Considering a return to BMW

[scottie_boy]

Hello to everyone here. As you can see by my join date, I'm not a new member however I haven't posted in a very long time since I got rid of my old RT. I had a '04 RT that I loved riding as long as it worked properly which was rare. So I said goodbye and purchased a '07 Suzuki V-Strom which has so far been more reliable but not as refined as the Beemer.

 

However, lately I've found my self looking at Beemers again. Actually, this last Saturday I test rode an RT and a GS. They were different but I really liked them both.

 

My question is would you buy another BMW or recommend it to a friend? The last thing I'm trying to do is "stir the pot", I just want some honest feedback from people who own the current generation of Hex and Cam Heads. Has the quality improved? There was something about that old RT that spoke to me but I had so many issues with it that I felt that I had to say goodbye.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Motodan]

"Improved" is a tough word to define in this application. Still got a long way to go, but yes, I guess you could say, in general, improved. Better MPG than prior model, lighter weight, I think better stock seat, more tech applications (for some that isn't an improvement), no surging (as opposed to 2003 and old models) and a number of individual likes for many. However, one still wonders about their final drive, EWS (if you didn't do the recall) and bad fuel strips. And of course worry, especially "in-this-economy", will my dealer, or at least a dealer within a day's ride, remain solvent?

 

So, if you're willing to pony up to the shop and pay a premium price, we can get you on the bike you desire. However, remember, "improved" is in the mind of the holder and beholder. Be prepared to accept the fact that your premium expenditure may reward you in the form of status, rather than absolute mechanical reliability.

 

Good luck in your choices.

[Twisties]

I will look long and hard before making my next bike purchase. BMW will need to present a clear winner. Any ties go to the challenger.

[Bob D.]

This is what I tell folks about my 2005 BMW r1200rt experience.

 

The gas gage when it works will start flashing a bright yellow light telling you your are out of gas when you still have over a gallon left. If you like to launch the bike hard from stoplights it won’t be long before you’ll be changing the clutch. My dealer would not guarantee labor unless he replaced the whole clutch assembly @ about $1500. The shocks will be toast by 20,000 miles. The engine does not make any meaningful power until 3000 RPM, so it’s a pig off the line. An up hill start two-up will have you will smelling the clutch. Takes about 12,000 miles before it starts getting broken in. And I strongly recommend having insurance covering breakdowns during long road trips.

 

But the more miles I put on it the more I enjoy putting miles on it. I just love the way the bike works and feels under me. I love making good time on back roads for over 300 mile straight I just have to ignore the dam yellow flashing light for the last 50 miles or so. I drive people I ride with nuts because I ride so quickly and never want to stop for a rest, I just want to ride. I always get a kick after running a poor stretch road (We have lots of bad road in Maine) and listen to other bikers bitch about how bad it was. The Beemer has the best suspension of any bike I have tried for eating up bad road. (I have replaced the stock ESA shocks with Works Performance who put the ESA parts on the new shocks. The stock shocks started going south at around 15,000 miles)

 

There is no bike I can think of that suits the way I like to ride better than this bike. And at 45,000 miles I still enjoy it more every time I get on it. Can't say that about any other bike I have owned.

 

I like doing my own maintenance and the bike is fairly easy to work on. I would have liked to replaced the clutch myself, but I needed the bike for a trip and didn’t think I had the time to do it myself.

 

Yup I can see that once you get BMW motorcycles in you blood you might never be able to able to get it out of your system. My advice to you, keep the Vstorm and by a BMW too.

 

 

 

[KDeline]

From 1982 till the summer of 2007 I would arrogantly ride and defend BMW to no end. In my head no other motorcycle could come close to the reliability and simplicity.

 

Now.......I don't.

[scottie_boy]

Once again, the last thing I was trying to do was start a big debate. I just wanted to get some unbiased opinions before I fork over fifteen to twenty thousand dollars on my next bike.

 

I have to say that so far none of the comments toward BMW have been very favorable. Good or bad, I wanted honest feedback.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[bobbybob]

Scottie, hopefully you will also hear from some of the majority of owners who have experienced no major issues. I am one of those, so far. Yes, the shocks are toast early but good aftermarket shocks make it better than new again. Most folks have never had a final drive problem. The engine just keeps going and going..... The ergos are 2nd to none.

 

Are Beemers as trouble-free as Japanese bikes? Probably not, but sometimes the fun factor outweighs the repair factor. This is one of those times.

[Roadwolf]

Scottie,

 

As was stated previously... most BMW owners that I know are satisfied with the ownership experience. The ones that do not have problems are rarely ever shouting from the mountain top that their bike is trouble free. It is the ones that have problems (real or perceived) that make the most noise. Are BMWs more or less reliable than other brands? Depends on what you are comparing it to. There are cheaper to buy and own/maintain bikes out there, but you get what you pay for at times. The features and technology on BMWs are just about second to none. One can make the argument that all those gizmos complicate things and create the opportunity for something that should be simple to go wrong. I think that for the most part and for most people, the bikes just work as advertised. I know that I have enjoyed my three RTs over the last 10 years. I have also owned a Honda ST1300, and while nice, it had some problems that brought me back to BMW.

 

In the end, only you can know for sure what you want out of your bike. Try what is out there and do your research (and try not to let the anti-BMW distortion field put you off to these bikes... give em a try and see what you think).

 

BTW, my current RT has over 54,000 miles and is still humming along.

[CoarsegoldKid]

My '05 RT is like the every ready bunny. It goes and goes and goes. I do the scheduled maintenance and tire changes. It now has 70K miles. One on road problem fixed on BMWs dime including the tow. All modern touring bikes should be this way. What will I get to replace it in another 7-10 years? I don't think about it. I just ride the thing.

[Indy Dave]

Love my 05 RT and would not consider replacing it with another brand - although I've owned Kawasaki, Yamaha and Honda's in the past. Not that other brand are junk, etc. I've enjoyed the RT more then the others and while I find some other bikes interesting, I would not replace my RT with any of them, although it's possible I'll supplement one day with a smaller bike. Or a GS

[tsp]

I just returned to BMW this year with the purchase of a 2010 R1200RT. Not sure it will be as reliable as my recent Hondas but the RT just feels so much better. For example, I use it for little trips and errands whereas I would not do that with my last Honda. MHO: Motorcycles should not be watercooled but air cooling is not good enough.. the newer R BMWs are just perfect using oil/air cooling.

 

The RT is the best bike I've ever owned. The good: I love the way it handles, lights, transmission (but 1st is too tall), mileage, gadgets that come stock, finish on paint & metal, gauges are awesome compared to the older BMWs, ESA (revised in 2010), boxer engine, no engine heat compared to ST1300, 300 mile range, boxer engine, bags are some of the best imho, low cog (especially compared to the STs and CBX!), options offered on the bike, and did I mention the classic boxer engine? And it's very smooth from about 50 to about 80 mph.

 

The bad: expensive options, 1st gear is rather tall, the ST1300 is better for cruising at over 90 MPH (seldom happens) but for 50 to 80 mph the RT is hard to beat, way too few dealers - mine is about 270 miles away. You get what you pay for but... my bike was a little over $21,000 without the radio! You can buy used and save a lot.

 

Good luck. I'm very happy with my RT. Not broken in yet - only has 9,000 miles.

tsp

2010 R1200RT

2003 ST1300ABS

1996 ST1100

1982 R800RT

1982 Honda CBX

1976 R75/6

1973 CB500/Four

1953 Cushman Highlander

 

[Hall Vince]

I ran a R1200ST I bought used at 3000 mls to 33,000 miles, self serviced to schedule. Never let me down.

 

The current R12RT again bought used with 5000 mls on is now on 35,000 or so and has never left me standing at the side of the road with phone in hand.

To be fair I did have to get the large bearing replaced in the FD, but it was no drama and with the help of my dealer actualy turned out to be a pleasant experiance. Oh and warranty covered that.

I can't think of another bike I would replace it with, except another RT12.

hth

\v/

[Ponch]

Love my 05 RT and would not consider replacing it with another brand - although I've owned Kawasaki, Yamaha and Honda's in the past. Not that other brand are junk, etc. I've enjoyed the RT more then the others and while I find some other bikes interesting, I would not replace my RT with any of them, although it's possible I'll supplement one day with a smaller bike. Or a GS

 

I found a new 2009 for 17,900+tax and he threw in the 49L topcase. It has everything but ASC,TPM and radio. It's a great bike. I would say cruising 50-80 underrating it. Mine wants to do 110 all day.

 

 

[plext]

My experience lies only with K bikes, but I do feel is possibly relevant here.

 

My first BMW was a 2005 K1200S, it:

Ate and spat out the gearbox.

Destroyed a set of front rotors in under 2000km.

Destroyed another set in less than another 800.

Got hungry again and ate another box.

ESA failure, required new rear shock then new control unit as the old one declined to talk to the new shock.

Yet another gearbox.

One more set of rotors for good measure.

 

All in 18 months / 30 000km

 

At this point, I went away disgusted and swore never to touch a BMW again, but the lure of the K1300S got to me and I made the fatal error of test riding one...

 

The summation of that is:

18 months / 70 000km and not a single issue. Nothing.

 

Now onto my second one which touch wood appears as solid.

Based on all this and the stories I've seen around, I have a theory that they dropped the ball on QA for a few years, but it would seem that they have rectified this at least to some degree now.

 

As further evidence of this I would quote the S1000RR, complete departure for the manufacturer and yet there have been very few horror stories around this machine. That just doesn't happen without decent quality control process.

 

All purchases are somewhat of a dice roll, I do honestly believe however that the odds with BMW are a lot better than they were just a very few years ago.

[Indy Dave]

Love my 05 RT and would not consider replacing it with another brand - although I've owned Kawasaki, Yamaha and Honda's in the past. Not that other brand are junk, etc. I've enjoyed the RT more then the others and while I find some other bikes interesting, I would not replace my RT with any of them, although it's possible I'll supplement one day with a smaller bike. Or a GS

 

Opps - I have an '06 RT. I guess not riding for the last 6 weeks due to my hip replacement has made me a little (more) foggy upstairs.

[Survived-til-now]

I switched from a VFR to BMW's and my much loved VFR's parting shot was a £1500 bill for the geared camshaft (in 2000 that was a lot more than it is today)...... which is by way of saying that all makes have their problems.

 

I guess like you I suffered from a few expensive repairs on my 1150RT but apart from a few niggles I enjoyed riding the bike and IMO it was the best bike for the job of a 120 mile return commute motorway /city riding mixed with the weekly country roads twisties when I took the pretty route home on a friday - and the latter set me up nicely for the weekend.

 

Then I read about the 1200 RT coming out in early 2005. All my niggles had been addressed and so I rang the dealer and ordered one of the first on the road - and I have not been disappointed. So YES it definitely had been improved from the 1150RT. After an extended "rest" due to the recession over here I am due to start a new job in the new year - and I can't wait to get back on the BMW for the commute to work. The only cloud on the horizon at the moment is that we are due more snow but I guess I can wait a bit longer before the bike and I stop messing about and get down to the real job the bike does better than IMHO any other - getting me to and from work through congested traffic in any weather (except ice/snow

[Matts_12GS]

... although it's possible I'll supplement one day with a smaller bike. Or a GS

 

Get both

[AllenW]

If I may ask a couple of questions on posted comments...

 

Geared to tall?

For heavy riders is this a problem, or just a little clutch slippage needed?

Can tranny gear be changed?

 

Also are most of the problems that seem to occur repairable with at least basic repair skills by the owner?

 

Sorry if I'm stepping on the OP thread, but it seemed relevant to his post...I hope

 

Al

[Don_Eilenberger]

Couldn't be happier with my '07 R1200R. 44k miles, and only one small repair (which I did myself - $0 cost) has been needed. A few service campaigns, the brake line recalls - but no on the road problems, it has always gotten me home just fine.

 

If it was to blow up tomorrow, or get stolen, or whatever - I'd be heading to the dealer trying to buy one of the new 2011's.

[Twisties]

The RT's have a "tall" first gear. I believe it tops out at 53 mph. It takes some getting used to for purposes of starting from a stop, and is a significant issue in low speed riding. I have had issues in traffic jams, parking lots, ridiculous military speed limits (5 mph) road construction (pilot car too slow). Anything below about 12-13 mph and you have to start working the clutch, coasting, etc.

 

GS's have lower gearing, but I'm not sure if the problem is completely solved.

 

 

[Deek]

Scottie, hopefully you will also hear from some of the majority of owners who have experienced no major issues. I am one of those, so far. Yes, the shocks are toast early but good aftermarket shocks make it better than new again. Most folks have never had a final drive problem. The engine just keeps going and going..... The ergos are 2nd to none.

 

Are Beemers as trouble-free as Japanese bikes? Probably not, but sometimes the fun factor outweighs the repair factor. This is one of those times.

 

My two RTs have been trouble free, about the same as the non_Beemers I've had. You are 100% correct on the ergos!

 

People reading this forum need to remember that those who post USUALLY are posting because something has gone wrong....the rest of us don't spend our time posting that all is well......

[Hall Vince]

If I may ask a couple of questions on posted comments...

 

Geared to tall?

For heavy riders is this a problem, or just a little clutch slippage needed?

Can tranny gear be changed?

 

Also are most of the problems that seem to occur repairable with at least basic repair skills by the owner?

 

Sorry if I'm stepping on the OP thread, but it seemed relevant to his post...I hope

 

Al

The RT's have a "tall" first gear. I believe it tops out at 53 mph. It takes some getting used to for purposes of starting from a stop, and is a significant issue in low speed riding. I have had issues in traffic jams, parking lots, ridiculous military speed limits (5 mph) road construction (pilot car too slow). Anything below about 12-13 mph and you have to start working the clutch, coasting, etc.

 

GS's have lower gearing, but I'm not sure if the problem is completely solved.

 

 

Another point of view.

I have no problems with the gearing on the RT. Fully loaded I rode some tight hairpin/switchback bends in the Alps this year without slipping the clutch.

IMO it's not a stopper towards buying the bike.

\v/

[Twisties]

If I may ask a couple of questions on posted comments...

 

Geared to tall?

For heavy riders is this a problem, or just a little clutch slippage needed?

Can tranny gear be changed?

 

Also are most of the problems that seem to occur repairable with at least basic repair skills by the owner?

 

Sorry if I'm stepping on the OP thread, but it seemed relevant to his post...I hope

 

Al

The RT's have a "tall" first gear. I believe it tops out at 53 mph. It takes some getting used to for purposes of starting from a stop, and is a significant issue in low speed riding. I have had issues in traffic jams, parking lots, ridiculous military speed limits (5 mph) road construction (pilot car too slow). Anything below about 12-13 mph and you have to start working the clutch, coasting, etc.

 

GS's have lower gearing, but I'm not sure if the problem is completely solved.

 

 

Another point of view.

I have no problems with the gearing on the RT. Fully loaded I rode some tight hairpin/switchback bends in the Alps this year without slipping the clutch.

IMO it's not a stopper towards buying the bike.

\v/

 

I don't have issues with it on open road, however twisty.

 

In the UK I believe you can "filter" or as we say, split lanes. In 49 of the 50 States around here you can not, and this probably accounts for much of different experience.

 

I don't consider it a stopper at all, just answering the fellow's question. No bike is perfect.

[scottie_boy]

People reading this forum need to remember that those who post USUALLY are posting because something has gone wrong....the rest of us don't spend our time posting that all is well......

 

You're correct in saying, people normally only post when things go wrong not when things go right. Which is why I asked this question.

 

I asked the same basic question at the forum for a different bike that I am also considering to purchase. One of the senior members there crucified me for getting asking such a stupid question and acused me of only wanting to stir the sh*& pot.

 

Once again, thanks to everyone for their insight and non-judgemental attitudes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobbybob]

I asked the same basic question at the forum for a different bike that I am also considering to purchase. One of the senior members there crucified me for getting asking such a stupid question and acused me of only wanting to stir the sh*& pot.

 

Well heck, thats just another good reason to go with a bimmer. We got a nice place to visit here and didn't crucify ya!

 

Course it could happen.....

[Bullett]

'07 RT here. . . I totally love this bike. I had my heated grips overdraw the canbus during the first year which caused the grips to shut down. Of course that only happened when I wanted/needed to use the heat, so It took the dealer (and supposedly BMWNA) a while to figure out the problem. Eventually, grips were replaced under warranty.

 

At about 43K, I had a leaky fork seal which I paid to repair. I believe the bike has had three recalls. Most of the downtime with my RT was related to ordering aftermarket lowered shocks, then having the side and center stands modified.

 

 

[Deek]

"....I asked the same basic question at the forum for a different bike that I am also considering to purchase..."

 

Smart. I did the same thing on the bikes I'd been checking out for a possible purchase. Every make and model has something that a percentage of the owners will mention. Most replies are really minor; very few are major (or the bike won't be around, would it?).

 

Hard to believe someone would take offense to asking such a basic question.....must have been a Harley forum, eh?

[ScottT]

My question is would you buy another BMW or recommend it to a friend? The last thing I'm trying to do is "stir the pot", I just want some honest feedback from people who own the current generation of Hex and Cam Heads. Has the quality improved?

 

I've got a very early 2005 RT with about 98 thousand miles and I've had just one issue. The horn. It would cut out if pressed for more than a second or so. The computer must have thought there was too much current so it would shut it off. I fixed this myself but taking one horn off of Canbus and wiring it directly to the battery with an inline fuse. That's it. Without question this has been the most trouble free Beemer I've ever owned. Here's what I have owned:

 

1977 R100/7

1984 R100RS

1985 K100RS

1994 R1100RS

1998 R1100RS

2002 R1150RS

2005 R1200RT

 

I would have to say that the quality of my RT is by far the best of the bikes I've owned. The paint has weathered the age and miles remarkably well as has the driveline and engine surfaces. The wheels have done terrific too. It is not uncommon for folks to comment on how pretty my "brand new" bike is when I manage to clean it up which isn't very often.

 

Anyway, that has been my experience. I love my RT more than ever with 98k and have no problem recommending one to other riders. However, I don't recommend without adding that getting a new BMW or getting any new bike does not come without risk. It's a crapshoot when you get any new vehicle. Chances are you'll get a good machine that will give you nothing but trouble free miles. But, for a small percentage of folks there are bikes with problems and an even smaller percentage you can call lemons. Best of luck with your decision whatever it may be.

 

Scott T

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevent]

I did the same thing, I seem to bounce between Hinkley Triumphs Harley-Davidson and BMW. To be honest I haven't had any real problems with any of them. Buy whatever floats your boat. My '09 GS is the Bees Knees right now, maybe i'll trade it in a few years for a Trumpy'. they"re supposed to be coming out with a 1400 Trophy in 2012......

[EffBee]

A motorcycle is not a necessity (except to lane split in CA). Cars can get mileage as good or better than many bikes, plus they have utility on their side. Therefore, a motorcycle is a passion, an EMOTIONAL want that you either satisfy or ignore. In some ways, it's not unlike having a spouse.

 

Which spouse is truly perfect? None of them(us) are. But there's something about the one you're with that simply rings truer, feels better, warms more tenderly, communicates better, and is better at the kind of intimacy (focusing on the nonsexual, here) we individually desire. We keep that one.

 

For some, that means a Stepford Bike. Reliable to a fault. Predictable. Exactly the same measure of everything, every time. YOU have to decide which bikes are Stepford Bikes and whether a relationship with one will meet the emotional need in you that's calling you toward motorcycling.

 

Obviously, there are bikes that vary in degrees from the Stepford Bike. Some don't get you noticed when they're on your arm. Some are wildly passionate for 30 minutes before your body starts to actually hurt. Some are temperamental, but there's something about how they look and feel that you can't escape. And some have varying degrees of all of the above. Each is different. I could go on with the analogies, but you get the picture.

 

How much of what do you want, and how much of what are you willing to put up with in order to get what you want?

 

BMW's are an acquired taste. They don't jump out at you like some loud, chromed, rolling pinkie ring. They don't explode from a stoplight (OK, maybe the S1000RR). Apart from groups like this, they have no social caché. But they do touch us, for better or worse.

 

My last 1100RT was my best friend on the road. I trusted that bike with my pleasure and happiness, and I was never let down in 100,000 miles. Had I been, I would have forgiven, fixed, and worked on reconnecting. My current 1100RT (yeah, got a soft spot for them) is working on doing the same things for me. I'm sure if it ever fails I'll have anger, disappointment, thoughts of switching to the security, simplicity and barrenness of Stepforddom. But that, too, shall pass.

 

I left BMW between RT's. I tried the willing, but unfulfilling experience offered by psuedo mechanical perfection. Twice. One was a bit of fun. The other was capable of manufacturing passion, but not expressing it. Neither reaches me and the emotions that are motorcycling to me, like the RT does. Of course, YMMV. You marry the one that makes your heart race, makes you feel she WANTS to be with you, makes you feel she wants you to be with her. And fortunately in motorcycling, as in life, that's different for each of us.

 

Ask all the questions you want. But ultimately, the answer lies within you.

[tallman]

[baggerchris]

Having owned a R1100Rt and now owning a 06 F650GS, I would have no trouble recommending BMW to anyone.

 

The RT was a little too wide across her beam for me and the F650 single is perfect but she could use tubeless tires and 20 more HP.

 

Soooooooo, my next bike will be the F650 GS twin.

 

I also will recommmend H.D., having had nothing but good luck with my current softail and the five before him.

 

 

[cali_beemer]

I went to a 2007 Vstrom 650 ABS for the exact reasons as the OP. However, for the exact same reason he is considering going back to a BMW, so did I. I just went back to a 2004 R1150Rt about 3 weeks ago. Riding the RT is so much better than the Vstrom. If I had the money I would have bought another 1200RT. Its a much better bike IMO.

[YARBI]

:clap:I have a 2006 RT with about 30,000 perfect miles. Took it to Alaska this year. Couldn't be happier with this bike and it has been the most reliable bike I have every owned. I do all my own service, which is easy, and just ride with a big smile on my face.

[peterbulgar]

This has been an interesting discussion for me because I just purchased a used '08 DL650 for use on an Alaska trip next summer. My '04 BMW R1150RA, which I kept, was purchased new in 2003 and outfitted with a windscreen and BMW luggage rack and system cases. I take a long (7000 mile) trip every summer, as well as weekend rides and commuting, so the BMW now has 97k miles. It has the original clutch, original rear drive, and has been dead reliable except for one heated grip (replaced under warranty) and a stick coil.

 

I love the R but with that many miles on the bike there are too many possible expensive problems that could crop up at any time, and I don't want to be looking for an ABS conroller in the middle of British Columbia. I didn't want to spend 20 large for a new RT, and besides I'm more of a minimalist rider. (Two of my riding partners have RTs and they love them, even though one had his rear drive go out in Whitehorse, YT.) The new R has a 4.6 gallon tank, and, even with the bikes excellent gas mileage, that isn't enough range. I considered the F650GS, but the small tank was a worry. The DL650 is very comparable to the F650GS, but at 2/3 the price, it has a larger tank, and there are a lot more Suzuki dealers than BMW dealers. So far I'm happy with my choice - we'll see how I feel this time next year.

peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA, Kawasaki, Suzuki

[kmac]

TM i cant believe they let a car and a bike occupy the same track space at Nuerbergring.

 

I havent seen that in ALOT of years in the USA....since lawsuits have become a way of life in America.