hopz Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 February 5, 2011. It went smoothly with the exception of getting the collar up over the retaining ring on the starter shaft. We had to use a gear puller and a lot of ugly faces to coax the collar onto the retaining ring. It is my experience that a project such as this will occasionally require strong adult language... are you sure you want to attempt this with a relative nearby? Link to comment
kmac Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 That is what these keys are for on the key board..@&*$#!~>< Use them with discretion though, this is a family site... Link to comment
Glenn Reed Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 This is just another lesson the son will learn, and the way the rest of the project is going, I would say learn well! Link to comment
BFish Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 it won't run if cursing isn't involved. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think of profanity as a lubricant. The other lubricant (beer) is better saved until after the work is finished for the day, else it costs you more profanity from having to clear up after stupid mistakes made while under the influence. Of course, YMMV. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 February 8, 2011. Big box of parts arrived on Monday and we got a head start on the weekend work. Rear main engine seal was renewed. Seal Removed New Seal New Seal Installed And the updated clutch pack went in. Clutch Housing Back In Clutch Pack Aligned Clutch Complete I am not looking forward to splitting the gearbox this weekend. Cheers! Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 When you installed the clutch pack, did you make sure that the paint marks on the rotating bits were distributed opposite one another? There is a heavy point on each piece marked with paint. If they are installed all on one side, you can get some annoying vibration. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 When you installed the clutch pack, did you make sure that the paint marks on the rotating bits were distributed opposite one another? There is a heavy point on each piece marked with paint. If they are installed all on one side, you can get some annoying vibration. Yes I knew about that one and it is called out in the shop manual, however I was a little surprised about the need to lube the Diaphragm spring. Link to comment
dan cata Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 When you installed the clutch pack, did you make sure that the paint marks on the rotating bits were distributed opposite one another? There is a heavy point on each piece marked with paint. If they are installed all on one side, you can get some annoying vibration. Yes I knew about that one and it is called out in the shop manual, however I was a little surprised about the need to lube the Diaphragm spring. The white sport must be arranged in 120 degrees manner, ~ like the Mercedes Benz logo But I am sure you already know that I found out that they cannot be arranged at 120 degrees, one angle has to be bigger, like 150... Anyway... Do you think you could make a drawing of the clutch alignment tool you have? I would like to build one for myself. I have been using a socket from the toolbox, but since this tool is very easy to make once you have the dimmensions, I would like to have one Dan. Link to comment
Charles Elms Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 What are you using to clean the cases? They look like brand new. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I didn't find the clutch alignment tool necessary. You can eyeball it. I ordered one from BMW, but by the time it came in, I had already assembled the bike. Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Eyeball it? That never worked for me replacing clutches on cars. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The pressure plate holds the friction plate in place. Like I say, I didn't have any problems. YMMV. Link to comment
Ponch Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 With cars, there is a pilot bearing. If the input shaft can't engage the pilot bearing because it isn't lined up precisely, you'll never get the transmission bolted to the bellhousing/engine. the best clutch alignment tool is an input shaft from a transmission. I took one out of a bad tranny and it worked well. Link to comment
kmac Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Cars are different. The trans input shaft goes all the way thru and has to align with the pilot bearing in the crank end. On the R motors the trans input shaft is short like a stub shaft and it is a bit less critical to get dead center like the auto style. Still a good idea to use an alignment tool of some sort. Link to comment
JR356 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 it won't run if cursing isn't involved. And some blood loss and a few leftover parts,at least that's what all the old shadetree mechanics used to say:dopeslap: JR356 Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Anyway... Do you think you could make a drawing of the clutch alignment tool you have? I would like to build one for myself. I have been using a socket from the toolbox, but since this tool is very easy to make once you have the dimmensions, I would like to have one Sure, I can do that. I'll take some measurement when I get home from work tonight. The one I have was hand made by a guy out of a piece of stock aluminum. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 What are you using to clean the cases? They look like brand new. A tooth brush and some diluted citrus based degreaser. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 It is funny you all are talking about the correlation of cursing and mechanical projects. My 15 year old son is at the age where he and his buddies like to curse about everything and I am trying to get him to stop. Clearly I am no boy scout, but I have cleaned up my language over the years and hope he will do the same. So when that wrench slipped, driving my knuckles into the case, I had to bite my lips and swallow that word that was struggling to escape. Link to comment
flying_monkey Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Being a mechanic and not swearing is just as impossible as playing pool and not swearing. Me, I still have a strong Navy accent. Ed Link to comment
kmac Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Dag Nabbit...kinda like cursing without the 4 letters... Link to comment
dan cata Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Since you are talking here about gearboxes, clutches and such, I would like to ask a question: I just bought a 1100GS '98 gearbox, M97, and the one I have is M94. Is there any way I can find out if it skips in any gear besides taking it apart? The GS had 87k km's and hit a car. Also, should I change the seals on it while it's apart? Even if they do not leak? Dan. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Dimensions of Centering Tool Working from right to left there are four segments. 1st segment is 21.85 mm diameter and 104mm long to the top of the shoulder 2nd segment is 18.25 mm diameter and 23 mm long to the top of the shoulder 3rd segment is 6.35 mm diameter and 17.8 mm long to the top of the shoulder 4th segment is 6.0 mm diameter and 24.28 mm long to the top The 3rd and 4th segment are made up of one piece of stock that is set in the base piece of stock –segment 1&2 Segment 1&2 are turned out of a piece of aluminum and segment 3&4 are steel. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Also, should I change the seals on it while it's apart? Even if they do not leak? I think it makes sense to change all the seals while you are in there. The cost is minimal as well as the effort. Link to comment
dan cata Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks for the info! I appreciate the effort Dan. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If it is an M97 you should be OK. BMW went back to undercutting the shifter dogs after the M94 problems. You should not have that particular problem. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 We are pulling the guts out of the gearbox tomorrow to change the seals. Any last words of advice or any prayers offered? Cheers! Link to comment
kmac Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 No advice from me since i have never done it, but i would like to read a write up on the step by step from someone like you with first hand experience... Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Be very careful to photograph the guts once you have one side off, before you start disassembly. The three shafts come out interlocked and go back that way. You may need to heat the case to get it apart. You will definitely need to heat the case to put it back together and make sure that the bearings/shafts are completely seated. Keep very careful track of what shims come from what shaft and put them all back exactly where they came from in the same order. Watch out that the floating ball bearings that ride in the shifter drum grooves don't drop into the bottom of the case when you are reassembling. Look for wear on the shifter forks and smoothness on hand-turning the bearings. Keep everything clean. You'll need a good liquid gasket sealer when you put the cases back together. That's about all I remember from my experience changing the seals. Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 When on my '99 R1100RT the clutch splines gave up at around 80K miles, we not only replaced the input shaft and seals, but also all the bearings. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 February 12, 2011 Pulling apart the gearbox was not as bad as I thought it would be. Nearly all the components are in excellent shape without any signs of abnormal wear and tear. The exception is shifter fork #2. It is scored across the base. That is the only blemish on any of the forks or any other component for that matter. I guess I have one of the good M94s? Is this something to be concerned about? Input shaft with tapered roller bearings. This is what it looked like when I pulled the cover. Replacing the seals was quick and easy. I could finish up the job tomorrow, but I am waiting on the Loctite gasket maker—not a common item at the automotive stores. Link to comment
dan cata Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I followed your advice on cleaning the gearbox and now mine looks like new (on the outside at least) too Dan. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Nearly all the components are in excellent shape without any signs of abnormal wear and tear. The exception is shifter fork #2. It is scored across the base. That is the only blemish on any of the forks or any other component for that matter. I guess I have one of the good M94s? Is this something to be concerned about? The scoring on the #2 shifter fork is identical to the scoring on mine when I took my box apart for seals at 60K miles. The good news is that that fork is still in use in my box. The bad news is that after assembly, I found that it was skipping in second gear (I had not previously ridden the bike prior to purchase due to a blown clutch). Also, susequent to putting the bike back on the road, it started to eat a bearing on the input shaft. I ended up shipping my M94 away to an expert who brought it up to M97 specs and replaced the bad bearing. When you know that things are going south: My shifter fork wear: So, the long and short story is that the scoring on the shifter fork may mean problems down the road, but at this point, its not definite. The only way to know for sure is to ride it and watch the gearbox oil for glittering metalic particles. You might want to change the gearbox oil after you've put a couple thousand miles on it, just to take a look (assuming no skipping). My skipping problem showed up when accelerating up a steep grade in second gear, shifting up from first an normal RPMs, but using more throttle than on the level. There was one particular hill near where I live that always caused it to pop out for a moment and then reconnect. Link to comment
Edgar Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Greg, Shimming the box back together is very important. and if you have changed anything inside then you probably need to re-shim. One of the boxes that sent to Anton was not shimmed correctly and started skipping in 2nd after a very short time. The dealer did this repair.....The marks on the shift forks aren't good. Please consider contacting Bruno about some machine work. You don't want to be back inside there in August. The guys that see these things all the time get it right. The M94's seem to be like cancer. Once you open em up they go downhill pretty quick. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks guys for the advice and warnings. I didn't change a thing in the box with the exception of the seals. There rear input seal was leaking and the reason I opened the box to begin with. Since I was in there I changed all of them. I'm going to put it back together just like I found it and use it as long as I can. Cheers! Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 February 15, 2011 We managed to get the gearbox buttoned up and back in the bike tonight. I'd rather be doing my homework.... The ole bolts in the cardboard trick... Link to comment
kmac Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'd rather be doing ANYTHING BUT home work....and i have been out of school for 29 years and I still have nightmares... Link to comment
hopz Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I never did hear the cleaning advice... care to pass it along again? Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I am using a run of the mill citrus based degreaser, diluted with some water and applied with a spray bottle. That, a tooth brush and another spray bottle filled with water; to rinse away the the crust, seems to be getting much of grease and tar off the cases. Link to comment
eddd Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I am using a run of the mill citrus based degreaser, diluted with some water and applied with a spray bottle. That, a tooth brush and another spray bottle filled with water; to rinse away the the crust, seems to be getting much of grease and tar off the cases. Good tip. I tried it today. My cases and teeth are clean, and my breath has a nice citrus smell. Link to comment
ollka Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Citrus oils are well known detergents and widely used in machine- and food industry. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Good tip. I tried it today. My cases and teeth are clean, and my breath has a nice citrus smell. Don't forget to floss. Link to comment
swmckinley Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am in the printing industry and we use a citrus based hand cleaner to remove UV inks from everything including our hands. Works great. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Last night I installed the new neutral and gear indicator switches into the back of the gearbox. While I was in there I noticed a section of the input shaft rear seal turned inside out. I just couldn't believe it. The only reason I went into the box to begin with was to repair a leaky seal. And do you want to guess which one? Ding, ding, ding, yep you guessed it, the input shaft rear seal. Out of the five gearbox seals, it was the only one leaking, but of course since I was in there I went ahead and replaced all of them. I tired several things that didn’t work, but finally stumbled onto something that did. I cut up a plastic coke bottle in several long strips-- shaping one end into a point. The plastic was thin enough to fit between the seal and the shaft. I slipped the plastic into a good section of the seal and slowing working it around through the section that was turned inside out. Several passes later the seal was restored to its proper position, the sun came out and the birds started singing. Link to comment
eddd Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Though you are trying to keep from cussing, I guessing it is a pretty good bet that a few slipped out upon your discovery of the problem with the seal. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Yikes! Brilliant solution, though. I hope it doesn't leak... Link to comment
11101110 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'd rather be doing ANYTHING BUT home work....and i have been out of school for 29 years and I still have nightmares... Is that what I have to look forward to? Homework and not finding my class nightmares for the rest of my life? I thought they would eventually go away. Link to comment
NonComp Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Is that what I have to look forward to? Homework and not finding my class nightmares for the rest of my life? I thought they would eventually go away.Mine never did. Seriously. Link to comment
AndyS Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Yikes! Brilliant solution, though. I hope it doesn't leak... +1. After going in so deep I would really be concerned that I had made it worse than before I started. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.