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flying_monkey

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flying_monkey

My first BMW, the K75, had a feature where the turn signals were intelligent. If you were riding down the road and forgot them, they would turn off automatically. If you were at a light, they would stay on until you started off again, then turn themselves off.

 

My RT _never_ turns it's signals off on its own. Why would they not have this nice feature on the newer bikes? Or is there a setting somewhere that controls this?

 

 

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ShovelStrokeEd

Is it really that hard to punch the cancel button as you roll into the turn?

 

Both my bikes now have manual turn signals that are no where near as convenient to cancel and I don't have any problems.

 

I tend to signal early and many times the auto system would cancel the signal before I reached my turn in point. PITA.

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Why would they not have this nice feature on the newer bikes?

 

Cost cutting.

 

Or is there a setting somewhere that controls this?

No, but a Kissan signal minder will plug in in place of your stock turn signal relay and give you the self-cancel function.

 

Andy

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"It seems to me that you are wasting eveyone's time posting the same topic again in the same forum. Here's a link to your original"

 

Some of us like affirmation! The F800's have self canceling too. If you want a waste of time, look to a lot of the other post here on a number of subjects.

Picky, picky, picky! Cabin fever setting in?

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flying_monkey

When 6 people answer a topic within 30 minutes, obviously a lot of people have time to waste (including you?)

 

Like someone said in the other thread, maybe it's the early signs of Alzheimer's. Sorry, I forgot totally about having posted that.

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Is it really that hard to punch the cancel button as you roll into the turn?

 

Both my bikes now have manual turn signals that are no where near as convenient to cancel and I don't have any problems.

 

I tend to signal early and many times the auto system would cancel the signal before I reached my turn in point. PITA.

 

Different strokes Ed, I CAN'T STAND that they don't automatically cancel. It is a cheap and cheesy step backwards.

 

As I posted in another thread like this, Even my '02 Harley had auto canel. It turned off after a period of time, like a lane change that you forget to turn off. But they also had some sort of lean angle indicator that knew when you leaned in a turn and shut them off afterward. It was very nice. The controls were much more comfortable to use as well. I hate the cancel button on my R1100RT! It is very awkward the way you have to push UP on the switch. The HD had the push on/push off type of switch, way more comfortable to use.

 

If I could afford it, a signal minder would be on my bike already.

 

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Here we go, IMO, if one is initiating a movement that requires the use of the turn signal, that means you put the signal on to signal your intention, and then after completing the change/turn, one turns off the signal.

 

How can you forget something you are in the process of doing?

 

Not directed personally but IMO riding requires complete attention to one's actions.

Turning on is only part of the process.

Best wishes.

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Here we go, IMO, if one is initiating a movement that requires the use of the turn signal, that means you put the signal on to signal your intention, and then after completing the change/turn, one turns off the signal.

 

How can you forget something you are in the process of doing?

 

Not directed personally but IMO riding requires complete attention to one's actions.

Turning on is only part of the process.

Best wishes.

 

tim, i greatly appreciate this way of thinking.

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Here we go, IMO, if one is initiating a movement that requires the use of the turn signal, that means you put the signal on to signal your intention, and then after completing the change/turn, one turns off the signal.

Best wishes.

 

So I take it from this post that you have never been guilty of leaving your indicator on after a manouver? ;-}

 

Andy

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flying_monkey

Boy do I ever agree with you on that. I probably _can_ afford a signal minder, and will look for one Saturday at the two local dealers listed on the signal minder web site. Probably not at the BMW dealer first, though. Everything with BMW in the name they triple the price. :-)

 

 

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Here we go, IMO, if one is initiating a movement that requires the use of the turn signal, that means you put the signal on to signal your intention, and then after completing the change/turn, one turns off the signal.

Best wishes.

 

So I take it from this post that you have never been guilty of leaving your indicator on after a manouver? ;-}

 

Andy

 

Not that I recall.

It is why I like BMW (old school, OK not that old :/) turn signals.

When I initiate either directional signal my R thumb snugs up to the cancel button.

Learned behaviour.

I actually practise this.

:dopeslap:

 

I've driven cars that didn't have self-cancel feature, or it was broken, and I always would finish the change/turn by cancelling the blinker.

Old habit and sometimes I only lift the lever far enough to initiate a turn signal, not auto engage it.

On a BMW motorcycle with the older set up ( L turn , R turn, cancel w/right thumb) I move right thumb when pushing L signal and after pushing R signal I raise my thumb to prepare to cancel.

That way I have ergo feedback that my thumb needs to move.

Simple, at least for me.

Best wishes.

 

 

Oh, and I forgot, :dopeslap: IMO, an advantage to doing it this way is that if you change your mind you're already in the position to cancel the turn indicator rather than leaving it on and sending, literally, the wrong signal to drivers around us.

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Ahem. ahem, as a 50-yr biker who has left his Airhead turn signals on lots of times*, the essential problem is bikeness and counter-steering.

 

You'd think now-a-days with GPS, it would not be hard to FINALLY devise intelligent bike turn signals.

 

As far as I can make sense of the stockers, they get a voltage from the speedo which is proportional to the speed and therefore cancels faster in proportion. Look at the wiring diagram.

 

I don't like the Kissan company but I do like their SignalMinder. Seems to address a lot of my problems with the totally moronic stock arrangement. BMW is forever boasting about ergonomics but I can see no evidence they've ever had a professional human-factors person work on their designs.

 

*Can't say as I have a smart human-factors analysis (even though that is what I do for a living). But canceling the turn signals (which might be hard to see in sunlight) is pretty peripheral to the keep-all-your-fingers-and-toes operation of a bike and not what I'm thinking about in the middle of a turn.

 

Ben

getting to be chilly in Toronto

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Ok, so with all this "body learning" we get with the BMW turn signal set-up. Fess up, how many of us Beamer riders have an instinctive upward "twitch" on their right thumb when approaching an intersection or seeing a car waiting to turn left ;)!!

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We're talking lane changes and turns, not twisties and switchbacks with off camber decreasing radius chicanery.

If you have to "think" about it, that is, form a separate thought for each part of the sequence, perhaps that is something to study.

AFA ergos, I find the simple thumb movement easy and intuitive, YMMV.

You certainly aren't alone in leaving a turn signal on, some do it for miles...

Maybe I'm wired differently but to me, as I said above, it is a total process, not merely an initaition one.

Best wishes.

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I've never found the BMW buttons (all three of them) intuitive, and neither has my wife, who is a new rider and has taken over my 1100r. For example, she hits the horn button occasionally rather than the cancel button (she learned to ride on a Honda).

 

However, the SignalMinder simplifies all this by allowing you to hit the same side signal button again to cancel. Now I never touch the cancel button, which I find extremely awkward to use because you have to lift your thumb.

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Here we go, IMO, if one is initiating a movement that requires the use of the turn signal, that means you put the signal on to signal your intention, and then after completing the change/turn, one turns off the signal.

 

How can you forget something you are in the process of doing?

 

Not directed personally but IMO riding requires complete attention to one's actions.

Turning on is only part of the process.

Best wishes.

 

Afternoon Tallman,

I normally like your input on most threads, but on this one I absolutely DISagree with you.

 

To me, and obviously you differ, I think every detail that I have to think about that takes away my focus from the road is a negative. If I have to turn on my signal, focus on the lane being clear, change lane while watching for some other idiot cager making a last second dive into my lane, watch my mirrors....and also turn off my signal in there somewhere is one more chance for me to miss some knucklehead soccer mom minivan putting on makeup while talking on the phone and eating a bagel and drinking starbucks....

 

Couple that ADDED need to turn off the signals with the awkward signal set up on the BMW cancel and it is just distracting to me. I have owned dozens of street bikes and all of them had different style signals. But ever one of them was better and simpler than my RT. If you have dual turn signals, one on each thumb, then have those also be the cancel. Or keep it simple like the Dual Sport style and put it all on 1 spot with a push to cancel back to center.

 

Like NonComps wife I hit my horn regularly when I cancel my left turn signal.

 

Maybe someday when I grow up I will be as good as you Tallman. But in my 400-500,000 miles of riding I still like auto-cancel or at least a simpler system than BMW uses.

JMHO

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Just like I periodically check my mirrors, I also hit the cancel button and check the choke lever while riding. Just to be on the safe side. Don't know how I'm going to handle it if I get an upgrade to a single control for turn signals.

 

----

 

 

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Don't worry, the next one will have all kinds of new buttons to fiddle with. Like traction control and engine power output settings and suspension settings and ...

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For me personally, I cannot count the number of times I have left my turn signal on after completing a turn due to a distraction more important than the thought process of turning it off.If it were a make or break, I suppose I would be better off not using it,and sticking with hand signals.This applies on both my airhead and RT.Having said that, I bought the signal minder and think it was worth every penny and then some. I also think the running light option cannot hurt at all either

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I agree it's not intuitive.

With 4 different make machines in the garage the R/RT is the only one with a different signal system, one I have to concentrate on and think about to use. It's a distraction. What I don't like about it (besides that it isn't industry standard) is that I have to actually move my hand to reach the buttons to make them work. Maybe I have smaller than average hands or just shorter thumbs, I don't think so. And an upward motion of the thumb, not a push, but an awkward lifting no less.

 

I guess it would be different if the only machine I'd ever sat on and ridden in my life was a BMW, so that I didn't know any better existed...

 

Maybe one day BMW will go the way of the rest of the world.

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Being a newbie, I am glad the original poster started this thread as I didn't know the signal minder was available. Ordering one tomorrow as I need any help I can get with this new to me bike and the less distractions, or the less I have to "think" about the turn signals the better!

 

Thanks

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Here we go, IMO, if one is initiating a movement that requires the use of the turn signal, that means you put the signal on to signal your intention, and then after completing the change/turn, one turns off the signal.

 

How can you forget something you are in the process of doing?

 

Not directed personally but IMO riding requires complete attention to one's actions.

Turning on is only part of the process.

Best wishes.

 

Afternoon Tallman,

I normally like your input on most threads, but on this one I absolutely DISagree with you.

 

To me, and obviously you differ, I think every detail that I have to think about that takes away my focus from the road is a negative......

 

Tim, doesn't your bike (old school K1200GT) have factory signal cancellation?

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Yes, and on my RSL I added a SignalMinder.

 

But, that is for failsafe mode, IMO.

Frankly I'm perplexed by so many people riding a motorcycle who don't cancel their turn indicator.

It can be dangerous and send the wrong message to other vehicles, IMO.

 

Sort of like another tool that can be dangerous, a gun.

Is it loaded?

Safety?

I'm amazed when tragedies happen due to operator error with a gun.

Even when a friend hands me a gun, with magazine in their hand, and clears the chamber, I ALWAYS, douoble and triple check the weapon first.

It's my life, and in the case of a motorcycle, my passenger's life too.

I have seen too many bonehead moves caused by turn signals being left on, so I endeavor to avoid that by practicing the entire process, mentally and physically.

As far as design, BMW vs. "the rest of the world", personally it dislike having to remove my hand to use the "rest of" design.

YMMV.

My thumbs are relatively opposable and I have no problem moving it in 2 directions ala BMW design.

 

When I originally said I don't recall leaving an indicator on, that included the self cancel feature on the bikes.

I would add it , as I did if the bike didn't have it.

But, I don't look at that feature as being better than my input into the process.

 

Interesting discussion.

On this board it is not unusual to read posts about ABS systems and how "I don't want the control taken away from me," or "I can do it better", etc.

I like ABS.

:P

It works well and in many situations is probably better than I am.

It is a complex system.

 

Turn signals?

Not so complex.

I'm at least as good as the designers of the bike when it comes to that task.

:rofl:

Best wishes.

 

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ShovelStrokeEd

I'm kinda with Tim although neither of my bikes have self canceling turn signals. Both use the center off switch but, on the Sprint it is in the conventional position, on the Tuono, it is at the bottom of the left bar with the horn button above it.

 

I don't have any issues switching from bike to bike as I have trained myself to, as soon as I initiate the signal, I hover my thumb over the cancel switch. As soon as I begin my turn, I hit the cancel button. This requires no thought on my part and no distraction as a result, it is just what I do. I haven't found any difference in control either as you really don't need thumbs to steer the bike or apply clutch/throttle/brake for that matter.

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