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UAW wants to share benefits of "amazing turnaround"


John Ranalletta

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Mark-

 

Yes, of course. Efforts to "harmonize" or standardize globally between industrialized countries makes sense and would save the manufacturers billions. I'm all for it.

 

My original point is pretty simple - you simply can't blame the government's fuel economy standards or safety standards for being a major factor in Detroit's woes, and the proof is that other manufacturers design and build their cars here to the same exact standards profitably.

 

Further, it's an insult to Americans to suggest we cannot do the same, and instead place the blame on some nebulous "Big Bro."

 

Finally, for grossly obvious political and environmental reasons, raising fleet mileage requirements is certainly a good thing, as are the minimal safety standards we have in place. Can safety and fuel economy coexist? Duh! Compare any car of today to the same model from 10 years ago, check fuel economy, and check crash test scores or at least standard levels of safety equipment. I take issue with those who suggest Americans cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

-MKL

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There is one for the records. Please enlighten us to the facts without the spin and hyperbole.

 

Auto industry experts had predicted exactly what has happen for many many years.

 

Now it happens and no one wants to believe they had been warned.

 

 

As a proud Detroiter it saddens me.

 

I wonder which industry is next....

 

 

 

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Whip, when one makes a statement which has no real basis in reality, it is up to that person to prove what he's saying.

 

In this case your main contention is that governmental fuel economy standards (CAFE) of 35 years ago are the main cause behind Detroit's woes of today, and you are asking me to list facts as to why that is wrong?

 

Books have been written about what was ailing Detroit for over 25 years. And tons of newspaper articles as well, some from unbiased sources. So it's easy for you to prove to yourself why your contention is incorrect - just read 'em. The latest one I've read is Rattner's "Overhaul." He's probably not unbiased, but he does give an investment banker's point of view. Get back to us when you find ONE mention from anybody in or outside the industry who sites CAFE as even a minor reason (nevermind a major one) for the bankruptcy.

 

-MKL

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I said Big Bro killed Detroit.

 

CAFE was only one example, the others may get a little too political.

 

Read More here

 

I have read some of those books you talked about, and almost everyone one of them puts at least part of the blame at the feet of Big Bro.

 

I am done with this dead horse. You have done a good job of getting your point of view out there. I have done the best I could against a very skilled and experienced writer.

 

Thank you for going easy on me.

 

 

Please enjoy success in the New Year!!!

 

 

I wish you only the best.

 

L

 

 

BTW....anyone that wants to do there own research on the subject just go to Google and type in...Detroit Cafe Standards. Read for yourself.

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Whip, I appreciate your kind comments. I don't think I'm skilled or experienced because I write a motorcycle column here or there. I'm just a guy who hated Detroit for a long time and wants to like them, and wants them to succeeed for the sake of my country's manufacturing sector of which I'm a part.

 

Now, regarding your link, notice it's written in 2008. The entire premise of the writer's article - that the UAW has not sacrificed - is of course completely false. I must say, in big captial letters, that I FEEL THE UAW IS ONE OF THE MAIN CAUSES OF DETROIT'S MALADIES. I say this so nobody thinks I am defending them blindly, because that is far from the case.

 

But that said, that article was written before some of the agreements were reached - two-tier wage agreements with the UAW that in fact have starting hires earning equivalent wages and benefits to the "transplants." All that's left is legacy, but the way forward was paved with sacrifice from all parties, from bondholders to line workers. The opinion piece you reference is, therefore, completely obsolete in light of what actually took place.

 

I am reminded here of my days riding a Harley back in the late 1990s. Back then the carburated bikes ran like absolute crap off the showroom floor, and a virulent and universally accepted hatred of the dreaded "EPA" thrived among riders. To them, I simply said: EVERY bike must comply with the same rules, and not every one runs like crap. So stop bitching about the EPA, and start bitching at Harley to improve their product like everyone else has had to do.

 

Same here. If you love Detroit like you say, stop making excuses for them, because nobody else is making excuses, and nearly everyone else is making a profit UNDER THE SAME EXACT RULES with American workers building the cars. Therefore, logically, the rules aren't the issue.

 

-MKL

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I'm just a guy who hated Detroit for a long time and wants to like them

 

I understand, but it depresses me.

 

 

On many subjects I am on the far right side.(In case you haven't guessed) When it comes to the UAW, I ain't. They negotiated everything they got. There was another side at those tables and they folded almost every time. Union have their place, I share many of the same goals they do. Both sides need to rethink their contracts and relationships.

 

I think they will.

 

I don't blame them for the downfall of the Big 4/3.

 

Make me car czar and I could fix it in 6 months, by giving peeps more choices and putting Big Bro in a box...very very small box.

 

:grin:

 

 

 

 

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Y'all need to spend some time with my friend who spent 41 years at GM. He came up through the ranks from the shop floor to management.

He was a great people person and trouble-shooter, so GM senior management sent him in to oversee GM plants (as Plant Manager, Acting or otherwise) that had quality "issues". He blamed both sides for the problems (management and union) but, during the "go go" years, it was the union that bore the greater blame. They bullied and grabbed as they understood that management would cave in most every time to both economic and political pressures!

 

 

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Y'all need to spend some time with my friend who spent 41 years at GM. He came up through the ranks from the shop floor to management.

He was a great people person and trouble-shooter, so GM senior management sent him in to oversee GM plants (as Plant Manager, Acting or otherwise) that had quality "issues". He blamed both sides for the problems (management and union) but, during the "go go" years, it was the union that bore the greater blame. They bullied and grabbed as they understood that management would cave in most every time to both economic and political pressures!

 

Y'all needed to spend some time with my father, he spent 36 years at GM, started as a fork lift truck driver, ended up managing a multi-national truck parts department. This was in England of course but it seems to have followed the same pattern. He was disgusted with both the unions and management, the unions bullied the company and vice versa. He told a story of one time when they had over-produced, rather than try to cut production reasonably management deliberately put regulations in place that they knew would cause a strike, it did, when the backlog was reduced they withdrew the new rules.
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CoarsegoldKid
Nice of youse boys to want to deny the WORKERS what they gave up to make the corporate staff and share holders more wealthy.

What share holder got wealthy? I was a share holder and all I got was a large middle digit salute. Poof, all gone. Not even a thank you for your support.

 

Now with Ford I made money. I'll never buy a GM automotive product as long as I live.

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For the record, let me remind you I was talking about their(Union's) goals not their methods.

 

 

For the record you cannot separate the two in this case, as history clearly shows. The union - and its feckless management - was incredibly greedy and short-sighted. The combination of these two entities constitutes 95% of the problem, and you have yet to point the finger at anyone but government.

 

Study what Rattner and Co. found when they delved into GM's books, and uncovered the relations fostered between management and the unions. Maybe some facts would change your tune.

 

-MKL

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To clarify: by "its feckless management" I was talking about GM, not the union's management per se. Gettlefinger was quite instrumental in forging the "Shiny New GM" deal and he deserves credit for his foresight.

 

-MKL

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Old story: Two guys selling water melons from the back of a truck. Buy them for $1.00 sell them for $1.00. One of them says we have to do something, the other says "You are right, we need to buy a bigger truck."

 

Apply this story to any or all of the above posts.

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