the minority is your unwanted problem. Cheers.

 

Decaf man... Ride the duc to Starbux, park next to Marty and look like you just finished Dakar while you sip your latte'...

 

I'm no dealership guy, I don't buy new vehicles any more, period. I do my own tune ups, tires and outside the cases work because I enjoy it, and I because my budget most goes to the 8 year boy down the hall.

 

I should have kept the Tiger, but I was too weak, LOL. Yeah, I know the guys like working on the R bikes (most of them anyway), and I wanted the R12GS in 07, but went the K12GT route, wifey hated the GS looks, LOL. It is fine now for her, but I am over it, thus the S10 (which she also does not like).

[Bullett]

 

. . . I wanted the R12GS in 07, but went the K12GT route, wifey hated the GS looks, LOL. It is fine now for her, but I am over it, thus the S10 (which she also does not like).

 

I can't believe you make Jean ride in the back of your old Chevy S-10 pick-up truck!

 

 

Sorry, Dave, I couldn't help myself.

[dhanson]

When we met, couple of years ago, I was driving an S10, but I sold it before we dated. Let the record show that she liked the FXDX best!