Clutch Replacement

[BevBeng]

Does any one have any ideas the cost or number of work hours to change out the clutch at your local dealer?

 

On my last ride, the bike started to rev high and accelerate very slowly. Lots of play in the clutch, no unusual sounds (other than it sounds like I have the clutch engaged), no oil leaks and no problems shifting through the gears. Just poor acceleration and high revs. The bike is a 2k RTP. I read some threads about the clutch adjustment by the clutch but I'm not much of a wrench. I'll probably end up taking it to Max's in NH. Just preparing myself for the repair shock.

 

Thanks.

[dan cata]

I have read on a similar topic about 1500$ over there in USA.

 

If you buy the tools and parts, you can do it in ~ 500$ Then you still have the tools.

 

Dan.

[Woodie]

Same issue here. Not taking to the dealer.

[kmac]

I have read on a similar topic about 1500$ over there in USA.

 

If you buy the tools and parts, you can do it in ~ 500$ Then you still have the tools.

 

Dan.

 

I am close to needing to do it and i have another thread on this myself. From my research it is actually about $600.00 USD for the parts and tools. Just the clutch kit is $510.00 and then all of the PP and Flywheel bolts are another 30ish and then there is the oils and clutch alighnment too for 20ish...it is 600 easy.

$12-1500 bucks at a dealer, and you can do it i hear in 2 days yourself if you are very mechanical and can perform your own services...there is alot of help and info here on it.

How many miles on your 2k RT?

[dan cata]

On a 1150 that has an hidraulic clutch, assuming that you buy the whole clutch set: friction plate, diaphragm spring, pressure plate and clutch housing, you would only need the bolts.

 

If the bike has low miles on it and the clutch was destroyed because of oil leaks or slave cyl leak, I don't see the need to replace anything but the friction plate and clean the rest of the metal plates with gas. Even the friction plate can be restaured for 10$

 

There's no need for any centering tool. Just use the appropiate socket tool and that's it. Or have one made on a lathe, once you get the friction plate out.

 

If my clutch would be ruined, I would repair it myself for no more than 100$ Who want's to bet?

 

Dan.

[NonComp]

It it is a 2000 model, then its probably an 1100? No hydraulics on the clutch on 1100's. The clutch alignment tools is not necessary. You can align it by eye.

[dan cata]

It it is a 2000 model, then its probably an 1100? No hydraulics on the clutch on 1100's. The clutch alignment tools is not necessary. You can align it by eye.

 

I wouldn't try it by eye, becaus eyou have to screw those 6 bolts for good there, and you migh not get it centered.

 

But if you use a socket in the toolbox and the long actuator that engages the diaphragm spring you get it done right.

 

At least that's what I do.

 

Dan.

[NonComp]

I've done it by eye - twice. The clutch friction plate with the splines floats. You torque the compression bolts in a pattern to even out any movement. I didn't have any problem.

[BevBeng]

The 2k RTP engine is the 1100. Unfortunately I don't have the tools to do the repair and I am not too mechanically inclined. I've got 78k miles on the motor.

[kmac]

with 78k i would be okay with the bike needing a clutch and think it would be just normal wear and tear. My bike only has 15k on it so im really irritated that it needs a clutch.

 

My best guess, and even my hopes are that since the bike sat a good bit, that one of the engine or trans seals got dry and started leaking and that has caused the clutch to get oiled down and start slipping. If that is what happened to mine, then i know a new set of seals and a new clutch will remedy the problem and all will be fine.

[JAP]

I wouldn't try it by eye, becaus eyou have to screw those 6 bolts for good there, and you migh not get it centered.

 

Hi there, the centering is only for allowing the gear spline to catch the plate´s hub during assembling, once you press the clutch the plate will self center on the spline.

Best regards.

 

Japanese

[Edgar]

At such low miles, as stated before, it's very likely that the gearbox seal let go. It was not uncommon for the your vintage. In order to fix the seal you will have to split the case. A seal set (4) is about $50. You probably have an M94 gearbox so while you're in there you might want to address the shift forks.

[NonComp]

At such low miles, as stated before, it's very likely that the gearbox seal let go. It was not uncommon for the your vintage. In order to fix the seal you will have to split the case. A seal set (4) is about $50. You probably have an M94 gearbox so while you're in there you might want to address the shift forks.

I believe that some have successfully changed the rear input shaft seal without splitting the case. But I did all of them at the same time.

 

Reference to the M94 gearbox has been made in another clutch thread, but bringing it up to M97 specs involves having a specialist undercut the gearset. I also did this, and I should have done it when I had the gearbox out to do the clutch. I ended up splitting the bike a second time.

[Edgar]

"I believe that some have successfully changed the rear input shaft seal without splitting the case. But I did all of them at the same time."

 

The 1100 series requires splitting the case to address the seals. The 1150 gearbox seals can be addressed without splitting the case.

 

 

[dan cata]

I wouldn't try it by eye, becaus eyou have to screw those 6 bolts for good there, and you migh not get it centered.

 

 

Hi there, the centering is only for allowing the gear spline to catch the plate´s hub during assembling, once you press the clutch the plate will self center on the spline.

Best regards.

 

Japanese

 

That's true

[dan cata]

@Edgar, I didn't know that...

 

By splitting the case you mean just to remove part #2 here, right?

 

 

Dan.

[kmac]

Okay, so i know this has become an official hi-jack here...sorry to the OP.

 

But in my thread from a couple weeks ago, no one mentioned splitting the cases to do the trans seals...

 

How involved is that? and how can i tell what gear box i have?

[NonComp]

Yes. The full meal deal.

[NonComp]

How involved is that? and how can i tell what gear box i have?

 

Pretty involved. You have to pull the three shafts to get at all of the seals. You have to heat the case to put them back together. You want to take pictures AND make darns sure that the shims all go back on the same shaft in the right places.

 

Look you gearbox serial number up here:

 

Linky

[kmac]

According to my manual you install the input shaft from the clutch side of the trans housing not the inside of the gear box side. It says to punch the seal out from inside the gearbox side, But to me that would mean if you ahve the trans apart that would be optimal of course, but it looks like it very possible to remove the seal from the outside {clutch side of the housing} and drive in a new seal without splitting the cases on the M94.

 

My manual is specifically for the early 1100rt so it is for the M94 trans. I only plan on changing the main input shaft seal. not the other 3 small inside seals.

[dan cata]

I know about a mod where you would drill a small hole in your slave cyl housing, so that if the slave cyl would go bad, your clutch will not be affected by the brake fluid.

 

Could the same thing be done for the gearbox housing, where the gearbox meets the engine? So that oil drains trough there?

 

And most of all, how does oil get on the friction plate first of all ? Is it because of the centrifugal force?

 

Dan.

[Edgar]

Splitting the case is separating #1 and #2. Once #2 comes off you will have access to the shafts, gears, and forks oh my! Another approach is to remove the box and have a pro change the seals. Figure splitting the case, changing the seals, re shimming it, and buttoning it back up is a 4 hour job. This way you can get an accurate assessment of it's condition. Don't forget to be on the lookout for a 12mm hex for the final drive.

[NonComp]

I know about a mod where you would drill a small hole in your slave cyl housing, so that if the slave cyl would go bad, your clutch will not be affected by the brake fluid. Could the same thing be done for the gearbox housing, where the gearbox meets the engine? So that oil drains trough there? And most of all, how does oil get on the friction plate first of all ? Is it because of the centrifugal force?

On 1100's you have a clutch cable. No Hydraulics. The rear seal on the input shaft went on my 1100. The oil crawls up the clutch pushrod that runs through a tunnel in the center of the input shaft, and come out in the center of the clutch friction plate hub. Then it flies off due to centripital force.

 

LT owners sometimes drill a weeping hole into the bottom of their clutch housing, to show when the engine main seal starts to leak. That's apparently quite common on LTs.

[dan cata]

I know about a mod where you would drill a small hole in your slave cyl housing, so that if the slave cyl would go bad, your clutch will not be affected by the brake fluid. Could the same thing be done for the gearbox housing, where the gearbox meets the engine? So that oil drains trough there? And most of all, how does oil get on the friction plate first of all ? Is it because of the centrifugal force?

On 1100's you have a clutch cable. No Hydraulics. The rear seal on the input shaft went on my 1100. The oil crawls up the clutch pushrod that runs through a tunnel in the center of the input shaft, and come out in the center of the clutch friction plate hub. Then it flies off due to centripital force.

 

I know that I have changed the clutch on my 1100 gs and a friend's k1200RS.

 

What I was wondering about was the input shaft seal, but it seems it's the centripetal force that drives the oil on the plate.

[NonComp]

According to my manual you install the input shaft from the clutch side of the trans housing not the inside of the gear box side. It says to punch the seal out from inside the gearbox side, But to me that would mean if you ahve the trans apart that would be optimal of course, but it looks like it very possible to remove the seal from the outside {clutch side of the housing} and drive in a new seal without splitting the cases on the M94.

I think that true, but I think the seal that usually leaks is the rear one, not the front one.

 

I didn't think that there was any difference between M94 and M97s with respect to changing seals. I think that I remember earlier discussions that some guys have changed a rear output shaft seal while the tranny was still mounted to the engine. They drilled into the seal, install screws and then pulled it out.

 

I don't remember what mine looked like now. It's been a couple of years.

 

[Edgar]

Gearbox oil passes through the seal and wicks down the pushrod eventually fouling the clutch. Because of the small amount of oil that it takes to foul the clutch, rarely does it show drips or give you any indications that there is a leak. Any inspection other than removal doesn't reveal this type of leak.

There is no place that you can have the preventative hole.

 

As far as replacing the seal by itself...There are 3 others the same age in the box and it's a question of feeling lucky. You don't want to do this job again in the near future.

[NonComp]

Apparently there are some new ceramic clutches for the 1200's that are impervious to oil contamination.

[kmac]

Gearbox oil passes through the seal and wicks down the pushrod eventually fouling the clutch. Because of the small amount of oil that it takes to foul the clutch, rarely does it show drips or give you any indications that there is a leak. Any inspection other than removal doesn't reveal this type of leak.

There is no place that you can have the preventative hole.

 

As far as replacing the seal by itself...There are 3 others the same age in the box and it's a question of feeling lucky. You don't want to do this job again in the near future.

Evening Edgar,

I have been seriously studying my manual on the gearbox chapter

and i count the 4 seals, but only 1 of them can affect the clutch as far as i can tell. The only seal that is inside the clutch housing is the trans input seal and then of course the engine crankshaft main seal.

All of the other 3 trans seals i see are the 1) shift selector shaft seal{outside the clutch bell housing} 2)neutral switch seal {also not inside the bell house} 3) The OUTput shaft seal, of course that is on the other end of the trans.

 

None of those seals are obviously leaking to me. I do not want to split the cases...too much involved and if the only seal that affects the clutch is the crank and the input seal, i can easily change those and install the new clutch and i dont see how any of the other seals would affect the clutch in a negative way

[oldyam]

I beleive it is also possible for the output seal to cause this sort of problem too, especially on the earlier gearboxes.

 

Due to the wicking action as Edgar pointed out.

 

So it might also be a good idea to change this one too ....

[NonComp]

Kmac, I've been trying to tell you that there are seals at both ends of the input shaft. And since the clutch pushrod runs through the center of the input shaft, it creates a tunnel.

 

My input shaft seal at the REAR of the gearbox was the one that started leaking. I discovered it when I removed the throw bearing assembly and found it fouled with gearbox oil.

 

That's why they started installing a felt washer in the tunnel. To keep the oil from working its way forward from back to front.

 

BTW, there are five seals on the gearbox, counting the shifter.

[kmac]

Noncomp, now i see what you are saying. The input is hollow all the way thru and the seal at the back end can leak and that can let oil follow the push rod that runs all the way thru the input shaft.

The drawings in the factory manual are just so unclear, i couldnt see that aspect of how that would leak. It looked like that would just drip out the rear of the case and was not open to the bell housing but i see it can be now.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and for making me feel so stupid.

[NonComp]

Thanks for the clarification, and for making me feel so stupid.

Obviously, I was doing a poor job of attempting to explain it. I think that the majority of leaks on the input shaft are actually at the rear seal, rather than the front one.

 

I found the factory service manual very nearly useless. I recommend the Haynes manual for much better how-to info and photos.

 

Quick tip, when you disassemble the bike and get to the point where you are ready to separate the gearbox from the crankcase, make sure that you remove that clutch pushrod first. Otherwise, you may find that when the gearbox comes free from the guide pins, all of its 44 lbs will end up hanging on the fragile pushrod. DAMHIK.

 

 

[kmac]

Thanks for the clarification, and for making me feel so stupid.

Obviously, I was doing a poor job of attempting to explain it. I think that the majority of leaks on the input shaft are actually at the rear seal, rather than the front one.

 

I found the factory service manual very nearly useless. I recommend the Haynes manual for much better how-to info and photos.

 

Quick tip, when you disassemble the bike and get to the point where you are ready to separate the gearbox from the crankcase, make sure that you remove that clutch pushrod first. Otherwise, you may find that when the gearbox comes free from the guide pins, all of its 44 lbs will end up hanging on the fragile pushrod. DAMHIK.

 

Noncomp, thanks for the tip. I never have claimed to be a genius, hell i never even claim to be bright, i put put screws in the wall for a living. The whole system is just odd and so contrary to most flywheel mounted dry clutch systems i have ever worked on, like VWs or pickups and way different than any other MC clutch i have worked on, so thanks again for helping me get the picture even if it took me a while.

[NonComp]

I learned the hard way too. My '96 roadster is my first BMW. I bought it knowing the clutch was finished. I got the parts to fix the clutch as part of the deal.

 

All of this stuff will make sense once you take the plunge and pull her apart. I may not have survived the experience without the help of the good folks on this forum.