Citation/performance award question??

[motorman587]

If you were pulled over for a moving violation, which would've cost you about $173 to $300, and the officer offered you a $10 "didn't have your registration", ticket would you take it?? No points vs. 3 to 6 points.

 

Fact is that you did have your registration, but the officer was trying to cut you a break, during this hard times. Would you file a complaint, because you had it, but you never stated it to the officer at the time. Nor did the officer see the registration, but he did ask for it.

 

Yup I got burned bad a few months ago. Trying to get a guy a break, and he complained. Lost a weeks pay for $10 ticket, so if the officer doesn't cut you a break, he may have gotten burnt.

[plext]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth is my credo. If the highway patrol cuts me a break, I wish them all the best and would never have even considered the possibility of complaining.

 

End of the day, some people are just dicks. Your guy is a big one.

[Bud]

Wow, what a bummer. Just goes to show they issue a drivers license to idiots. Sorry to hear that your act of kindness resulted in punishment.

 

And I completely understand why you would never do that again.

[Kathy R]

I'm sorry you had all that trouble. With some folks the *winkwink* is an affront to their sense of control. I would have been grateful for the downgrade.

 

Question: Did you think he didn't have a registration?

 

 

[subvet]

no good deed ever goes unpunished

[motorman587]

I'm sorry you had all that trouble. With some folks the *winkwink* is an affront to their sense of control. I would have been grateful for the downgrade.

 

Question: Did you think he didn't have a registration?

 

 

I asked for it and he look for it. He gave me documents, and not saying the registration was in not there. Not to call him a liar, I am sure it was there, just did not double check because I decided to cut him a "break". I just slapped the paper work on the car seat of the patrol car.

[Boone60]

Sorry to hear about this John. I'd take the break, say something nice to the officer and leave quietly.

 

Take the week off like a vacation and do something fun, go back to work and pick up enough overtime to cover the pay loss. Be proud of yourself for being a decent man doing a difficult job.

[beemerboy]

I could not have said it better than Plext but I can add this; I've been stopped for speeding three times in the last seven months (all while riding my evil K12s) and each time was let go with a warning. While I have no idea what "filter" each one put me through but I suspect they had their reasons. During one incident the deputy never asked for my license or registration. I suspect that's because I pulled over as soon as I saw him do a U turn and come after me. He never even put on his lights.

 

In every instance I expressed my gratefulness to the deputy or officer in a real and sincere manner. I'd have been just as grateful had I been issued a $10 citation for not having my registration.

 

I'm truly sorry this happened to you. While it's obvious you feel burned it's also obvious you have empathy for the general populace, I hope this doesn't change how you go about your profession.

[Whip]

I never showed my insurance for years hoping I would get a ticket for no insurance instead of whatever reason I got pulled over for. I would then present my insurance to the judge and go home.

 

I would never complain about it.

 

It worked a few times. Now our city has a repo policy if you don't carry your proof of insurance they can impound your vehicle on the spot.

 

So....I try to remember to carry my insurance.

 

 

Your situation is like so many bad bidness deals, one side gives a little the other tries to take advantage of what they see as advantage leverage or weakness.

 

Very sorry this happen to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[upflying]

I can see how you could get in trouble for negotiating reduced fine offenses with motorists. My first reaction as a supervisor is some form of additional gratuity, corruption or favoritism also occurred during the stop. A traffic stop is not the place and time to cut deals with drivers. Cutting deals must be done in a courtroom. Too many drivers have their iPhone audio and video rolling. At most I would have reduced speed from 20 over to 15 over on a ticket. This allows the driver to avoid a mandatory suspended DL.

My attitude towards stops is cite or warn, there is no middle ground. Professionalism and ethics demands it. I'm sorry one of our finest members got a one week suspension but based on the circumstances I can see where John's employer has an issue with this.

On a related matter, some Ca cities are issuing "administrative" tickets instead of regular traffic tickets. This is a win-win for the driver who pays a reduced fine and avoids having a point show up on their DMV record. The intent is to keep the entire fine within the issuing jurisdiction and cut the state and county out of the deal. Understandably the state of Ca is very upset with this program.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/12/california-cities-skirt-law-with-administrative-speeding-tickets/

[Lawman]

What was the point of the stop?

1. Give a ticket to keep the sgt. happy?

2. Take action against a violator who acted recklessly and put others in needless danger?

3. Boredom

4. You like messin with folks?

 

I ask because I think when we ticket for some offense that is of little importance we undermine the purpose of traffic enforcement and contribute to the problem of lack of respect for the police and the law..I've done similar things on traffic stops many times but my reason was to keep the sgt. happy..That's one of the things wrong with quotas.

[motorman587]

Sorry to hear about this John. I'd take the break, say something nice to the officer and leave quietly.

 

Take the week off like a vacation and do something fun, go back to work and pick up enough overtime to cover the pay loss. Be proud of yourself for being a decent man doing a difficult job.

 

Thanks Dan, went to Texas for a middle school reunion........

[motorman587]

I can see how you could get in trouble for negotiating reduced fine offenses with motorists. My first reaction as a supervisor is some form of additional gratuity, corruption or favoritism also occurred during the stop. A traffic stop is not the place and time to cut deals with drivers. Cutting deals must be done in a courtroom. Too many drivers have their iPhone audio and video rolling. At most I would have reduced speed from 20 over to 15 over on a ticket. This allows the driver to avoid a mandatory suspended DL.

My attitude towards stops is cite or warn, there is no middle ground. Professionalism and ethics demands it. I'm sorry one of our finest members got a one week suspension but based on the circumstances I can see where John's employer has an issue with this.

On a related matter, some Ca cities are issuing "administrative" tickets instead of regular traffic tickets. This is a win-win for the driver who pays a reduced fine and avoids having a point show up on their DMV record. The intent is to keep the entire fine within the issuing jurisdiction and cut the state and county out of the deal. Understandably the state of Ca is very upset with this program.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/12/california-cities-skirt-law-with-administrative-speeding-tickets/

I was sustained on falsifying official documents. I do not have a problem with officer giving breaks, we do it all the time. To me changing the speed is more falsifying.

[motorman587]

What was the point of the stop?

1. Give a ticket to keep the sgt. happy?

2. Take action against a violator who acted recklessly and put others in needless danger?

3. Boredom

4. You like messin with folks?

 

I ask because I think when we ticket for some offense that is of little importance we undermine the purpose of traffic enforcement and contribute to the problem of lack of respect for the police and the law..I've done similar things on traffic stops many times but my reason was to keep the sgt. happy..That's one of the things wrong with quotas.

1. I do not have do anything. So making the Sgt happy was not that point.

 

2. I was going to write the guy for the violation, but he was arguing so I did not want to get a complaint and have to justify what I did.

 

3. No not boredom, love to work and I work hard.

 

4. No I do not mess with folks. I do want needs to be done. I work in the worst part of town, which I requested. I understand why people do what they do in the bad part of town.

 

 

[motorman587]

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-tallahassee/traffic-citation-complaint-cost-officer-1000-come-on-man

 

 

Article on my suspension.

[4wheeldog]

2. I was going to write the guy for the violation, but he was arguing so I did not want to get a complaint and have to justify what I did.

 

This should have indicated to you that the guy was trouble, no matter what you did. Giving a jaw flapper a break is bound to blow up in your face. Just sayin'.

[JohnnyJ]

I say use your resources to find out where this ungrateful A** H*** lives. Contact a buddy in the PD that owes you a favor and have him deal with it...

 

 

JohnnyJ

[Mister Tee]

Let me make sure I understand the options correctly, because it doesn't make sense:

 

1. Pay a $300 ticket for a moving violation, with no points or,

 

2. Pay a $10 ticket for no registration but at the cost of up to six points.

 

Seems backwards to me. But in that particular case, in order of preference, I would probably take the $10 ticket, show the judge the registration I "forgot" and hopefully get out of at least the points. If that isn't an option, I'd probably take the more expensive moving violation tickets because six points is a heavy hit on the insurance.

[sardineone]

I say use your resources to find out where this ungrateful A** H*** lives. Contact a buddy in the PD that owes you a favor and have him deal with it

+1 to Johnny J if it were that simple!

I can only speak for myself but, I'd welcome any break from a LEO. I could use the help at times when the little devil speaks to me inside my helmet.............and I listen!

[motorman587]

2. I was going to write the guy for the violation, but he was arguing so I did not want to get a complaint and have to justify what I did.

 

This should have indicated to you that the guy was trouble, no matter what you did. Giving a jaw flapper a break is bound to blow up in your face. Just sayin'.

 

And I learned the hard way, you are correct, will not happen again. Sad part is I do not cut any breaks. What I stop you for is what you get.

[motorman587]

Let me make sure I understand the options correctly, because it doesn't make sense:

 

1. Pay a $300 ticket for a moving violation, with no points or,

 

2. Pay a $10 ticket for no registration but at the cost of up to six points.

 

Seems backwards to me. But in that particular case, in order of preference, I would probably take the $10 ticket, show the judge the registration I "forgot" and hopefully get out of at least the points. If that isn't an option, I'd probably take the more expensive moving violation tickets because six points is a heavy hit on the insurance.

 

Let me clear it up. No signal, the reason for stop, there were two. Could have written multi tickets. Two moving would've 6 points. Not displaying your registration at the time of stop, $10 dismissal fee, no points, as long as registration is valid at the stop, not having a registration citation like that in the last 12 months or 5 in a life time.

[Chris K]

A "friend of mine" was given this choice between a speeding ticket or failure to provide registration ticket in VA. He happily paid the $35 fine for failure to provide registration.

[motorman587]

A "friend of mine" was given this choice between a speeding ticket or failure to provide registration ticket in VA. He happily paid the $35 fine for failure to provide registration.

 

wheeeu I feel normal.............lol

[lawnchairboy]

unbelievable.

 

what a tool.

 

I would have washed your bike for you.

[IT_Mike]

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience John. I would have appreciated the slack.

 

I've always preferred an equipment violation, or something similar, to a speeding ticket. I don't object to the fines, but the points hurt. Now that I live in SE VA, I've discovered the officers don't even discuss the violation. It's very mechanical; you're stopped, they gather your documents, write the ticket, and explain when you're scheduled to show up.

 

This guy was an idiot and a fool. Now that he's turned you off, anyone you stop will pay for it.

[CoarsegoldKid]

...some Ca cities are issuing "administrative" tickets instead of regular traffic tickets. This is a win-win for the driver who pays a reduced fine and avoids having a point show up on their DMV record.

 

This is a great idea. We should send any city that does this an administration donation in the interest of all motorcyclists everywhere. Hugs to them.

[motorman587]

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience John. I would have appreciated the slack.

 

I've always preferred an equipment violation, or something similar, to a speeding ticket. I don't object to the fines, but the points hurt. Now that I live in SE VA, I've discovered the officers don't even discuss the violation. It's very mechanical; you're stopped, they gather your documents, write the ticket, and explain when you're scheduled to show up.

 

This guy was an idiot and a fool. Now that he's turned you off, anyone you stop will pay for it.

 

Mike,

I just do things differently. I now just let a person go with a warning than attempt to generate numbers ie issue a citation........

[upflying]

2. I was going to write the guy for the violation, but he was arguing so I did not want to get a complaint and have to justify what I did.

 

This should have indicated to you that the guy was trouble, no matter what you did. Giving a jaw flapper a break is bound to blow up in your face. Just sayin'.

Agree, anyone who fails the attitude test automatically gets stubbed to the fullest. If someone threatens to make a complaint about me, I always encourage them to do so. My digital voice recorder is always on with these people.

[upflying]

John, some Ca agencies are buying these things for the officers. It is clipped to your shirt pocket and you flip it on when you encounter an Adam Henry.

Could have gone a long way when mitigating this complaint. $130 also goes a long way in preventing a lawsuit.

http://www.spytechs.com/spy_cameras/police-camcorder.htm

[motorman587]

John, some Ca agencies are buying these things for the officers. It is clipped to your shirt pocket and you flip it on when you encounter an Adam Henry.

Could have gone a long way when mitigating this complaint. $130 also goes a long way in preventing a lawsuit.

http://www.spytechs.com/spy_cameras/police-camcorder.htm

 

On motors we used a digital voice recorders until the policy change.....then we could not use them anymore. I have a in car camera now, so all is good.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

One thing I noticed about going from gov't paydays to private paydays for defense contractors.

Idiots as supervisors and managers in private industry don't last, or the business doesn't last. I haven't had a single complaint about a sup or manager since getting retired in 97.

 

I hope the subtlety isn't lost on anyone.

[David13]

Ok, subtlety.

As I understand the story Motor was ultimately exonerated from the state level. Which should, I think, include back due pay.

I think it was not possible to id the complainant as an Adam Henry at the outset.

We all at times have to weather a storm.

I think the important outcome is to not let it sour your attitude, or make you paranoid.

dc

[EffBee]

Had a new, unopened 4-oz jar of Vegemite with me as I passed through airport security on a trip recently (3-oz. containers of any sort being the TSA limit). Older TSA agent looked at it and asked me, "What's this." I tried to explain that it's Vegemite and it's Australian and you mix it with butter and spread it on bread. Twice he interrupted me asking, "It's for your personal use?" yet I was so focused on explaining that it was food, that I missed his cue until he winked at me. "I like it too," he said. "Not many people over here do."

 

Nice guy. Him I hope gets Heather Locklear on a day when she's pissy.

[Quinn]

John, did he understand that you were giving him a break? Or did he just think he had bullied you into dropping all possible charges except the registration one? Of course I don't imagine you can just say, "You were driving like an idiot and I really stopped you to see if you were drunk or impaired. You were speeding and I should charge you with that at a cost to you of 300 bucks, but will give you a break since you were apparently just being careless and not a disaster on wheels."

 

---

 

 

 

----

 

 

[yabadabapal]

I read the story and some info on the report. The FDLE basically told your Chief, "cut out the nonsense" and the FDLE dropped all charges. I think there is a chance you might get your back pay for the one week. I hope so. I cant wait to see what happens when and if you ever stop this guy again. Citations up the ying yang.

You did the right thing.

[motorman587]

John, did he understand that you were giving him a break? Or did he just think he had bullied you into dropping all possible charges except the registration one? Of course I don't imagine you can just say, "You were driving like an idiot and I really stopped you to see if you were drunk or impaired. You were speeding and I should charge you with that at a cost to you of 300 bucks, but will give you a break since you were apparently just being careless and not a disaster on wheels."

 

---

 

 

 

----

 

Quinn,

He knew because at the end of the stop, he shook my hand and thanked me.

 

I think and someone pointed this out, he felt the stop was not valid. He then when he got the bs registration citation, which he did not have the balls to tell me, "Hey, I have my registration right here", he call complaint got everything dismissed.

 

He did not bullie me, just remember complaining, should have been my first clue. I did not want him complaining about a bs traffic stop.

[motorman587]

I read the story and some info on the report. The FDLE basically told your Chief, "cut out the nonsense" and the FDLE dropped all charges. I think there is a chance you might get your back pay for the one week. I hope so. I cant wait to see what happens when and if you ever stop this guy again. Citations up the ying yang.

You did the right thing.

 

Not holding my breath.........lol

[KDeline]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again. How to word this? The law is not inforced in the spirit it was written, it's black and white. Why does a patrolmen get to decide the grey area? This is the biggest problem I have with this. If you took the time to pull them over, be it a loud mouth, pretty girl, old person that looks like they don't have money for food, etc. you give them the ticket, otherwise do not pull them over. Period. YOU should not be allowed that authority. You could have just had a fight with your wife, kid, mother, or you could have just saved someones life. You cannot tell me any of this will not affect decisions you make on the next traffic stop. This is what a judge is for. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked myself INTO a ticket. I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

[MotorinLA]

It seems that more officers get in trouble for small "silly" things these days, than big bad violations of law or policy.

 

You try to give a guy a break and your command staff goes after you for "falsifying an official document". Must be nice to know your department's got your back... NOT! :frown:

[plext]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again.

You'd really rather have automatons that follow the law to the letter and bring no humanity to the process whatsover whether for good or ill?

 

Not the kind of world I want. You get the good and the bad, the ups and the downs, it's part of being human and learning what makes people tick and maybe a little of what makes you tick.

 

I'm hardly a bleeding heart hand wringer, but keep my world human thanks very much.

 

A good police force is the cornerstone of any civilised nation in my view. Officer discretion well applied is even more the cornerstone of a good police force.

[Boffin]

I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

 

Perhaps it is because a traffic officer's job is traffic safety. A polite word, with a warning, may be all that is needed to remind road users of their duty of care to those around them. Your 'wasted' time may be all the punishment that is needed to keep others safe. If your personal makeup does not let you see that, then perhaps the ticket will - but I suspect that in those circumstances, most people in that group see the officer at fault, not themselves for the conduct that led to the stop.

 

Andy

[Lawman]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again. How to word this? The law is not inforced in the spirit it was written, it's black and white. Why does a patrolmen get to decide the grey area? This is the biggest problem I have with this. If you took the time to pull them over, be it a loud mouth, pretty girl, old person that looks like they don't have money for food, etc. you give them the ticket, otherwise do not pull them over. Period. YOU should not be allowed that authority. You could have just had a fight with your wife, kid, mother, or you could have just saved someones life. You cannot tell me any of this will not affect decisions you make on the next traffic stop. This is what a judge is for. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked myself INTO a ticket. I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

 

"If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that." Imagine that...

 

You only think you don't want officers to have discretion..Give that more thought and I think you'll change your mind..

[IT_Mike]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again. How to word this? The law is not inforced in the spirit it was written, it's black and white. Why does a patrolmen get to decide the grey area? This is the biggest problem I have with this. If you took the time to pull them over, be it a loud mouth, pretty girl, old person that looks like they don't have money for food, etc. you give them the ticket, otherwise do not pull them over. Period. YOU should not be allowed that authority. You could have just had a fight with your wife, kid, mother, or you could have just saved someones life. You cannot tell me any of this will not affect decisions you make on the next traffic stop. This is what a judge is for. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked myself INTO a ticket. I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

 

It's just this kind of attitude (an the original offender's) that has led us from 'Peace Officers' to LEO. I see this transition as a downward slope for civilization.

 

[Skywagon]

John...being a good man isn't always popular even with your department, but being a good man is something no one can take away from you.

 

Thanks for all the good work you do and putting it on the line for us everyday.

[TyTass]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again. How to word this? The law is not inforced in the spirit it was written, it's black and white. Why does a patrolmen get to decide the grey area? This is the biggest problem I have with this. If you took the time to pull them over, be it a loud mouth, pretty girl, old person that looks like they don't have money for food, etc. you give them the ticket, otherwise do not pull them over. Period. YOU should not be allowed that authority. You could have just had a fight with your wife, kid, mother, or you could have just saved someones life. You cannot tell me any of this will not affect decisions you make on the next traffic stop. This is what a judge is for. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked myself INTO a ticket. I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

 

"If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that." Imagine that...

 

You only think you don't want officers to have discretion..Give that more thought and I think you'll change your mind..

Billy,

 

Good point! There are numerous occasions I hope beyond any expectation that LEOs continuously exercise judgment and discretion ... and it ain't just about tickets either.

 

John,

 

Sorry your reasonable nature and your integrity cost you both money and possible standing within your department. But as someone else rightly pointed out, neither your department nor the a$$hat you cut a brake to can diminish you.

 

Should you choose to not cut others (including me) a break for fear of another round of backlash (in the form of departmental punitive measures), that doesn't mean you are less a person.

[KDeline]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again. How to word this? The law is not inforced in the spirit it was written, it's black and white. Why does a patrolmen get to decide the grey area? This is the biggest problem I have with this. If you took the time to pull them over, be it a loud mouth, pretty girl, old person that looks like they don't have money for food, etc. you give them the ticket, otherwise do not pull them over. Period. YOU should not be allowed that authority. You could have just had a fight with your wife, kid, mother, or you could have just saved someones life. You cannot tell me any of this will not affect decisions you make on the next traffic stop. This is what a judge is for. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked myself INTO a ticket. I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

 

"If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that." Imagine that...

 

You only think you don't want officers to have discretion..Give that more thought and I think you'll change your mind..

 

Nope. Everyone has their own good reason to break the law. Joe is a race car driver and feels he is a better driver versus John trying to get his pregnant wife to the hospital. Both are speeding, both are guilty. No excuse. This is what the letter of the law is. Kudo's for the OP to try to be nice, but that was not inforcing the law that was broken, and what he took an oath to do. It bites back.

[Kathy R]

Actually, I can understand Ken's point. And that may be part of the problem for an officer and a citizen. Different people have different expectations of what is means to be pulled over.

 

 

[upflying]

Actually, I can understand Ken's point. And that may be part of the problem for an officer and a citizen. Different people have different perceptions of what is means to be pulled over.

 

fixed it

[Lawman]

Well I'm be the bad guy........again. How to word this? The law is not inforced in the spirit it was written, it's black and white. Why does a patrolmen get to decide the grey area? This is the biggest problem I have with this. If you took the time to pull them over, be it a loud mouth, pretty girl, old person that looks like they don't have money for food, etc. you give them the ticket, otherwise do not pull them over. Period. YOU should not be allowed that authority. You could have just had a fight with your wife, kid, mother, or you could have just saved someones life. You cannot tell me any of this will not affect decisions you make on the next traffic stop. This is what a judge is for. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked myself INTO a ticket. I always ask "If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that. Just my view.

 

"If it wasn't that bad then why are you wasting my time with this stop?" Never goes well after that." Imagine that...

 

You only think you don't want officers to have discretion..Give that more thought and I think you'll change your mind..

 

Nope. Everyone has their own good reason to break the law. Joe is a race car driver and feels he is a better driver versus John trying to get his pregnant wife to the hospital. Both are speeding, both are guilty. No excuse. This is what the letter of the law is. Kudo's for the OP to try to be nice, but that was not inforcing the law that was broken, and what he took an oath to do. It bites back.

 

Speed limit is 70 m.p.h. I clock you at 71 m.p.h. during clear dry day and you're the only one on the road. You cool with getting a ticket as long as I treat everyone the same?

[Kathy R]

Actually, I can understand Ken's point. And that may be part of the problem for an officer and a citizen. Different people have different perceptions of what is means to be pulled over.

 

fixed it

 

No, the word I used was what I meant.