Clutch dying

[kmac]

I have posted in the past that my NTM 96 r1100rt has a slipping clutch.

I have completely adjusted as per the book spec, I am SURE it is now adjusted correctly. The previous owner must have ridden with it mis-adjusted or has hand on the lever a bit.

That OR it has a leak on the crank seal or the trans input seal.

 

I dont see ANY oil leaking around the engine/trans joint so i doubt it is a wet clutch. MY question is, Is there anyway to see in there, like an inspection cover to see the plate or even a way to tell if it is leaking and just burning off in the heat of the clutch?

 

If i ever have to hammer the clutch or grab the brakes hard before i pull in the clutch, there is a horrible clutch burning stink, but i cant tell if it is an oil smell as well, but DANG it stinks and it stays around for days.

 

Also, has anyone had experience with RB racings RSR clutches? They look really nice and like a great upgrade to the stock clutch and with a kit going for $325.00 including bolts and a stock kit going for $510.00 without bolts it seems like a great deal....

ANY input here from the GURUS is very appreciated...HELP

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Kmac

 

Probably the best bet to get a somewhat look at the clutch and surrounding area is to remove the starter then drop a light on a wire down in there. You can usually see oil residue if you have an engine or trans oil leak.

 

You can also get an idea of clutch disk thickness.

 

What you can’t see through the starter opening is the operating parts or clutch plate glazing.

 

[kmac]

Afternoon DR, thanks for replying,is there anyway to knock off glazing, i seriously doubt that with 15k miles on it, even with a bit of slipping it is worn out yet, not impossible just not likely.

 

I will try the starter removal and look in there, will spraying brake clean in there have any effect on a glazed disc?

 

Is the mating surface of the engine to the trans sealed enough to not leak on the ground if there was a seal leak. Seems like if it would be enough of an oil leak to affect the clutch slippage, it would be enough to weep out somewhere after a bit of a sitting

[dan cata]

I changed the clutch on my 1100 GS because I ride it without adjusting it

 

I bet I could have got more out of it but it started slipping so I changed only the friction plate because the pressure plate and the clutch housing had no burn marks.

 

Dan.

[Paul Mihalka]

"Also, has anyone had experience with RB racings RSR clutches? They look really nice and like a great upgrade to the stock clutch and with a kit going for $325.00 including bolts and a stock kit going for $510.00 without bolts it seems like a great deal...."

 

I have a order with RB racing for a RSR clutch for about a year now. A few times I emailed the answer was "it will be soon". I've given up hope.

 

[kmac]

That sucks, it looks like a nice product and decent price.

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

if i were you (especially easy for me to say it as i dont have to do all the work!) i think i would "get in there and take a look" (i.e full disassembly).

 

worst case you can lube your splines and do a proper inspection and get to know your bikes internals (maybe better than you want to!)

 

its winter too so in sympathy for your brothers up north who are running out of riding days you could/should take your bike off the road for a few weeks....

 

i guess clutches dont fail suddenly so even if you go on rides of decent RT lengths (nice little 350 km loop for the afternoon) you probably wont get stranded by it... (this is a guess)

what would the pros do? i'm thinking if you took it to shop they would just rip into it a give you a new clutch....

 

search on 'tail in the air' for tutorials with photos.

 

good luck.

 

 

[kmac]

I rode yesterday and will ride tomorrow....it is really chilly down here if that makes my friends in the Great White North...it is down to 60* F in the day and 30s* F at night....brrr

 

Are there any other brands of clutches out there i should look at other than BMW oem?

 

if i tear it apart i will change the disc at the very least if not the whole thing. It is a chunk of money, but i hate doing a job and trying to a buck then have to end up redoing the job and spending more bucks in the end. Replace all possible offending parts the first time is my motto....

 

RBr is in so cal maybe if i go there in person i can get them to find one in stock...

Again if there were a rear crank or front trans seal leak would it leak enough to hurt the clutch and NOT drip on the ground? (or actually inside the fairing)

 

 

[Jeepster]

Again if there were a rear crank or front trans seal leak would it leak enough to hurt the clutch and NOT drip on the ground? (or actually inside the fairing)

From what I have heard and seen very few crankshaft or input seal leaks actually appear on the outside of the engine/trans.

The oil/lube is absorbed by the clutch dust in the "bell housing".

If you pull your starter and use a good light and mirror you should be able to determine if you have a leak by how moist it is in there.

But to be positive you have to put the tail in the air and pull the trans.

[kmac]

How come {is that even english?} the answers we want the least are often the answers we get!

 

Thanks guys.

 

Still curious about clutch options...?

[dan cata]

You can put new ferodo on your old friction disc. Available at auto stores for like 7$. The thickness is bigger than the 6 mm OEM friction plate, and you will have to compensate that with washers under the 6 mounting bolts. So if the final thickness is 8 mm, you will have to add a 2 mm thick washer under each of the 6 mounting screws

 

Dan.

[Paul Mihalka]

"RBr is in so cal maybe if i go there in person i can get them to find one in stock..."

 

If you go please let us know what you find!

 

[awagnon]

Hey, Kmac,

 

If you can, get a copy of the DVD showing a clutch replacement on an 1100RT. A picture is worth a 1000 words, and a video is better. Let me know if you can't find it. You shouldn't have to replace the entire clutch assembly ( housing, pressure plate, etc. ), just the actual clutch plate. However, if you have to remove the clutch housing to replace the rear engine crank shaft seal, that's a bear and you should use new bolts on re-assembly. Good luck.

[NonComp]

My '96 clutch was worn down to the rivets when I got the bike at 60k miles. But when I split the bike to change the clutch, I also found that the rear seal on the gearbox input shaft was leaking. Oil can travel up the pushrod and contaminate the disk plate.

 

Mine had not gotten to that point yet. Later 1100's have a felt disk that was added to to the clutch pushrod to prevent oil from travelling up the shaft. By my '96 didn't have that felt disk.

[kmac]

I think that if i gotta tear the whole rearend apart to do a disc, and the disc cost $150 ish, and i can get the RBR for $325 and includes the neccesary bolts and stuff too, i think that would be a cheap investment. I think also if i have to get in there, i will also change both of the seals.

[NonComp]

On well worn 1100 clutches, I have read that it is best to change the entire assembly, rather than the just the friction disk, because the pressure plate wears asymetrically and can cause premature wear on the new friction disk if not change. However, that's probably not a major issue on your bike at that mileage.

 

There are 5 seals on the gearbox. I changed them all, but I split the case to do it. Apparently, it is possible to change the rear seal on the input shaft without splitting the case (from the outside) on an M94 gearbox.

 

Depending on when your bike was built, you may have either an M94 or an M97 gearbox. You can look up the serial number to find out. If it is an M94, it may have the problem of skipping out of 2nd gear under strong acceleration. If the gearbox is out anyway, and if you are interested, you can have the gearset undercut to bring it up to M97 specs. I wish I had done this when I did my clutch, because I ended up splitting the bike again the next year to do this.

 

The result is a much nicer shifting gearbox.

[flars]

"...You shouldn't have to replace the entire clutch assembly ( housing, pressure plate, etc. ), just the actual clutch plate..."

Unfortunately, this ain't necessarily true. BMW changed the clutch assembly in 12/98, and you will probably not find anyone with a friction plate that fits with the old style assembly.

Fortunately, the 'tail in the air' isn't difficult, only time consuming. BTW - if you have to pull the clutch housing ('flywheel'), an air gun is your friend cuz them puppies is on there with some serious torque.

I have heard of the RBR clutch plates, but have never heard of anyone who actually used them on a BMW. There are some guys over on advrider.com that have put ceramic plates in their GSeseses. A search over there would be helpful.

[dan cata]

@kmak, if you do decide to only replace the friction plate and put new ferodo material on your old plate, assuming that the splines on it are looking good, let me know. They sell ferodo plates and rivets over here for about 7$

 

Dan.

[kmac]

Wow, thanx guys. I dont think i will just replace the disc. My experience with builing race VWs is if one goes, the other may be the cause...it is time and overall cost effective to just do them both and be done with it. For now im gonna keep riding it until it just slips too much, but for now, as long as i dont hammer it or tap the clutch to gain rpms like you do on a dirt bike it seem not too bad. If i make sure the clutch is fully engaged before i give it too much throttle and i ride between 3500 and 7000 rpms it is manageable. So i gonna save up for now and get as much use out of this one, but i know its coming.

RE: Dan Cata...wow you guys re-rivet your own clutches over there? That is really cool, a little scarry on the balancing and getting the shape right without a lathe or mill but very cool that you do it.

 

I really hope i can find RBR can supply me one. We will see. They are near my Folks house. I will see if i can get them to send Paul his set...LOL...right after i get mine