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Ethanol free gas stations


Bronx Cheer

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Very interesting.

Unfortunately there is no gas stations listed in the immediate Austin TX area.

The Nearest to me is about 40 miles and it is a Yacht Club & Marina.

 

Why Ethanol is bad you may ask? It separates from fuel in a fairly short tiem period.

 

I don't believe this is coincident but in 2010:

My Chevy suburban 's fuel pump died ( $350 just for the module pump)

My chain saw - both the feed and return fuel line kind off melted away and leaking.

My KTM dirt bike did not fire up after about 2 months of sitting ( not battery related), but draining old gas and refilling with fresh fuel solved the starting issue right away. Never had that problem before.

 

My golf cart runs like poop ( yes the gas is getting old in it) it take s long time to burn up 6 gallons of gas with a golf cart. :)

 

Coincident? May be not.

According to a recent new paper article, our government wants to bump up the ethanol content to 15% in gas station pump gas.

I hope they don't.

 

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The only thing we can get "ethanol free" is Super Unleaded 92 octane at my commercial fuel stop. It goes for around $3.70/Gal. I run it in all my power equipment and bikes now.

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According to a recent new paper article, our government wants to bump up the ethanol content to 15% in gas station pump gas.

I hope they don't.

 

I think the decision has already been made - E15 is coming to stations near you. I would like to see the ethanol blended in at the stations themselves, much like they do now for those selecting mid-octane fuel. That way consumers will have options at the pump for both octane rating and ethanol content. This would allow FlexFuel vehicle owners to buy E85 if desired, yet still give folks like us the option to purchase E0 (EZero). Too complicated and confusing?

 

I have found that Pure-gas.org data is accurate most of the time.

 

Jay

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The problem is that Ethanol attcks older systems, mainly through corrosion or dissolving of rubber parts. And ethanol is hygroscopic. It will absorb water. This is why vehicles made in the 80's are more susceptible to problems with ethanol blends. This is the most logical reason for your fuel pump dying and the fuel line melting away.

 

This link is very informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines#Risks

 

Be aware that your grandchildren will be driving ethanol based motorcycles and most likely electric to boot. Enjoy it while you can, we are a dying breed og 100+ hp runners. Live long enough and you can say "Why, Son, in my day we had motorcycles that had over a hundred and fifty horsepower. That's right! I ain't lying!" :)

 

As a side note ethanol was the prime contender for an anti-knock additive in the early 20's but because of a "deal" between powerful people we ended up with lead as an anti-knock additive with all the hell that it brought with it. Think, if technical evolution of motors had started with ethanol, the world would look differently today...

 

 

 

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I live in a boating area and ethanol has been a real big problem here. All the marinas with fuel docks have changed to NON ethanol. There is one gas station in the area that has NON E gas and they are doing a land office business. Folks fill their outboard motor tanks there. I use it occasionally in my LT, but I primairly use it for my small engines, lawn tractor, trimmers, chain saws, etc. I have had problems with all of these due to ethanol and as stated above, the govt. wants to increase to 15%. :mad:

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I'm surprised at the problems some of you folks have attributed to ethanol forumulated gasolines.

 

In Western Canada we have a chain of gas stations (Husky and Mowhawk brands) that have had "up to 10-percent" ethanol since the '80s. There's been one near our place, so I've used their ethanol gasolines regularly for more than twenty years in all my cars, motorcycles and lawnmowers, and apart from one fuel pump failure in my 18-year old Subaru Legacy, have never had any other problems.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon that some folks seem to have mechanical issues related to ethanol gasolines, when, from my experience, it hasn't been a problem for me.

 

T

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I have not found it to be a mechanical issue, but it certainly is an efficiency issue.

Up until last year, we had a station that still had non ethanol fuel available. By my calculations, the ethanol effectively does nothing toward moving the vehicle down the road. At least that is true with my motorcycles. It has somewhat less of an effect on my Toyotas.

 

The only mechanical issue I have had.....(A safety issue, actually).....Is that ethanol fuel boils in the fuel tank of my chain saw! I have learned not to open the tank if it quits while running, when I know it has fuel. I just let it cool down first, to avoid the rapid exit of the fuel in the tank, all over the hot motor in my hands! Never had this happen with real gasoline.....And I have had the same chain saw for over 20 years.

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In california the stations dont even have to post how much E they have in their fuel and it can be up to 15% for some time now.

The only issue it seems to cause is if a vehichle sits for any period of time, the alchohol in the fuel evaporates and leaves a horrible varnish in the fuel system like the carbs and injectors and just running new fuel through it will NOT dissolve the varnish like gas did in the old days. You HAVE to pull the carbs apart and completely clean them out. Fuel stailizer helps, but it is not the end all fix. It is a band-aid on a broken arm.

 

The only real solution is ride or drive your stuff weekly, or drain the fuel when it is gonna sit for any period of time. Drain it from the tank, and float bowl if it is carbureted or drain it from the tank and run it dry if it is FI.

 

Welcome to our California ECO friendly but human hating environment.

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I'm surprised at the problems some of you folks have attributed to ethanol forumulated gasolines.

 

In Western Canada we have a chain of gas stations (Husky and Mowhawk brands) that have had "up to 10-percent" ethanol since the '80s. There's been one near our place, so I've used their ethanol gasolines regularly for more than twenty years in all my cars, motorcycles and lawnmowers, and apart from one fuel pump failure in my 18-year old Subaru Legacy, have never had any other problems.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon that some folks seem to have mechanical issues related to ethanol gasolines, when, from my experience, it hasn't been a problem for me.

 

T

 

 

Check out Ducati fuel tank issues.

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I'm surprised at the problems some of you folks have attributed to ethanol forumulated gasolines.

 

In Western Canada we have a chain of gas stations (Husky and Mowhawk brands) that have had "up to 10-percent" ethanol since the '80s. There's been one near our place, so I've used their ethanol gasolines regularly for more than twenty years in all my cars, motorcycles and lawnmowers, and apart from one fuel pump failure in my 18-year old Subaru Legacy, have never had any other problems.

 

It's an interesting phenomenon that some folks seem to have mechanical issues related to ethanol gasolines, when, from my experience, it hasn't been a problem for me.

 

T

 

 

Check out Ducati fuel tank issues.

 

I've got a carbuereted Ducati and have run it on ethanol forumlated fuel (mostly) since I bought it new in 1995, still got it and it runs just fine now and has never had a problem.

 

Sorry to be the odd man out, here.

 

T

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Per the link

The tanks that are affected by this problem are reportedly made of PA6 polyamide plastic

 

And according to the link it's not definitive.....

The consensus on the web is that the problem is related to the addition of ethanol in the gasoline, but there are many reports of motorcycles that have used ethanol tainted gas for years and have not had problems with deformation.

 

Still it sounds like PA6 should not have been used for gas tanks.

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Welcome to our California ECO friendly but human hating environment.

 

I cannot agree that there is anything particularly Californian about ethanol, nor that it is eco friendly in any way. In fact, I'm not sure that was ever the impetus to the thing.

dc

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Welcome to our California ECO friendly but human hating environment.

 

I cannot agree that there is anything particularly Californian about ethanol, nor that it is eco friendly in any way. In fact, I'm not sure that was ever the impetus to the thing.

dc

 

Well, Iowa is ethanol land. Trying to speak ill of it would be like doing ROTC recruitment on Haight Ashbury in the 60's. Worse. The farmers love their subsidies and sure as hell don't like competition. Recently there have been alternatives to using corn that are superior, but studies have to be made to ensure it's efficacy. Sometimes I can't believe this is the heartland of america.

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It doesn't matter if something is actually ECo friendly here in Ca.

 

All that matters is that someone convinces some special interest group that it is GREEN...then we in Ca. end up stuck with it, good or bad.

 

Alcohol burns cleaner than gasoline,or so they say. It is a renewable resource, so it IS green to some extent. Since it is derived from a plant product its growth burns carbon dioxide thus reducing green house gases, or so they say....

 

My point being David13 is that California is crazily into eco/green BS. Someone somewhere somehow convinced someone somewhere somehow that E10-E85 is "better" for the environment, so now here we are. We have had it for years along with heavily oxygenated gas. It all sucks for bikes, boats, lawn equipment.....

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BTW I grew up near you. i am from Gardena, wife was from Carson and in laws live in Lomita ish area.

 

Got my first bike from T&O Yamaha in Lomita.

 

Notice in the link, There is NO Ca. ethanol free gas stations available.

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When I cross the border from Canada and fill my tank, my mileage goes up. It is really evident. I can get anywhere from 60 to 100 miles further on a tankful.

 

Could it be the ethanol in the gas that causes the mileage to go down?

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When I cross the border from Canada and fill my tank, my mileage goes up. It is really evident. I can get anywhere from 60 to 100 miles further on a tankful.

 

Could it be the ethanol in the gas that causes the mileage to go down?

 

Oh yeah. I would get 35-37 with my Nomad on corn crap and 40-43 on non-ethanol gas. The RT has been getting 42-43 on corn crap...

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Ethanol contains less heat energy per volume than conventional gas, so a light e blend would be nominally less efficient than pure gasoline. Various factors influence a fuel's BTU rating but here are some baselines for comparison:

gasoline 114,000 BTU's per gal

E10 112,000 BTU's per gal

E85 81,800 BTU's per gal

#2 Diesel 129,500 BTU's per gal (explains Diesel engine's superior fuel economy)

 

 

Some interesting info on the topic: http://www.epa.gov/oms/rfgecon.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

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I think that if anyone thinks there is anything eco friendly about ethanol, they have been seriously fooled, or they know nothing about ecology.

I think Ponch has it right. It's a farm subsidy. Do any of us remember seeing those before?

And indeed they are most sacred cows. I think what Ponch means is that a farm subsidy, by another name, such as eco fuel can only be opposed at the risk of being accused of being a traitor to the american way of life.

dc

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When I cross the border from Canada and fill my tank, my mileage goes up. It is really evident. I can get anywhere from 60 to 100 miles further on a tankful.

 

Could it be the ethanol in the gas that causes the mileage to go down?

 

Yes. See my earlier post. Ethanol would be OK, not good, but OK in engines designed for it. Mileage would still suffer.....Pound for pound, ethanol only has 60% of the energy of gasoline. In my experience, (I keep a log book of all my fill ups and maintenance), 10% ethanol gasahol yields 10% fewer miles to the gallon in my R1150RT.

 

So, it would be wash if I just payed for it and didn't get the ethanol part. Just sayin'.

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The studies I read show that ethanol is anywhere from 12-25% LESS combustable so it can cause a power drop which may require pushing a bit more on the throttle to accomplish the same task. This would possibly cost you some worse gas mileage.

 

At least that is some study findings. But as we all have seen a study can be skewed to fit various needs.

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I would get 35-37 with my Nomad on corn crap and 40-43 on non-ethanol gas.

 

Ethanol contains less heat energy per volume than conventional gas:

gasoline 114,000 BTU's per gal

E10 112,000 BTU's per gal

 

This has been discussed before but again I find it strange that a 1.8% drop in energy content causes a claimed 14% drop in fuel mileage. Something doesn't add up....

 

--

Mikko

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I would get 35-37 with my Nomad on corn crap and 40-43 on non-ethanol gas.

 

Ethanol contains less heat energy per volume than conventional gas:

gasoline 114,000 BTU's per gal

E10 112,000 BTU's per gal

 

This has been discussed before but again I find it strange that a 1.8% drop in energy content causes a claimed 14% drop in fuel mileage. Something doesn't add up....

 

--

Mikko

 

76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol

116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline

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I always find it curious that, for the most part, math is an absolute. 2+2 virtually always =4...4x4 virtually always =16....etc...

 

Yet when it comes to facts, figures, and statistics when related to a "study" are almost always subjective. You can read 2 studies on the exact same topic, performed supposedly under similar circumstances, can come up with often opposite findings.

 

Reasearch alcohol use or eggs or red meat and you will find opposing statistics based on who did the study, dare I say, who PAID for the study.

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76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol

116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline

 

You're not burning pure ethanol.

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I always find it curious that, for the most part, math is an absolute. 2+2 virtually always =4...4x4 virtually always =16....etc...

 

Yet when it comes to facts, figures, and statistics when related to a "study" are almost always subjective. You can read 2 studies on the exact same topic, performed supposedly under similar circumstances, can come up with often opposite findings.

 

Reasearch alcohol use or eggs or red meat and you will find opposing statistics based on who did the study, dare I say, who PAID for the study.

 

All I know is that the mileage has been quite a bit different. When I get the RT out on the road out of Iowa, I'll see if it holds up.

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76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol

116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline

 

You're not burning pure ethanol.

 

Nope, but it gives the range.

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Other additives or processing such as oxiganating the fuel also come in play as far as gas milage and other issues.

Different regions in the US also get different formulas or additives.

Certain additives can and will create their own problems.

 

A short fact: In the late 90s ~1996, I worked for a Pontiac -GMC dealer's service dept in the Chicago area in Illinois.

 

We had a large number of warranty repair cases on trucks with misfires and "service engine light ON".

In almost all cases the problem was injector poppet nozzles (small spring loaded ball) were sticking after the vehicle set overnight. An attempted chemical cleaning or replacement fixed the issue for a while.

 

I moved to Texas, such problem was unheard of.

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Speaking of "additives", is there something specific someone can recommend that can be poured into a tankful of gas to compensate for the effects of the ethanol? Dry Gas?

 

May not be all that necessary now but if 15% level ethanol is approved I'd like to know what I can do/add to protect the engine.

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Speaking of "additives", is there something specific someone can recommend that can be poured into a tankful of gas to compensate for the effects of the ethanol? Dry Gas?

 

May not be all that necessary now but if 15% level ethanol is approved I'd like to know what I can do/add to protect the engine.

 

Yeah, real gasoline.

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Stabil makes a product specifically for ethanol, I just saw it today at the fishing huntigd department at Academy sporting good store.

 

A bottle of Stabil gas additive for gas anti aging was 6.99.

A bottle of Stabil anti ethanol additive was $16.99

 

Hey there is a market for everything, right? $$$ Che-chingg $$$ ;)

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Stabil makes a product specifically for ethanol, I just saw it today at the fishing huntigd department at Academy sporting good store.

 

A bottle of Stabil gas additive for gas anti aging was 6.99.

A bottle of Stabil anti ethanol additive was $16.99

 

Hey there is a market for everything, right? $$$ Che-chingg $$$ ;)

 

And it's probably the same $h!t.

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I took a photo of a sign on the gas pump tonight at a Chevron in Folsom, CA.

 

The sign read:

 

"WARNING: Owners of Older or High-Mileage Vehicles

 

By 1/1/95, all gasoline sold in this area must meet Federal Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) specifications. RFG may cause a very small percentage of vehicles, particularly older or high-mileage vehicles, to have fule system leaks which may cause vehicle fires. Owners of older of high-mileage vehicles should consult an auto repair technicial about possible repair or replacement of fule system parts. Owners should monitor their fuel system for leaks, and repair any leaks immediately without driving the vehicle."

 

I guess there is something to the ethanol causing leaks in the older vehicle parts.

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Real Gas is not an option in California. The list posted earlier had NO Ca. stations listed.

 

And Blue is so much of a better color than red, Im sure blue additive is worth the extra 10 bucks.

 

As to the fuel leaks on the older cars, fuel line made before the 2000s were not alcohol resistant. The Ethanol in the fuel now just eats the older fuel line and will cause leaks eventually. ALL fuel line on vintage or antique cars and bikes needs to be replaced.

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Hollow Road Rider
Very interesting.

Unfortunately there is no gas stations listed in the immediate Austin TX area.

The Nearest to me is about 40 miles and it is a Yacht Club & Marina.

 

Why Ethanol is bad you may ask? It separates from fuel in a fairly short tiem period.

 

I don't believe this is coincident but in 2010:

My Chevy suburban 's fuel pump died ( $350 just for the module pump)

My chain saw - both the feed and return fuel line kind off melted away and leaking.

My KTM dirt bike did not fire up after about 2 months of sitting ( not battery related), but draining old gas and refilling with fresh fuel solved the starting issue right away. Never had that problem before.

 

My golf cart runs like poop ( yes the gas is getting old in it) it take s long time to burn up 6 gallons of gas with a golf cart. :)

 

Coincident? May be not.

According to a recent new paper article, our government wants to bump up the ethanol content to 15% in gas station pump gas.

I hope they don't.

 

Are you filling these toys with the lowest octane or the highest octane?

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Very interesting.

 

 

Are you filling these toys with the lowest octane or the highest octane?

 

Only what is required.

Chevy and golf cart gets 87 octane.

chainsaw 87 + two stroke mix oil

KTM need and always gets 92 - (high compression 4 stroke engine)

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In California, All grades of gasoline 87-92 have heavy on the oxygenation and up 15% Ethanol. No options here.

 

Remember, hug a tree. Screw a human being over.

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