BMW's Oil Contradiction [Not an Oil Thread!!]

[Slainte]

 

In its maintenance literature BMW recommends Castrol oil products for use in its motorcycle engines. However, the Spectro Oil company produces BMW brand (labeled) oil. It seems paradoxical that they would recommend the consumer use one product and then endorse another item by wrapping the BMW label around it.

Personally, I believe that both Castrol and Spectro are excellent and equal products, so this is not an "Oil Thread" about oil quality or personal oil preference.

 

My questions: what is BMWs rationale for furnishing this conflicting information? Is Castrol somehow connected to Spectro?

[Roadwolf]

I actually think this Castrol recommendation, (even though printed in the US owner's manual) is a European connection to Castrol overseas. I imagine that over in Europe, Spectro is not a player and Castrol had brand recognition/reputation. They just left the logo in the US manual when it was produced.

[Boffin]

Before I joined this board I had never heard of Spectro. my UK dealer does not sell BMW branded oil, just Castrol.

I also know that the original engine oil testing for the oilhead boxer was carried out for BMW by Castrol in the UK - one of my former colleagues used to work for Castrol at the time they did the work.

 

Andy

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Slainte

 

At one time Spectro blended the BMW oil for the U.S market. I’m not sure that is still in effect as those contracts are usually yearly or short term anyhow.

What makes you think that Sprctro still blends BMW’s U.S. supplied oil’s . I haven’t seen any documentation on this for a couple of years now. Do you have anything current showing that Spectro is still in the picture?

 

If in fact the (US sold) BMW oil is still blended to BMW specs by Spectro it probably has to do with oil import rules, oil company capacity, willingness to blend to a specific set of specs, PRICE, MSDS requirements, and already existing tested products. It costs a lot of money to import oil products from Europe then get it tested for the US market complete with MSDS info and data sheets. If Spectro already had a product in the system that came close it would be cheaper than having Castrol change a plant process over to accommodate BMW’s requirements, or maybe the existing Castrol in the US is at a price point above what BMW thinks leaves a hefty profit for both them and the dealer.

 

The oil requirements between Europe and the US are different in many ways partly based on the US relaxed advertising rules about oil content to be called synthetic and other oil requirements.

 

As mentioned above the US BMW riders manual are just translated from their German origins so the use Castrol products is probably just part of that translation process. There are some other oddities in the US translated manuals if you look closely. Just try to find the manual requested Castrol SAF-XO gear oil in most parts of the US.

 

 

 

 

 

[flars]

You guys are overthinking this.

'How much will your oil cost us when we put it in our shops/factory?'

'How much will you pay us to put your name in our literature?'

[kmac]

Not sure if this has any bearing on it, but KTM changes their oil recommendations all of the time based on who is sponsoring their teams. One year it is Shellzone, one year it is Castrol, one year it is Motorex....if you had a KTM that was a few years old your book might say Shellzone, but when you go to the dealer they may only have Motorex and will tell you that that is what is recommended....right now.

[moshe_levy]

What makes you think that Sprctro still blends BMWs U.S. supplied oils . I havent seen any documentation on this for a couple of years now. Do you have anything current showing that Spectro is still in the picture?

 

Says it right on the label of the BMW 10W/50 oil I picked up a month or two ago. "Blended by Spectro Oil."

 

-MKL

[russell_bynum]

A wise man once said: "If it says 'Oil' on the side of the bottle, I pour it in."

 

We now return you to the daily haircut analysis thread.

[tallman]

The first 6,000 manuals are printed with natural ink.

If your manual states "Castrol" it was printed after the first 6,000 using synthetic ink.

 

[cali_beemer]

Says it right on the label of the BMW 10W/50 oil I picked up a month or two ago. "Blended by Spectro Oil."

 

-MKL

 

I thought the BMW's took 20W/50 oil?

[JayW]

Says it right on the label of the BMW 10W/50 oil I picked up a month or two ago. "Blended by Spectro Oil."

 

-MKL

 

I thought the BMW's took 20W/50 oil?

 

"Not an oil thread" indeed!

 

It's OK, just givin' ya a hard time. It was inevitable.

 

Jay

[dirtrider]

Says it right on the label of the BMW 10W/50 oil I picked up a month or two ago. "Blended by Spectro Oil."

 

-MKL

 

I thought the BMW's took 20W/50 oil?

 

Hi cali_beemer

 

BMW is now recommending 10w50 for the newer cam head boxer engines.

 

My dealer says it came from BMW engineering to protect the new style cams on start up. That might or might not be a true.

OR, It could just be a way of BMW trying to get their oil sales back to the dealers. (not much 10w50 available at WallMart)

 

[ka5ysy]

Corporate Schizophrenia.

 

[marcopolo]

The only market I've ever heard of where BMW dealers sell BMW-branded oil is the U.S. There's no such thing at Canadian BMW bike dealers as BMW-branded oil. Castrol is readily available here, but I've seen dealers use everything from Spectro and Castrol to Motul. Our riders' manuals also have the Castrol suggestion. Obviously BMW USA took it upon themselves to market BMW-branded oil.

[Slainte]

dirtrider,

 

The oil I picked up about six months ago states on the label, "Blended by Spectro ..."

 

That is what I'm going off of...it might have changed since?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Slainte

 

Thanks for clarifying that, I haven’t even picked up a bottle of BMW oil a while. In the old days it was pretty standard knowledge that the BMW branded oil was stuffed into the bottle by Spectro but things can change.

 

 

[Firefight911]

Winter has arrived.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Winter has arrived.

 

How's my haircut?

 

[outpost22]

Winter has arrived.

 

How's my haircut?

 

 

Looks good with that new gun!

[kmac]

All of the BMW labeled oil is made by Spectro. Even my 75/140 trans/diff oil is printed right on the back of the bottle "specially blended and bottled for BMW mottorad USA by Specto oils USA"

 

Im thinking the BMW USA may be the key here. Castrol is widely avaiable here in the USA but there may be some Import issues that has BMW USA has decided to use a US made oil here and the manual may be printed in Europe....IDK

[Slainte]

I'm of the old school thinking that "oil is oil." I was just curious to know why this contradiction exists between BMWs recommendation and the actual product in it's BMW labelled oil.

 

Thanks all,

 

I feel better educated now

[Motodan]

Not to side track too much, but I could never figure out why their (BMW) cars come with syn oil - and a please don't use regular oil comment...while the motorcycles come with regular oil and a - please don't put in syn oil for some break in (run in) period of time? Both have separate trans/crank oils, both have close to same rev ranges (I'm talking Boxer engine). Are the finished internals that different?

[rob1100r]

...while the motorcycles come with regular oil and a - please don't put in syn oil for some break in (run in) period of time?

 

Maybe because synthetic oil is better? ....

[Motodan]

...while the motorcycles come with regular oil and a - please don't put in syn oil for some break in (run in) period of time?

 

Maybe because synthetic oil is better? ....

 

This isn't a which is better thread (Lord spare me)...its a, I wonder why thread...

 

The point being...same maker, same basic metals and RPM ranges, yet one starts with dino and other with syn. The motorcycle side doesn't specifically recommend syn oil, but suggest not to change to syn oil, if one elects to, until reaching the 6,000 mile mark.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

In this day and age, it makes no sense to me to go through this whole rigmarole. I have been using synthetics in one form or another in all my engines and use it once the wear in period is done (abt 600 miles for me). My motors do not use oil nor have I ever had an oil related engine failure including some motors that regularly saw some very severe duty (all out drag race engines with 15:1 compression rations, heavy doses of nitrous oxide and red lines in excess of 12K RPM).

 

My Porsche came with Mobil-1 from the factory as does my buddies Z06 Vette and many other high quality cars.

 

Clean oil is more important than what is on the label.

[kmac]

I got nothing as to why one suggests syn and the other suggest dino. and no more ideas on why the book calls for one brand and the dealer sells a different brand with their labe on it.

 

I know i wont be using the BMW brand oil on my next oil change, it will just be a quality automotive oil that i can get at my local auto-parts store at a much lower cost...oil is oil, but i do believe in a quality name brand stuff, but even the bargain brands are often the name brands with a different label on it. They are usually an older formula or a simpler blend tho.

[Motodan]

Hey, wait a minute...Is that Castrol Oil or Castor Oil???

 

Here's a different application:

 

http://www.justmommies.com/articles/castor-oil-to-induce-labor.shtml

 

Think there's a web site out there discussing what weight or rather syn or dino Caster Oil should be used in child birth?

 

I assume, from a BMW perspective, one would use dino Caster, until after the first baby, then switch to syn Castor.

[Deek]

You guys are overthinking this.

'How much will your oil cost us when we put it in our shops/factory?'

'How much will you pay us to put your name in our literature?'

 

Just to put things in perspective, I just had the oil and filter changed along with the fuel filter in my Chevy Duramax truck: $300! So maybe those RT oil changes at the dealer aren't all that bad!

[moshe_levy]

Not to side track too much, but I could never figure out why their (BMW) cars come with syn oil - and a please don't use regular oil comment...while the motorcycles come with regular oil and a - please don't put in syn oil for some break in (run in) period of time? Both have separate trans/crank oils, both have close to same rev ranges (I'm talking Boxer engine). Are the finished internals that different?

 

The answer is quite simple. BMW covers the standard maintenance in their cars (used to be 3 years / 36 months when I had mine, and might be up to 4 years / 48k now). In my experience (2000 328i, 2003 530i, 2006 X5 4.4i) the car's maintenance alert came on about every 15k. Now, I leased mine, so I could care less, but if the cars were mine I should would want oil changes more often than every 15k. My mom, who drives her BMWs more gently than I, has her alarm coming on at about 20k intervals.

 

The bikes, as you know, do not have any "free" maintenance, thus no incentive for the manufacturer to stretch the maintenance interval, which is more possible with syn than with dino.

 

I agree with those who are saying, more or less, that there is way too much thought put into the issue of oil, and brand especially. There are guys in here who run 100-200k on bikes on standard oil without preference for brand. What else does one need to know beyond that?

 

In the owner's manual for most vehicles, in addition to oil, they specify their own brand of soap suds, wax, and windsheild wiper fluid to use. Is that to say we can't use other brands if we so choose? As Flars said:

 

'How much will your oil cost us when we put it in our shops/factory?'

 

'How much will you pay us to put your name in our literature?'

 

-MKL

[CoarsegoldKid]

...Even my 75/140 trans/diff oil is printed right on the back of the bottle "specially blended and bottled for BMW mottorad USA by Specto oils USA"

 

I love oil threads. I believe the trans/diff gets 75/90. Don't make me change it so soon.

[kmac]

I know alot of people say not to, but my book and my dealer say to use 75/140 in both trans and diff so that is what i do.

 

The numbers have a meaning, as you may know, that the 75w means when cold is never thicker than 75w would be at the designated cold temp. and that the 140 means at a designated high temp the oil will not thinner than a straight 140w would be at that temp.

 

So in my understanding and research 75/140 just means it will be more consistent in viscosity than 75/90. I do not see a down side to running the 75/140....im sure other will argue this but i have gone to a 2 day OIL CLINIC when i sold auto parts {so i am an expert } and i am confident in my decision.

[Heck]

Just to put things in perspective, I just had the oil and filter changed along with the fuel filter in my Chevy Duramax truck: $300! So maybe those RT oil changes at the dealer aren't all that bad!

 

 

Yeah....4 quarts vs 3 gallons..

 

Aren't the billable shop rate hours comparable for the two vehicles?

[Polo]

I like Ybarra oil.

[tallman]

All of the oil branded BMW at our local shop, including today's UPS delivery, is marked from Spectro.

[Slainte]

I believe it has been that way for many years. Interestingly, Spectro is a bit more expensive when sold under it's own label? Slapping on the BMW label brings the price down about 50¢ per quart? Now that's a first for BMW.

[NoHeat]

It seems paradoxical that they would recommend the consumer use one product and then endorse another item by wrapping the BMW label around it.

 

Paradox? You're giving BMW too much credit.

 

What you've got here is a bunch of rogues in the North American office trying to make a buck by peddling their own house-brand wares, while the guys in Munich are too busy eating Weiss-wurst and drinking beer during the morning break to pay any attention to what is going on.

[UberXY]

The owners manual (2nd edition) for my RR calls for Castrol Power RS (Castrol Power 1 in Europe), which I was surprised to find for a good price on the shelves of the local discount auto parts store (Advance Auto).

 

If you enjoy oil discussions/arguments, you can get hundreds of them 24x7 from the 33,000 members of the bobistheoilguy.com forum.

 

 

[Deek]

My wife's car is a BMW 328i, so I understand their warranty/service. It's very nice, I must admit. Too bad my BMW motorcycle isn't the same!

 

My diesel truck is used 95% for towing our FW, so it sees little use, on average about 5k per year. I have the oil and filter, and fuel filters changed annually before I put it in the garage for the winter. I know I'm changing the oil much more often than is required, but I don't like the idea of putting it in the garage for 3-4 months with "old" oil.

 

I like the idea of using syn oil, especially in the diesel, but I agree it's much less an issue than most folks think.

[Deek]

Just to put things in perspective, I just had the oil and filter changed along with the fuel filter in my Chevy Duramax truck: $300! So maybe those RT oil changes at the dealer aren't all that bad!

 

 

Yeah....4 quarts vs 3 gallons..

 

Aren't the billable shop rate hours comparable for the two vehicles?

 

Yep, you're close, the diesel takes 10 gts I think. Not sure about the shop rates, but I expect Firestone's are less than my BMW (motorcycle) shop. He's $80 per hour I think. And the big item with the truck is the labor (apparently) involved with the fuel filter(s) change.....need to remove a bit of the engine bay components to reach it/those. Just an oil and filter change on the truck is $90 using Rotella.

[notacop]

Ever notice that after 5-10 responses that the thread falls apart and folks are just throwing in the 2 cents?

[ESokoloff]

Ever notice that after 5-10 responses that the thread falls apart and folks are just throwing in the 2 cents?

In this example (as is often the case), the question was answered by the second post & further discussion is off topic but non the less of interest (to many).

[CoarsegoldKid]

2 cents here. 2 cents there. It all adds up.

[Motodan]

Ever notice that after 5-10 responses that the thread falls apart and folks are just throwing in the 2 cents?

 

Do you think its really that much?

[Slainte]

Hey I started the thread and explicitly stated that it was "[Not an Oil Thread!!]." However its been an educational experience , for me , even though it crossed that "Oil Thread " definition.