Tom R. Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If my memory serves, albeit with incremental improvements, the 1200 GS Adventure has been more or less the same since 2007. So, what is this group's best guess for when BMW will give the GSA a total remake? Link to comment
Firefight911 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 You'll probably see a change with the new liquid cooled motor (spy photos already out). 2012 or 2013. All guess work really as the platform is pretty good and is paid for by now so it's all profit....excepting the warranty work. Link to comment
roadscholar Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 History being a guide, the GSA will follow the GS, by about six months to a year. With the special editions on their way I'd guess 2011 will be the GS's last year as we know it. A year ago I thought even '10 might be. If you count '04 (way early '05's) the 12GS has been around for eight years, a long time when everyone else is nippin' at your heels and wants some of the pie. It's tough for a manufacturer to replace it's best selling model but with each iteration the GS has reinvented itself time and again. I wouldn't bet against this one being any different. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If I was richer, I'd bet that the new water-cooled GS would be about 20 lbs heavier than the current one. I'm not sure that I would want one if you ride off road, because water jackets on the cylinder heads would seem to be more vulnerable to getting punctured in a spill. The boxer layout was designed for air cooling. Seems kind of silly for water cooling. You'd want the crash bars for sure. Link to comment
Little_Brit Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 If I was a betting man I wouldn't bet on the next GS being water cooled at all! Bike magazine in the UK ran a special feature last year (2010) celibrating the 30th anniversary of the GS line. In it they interviewed Dr Christian Landerl (head of BMW power train development until Nov 2008 and now responsible for development of all BMW bikes). He is quoted as saying of the new HP2 derived DOHC engine that "more stringent future exhaust emissions are not a major obstacle to our air/oil cooled boxer engine. The fact that it heats up to operating temperature fairly quickly is actually fairly beneficial in terms of the response of the catalytic converter" Looking at previous model runs I'd have thought that the DOHC engine would run for at least four years before any major changes are to be expected. Of course they may change the chassis without changing the engine... Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well, that makes sense to me. A water-cooled boxer does not really make sense. I wonder if they are having second thoughts from their testing program. Link to comment
grizzlyoomb Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't know about that....Subaru and Porsche use water cooled boxers. Low CG. Link to comment
Little_Brit Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'm sure that BMW (along with all the other manufacturers) are running all sorts of "mules" with engines and running gear that are deemed promising but that may never see a production line. A water cooled boxer may well exist, I'm sure it could provide a significant power hike, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily the next generation :-) It's fun trying to second guess though isn't it... Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 It makes sense in an automotive chasis. But if you were designing a water cooled GS from scratch today, I think that it would have an engine configuration more like the Rotax powered F models. Despite the advantages of the boxer engine not needing the extra weight of counter-balancers, I don't think that you would design an off-road capable motorcycle with the jugs sticking out like that. But they do provide more efficient cooling in an air cooled design. Link to comment
Little_Brit Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Despite the advantages of the boxer engine not needing the extra weight of counter-balancers, Oops, One of the major changes between the 1150 and 1200 engine was the inclusion of a counter-rotating balance shaft running concentrically with the cam-shafts lay-shaft directly under the crankshaft. You're right about a boxer being a strange choice of engine configuration for an off-road bike though Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 That's interesting, I didn't know that (oilhead owner that I am). Is the purpose to smooth out the engine or to counter the engine torque effect on chasis stability when the engine is revved? Link to comment
kmac Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 YEAH what idiots would EVER build a water cooled boxer motor.... Those honda Gold wings are just a stupid FAD.....like the internet. Link to comment
Indy Dave Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Those honda Gold wings are just a stupid FAD.....like the internet. You forgot the 3 year, unlimited millage warranty the wing comes with Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Those honda Gold wings are just a stupid FAD.....like the internet.I had a GL1000. Sold it last year. Of course, it was never air cooled. And when it was introduced, it was the heaviest production motorcycle in the world at the time. Which probably explains why Honda never made an Adventure version of it. I was never tempted to take it off road. Link to comment
SuperG Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 We need to realize the the Beemer boxer engine was an airplane engine before it became a motorcycle engine. Got plenty air during flights, they jammed it in a bike and still worked great. Why mess with it? Leave the aircooled boxer the way it is for the cruisers/ST and put something else in the GS on/off road bikes. A nice slim watercooled inline three banger would be great. Hell ugly or not, I would be allover it like flies on s^&t. PS: a 4 cylinder boxer in an RT would be lovely as well. I would get the checkbook out for that too. Better yet , here is an aircooled 6 Link to comment
Matts_12GS Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If my memory serves, albeit with incremental improvements, the 1200 GS Adventure has been more or less the same since 2007. So, what is this group's best guess for when BMW will give the GSA a total remake? the year after you buy one? Link to comment
Firefight911 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If my memory serves, albeit with incremental improvements, the 1200 GS Adventure has been more or less the same since 2007. So, what is this group's best guess for when BMW will give the GSA a total remake? the year after you buy one? Winner! I would not discount the water cooling future. Regardless of what may be said, emissions are a very large driving force for a move from air to water cooling. It's only a matter of time. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The irony is that I am thinking about moving to an adventure style motorcycle, maybe next year, but the R1200GS is currently not on my short list. One of the reasons is that it is air-cooled. Of course, there are other reasons that have to do with the maintenance history of my oilhead and the cost in C$. Overall, I think that the Super T is a better design for me in this application. Would I change my mind if the GS came out in a water-cooled version? Probably not. Link to comment
SuperG Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Emission ....my left eye! Not in the US market, exhaust emission is not check on motorcycles. I strongly believe keeping the air we breathe clean, but if the laws are not enforced, motorcycle mufflers and emission controls are hacked then what is the point. I am sure most of us read other motorcycle or offroad forums and it is a common practice to replace stock mufflers with open pipes and richen fuel mixtures if possible. Sport bike riders punch out the catalytic converter and alter fuel injection mapping. Please don't tell me a modern aircooled boxer is a polluter. The exhaust tip on my stock muffler is white, not snow white but it is clean. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Emissions is a much bigger deal in the EU. And even Italy buys far more BMWs every year than the US does. So I think they are designing primarily for their European markets. Link to comment
Firefight911 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 In response to those who question anything emissions related, I have one word for you...... CALIFORNIKISTAN I dare not get in to this further as it will very easily come in to a political nature. Lest we forget the new muffler law that was just passed as well...... Checking emissions after ownership is one thing. Before the bike can ever get to your garage it has to be tested and certified at the manufacturing level. I stand by my comment of emissions having a significant impact on air versus liquid cooled engines. Link to comment
Matts_12GS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If my memory serves, albeit with incremental improvements, the 1200 GS Adventure has been more or less the same since 2007. So, what is this group's best guess for when BMW will give the GSA a total remake? the year after you buy one? This is sometimes a good thing. Yeah, first year bikes are always better ;-) I admit it can be a good thing, at least when you buy them on the used market... Link to comment
tallman Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I took Tom's comment to mean that buying the last year of a model sometimes is a good thing. My first year still rocks. YMMV. Link to comment
Matts_12GS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 My first year (albeit mid-first year build) is still strong too. I think the recent model's have had some strong negatives for the first year folks. Link to comment
tallman Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 First I've heard of it. Link to comment
Firefight911 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 First I've heard of it. That's just cruel. Funny, but cruel. Link to comment
Matts_12GS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 First I've heard of it. That's just cruel. Funny, but cruel. Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 My first year still rocks. YMMV. So what is so innovative/new on an 03 GT? As you know but others may not, it's by and large a decades old KRS with a motorized wind screen, heated seat, modified bars, painted side case lids, & a few extra trim pieces. Hardly a new/unproven/fresh model. Link to comment
tallman Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I only said, first year model, which it is, and YMMV. No way around that. Might add that the electric windscreen was a pretty nifty addition. The 1200 KRS came out as a '98 model, hardly "decades old". The flying brick is much older of course. But, the fact is, the '03 GT is a first year model. The problems are few for most. Seals do go but most everything else seems to toddle along pretty well. The "new" 1200/1300 GT II and III never really caught my eye enough to change. We'll see about the 1600, but not for a while... Link to comment
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