More H-D problems

[NonComp]

All the radiators that I've seen/owned are steel. It's probably the main reason that the V-Rod got so heavy. It's probably the difference between the weight of the Super T and the GS.

 

Not saying that its necessarily a bad thing. Just saying.

[kmac]

All the radiators I own are aluminum and plastic or all aluminum.

There are NO steel radiators I know of. Brass was the metal of choice in by gone days but they are all aluminum now. Or aluminum with plastic tanks on the ends.

 

My Yamaha rad is Alum, my KTM was alum, my Traverse is alum w/plastic tanks, my Jeep is alum.....

 

Not saying the water cooled R motor will be lighter, just that there are trade offs with WC and air/oil cooling. My dirt bike motors did not seem to get heavier once they went to WC back in the 80s. And the trade off was WAY worth it on power and reliability of that power. Everyone complained about the WC dirt bikes back then, but I dont know anyone who would trade back now who cares about performance.

[NonComp]

Hmm, you're probably right about steel. My bad. I've seen rads stripped and they are usually bronze colored. But I have not seen an aluminum one. My ST1300 isn't aluminum. I don't think either my Mazda or my CRV are aluminum either.

[wbrissette]

I'm with kmac on this one. A quick glance around suggest that motorcycles with radiators don't have to be pigs like HD built in the v-rod. That was one of Erik Buell's major complaints about it. When he got Rotax to build the 1125 engine (which is liquid cooled), he showed that you can have a light bike and not have to choose between radiators or weight. When BMW moves to a liquid cooled boxer, I think they'll get it right.

 

Wayne

[realshelby]

I remember reading the engineering data on the difference between the water vs air cooled two stroke engines back in the 80's. Water cooling is lighter. Doesn't take much of a radiator to cool one of these engines.Sure the complexity and maintenance goes up, but so does the horsepower and efficiency! Look at the oil cooled boxer now. Ever pay attention to how much metal there is in the fins on the hidden part of the crankcase? With a water cooled engine there surely would be no need for 4 QUARTS of oil! 2 quarts less would save 4 lbs or so right there.

[BalancePoint]

Unsurprising.

 

If you head north on I-4 just south of Orlando (technically you're heading east) you'll pass a big Harley dealer on your left, with hundreds of bikes outside on any day they're open.

 

A few miles up the road, maybe 25 minutes of travel, you'll pass Seminole Harley on your right. A big building as well. These aren't the only dealership locations in the Orlando area, just the ones that front Interstate 4.

 

Up the road about 40 more minutes, you'll get to Daytona Beach. Rossmeyer has a dealership in town on Beach Street, and just a few more miles up the road a palatial complex of buildings on I-95 in Ormond. Another 40 minutes gets you to St. Augustine. A dealer right off I-95 at State Road 16. Drive another 40 minutes from there, and Adamec has a huge palace of a building in Jacksonville at Baymeadows. They have another location about 15 minutes away on Atlantic Boulevard, and if you go west on I-295, they have a location in Orange Park. And so it goes.

 

Anybody who has dealt with the BMW dealer in Orlando is familiar with the quite modest strip plaza location they operated from until last fall, when after picking up Triumph and Ducati in the wake of Bruce Rossmeyer's death, they moved into a much larger facility. They still operate out of the same rather small, albeit well located, facility in Daytona Beach, even with the addition of two more m/c lines. And when you drive north out of Daytona, you're out of luck with BMW dealers until you get to Charleston!

 

While I wish there were a few more BMW dealers (I can't understand why there isn't one in Jax yet) I do understand the economics of it. What I see at Harley dealers, and what I've heard from the one dealer I know personally, is that these places have become much more museum than sales organization, at least when it comes to the bikes. And the overheads are absolutely crushing.

 

In the wake of the closures, I would not be too surprised if some of the agreements and arguably coercive tactics HD has used with its dealers wind up in court over the next few years.

[crock]

The saddest thing is how Harley forced many of the smaller dealers to become McHarley stores. The owners always had some specialty, like choppers, flat tracking, touring, desert hare racing, or drag racing. It was always interesting to see what they had. Now, its just the same thing everywhere I go. You can't even see the service department anymore. Now Harley has forced a lot of dealers who knew how to operate at a profit, to operate at a loss.

I was really surprised to hear from a girlfriend of my wife's " I really need to get some new clothes. Let's go to the Harley store". That is what it is all about these days.

[NonComp]

Agreed. Similar things happening here. In-town family owned shop lost its Harley franchise two years ago. Replaced by Harley super store 20 miles out of town.

 

BMW doing same here. Small, personable, old-school one-brand BMW motorcycle shop loses franchise because owner refuses to move to a 'nicer' location with larger showroom and debt. Franchise goes to an indivual who has to take on 'investment partners' to buy/renovate a new showroom. This fall, same guy then loses BMW franchise to 'investment partners' (gets squeezed out). So new BMW franchise loses its identifying owner and is now run be a consortium of lawyers/investers who don't seem to be m/c people.

 

Very similar situations.

[kmac]

If it is not the manufacturers forcing the dealers to conform to a cookie cutter style of dealership, then it is the conglomo brand mega stores with all of the japanese brands and even a few other brands mixed in the forces a single one man type of shop out of business and Us, his loyal customers, get screwed out of the service and knowledge we are used to.

 

We end up buying our Yamazukihondaswki parts from a 19 yr old punk who knows nothing, but is willing to stand behind the computer leaning on the counter for 10 bucks per hour, only to act too busy to help you, the when he finally decides to help you, you better NOT need any think is not clear on the computer because will not have any idea of how to find it.

 

Bean counter and lawyer run, micro managed conglomo corps is what everything is nowdays....