New to me 96 RT Idle, clutch questions?

[ChuckAZ]

So I got a 96 RT in trade for a KTM I rebuilt. The bike had the sight glass blown out of it when I first looked at it and the Owner (MMI instructor) repaired it and we did the trade. It had 71K on it and when I got it it was not timed correctly so I took it to a local BMW shop to have it re-timed and it runs much better.

 

It had been sitting for a better part of 8 months with about a gallon of bad fuel in it so the first thing I did was but good fuel in it. The shop told me to put about a half a gallon of race fuel in it to compensate for the bad fuel. My first question is will a small amount of lead fuel ruin the O2 sensors?

 

I took it out for my first ride today and went about 50 miles.

 

It is very cold blooded and will not idle on it's own for very long and it will stall when coming to a stop. I am not sure the idle is set high enough? It is 800-900 but will never stay steady enough to get a good reading. Do I have to resync the carbs if i reset the idle? How do I bump the idle up? I checked both brass screws and they were very carbon coated so I cleaned them and in the mean time wanted to replace the o rings but cannot find the correct sides.

 

Maintinence planned this week:

 

I have already set the TPS to .379

 

Replace Fuel filter

Replace O rings on the BBS and set to two turns out.

 

 

What other things do I look at?

 

Thanks

Chuck

 

[cali_beemer]

Are you familiar with the fast idle lever? They need this when the bike is cold. With that many miles, I would probably soak the injectors in seafom and probably put in new spark plugs.

[Selden]

Clean the BBS and passages with injector cleaner -- they can crud up pretty quickly, and you can't get a good idle if they are dirty.

[ChuckAZ]

I am using the fast idle lever. I hold it open but upon warming up the difference in the default fast idle position and and the lever being "off" is non existent.

 

Would you take the entire Throttle Body off and clean them or just the injector and BBS passages?

[cali_beemer]

I am using the fast idle lever. I hold it open but upon warming up the difference in the default fast idle position and and the lever being "off" is non existent.

 

Would you take the entire Throttle Body off and clean them or just the injector and BBS passages?

 

Have you checked the cable tension in the fast idle cable?

[Mark K]

Good advice so far. Welcome to the board! For a newcomer, you sure seem to have all the acronyms down pat.

 

The problems you describe are very minor and usually easily corrected. These bikes are so easy to work on. Given your location, I wonder if you might find a local to get you up to speed more quickly?

[AndyS]

I am using the fast idle lever. I hold it open but upon warming up the difference in the default fast idle position and and the lever being "off" is non existent.

 

Would you take the entire Throttle Body off and clean them or just the injector and BBS passages?

 

I would suggest from the above info that you need to revisit checking both the TB's and/or the bowden box.

If there is no difference between fast idle on and fast idle off, then you have to sort that out before setting everything else up.

 

Andy

[NonComp]

I am using the fast idle lever. I hold it open but upon warming up the difference in the default fast idle position and and the lever being "off" is non existent. Would you take the entire Throttle Body off and clean them or just the injector and BBS passages?

If turning the BBSs in/out does not affect idle speed, then remove them and swab them out the passages with Q-tips soaked in O2 sensor-friendly carb cleaner. You may have to fish a small, solid core, insulated wire (a stiff wire) throught the passage at the bottom of the BBS port to clear it. I used about 20-30 Q-tips per side before I got all the carbon out. It is not necessary to remove the TBs to do this.

 

Also, check and see if the fast idle lever is actually pulling the throttle cables enough to lift the valves off their stops. If not, you may have a broken cable. Rotate the throttle and release and check to see if they both return to their stops. The fast idle (choke lever) should hold both of them open a bit.

 

There are procedures for setting these cables up from scratch, but don't mess with them until you determine that they are the problem.

[dan cata]

If your idle does not increase while fiddling the BBS then it's probably one of these:

 

-carbon deposits like Chuck suggested;

-air leaks

-plates not resting on the stop screws - that's unlikely since your idle is 8-900 rpm.

 

Did you mess with the plate stopping screws?

 

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Morning Chuck

 

On a bike that has been sitting with bad gasoline in it like yours apparently has you probably need to run a few tanks of gasoline through it with some sort of fuel system cleaner in it like Techron concentrate.

 

I see you did replace the fuel filter but you could still have some blockage or spray pattern issues with the fuel injectors.

 

Until the fuel system is acting correctly you probably don’t want to make too many major adjustments.

 

As mentioned above, it sure wouldn’t hurt to remove the BBS screws and clean the air passages in the TB’s under those screws. If the passages are restricted all the screw tip cleaning in the world won’t help the air flow through the underlying passages.

 

You mentioning that the choke lever doesn’t effect the idle speed is kind of pointing to something wrong in that area.

Until you get some more tanks of fuel through that bike you might increase the choke (fast idle) lever control. To do that find the rubber boot on the choke cable up near the lever, then slide that off the adjuster nut, then turn the choke adjuster nut to pull the cable housing farther away from the lever housing. That should give the choke (fast idle) lever way more control over the fast idle RPM. At least that way you can use the choke lever to keep the bike idling when it is in a stalling mood.

Don’t worry, on your 1100 boxer that choke lever is simply a fast idle control and doesn’t unnaturally enrich the fuel/air mixture even though it says choke on it.

 

[ChuckAZ]

So I began working on the bike and I got the TPS set to .380 and the BBS port cleaned with seafoam and Q-tips and they are reinstalled with 1.5-2 turns out from seated. Started the bike up and it will not idle at all and it coughs through the air cleaner. I can smell it running rich. How do I get it to idle good enough to sync the TB's.

 

I have read that the coughing is probably a tps setting but I have checked and re checked it a couple of times.

 

I am still waiting for my fuel filter to show up so that has not been changed yet.

 

Suggestions????

[dirtrider]

Evening Chuck

 

Start by making darn sure the throttle cables are PROPERLY and FULLY seated in their furrels at the TB attachment area. That is the number one cause of not idling correctly after working in that area.

 

If OK on the cable seating slowly open and close the twist grip then use your other hand to physically verify BOTH side throttles hit the full closed and full open stops at the same time.

 

BTW, the TPS would have to way off base to cause your problems so if it is above .340v and below .399v at no-choke idle then that isn’t your problem.

 

[ChuckAZ]

Okay so I got it running well enough to sync the tb and it is idleing much better but not nearly what I have experienced from other oilheads I have heard.

 

The right side lock nut was loose and may have been causing some of the issues.

 

Just for grins I checked the TPS after syncing the TB's and it was all the way up to .443? Isn't it suppose to keep it's adjustment or is the adjustment a baseline for the engine computer to take over?

 

How about the O2 sensors? Could they be causing some issues too. Just a thought.

 

Thanks

 

[ChuckAZ]

Disregard the TPS voltage. I forgot that I had moved the throttle plate screw. I have it back to .380 again. I am going to resync it in the morning to make sure I did not miss anything tonight.

 

Is the throttle plate screw suppose to be touching on the right side Throttle body? Mine is not.

 

If I had to get O2 sensors is there a general Bosch part number I can get. I know heated O2 sensors for cars are about 70.00 not 275.00.

 

Thanks

Chuck

[cali_beemer]

you can save some oney and buy the bosh generic unit at Beemerboneyard. I think the one i bought for my RS was 80 or 90 bucks through them.

[dirtrider]

Disregard the TPS voltage. I forgot that I had moved the throttle plate screw. I have it back to .380 again. I am going to resync it in the morning to make sure I did not miss anything tonight.

 

Is the throttle plate screw suppose to be touching on the right side Throttle body? Mine is not.

 

If I had to get O2 sensors is there a general Bosch part number I can get. I know heated O2 sensors for cars are about 70.00 not 275.00.

 

Thanks

Chuck

 

Morning Chuck

 

Yes! BOTH side TB’s must have their throttle shaft cams touching the stop screws at hot curb idle. If one side is not then you probably have tight throttle cables with not enough slack in them at choke off curb idle. Make sure you have PLENTY of cable slack before continuing on the TB idle and off idle balance.

 

On the 02 sensor? (your 1100 bike only has 1) It could be causing you issues if it is acting up. Just disconnect it until you get the bike running correctly. In fact on the 1100 the engine will probably run and perform better with it disconnected. Once you get the engine running and idling correctly try hooking it back up to see if it degrades the idle or brings a 3-4k surge back into the picture, if so then address that issue.

 

[ChuckAZ]

Okay so here is what I have.

 

Left side:

 

TPS is set to .380 and BBS is out 1.5 turns

 

Right side:

 

crossover cable is loose and BBS is set to 1.5 turns but the throttle plate stop screw is loose and not touching.

 

This is what I am thinking:

 

To fix this I would have the bike warm and adjust the throttle stop screw until the mercury sticks are even? Then fine tune it with the BBS.

 

Is this correct?

 

I tried this but it seems to run worse once the mercury sticks are even. On a side note, it does not seem to make much difference where the BBS's are at, it does not make the idle change. I screwed them all the way out for a quick second to be sure they was air movement and there is.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

 

[NonComp]

I tried this but it seems to run worse once the mercury sticks are even. On a side note, it does not seem to make much difference where the BBS's are at, it does not make the idle change. I screwed them all the way out for a quick second to be sure they was air movement and there is.

I think your BBS passageways are still blocked. Did you fish a small, solid-core wire through the small passageway at the bottom of each BBS port? You have to wiggle it around a bit, but once it penetrates, you should feel no resistance as the wire passes freely into the TB bore.

 

[dirtrider]

Okay so here is what I have.

 

Left side:

 

TPS is set to .380 and BBS is out 1.5 turns

 

Right side:

 

crossover cable is loose and BBS is set to 1.5 turns but the throttle plate stop screw is loose and not touching.

 

This is what I am thinking:

 

To fix this I would have the bike warm and adjust the throttle stop screw until the mercury sticks are even? Then fine tune it with the BBS.

 

Is this correct?

 

I tried this but it seems to run worse once the mercury sticks are even. On a side note, it does not seem to make much difference where the BBS's are at, it does not make the idle change. I screwed them all the way out for a quick second to be sure they was air movement and there is.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

 

Afternoon Chuck

 

Well with that totally loose R/H stop screw and at your point of TB balance discrepancies I would strongly suggest you start with the 0=0 procedure to at least get back to something to start with.

 

As a rule I don’t suggest or even think the 0=0 is worth the effort but in your case you need to get back to something somewhat normal to start from. Personally I would get back there in a different and quicker way but way too involved to walk you through it over the internet.

 

SO, my suggestion is to first COMPLETELY clean and verify the BBS air passages are clean and open.

Then verify that both side TB’s have the throttle plates centered in their bores and ALL the throttle plate screws are tight.

Then at least verify the TB throttle shaft bushings are not totally trashed.

 

Then do the 0=0 to get you back somewhat close to an even side to side starting point.

 

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/zero528.shtml

 

 

 

0=0link

[ChuckAZ]

Okay I did the 0=0 and have done the sync. While doing the sync I have noticed that the right cylinder is backfiring/burping into the airbox and every time that happens the mercury jumps a little.

 

Is this a spark issue? Or a fuel issue?

 

Once I have done the 0=0 and sync it will idle at 1300-1400, how do I adjust that down to the optimal 1100?

 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Chuck

 

On the barking back into the airbox? That could be about anything from a leaking or sticking intake valve, to a lean condition causing the ignition to take place on an opening intake valve, to an errant spark across the spark plug, to anything that causes it to fire or partially fire on an open intake valve.

Maybe re-check your valve settings on that side and if OK ride it for while to see if the backfiring goes away. Maybe as simple as a piece of carbon caught under an intake valve on that side.

 

On the high idle, the correct way is to lower the idle stop screws just a little evenly on each side but you might be able to cheat a little and just close the BBS screws down slightly on each side. Re-do the idle TB balance in either case. Nothing sacred about 1-1/2 or 2 turns out but the exact same turns out on each side is desirable.

 

As I mentioned in the above post a 0=0 just gets you back in the ball park but sometimes it still takes a little fiddling to get it perfect from there.

 

[ChuckAZ]

Thanks for all the help.

 

I think I have it good for now. I took that tank off this afternoon to get ready for the new filter coming tomorrow but while doing that I decided to replace the pump. The pump will not be here until next Wed so in the mean time I am going to get the injectors cleaned and balanced. With those taken care of it will be easier to narrow down any future idling issues.

 

I will keep you posted.

 

Chuck

[Mark K]

Thanks for the updates. Best of luck to you -- you've been quite busy!

 

I'm sure you'll get her purring soon enough with that amount of determination.

[ChuckAZ]

latest update: I got he injectors back from cleaning and they said they had to do some extra cleaning to get them the way they like them. The initial flow test was within spec but when they cleaned them and then flowed them again one was way off so they backflow cleaned them a couple of times and that released some sediment that must have been in cought the injectors. That is probably why for some short spurts the bike would idle great and most times it would not.

 

I hope between this and the new fuel pump I solve the problems.

[ChuckAZ]

So here is what I replaced.

 

1. New Gas

2. All In tank fuel lines and clamps

3. Fuel Filter

4. Fuel pump

5. External Fuel lines

6. Removed carbon canister

7. Ultrasonic Cleaned injectors

 

With all on that I fired it up and it idles without holding the throttle like before and it is not even synced yet. Only had it on for a couple of min because I do not have time tonight to tune it but I will Sync the TB's on Sunday and see how much better she runs. I am very happy the 500.00 spent on parts in worth the time and money.

 

Thanks for all your help guys

 

Chuck