Very concerning billing issue with XMRadio

[John Ranalletta]

In July, I lost the credit card that was on file with XMRadio. My XM subscription expired in Oct. We rec'd a notice in Sep of the upcoming renewal and I commented to my wife that we'd just wait until we got a notice from XM that the old credit card was invalid as I intended to cancel the service anyway. Neither of us logged into nor did we call XM to give them the number of the new credit card. Our last log on to XM was 7/7/10. The new card was issued 7/17/10.

 

Today, our Chase statements shows a charge from XM. I logged into the XM account and found the new credit card numbers, except the screen listed my card as an AMEX, not a Visa.

 

I called Chase. They said they never give out the card numbers. I called XM. They keep no records of updates or accesses to customer accounts; and, they could not explain it.

 

When asked what I desired, I said I wanted to cancel the account at which point I was offered 1/2 off, but still canceled.

[Twisties]

Unauthorized access to your CC's? I think I would notify the appropriate agency in your State. Likely a department of your State AG's office.

 

Very curious as to how they got the CC numbers in any event.

[John Ranalletta]

The onus would be on me to prove a negative, i.e. that neither of us had updated the cc info. I know we didn't, but I can't prove it. Since XM reportedly keeps no record of updates, there's no proof. OTOH, other accounts where the old card was used, inc. AT&T Wireless, advised me when attempts to charge the card failed; and, I updated those.

 

Given the situation, I'd like to know the source of my card info.

[ghaverkamp]

I called XM. They keep no records of updates or accesses to customer accounts; and, they could not explain it.

 

I don't buy that for a minute. I can believe that customer service doesn't have access to that information, but there's no way I'd believe that XM doesn't have such records.

[Twisties]

If it were important enough to you to try to take an action against them, you might find that in discovery you found a very different picture of what records they have, than the story they are telling you today. I assume it is not that important.

 

On the other hand, if your AG is receiving a number of similar consumer complaints, they might develop a greater motivation than you as an individual. Again, no telling what may come out in discovery. I for one do not believe that they have no record of the CC update. I don't see any onus on you in reporting it to the AG and then dropping the matter.

 

 

[Skywagon]

If it is on AMEX, call AMEX and tell them unauthorized and they will take care of it. Trust me I know.

[Dave McReynolds]

I've had similar problems. Sometimes I've wanted to cancel an automatic charge to my credit card. The credit card company has told me that I can't do that; that I have to cancel the payment through the company billing the payment. I could of course cancel the credit card, but the credit card company doesn't seem to care whether I cancel the card or not.

 

Whenever I've requested a new credit card number, thinking that my old credit card may have been compromised, the automatic payment has been transferred to my new credit card.

 

Whenever my anti-virus comes up for renewal, there is just an automatic charge to my card without my approval.

 

I'm thinking that I need to get more control over these things, and just cancel the damn cards.

[Twisties]

I stopped authorizing any automatic payments from any accounts after that kind of experience Dave. I won't even sign an employer's direct deposit authorization w/o lining through the part where they can debit my account for errors.

[John Ranalletta]

I called XM. They keep no records of updates or accesses to customer accounts; and, they could not explain it.

 

I don't buy that for a minute. I can believe that customer service doesn't have access to that information, but there's no way I'd believe that XM doesn't have such records.

They weren't very forthcoming when I asked for specific dates, however, they didn't put up an argument either. I asked the first person (an outsourced customer service person) and the customer service person to check their databases for dates and times and was told they don't keep that data. I don't believe it either, but there's nothing I could do about it.

[John Ranalletta]

Whenever I've requested a new credit card number, thinking that my old credit card may have been compromised, the automatic payment has been transferred to my new credit card.

Dave, are you inferring the cc company simply slid the charge over to the new card? That makes sense since it is essentially the same account with a new number.

 

It seems that my cc company is the culprit here, but that doesn't explain why AT&T slammed against the old card and asked me to update it.

[John Ranalletta]

Since canceling PayPal, getting along sans cc is a problem. We are in the process of canceling all but the most essential recurring (fat tail) subscriptions. DirecTV is the next to go.

 

XM became superfluous now that I listen to podcasts and books on tape in the car.

[Shaman97]

XM became superfluous now that I listen to podcasts and books on tape in the car.

 

Same with me, though I use my iPhone instead of tape.. I cancelled Sirius/XM and switched to podcasts and Pandora. I miss some of the programming, but not much. And not enough to pay for it.

[Mike O]

John,

 

FWIW, I've had very serious security issues with a Chase issued c/c. Here's my experience:

 

I keep $0 balances on any card I happen to use (I have very few). I noticed in a Chase statement I received that the interest rate (which I ordinarily couldn't care less about keeping no outstanding balance) was at 21%. Out of curiosity (and given my credit history) I called and inquired why the high interest rate? To my dismay, they told me it was due to several payments that were late. I told them I didn't even have an outstanding balance (and actually not used the card for several months). But according to their records that wasn't the case. They connected me with another agent which upon asking me requisite security questions, they fell silent on their end (I could immediately tell the agent was alarmed and knew something was askew with their records and my account).

 

Long story shorter, Chase had inadvertently cross referenced my social security number to another persons application (this turned out to be an automobile loan). It took Chase some time to figure this out. I lived with that single error as they were unable to resolve this in their database. My information was crossed with another person's (effectively it appeared as though my identity had been stolen).

 

And to make matters worse, C/C companies routinely sell their database information to other marketing companies. And those resell that information. To this day I continue to receive mail offers for another gentleman (who's information was cross referenced to my account by Chase) after months upon months of trying to get Chase to resolve their error. They have never accepted responsibility for this error (only that they are attempting to resolve it).

 

I will never give Chase another piece of personal information nor will I do any business with them (or any business that uses them as a credit clearing house).

 

Mike O

 

P.S. From a security perspective Chase revealed enough information to me (including the other gentleman's SSN!) in an attempt to assist resolution. I was able to determine WHAT he purchased (it was a fancy Lexus) and his home address (which came in a mailing to my address). And yes, he was behind (several payments) on his Chase auto loan.

 

Beware Chase...

[cali_beemer]

XM is a very shady company to deal with. I have had several billing issues and the last time I quit the service it took 3 phone calls to finally get them to stop.

[DavidEBSmith]

FWIW, XM's billing system is screwed up. We have a Sirius factory radio in the car and I have XM on the bike, and I had to update the expiration date on the credit card on the Sirius account (same number, new expiration). I actually have a record that I had set the Sirius account to use an Amex card, but it showed an MC card number (the one I had used on the account before the Amex), with the MC card listed as "AMEX" card type. I changed it to the Amex card I wanted to use, it seemed to stick.

 

Then I went into the XM account and it too shows the MC card number with "AMEX" as card type. I tried to change it to the Amex card that I had just put on the Sirius account and XM wouldn't accept it, saying there is a problem with the number. Nor would it take a Visa card number.

 

Someday they're supposed to merge the Sirius and XM billing systems and then nothing will work.

[Shaman97]

XM is a very shady company to deal with. I have had several billing issues and the last time I quit the service it took 3 phone calls to finally get them to stop.

 

They're the modern day AOL.

[John Ranalletta]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Which cc companies would you recommend? We had a bad experience with Citicard where we had a 35 year relationship and experienced a 5-day float for an electronic payment and subsequent late charge which was removed.

 

We do not carry balances. My monthly charges range from $4k - 6k/month for personal and business.

[flars]

Here's how credit card updates and 'recurring billing' work:

Most companies use a credit card clearing house for handling cc charges - the company sends the charge and cc number/exp date to the clearing house, and the clearing house communicates to the cc issuer (Visa, MC, et al - the cc number determines whether it is a Chase Visa card, or whatever). The company keeps your cc number/exp date on file with your account. They sometimes keep the previous cc number if you change cards.

In the case of most recurring billing, the company has to tell you they are going to hit your card, then two weeks or so later, they send the charge up to the clearing house. Additionally, many companies subscribe to 'cc updater', which can be performed two ways - by automatic notification, where the clearing house automatically sends updates to the company, and by 'on demand' notification, where the company sends a request to the clearing house for cc updates.

For recurring billing, many companies send a 'cc updater' transaction to the clearing house two weeks or so before they attempt to charge your card, which checks for new expire dates, and new cc numbers. If you got a replacement cc this is where XM found out what the new card was.

We now return to our normally scheduled rant.

 

[John Ranalletta]

Thanks. That sequence corresponds to our experience and explains what happened.

 

How can one find out if a vendor participates in the clearing house?

[Twisties]

So a card issuer issues a new card due to an identified security risk, and a clearing house spreads the new card number to vendors without authorization, potentially recreating the security risk? Did I get that right?

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Which cc companies would you recommend? We had a bad experience with Citicard where we had a 35 year relationship and experienced a 5-day float for an electronic payment and subsequent late charge which was removed.

 

We do not carry balances. My monthly charges range from $4k - 6k/month for personal and business.

 

Find a small reputable Credit Union in your area and join it.

[John Ranalletta]

Have belonged to a CU for many moons and have a back up card there; however, the issuer is Citicard. Only use it in emergencies.

 

There are only so many credit card associations, including Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express that private label cards for CUs, banks, AARP, airlines, car companies, gasoline retailers etc. Not sure how many.

 

AFAIK, they all suck.

[Richard_D]

XM just tried to automatically renew me without my permission. I specifically told them 6 months ago not to do it. I called them today and they made me an offer to keep XM for one year and with a $50 credit it only comes to $38.44 for the year. I took it and told them to send me a bill which I will pay by check.......

[Mike O]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Which cc companies would you recommend? We had a bad experience with Citicard where we had a 35 year relationship and experienced a 5-day float for an electronic payment and subsequent late charge which was removed.

 

We do not carry balances. My monthly charges range from $4k - 6k/month for personal and business.

 

Hey John,

 

Short experience time line.... But I've been using BOA. (I have other financial reasons - Merrill Lynch - for using them - std disclaimer)

 

Mike O