Beware "Simple" M/C Maintenance

[Survived-til-now]

So in another thread I posed the question should I ignore a graunchy starter noise, go for a new starter or get the dealer to try and fix it.......

 

Take it out and lube it yourself - simple I was told

 

Sunday morning and I abandon the paper for this simple task -just remove plastic, unbolt and its in my hands...... or so I was advised.

 

Half an hour later the plastic is off the right-hand side - but no sign of starter (I was sure it was there on my 1150RT) - Plastic back on.

 

20 minutes later and the left-side plastic is off and I am looking at the starter - only it is now apparent that to get it out I need to take off at least the footrest plate and even then it looks as though the airbox may need to come out - or possibly I could get to it by taking off the exhaust

 

At this point I put the plastic back on and retreat to a coffeee and the paper...

 

Moral of the story - beware other people's definiton of "simple" and go with the first instinct - which in my case was - leave it to my dealer - he knows what he's doing

[IT_Mike]

One piece of advice - Get a shop manual.

 

From your outline, you weren't even sure where the starter was, let alone what need to be done to replace it. For any project like this I review the shop manual and the process first, then decide whether to leave it to the pro's.

 

Right now, I'm letting them replace the levers because I didn't want to mess with the right hand side.

[Quinn]

In most repairs, especially plumbing, there comes a point at which I wish I'd never started and just hope I can get it back to being no worse than what it was before I touched it. Usually it's too late to go back.

 

----

 

 

[VinnyR11]

"Simple" for some is definitely not "simple" for others. Doing almost anything without a Haynes or other manual (not too expensive), detailed instruction set, or someone knowledgeable to help is a recipe for failure. Also, some of us get no enjoyment from working on our bikes, so "enjoyable" "rewarding" and all the other reasons don't apply to us.

 

I also don't believe the "I know it's done right" line. I used to do all my own maintenance on cars and bikes due to poor finances. A good mechanic in a good shop was easily as good as I was. Ever since I could afford to have all my stuff maintained by a trusted mechanic, I never looked back. Others truly love the maintenance aspect.

 

If done right it will certainly be cheaper to do it yourself, so you have to decide which way is worth it to you.

 

Very un-Zen? Maybe, maybe not. I'm certainly more at peace never having to do that stuff again.

[Whip]

In my case... I call eddd and he always volunteers to help. Or I check Limecreek's schedule and see if he or Bob is busy this weekend. But most importantly I make sure MarkGoodrich IS busy...

 

In your case, I would get Boffin to help me.

 

L

 

 

[dhanson]

I want the service manual to study before hand. Then I find the procedure on a forum that has already been done and sometimes documented with pictures and lots of places to stumble along the way.

 

Then I decide if I can/want to do the procedure, sometimes no choice as it is broken or about to be.

 

I like to set aside time to work on the project so that I might finish in one day, if not I must be careful or I will forget what I was working on a day or two later. Makes for LOTS of clutter around my garage of unfinished projects.

 

I have a short attention span.

[upflying]

I can relate with Survived-til-now.

Except my inability to make repairs pertains to computers. I am drenched in sweat if I have to remove a cover from a desktop computer tower. Beyond turning a system on and off, I have no clue how to fix them. That also applies to glitches while operating the dadgummed machine.

Where does this originate from? I'm from a generation where my dad maintained the family car in the driveway. It was an expected trait and part of manhood to fix a car. Just like how my father taught me to shun the kitchen, laundry room and home economics. I watched, listened and learned intentely as a small boy.

I don't recall my dad teaching me how to fix a computer.

[Rob L]

A job can be simple, but still involve a lot of time.

I spent 6 hours yesterday doing a "simple" brake flush on my RT.

1. Simply remove the 4 side fairing pieces. Not too bad if you know which screws to remove and wires to unplug.

2. Simply remove the gas tank that is full! Just 2 bolts, 2 quick connects, 2 electrical plugs, 2 vacuum hoses.

3. Drain and refill 2 master cylinders, 2 servo resevoirs, remove 3 calipers and shim pistons, bleed 3 calipers, bleed 6 servo points.

4. reassemble bike.

 

Simple.....if you have detailed instructions that you understand, Do each step carefully, AND you have the time and patience to complete the job.

 

As others have said, read the instruction first! Take your time. I understand why dealers charge so much for a brake flush. This is time consuming and requires following the procedure correctly. At $85 an hour shop time, $400 is about right.

 

I also changed the alternator belt. Simple job. IF you don't have wunderlich crash bars

 

6 hours total(unrushed and took a lunch break)......nice relaxing way to spend a cold winter Saturday

[CoarsegoldKid]

In my case... But most importantly I make sure MarkGoodrich IS busy...

 

That's funny.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

"Simple" varies with experience, equipment and expertise.

50+ years of wrenching, a full shop available, 2200 lb tool box and lots of engine/transmission internal time plus 40 odd years of electrical/mechanical trouble shooting for a living leave me unafraid of most projects. I still leave plenty of stuff to the experts as I would rather be riding than wrenching when I can.

 

Right now I can't do either due to arthritic spurs in my left hip joint that have me walking around like Festus.

[Selden]

I want the service manual to study before hand. Then I find the procedure on a forum that has already been done and sometimes documented with pictures and lots of places to stumble along the way.

 

Then I decide if I can/want to do the procedure, sometimes no choice as it is broken or about to be.

 

I like to set aside time to work on the project so that I might finish in one day, if not I must be careful or I will forget what I was working on a day or two later. Makes for LOTS of clutter around my garage of unfinished projects.

 

I have a short attention span.

+1 RTFM. To which I would add: if things are going to be taken apart, use a digital camera to document the process.

 

No matter how much time I estimate, the actual work takes almost twice as long; the exceptions to this rule are gratifying, when they occur.

[markgoodrich]

In my case... But most importantly I make sure MarkGoodrich IS busy...

 

That's funny.

 

You're right, it's funny. Which reminds me, I'm due for a full service. Who wants to help now, or fix my screwups later?

[outpost22]

Perhaps we need to state how long we've been working on this stuff BEFORE we post how "easy" something is to do. I'm probably one of those "advisers" in the Oil Head forum that said the starter service was "easy".

 

It's a well known fact that mechanical challenges are based on the "theory of relativity". The "relativity" part is based on ones experience.

 

Remembering the first time I changed a rear tire in 1973 was daunting, to say the least. Learning how to service an air filter was another first. Graduating to brake shoes (and later pads) was instructional.

 

A little later, when I was working for $2.20/hr in a department store, my Bultaco transmission needed work as it would not go into first gear. There is no way I could afford having someone else work on that thing for me at mechanics rates. So, I dove in and learned how to pull it apart. The first time took about 2 hours to pull it from the frame and strip it down. Since I had no clue what was wrong with it, I got to be a pro at pulling that thing apart and re-assembling it. I could pull it and tear it down in 20 minutes by the time all was said and done.

 

The point being that one's "comfort zone" expands with experience. Working on that starter would be a good "first step" in learning about that bike and gaining a confidence level that can grow from there.

 

 

[kmac]

A manual is important and should be looked at before the process. But time aside the starter is a pretty easy job.

 

Left side tupperware off, seat, disconnect negative batt. terminal, pull off left side foot peg mounting plate (easy it is only bolts if I remember correctly), pull off the 2 wires on the starter which includes the heavy battery cable, take off the 2 mount bolts ( the top bolt was easy but the back bolt was a bit tight to reach but was do able) and slide it out.

 

Remember that when reinstalling the foot rest plate that the shifter lever has 2 notches that key into the back of the plate, make sure they line up before tightening the pivot bolt for the shift lever. Take note of which hole the shifter is mounted in before disassembly as it is adjustable to different height settings.

I found it a pretty easy task and only took me an hour or so total, and I am just a carpenter.

[eddd]

 

I agree that manuals are very important. These are the five volumes of the service manual for my 2002 Chevrolet pickup.

 

 

24 pounds and over 7,900 pages of vital information.

 

I use them all the time when working on my truck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Firefight911]

Ed, that speaks volumes. I guess that's the long and the SHORT of it.

[NonComp]

Simple solutions usually involve credit cards with higher limits. If you want to learn something new and experience the satisfaction that comes from accomplishing something with your own hands, then buy a manual and take advantage of the fantastic technical forums and advice on this site.

 

Note also that simple is not always best or satisfying. You can pay the man $500 and still come away with the same problem, or possibly even a new problem that you didn't have before.

 

Your call. I think got off to a bad start. Kind of like starting a trip to somewhere you've never been before, without looking at a map first.

[SageRider]

Ed, that speaks volumes. I guess that's the long and the SHORT of it.

Multiple groans here!!!

[David13]

If it's a simple repair, it is not as much fun as the complex and intriguing repair.

And there is only one way to obtain experience.

dc

[kmac]

Man, and I alway thought "everything was bigger in Texas"

 

 

Be glad you don't own a ford Eddd...I think it takes that many volumes just to figure which 351 motor you have....

[tallman]

Andy,

Quite a dilemma, at times.

Last year I was involved with many PM's to some members wrt posts from folks about maintenance.

It was obvious the poster didn't have aclue, yet jumped in with gusto.

Sometimes the results were ugly, but not alwyas.

You will need to make the choice that works for you and it seems you have. Good for you.

 

Years ago a thread discussed the issue of self/dealer maintenance and some who opted for the dealer route were castigated for their

choice.

 

Might as well chastise somone for going out to eat at a restaurant, IMO.

 

Suggestions to obtain a manual are good advise, even if all you use it for is to have a better understanding of the work someone else does on your bike.

Best wishes .

[NonComp]

Suggestions to obtain a manual are good advise, even if all you use it for is to have a better understanding of the work someone else does on your bike.

This is really good advice. The more you know about the bike, the better that you can articulate problems to the dealer/mechanic when they arise. And if the dealer listens to you, it might even save you some money! At the very least, you'll earn the respect of the dealer for knowing what you are talking about.

[scout6]

I have started to do my own work due to poor quality control at the dealer. They have gone through several mechanics and I regularly find the work incomplete. Fasteners not tightened, bike not checked out to ensure the reason for the service is corrected,and other issues. With an older bike (2002RT), I figure the chances of being broken down somewhere are going up. Knowing how to fix things seems to be an important skill if I do not get a newer bike. I am currently getting ready to replace the brake lines and do a flush of the system, install a new alternator belt, and do the death rattle fix on the left side cam tensioner. I worry about the rear end and the splines, and will probably tackle a spline inspection and lube this spring.

[OlGeezer]

 

I use them all the time when working on my truck.

 

Now, THAT's funny!

[Rob L]

 

I use them all the time when working on my truck.

 

Now, THAT's funny!

 

It would take a set of encyclopedias to clean the windshield

[kmac]

I'm with Tallman here. I personally think a starter is easy, and that was the gist of my last post, but I have a few friends that refilling their washer fluid is out of their mechanical skill levels.

 

A choice of what a person does themselves and what a person pays a shop to do is for each person to decide. I have no beef with someone "eating out" lol.

 

I still pay for some stuff, but, I do valave adjustments and TB syncs, clutches....all myself. Manual is mandatory for almost anything tho. Even if just as a reference.

[Ponderosa]

I do a lot of my own work not because I’m a good mechanic but because I get tired of paying good money for poor workmanship from the dealers, case in point. when performing a brake flush on the RT I have found the left spark plug cover broken, a spacer from the gas tank missing (it was laying on the cylinder when I removed the gas tank), and one of the fuel lines was re-installed in a pinch resulting in breaking a fitting on the fuel pump. All previous work was performed by a BMW certified mechanic at the dealer.

[ka5ysy]

I can relate with Survived-til-now.

Except my inability to make repairs pertains to computers. I am drenched in sweat if I have to remove a cover from a desktop computer tower. Beyond turning a system on and off, I have no clue how to fix them. That also applies to glitches while operating the dadgummed machine.

Where does this originate from? I'm from a generation where my dad maintained the family car in the driveway. It was an expected trait and part of manhood to fix a car. Just like how my father taught me to shun the kitchen, laundry room and home economics. I watched, listened and learned intentely as a small boy.

I don't recall my dad teaching me how to fix a computer.

 

 

Actually computers, and anything electrical, are simple to work on.

 

All you really have to know is that they all run on smoke. If you let it out, Whatever it came from will not work. You cannot reload the smoke into a circuit. It is kinda like toothpaste that way! If the smoke escapes, you have to go buy a new whatever. Only the manufacturer has the equipment to package the smoke into the device, and there is no aftermarket for those machines.

 

Assuming you have not let the smoke out of your computer, the second important thing to know is that they have very sensitive feelings. If you bang on them, or curse them, they will instantly withdraw into themselves and begin to sulk. Serious cases of computer depression will sometime result in self-destruct, usually indicated by a smoke release.

 

Motorcycles are easy to fix .... (remember the law of relativity!!)

[Natche]

Everything is simple once you know how to do it.

[NonComp]

My 1100 smokes occasionally at startup. Fortunately, it seems to have the ability to replenish its smoke. Got to love German engineering, they think of everything!

[Lineareagle]

 

 

Actually computers, and anything electrical, are simple to work on.

 

All you really have to know is that they all run on smoke. If you let it out, Whatever it came from will not work. You cannot reload the smoke into a circuit. It is kinda like toothpaste that way! If the smoke escapes, you have to go buy a new whatever. Only the manufacturer has the equipment to package the smoke into the device, and there is no aftermarket for those machines.

 

Assuming you have not let the smoke out of your computer, the second important thing to know is that they have very sensitive feelings. If you bang on them, or curse them, they will instantly withdraw into themselves and begin to sulk. Serious cases of computer depression will sometime result in self-destruct, usually indicated by a smoke release.

 

That is a great explanation!