Clutch update

[NonComp]

I'm not sure that I would want to be the guinea pig on those RB Racing clutches (assuming that you could get one). If they are for drag racing, won't they be grabby and low-mileage?

[kmac]

I would prefer grabby to slipping just to take off from a light.

 

I have to take off sooooo slowly in first gear or it just starts the slipping process. Once it is rolling and i shift into second it sticks ok as long as i let the clutch out before i have roll on the throttle {as we have already discussed}...so a grabby clutch would please me just fine.

 

If i can get them to send me one i will try it for sure especially at 360 bucks for a kit.

[Jim Moore]

I would prefer grabby to slipping just to take off from a light.

 

I have to take off sooooo slowly in first gear or it just starts the slipping process. Once it is rolling and i shift into second it sticks ok as long as i let the clutch out before i have roll on the throttle {as we have already discussed}...so a grabby clutch would please me just fine.

Just so we're clear, there is definitely something wrong with your clutch. That ain't how it's supposed to work.

[AndyS]

Just so we're clear, there is definitely something wrong with your clutch. That ain't how it's supposed to work.

 

+1

 

also for NonComp, RBRacing say on their web site that they do a selection of plates, circular, 6 web, 4 web and 3 web clutch plates depending on the application. However, your comment on not wanting to be a guinea pig is valid because I have not heard of anyone who has a/ used them, or b/. done any mileage on them.

 

If any of our readers have got one let us know how you getting on with it. I know Paul Mihalka has been waiting to get one for some time now, so in itself that doesn't look too encouraging.

 

Andy

[BrianM]

You could try on of these.

 

http://www.wunderlichamerica.com/motorcycle/R1100RT/8510032.html

[ShovelStrokeEd]

FWIW, I ran one of the RB clutches, they don't make them but source them in Germany, I think. It was a 3 petal design with ceramic friction material. Reason I needed it was the turbo, also from RB Racing, on my K100RS. The clutch was a tad grabby in city traffic so you had to slip it a bit to get rolling. It would take full throttle full boost starts with no slip (other than rear tire) and never gave me a moment of trouble in the 20K miles I had on the combination. I would expect similar on a boxer motor.

[Paul Mihalka]

I wanted their RSR Street 360 disk, not so much for a different friction material, but that disk is a spring hub design that I hope would improve the durability of the clutch splines. To me the bad design of the boxer clutch spline connection is the clutch's major defect.

[NonComp]

Personally, I'd stick with OEM unless you are looking at a special application. It's a lot of work/expense to change out the clutch and it could affect resale value if you don't expect to keep the bike forever.

 

Don't you need to change out the entire clutch assembly? The RB kits does not include the front and back plates? From what I've read, you need to change out the entire assembly because the plates wear and will cause asymetrical wear on the new friction plate. So you need to factor that into the cost.

[AndyS]

To me the bad design of the boxer clutch spline connection is the clutch's major defect.

 

I'm with you on that. I really believe that if the clutch had a floating centre - as on the RBR clutch plate - it would pretty much alleviate the input spline problems seen on some mis-aligned gearboxes.

see http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bmw_clutches.html

half way down - particularly the RSR Street 360 or the RSR Turbo Six Paw.

 

Andy

[NonComp]

If you scroll right down to the bottom of the RB Racing clutch page, you will see an interesting discussion on 1100 springs. They suggested putting an 1150 GS spring in for a bit more bite. They also recommend sticking with the stock springs.

[Paul Mihalka]

To me the bad design of the boxer clutch spline connection is the clutch's major defect.

 

I'm with you on that. I really believe that if the clutch had a floating centre - as on the RBR clutch plate - it would pretty much alleviate the input spline problems seen on some mis-aligned gearboxes.

see http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bmw_clutches.html

half way down - particularly the RSR Street 360 or the RSR Turbo Six Paw.

 

Andy

Yep, that's the disk I have on order for over a year now!

[kmac]

I like the idea behind that wunderlicht disc but wow 280 bucks without the PPs is pretty steep and im not sure you can buy the PPs from BMW without the disc. So that would put the cost of changing all of the parts up at 790 bucksish without the ne PP bolts or crank FW bolts Yikes.

 

The RB really interest me at 360 bucks for the whole kit with PP bolts. I wish i could get intouch with someone there who may actually want to provide service.

 

I will try again today.

[AndyS]

They suggested putting an 1150 GS spring in for a bit more bite. They also recommend sticking with the stock springs.

 

A little confusing, surely the stock spring is the 1100 item for the 1100, and the 1150 spring for the 1150. If you fit an 1150 spring to an 1100 then you can't call that the stock spring.

 

Also it talks of the 1150 GS spring, just for info that spring is not special as it is the same item fitted to the 1150GS, RS, R, RT, Rockster, R850C, R850RT, R, R1200CL, C, R1100S,

 

So, what does concern me a little with putting the 1150 spring in the 1100 is that the clutch actuating arm (23131340829) has been known to break in half. Maybe this extra load might encourage more actuating levers to fail?

 

Andy

[tallman]

I think Paul's experience would send up a flag.

We installed several Black Hole kits from them, top notch.

 

But, the chances are that we won't see the clutch parts soon if the year wait is indicative.

 

Stock may be best in the short/long term.

Good luck.

[NonComp]

Kmac, do you know what the nature of the damage was? Was this bike in a collision of some kind? Any chance that they engine might not be the original?

[kmac]

Yes I know the damage that caused the salavage. It was a minor deal. The dealer told the insurance company that the tupperware could NOT be puttyed up and repainted by BMW standards so the Tupperware had to be replaced by all factory painted body pieces. All of the plastic on one side had small scratches and gouges and a few piesces on the other side as well. The Luggage all has a few scratches as well as the valve covers. All in all it is purely cosmetic, not even the mirror lenses were broken. It was a very low speed lay over in the rain that slid a bit then flopped over on the other side. Then the bike sat for a couple of years in a yard before it sold to the shop that just cleaned it up and sold it to me. The cost to buy all pre-painted tupperware and ne luggage was thousands of dollars, that put it past the 60% total value that some insurance companies use as a guide to total loss a vehichle. Purely cosmetic scratches that i can easily use some light bondo or even some spot putty to fill and respray the bike to a color of my choice and it will be perfect. There is nothing even broken, just scratches.

[kmac]

That site is crazy confussing isnt it? It talks about Complete clutch kits but it doesnt actually say they com with any of the PPs. Just bolts, disc and spline lube...sometimes it sounds like it is a complete kit, other paragraphs sound like it is just the disc and lube and bolts....very confussing for a moron like me.

[NonComp]

That site is crazy confussing isnt it? It talks about Complete clutch kits but it doesnt actually say they com with any of the PPs. Just bolts, disc and spline lube...sometimes it sounds like it is a complete kit, other paragraphs sound like it is just the disc and lube and bolts

Yes, I was confused too. I generally got the impression that it was just the friction disk and bolts and lube at that price, because of earlier posts from people who had checked into them, some as far back as five years ago.

[cali_beemer]

I just got an email from Hornig and it included some new parts in it. ONe of them is a new clutch that is un-affected by oil. The link to it is here:

 

New Clutch

 

Is anyone familiar with this? I dont need a new clutch but I have been watching this thread and thought I would share.

[NonComp]

I've seen it advertised, I think in the Owners News, for 1200's. The promo pic shows someone pouring oil over the friction disk from a bottle, so it get's your attention.

[cali_beemer]

I've seen it advertised, I think in the Owners News, for 1200's. The promo pic shows someone pouring oil over the friction disk from a bottle, so it get's your attention.

 

If it works then it seems like an ideal replacement, no more replacing the clutch just because a slave cylinder pissed on it.

[kmac]

So here is the question then. That disc looks nice, but what about the PPs? If i were to change just a disc, how can i check the metal PPs and see if they are bad?

If they are a bit shinny can I just take a sander and just scuff off any glazing, not sanding it down, just deglazing it?

Can you check for warpage? Do the really warp? Can i test it with a micrometer for thickness, then deglaze and reuse?

 

I dont have an oil issue, my disc even still has a very light color to and it not blackened by oil. If the disc is worn down by poor clutch adjustment or poor riding habits, will the PPs be shot as well?

 

Just doing a disc would REALLY help me out financially, but i wanna end up doing it twice. Although time is cheap right to me not workin...

[Goomicoo]

I know money is tight these days. But I would not want to do a clutch job twice. Put a price on your labor and sanity and I think that using new parts sounds like a bargain! It's not good riding weather right now anyway. Take your time.

Merry Christmas

[cali_beemer]

I dont have an oil issue, my disc even still has a very light color to and it not blackened by oil.

 

I realize your current issue is not from oil, but I posted that clutch becasue it seems oil is typically the cause of early death of these clutch's, whether it be from the tranny or a slave cylinder (not applicable the 1100). If I were going to be replacing the clutch plate anyway, it may be a good idea to protect your investment with one that resists oil. I also just thought I would share for those interested since I havent seen them discussed here before.

[NonComp]

Kmac, the advice that I received on this forum 3 years ago was that you should always replace the PPs and the friction disk as a set. The reason (if I remember correctly) is that the PPs wear in a cone shape. So the new friction disk might not mate evenly with the PPs and cause premature, uneven wear and (presumably) clutch slipping from new.

 

I don't think I've heard from anyone here who has not changed out the entire assembly. Also, I think the spring plate weakens over time.

 

On an 1100, you don't need to worry about a slave unit leak. And the incidence of a main seal leak I think is pretty rare on any oilhead.

 

Edit: I should put these comments in perspective: I bought my 1100r from a Honda dealer. It was a trade-in with a blown clutch. The shop had already ordered the clutch parts to repair it and were waiting for delivery of them when I went to look at it. I made them a low-ball offer on the bike plus parts at cost.

 

The bike was an orphan on their lot (mostly crotch rockets). They just wanted to get their money out of it. Even though they could have cut their costs by just changing the friction plate, they had ordered a complete replacement unit (the mechanic was a former BMW wrench).

[kmac]

Afternoon Cali-B, I am sorry if i sounded like i was discounting your input on posting that disc. I didnt mean to sound unappreciative. I like that disc and would consider using one leaky seal/slave or not. (I know i dont have a slave) My reason for the comment on not having an oil condition, was to raise the idea that if that disc only comes as a disc, like the RBR, It may not be to good if you have to buy a BMW kit just to get the PPs. Its too bad RBR, and Wunderlicht dont offer kits that include the other parts.

[kmac]

Okay, I just got off of the phone with RBR again. Now the story is tha they are still "testing" these clutches and they are "hoping" to have them available "SOON"...so after they have been advertising them on their website for over a year now, they dont actually have them made...."YET"

 

Maybe if my clutch last me another year or 2 they will be available...hahahaha.

[Paul Mihalka]

There is no BMW clutch "kit". You buy each part, pressure plates etc., individually. There should be no problem in combining a after-market clutch plate with the rest of BMW original parts.

[kmac]

Afternoon Paul,

Look at part #4 on this link. Is that not a Kit for $525.00?

 

http://www.ascycles.com/Illustrated_catalog2/MicroList.aspx?id=51680&catID=21&catname=21+Clutch

 

But i did find that i could get the PPs separately. I had only seen the kit #4 listed before today.

[kmac]

hmm tried it twice and it wont come up as a blue clickable link? weird

[Paul Mihalka]

It is not clickable but I copy/pasted it into the address and it works. You are right, there is a set. I always ordered/sold/bought the pieces individually. Out of anal curiosity I added up the price of the four individual parts included in the set and it comes up $7 cheaper . Go figure...

[kmac]

Goes to show us...we are never too old to learn something new...