GS-911 Diagnostic Tool

[Steve Kolenda]

I am going to spring for the GS-911 diagnostic tool and planned on buying the USB version which is $50.00 cheaper than the Bluetooth model. Any functionality lost with the USB version?

[spdyjr]

I bought the bluetooth version, thinking I wouldn't have to hassle with the cable, but it only gives you the ability to use a Blackberry or similar unit and those units don't allow complete access to the GS911 functions. If you're planning on using it on the road, Bluetooth is nice to have.

 

I would do without the Bluetooth, had I done my homework, given the likelihood of it actually helping me. I don't carry a lot of tools with me when on the road, preferring to travel light and taking maximum advantage of this bike's great corner carving capability.

 

When it comes time for a TB synch or just resetting the service minder, it's a nice tool to have on hand.

[Ponch]

I thought there is a special tool for syncing the throttles?

 

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/R1200_TB_Sync.html

[Don_Eilenberger]

I bought the bluetooth version, thinking I wouldn't have to hassle with the cable, but it only gives you the ability to use a Blackberry or similar unit and those units don't allow complete access to the GS911 functions. If you're planning on using it on the road, Bluetooth is nice to have.

Not quite.

 

It also works fine with a Netbook with BlueToof.. I bought a $1 bleu-toof dongle thingie for my Netbook, and it's very nice working wireless. And since I carry the Netbook when I'm touring, the combo is nicely portable.

[Twisties]

I thought there is a special tool for syncing the throttles?

 

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/R1200_TB_Sync.html

 

You can use a twinmax as shown, or a homemade manometer (many threads here) to balance/synchronize the throttle bodies. However, the hexheads use stepper motors to control airflow. There have been some very complex threads here about this, and I am fuzzy about the details.

 

One thing I am sure about is that the GS-911 lets you stop the stepper motors at low rpm for doing the throttle body synch.

 

In the past, folk just did the synch at higher rpms. If I understand right, the stepper motors only function at low rpm.

 

Personally, I have tried with and without the GS-911 and I can't tell a difference. YMMV.

 

 

[Ponch]

My understanding is that the stepper motors only work for idle. The sync still has to be done for higher RPMS which the GS911 does not do, hence the article at JVB.

[spdyjr]

Yes, I use the Twinmax(nice tool) also and I have tried the TB synch with and without parking the "idle control devices". I notice some slight improvement at very low throttle openings with them parked. I've read some debate on this issue.

As I recall, JVB says it's not necessary to park them and he's the best authority I've read from regarding this subject. Who am I to disagree? But as long as the GS911 offers that feature, it can't hurt to use it.

 

I wouldn't surprise me if the improvement with the steppers parked is all in my head. I continuously find all kinds of completely useless and bogus stuff up there.

[Ponch]

Right, but you need the twinmax or it's analog to do the sync above idle. just calibrating the stepper motors isn't good enough.

[racer7]

Back to the original question about GS-911 bluetooth.

 

Like Don, I carry a netbook when traveling but USB it to the bike. (I carry a complete set of mini retractable cables that include ethernet, USB to I Phone, etc and even an Airport Express wireless router should I run into a hotel with only wired ethernet.)

 

You need to be aware that if you intend to use the bluetooth with a phone, the usual reason for purchasing the bluetooth

version, the phones needs to be fully compatible, not a crippled version like the IPhones. Read the info on the hexcode site to learn more about this. Blackberries and many other phones will work. My GS-911 is a bluetooth version IIRC but I never use bluetooth for it, having gotten rid of my corporate blackberry.

[Ponch]

I suppose if you carry a laptop it's a moot point. I always bring my Mac book, which runs linux and XP. Shouldn't be a problem then.

 

Back to the original question about GS-911 bluetooth.

 

Like Don, I carry a netbook when traveling but USB it to the bike. (I carry a complete set of mini retractable cables that include ethernet, USB to I Phone, etc and even an Airport Express wireless router should I run into a hotel with only wired ethernet.)

 

You need to be aware that if you intend to use the bluetooth with a phone, the usual reason for purchasing the bluetooth

version, the phones needs to be fully compatible, not a crippled version like the IPhones. Read the info on the hexcode site to learn more about this. Blackberries and many other phones will work. My GS-911 is a bluetooth version IIRC but I never use bluetooth for it, having gotten rid of my corporate blackberry.

[Don_Eilenberger]

Yes, I use the Twinmax(nice tool) also and I have tried the TB synch with and without parking the "idle control devices". I notice some slight improvement at very low throttle openings with them parked. I've read some debate on this issue.

As I recall, JVB says it's not necessary to park them and he's the best authority I've read from regarding this subject. Who am I to disagree? But as long as the GS911 offers that feature, it can't hurt to use it.

 

I wouldn't surprise me if the improvement with the steppers parked is all in my head. I continuously find all kinds of completely useless and bogus stuff up there.

I've done a bit of research on this - and have discussed it at length with Stephen (the GS-911 programmer/guru..) It's not a "parked mode" - it's a bit beyond this.

 

First - how things work:

 

The steppers lock together - work "in-step" once you move off idle. BMW's directions for their techs is - note the offset at idle (in mm probably since they use that type of gage, not a differential manometer like the TwinMax), and maintain that offset throughout the RPM range. The offset can be caused by things like a bad valve adjustment. IMHO - this is a pretty crappy way to do this, but it's probably faster then actually doing a good valve adjustment if someone just wants the TB's sync'd.

 

The GS-911 has a function to "zero" the steppers. The thought being that since these steppers do not have tone wheels (or the necessary complex circuitry) to monitor their positions, they can "drop steps" at times, and start running out of sync (but think they're in sync.) The Zero function basically seats the idle-bypass passage screws, and then tells the electronics that the steppers are at step zero (or whatever they use..)

 

Thing is - if you pay attention when starting your bike up - it appears the startup sequence (if allowed to complete it's cycle - where the instruments do their thing..) has the same zero steppers function. Which would make perfect sense. Put your finger on a stepper and turn the key to "ON" without starting the bike, you'll feel it happen. BZZZZZZZZZZZ - stop - BZZZ (goes to zero, registers zero, then opens for starting.)

 

All the GS-911 does for the zero function is triggers a bit on the ECU, that performs the function. It's my belief (and Stephen seems to be of the same mind) that BMW already does this IF you let the startup sequence complete (it takes about 5 seconds to complete..)

 

Anyway - at idle - the ECU does run the steppers out-of-sync, apparently to try to smooth the idle as best they can (you can watch this on the GS-911), but above idle (starting at about 1,100 RPM) - the steppers go into sync'd mode.

 

Long story short: Since throttle-body-balance is done ABOVE idle - there is no advantage to disconnecting the steppers and no need to. The GS-911 also has a function to lock the steppers, but I don't believe this is at all critical, or particularly useful in doing a TB sync. In my experience - if I get the valve adjustment correct, TBS is dead-nutz perfect. The hexheads don't seem to wander out of adjustment like earlier boxers do.. in 44k miles - my TBS has remained the same. Perfect.

[Ponch]

So these steppers are like an IAC on a car?

[Nesbocaj]

I am going to spring for the GS-911 diagnostic tool and planned on buying the USB version which is $50.00 cheaper than the Bluetooth model. Any functionality lost with the USB version?

 

Or the inverse: is any functionality lost with the BT version? The guy using the dongle for his computer has the right (by my needs) idea to BT the unit to a BTed computer, look ma, no wires!

[Ponch]

I am going to spring for the GS-911 diagnostic tool and planned on buying the USB version which is $50.00 cheaper than the Bluetooth model. Any functionality lost with the USB version?

 

Or the inverse: is any functionality lost with the BT version? The guy using the dongle for his computer has the right (by my needs) idea to BT the unit to a BTed computer, look ma, no wires!

 

Is it worth $50? BT is slow anyway. Of course you could use either if you had BT, but honestly, the chipset doesn't cost that much. May be BT should be standard then?

[Heck]

I use the GS-911 with bluetooth, connect to my netbook via bluetooth, or my laptop via bluetooth, getting all the software functions available with both. Since I have an Iphone, I don't go there.

BT is plenty fast enough to reproduce all the realtime sensor information given and like others have posted, is nice to not have to wire it up to a netbook, lessening the chance of bumping a cable etc causing the netbook to fall to its demise.

Only thing I have noticed is that there is a little bit of PIA pairing up the two at first and making sure the GS911 software is looking at the correct virtual COM port. Once paired, it works extremely well. This may be my fault and the way I have the Bluetooth configured on my netbook. Using XP OS on both laptop and netbook cuz I don't care for Windows 7 and downright despise Vista. This is a personal preferance that I'm entitiled to.

Is it worth the extra 50 bux ?? Well it was for me.. YMMV.

I was told when I bought the 911 that the bluetooth feature wouldn't work in the full version of the software, only in the mobile version.. Never had a problem making it work... Good luck- you'll like the device.

[Ponch]

I use the GS-911 with bluetooth, connect to my netbook via bluetooth, or my laptop via bluetooth, getting all the software functions available with both. Since I have an Iphone, I don't go there.

BT is plenty fast enough to reproduce all the realtime sensor information given and like others have posted, is nice to not have to wire it up to a netbook, lessening the chance of bumping a cable etc causing the netbook to fall to its demise.

Only thing I have noticed is that there is a little bit of PIA pairing up the two at first and making sure the GS911 software is looking at the correct virtual COM port. Once paired, it works extremely well. This may be my fault and the way I have the Bluetooth configured on my netbook. Using XP OS on both laptop and netbook cuz I don't care for Windows 7 and downright despise Vista. This is a personal preferance that I'm entitiled to.

Is it worth the extra 50 bux ?? Well it was for me.. YMMV.

I was told when I bought the 911 that the bluetooth feature wouldn't work in the full version of the software, only in the mobile version.. Never had a problem making it work... Good luck- you'll like the device.

 

I would use XP in vmware. I have had good luck with USB devices, so I am sure that would work fine. I've never used BT with it though. Whatever the case, I probably will buy one this year. I asked the BMWOA local group if anyone had one, and I didn't get a response. I would be willing to split one with someone, but I have a feeling I will be owning one of my own.

[Don_Eilenberger]

So these steppers are like an IAC on a car?

Assuming by IAC you mean idle-air-control..

 

Sorta. Many cars don't use steppers - they use a vane type bypass device with a small DC motor with about a 180 degree range of movement. The motor is used as part of a bridge circuit linked to an idle speed output.

 

If the speed goes down, the motor moves one way opening the bypass port moving against a spring that tries to close the port. If idle goes up - less current input to the motor results in the spring closing the port more slowing it down.

 

Steppers are a bit more sophisticated, and perhaps a bit more reliable.. they are also capable of being calibrated electronically.

[Don_Eilenberger]

Or the inverse: is any functionality lost with the BT version? The guy using the dongle for his computer has the right (by my needs) idea to BT the unit to a BTed computer, look ma, no wires!

No functionality lost. Just LOTS more convienent to have the Netbook wirelessly on a bench next to the bike, rather then tied to the bike by a USB cable I'm sure to trip over and pull the Netbook off the bike.

[wbrissette]

You need to be aware that if you intend to use the bluetooth with a phone, the usual reason for purchasing the bluetooth

version, the phones needs to be fully compatible, not a crippled version like the IPhones.

 

Stephen and I have had some debates about this (both publicly and privately). The iPhone's bluetooth is NOT crippled. Apple has gone to the extreme however, and requires vendors to install an ID chip, and register that chip with Apple, in their product. Stephen refuses to do, thus the GS-911 won't work with the iPhone currently. If a company wanted to have an iPhone bluetooth device it certainly can be done (and is being done), but some feel, and rightly so, that Apple is going a bit overboard with their requirements.

 

The bottom line is you will need some other type of phone for bluetooth. I would recommend either Nokia or Ericsson since both have great bluetooth support and you can usually pick up an older unit for next to nothing used.

 

Wayne

 

 

[Steve Kolenda]

Don,

 

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but you mention Netbook as the Bluetooth interface I'm assuming any laptop will work with the Bluetooth dongle.

[markgoodrich]

Interesting thread, with go info, but I have to ask: what, exactly, do you DO with the 911 when you're traveling??? Maybe it's me...most of my trips are under three weeks, and usually no more than 4,000 miles, between service intervals.

 

I realize the 911 has all sorts of functions, but in my limited experience (I only have about 58,000 miles on my RT) nothing needs doing between service intervals. I do carry a fuel pump controller jumper, and some basic tools, but the worst things I've had to deal with are blown headlamp bulbs, and a flat tire.

 

I don't mean this comment to have a cynical or condescending tone...hard to get nuance into typing.

[Ponch]

Don,

 

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but you mention Netbook as the Bluetooth interface I'm assuming any laptop will work with the Bluetooth dongle.

 

he proof is in the pudding. You have to try it. If it doesn't work, figure out why. I know with Apple laptops, there are work arounds to the vendor ID issue. YMMV. I'd rather use an ipad. Smaller than a laptop but easier to read than a stinking phone.

[Ken H.]

I have to ask: what, exactly, do you DO with the 911 when you're traveling???

The primary purpose of the GS-911 is not to aid in tune ups (although it has some functions for that), its primary function is to read out stored trouble codes. Possibly the one that ground your trip to a halt.

 

It’s just like most any other tool, you don’t need it until you do. It’s all about odds right? Odd are you never will need any tools of any type (e.g. FPC jumper) when traveling. But should you loose, having a GS-911 is just one more trick in your bag that might help get you underway again.

[racer7]

Mark,

The current bikes are built pretty much like any modern car meaning you need a very complete understanding of operating principles, good electrical/electronic troubleshooting skills and a VOM at a minimum to do any "on the road" troubleshooting. The GS-911 does 2 things to help. First, its diagnostic capabilities offset the lack of knowledge by most. Second, it greatly speeds the troubleshooting process.

 

Its not a complete magic bullet - even with one you still need some basic understanding to supplement it.

 

For example, when my fpc failed, the GS-911 with no wasted time showed me that the bike had quit running because there was no power to the fuel pump. (Confirmed what I heard- that it didn't run when the key was turned and eliminated the need for a VOM confirmation). This meant I only had to pull the one panel over the pump to get at the area and see what was happening and the known history of crappy fpc's (confirmed by the corrosion on mine) made it clear what had happened.

But there are a bunch of other electrical things that could stop a bike and the GS-911 is the fast way to find them or narrow down possibilties.

[SageRider]

Interesting thread, with go info, but I have to ask: what, exactly, do you DO with the 911 when you're traveling??? Maybe it's me...most of my trips are under three weeks, and usually no more than 4,000 miles, between service intervals.

 

I realize the 911 has all sorts of functions, but in my limited experience (I only have about 58,000 miles on my RT) nothing needs doing between service intervals. I do carry a fuel pump controller jumper, and some basic tools, but the worst things I've had to deal with are blown headlamp bulbs, and a flat tire.

 

I don't mean this comment to have a cynical or condescending tone...hard to get nuance into typing.

Leaving the Unrally in John Day, my bike wouldn't start.

The GS-911 I had with me reported a "final stage fuel pump fault".

Pulled off the outer left tupperware, and found the fuel pump connector was not properly seated.

(This was apparently my fault as I had serviced the bike before making the trip, but I had about 1K trouble free miles since that service.

I was on an extremely rough road the day before the no start, but, again, no symptoms exhibited that would have given me a clue where to look.)

The GS-911 results allowed immediate concentration on the problem area enabling a fix which required less than 5 minutes.

While I don't know how long it would have been until I discovered the issue without the GS-911, I do know it would have been considerably longer...

 

[Don_Eilenberger]

Don,

 

Please excuse my lack of knowledge but you mention Netbook as the Bluetooth interface I'm assuming any laptop will work with the Bluetooth dongle.

 

Any laptop with a USB-2 port should work. "Netbook" isn't a brand, it's a type of computer (think mini-laptop.) The dongle came with a software driver, but I don't believe the version of windows I had needed it - (XP - the final release..)

[Don_Eilenberger]

Interesting thread, with go info, but I have to ask: what, exactly, do you DO with the 911 when you're traveling???

 

I carry it to invoke Eilenberger's Law of Spares (which also covers tools) - the law is at http://www.eilenberger.net/laws.htm

 

"Law#2 - Parts: You never need the part you have. (and the sublaw is - the further you are from the part you need is directly proportional to the probable need for the part)

 

Replace "Parts" with "Tools".. it's the same deal.

 

[DiverRay]

Steve,

That is correct. Some laptops have bluetooth built in, so you don't even need a dongle!

[Steve Kolenda]

Thanks to all for your input. Bluetooth version ordered.

[ccii42104]

I just saw this post! Good call on the BT option. i have used mine for two years now on 4 different BMWs. I have a BT capable laptop and it is a dream when syncing! Leave the laptop on the work bench where it is safe!

[spdyjr]

Glad to hear about success in using Bluetooth on a PC. I had trouble making it work misinterpreted what I read about it on the Hexcode website. I was using an old Aspire Netbook with USB bluetooth adapter.

 

I use a Macbook now (with Fusion and built in bluetooth). Anybody have any experience with that setup that has any advice before I try it?

[I812]

I would like to go in on one with a member in the Chicago area. Seems like a "must have" tool.

[Ponch]

I would like to go in on one with a member in the Chicago area. Seems like a "must have" tool.

 

I questioned the local chapter about the same thing and no one responded. Oh well. I guess I have to buy it by myself.

[wbrissette]

I use a Macbook now (with Fusion and built in bluetooth). Anybody have any experience with that setup that has any advice before I try it?

 

It works fine. Just make sure you have the latest GS-911 software.

 

Wayne