Gear to wear!

[yabadabapal]

Wearing the right gear is one of the best insurance policies a rider can invest in. So I would like to know what you folks are wearing and using for you insurance and safety. Whats the best protection for asphalt skiing on you ass. Leathers or aerostitch cordura nylon, or sewn in plastic armor plates. What about hands and fingers, what kind of gloves. Just as a point of reference, if a fully dressed and geared MC rider and a fully dressed NFL football players each have identical accidents at the same speed and impact, who will come out better in the end. What do ya think.

By the way, Happy thanksgiving and ride safe or dont ride at all this holiday season.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Not much question for pavement surfing, an armored leather suit with back, hip, chest and c-spine protection. All those road racers can't be wrong. In fact, in contemplation of a couple of track days next year, I just dropped about $2K on some new protective gear.

 

Around town, a bunch less. Speeds are lower, chances of a crash higher but, typically it is jeans, boots, gloves, armored perforated jacket (It was 82 this afternoon) and, of course, helmet.

 

On long trips, I have a couple of two piece textile suit options and tend to wear/carry multiple gloves as well as my normal riding boots. For the most part, this has kept me safe enough.

 

NFL guy is not gonna do well in comparison. Impact is usually not much of a problem. The slide and tumble is gonna beat him up.

[Survived-til-now]

Not much question for pavement surfing, an armored leather suit with back, hip, chest and c-spine protection. All those road racers can't be wrong. In fact, in contemplation of a couple of track days next year, I just dropped about $2K on some new protective gear.

 

Around town, a bunch less. Speeds are lower, chances of a crash higher but, typically it is jeans, boots, gloves, armored perforated jacket (It was 82 this afternoon) and, of course, helmet.

 

On long trips, I have a couple of two piece textile suit options and tend to wear/carry multiple gloves as well as my normal riding boots. For the most part, this has kept me safe enough.

 

NFL guy is not gonna do well in comparison. Impact is usually not much of a problem. The slide and tumble is gonna beat him up.

 

I am not sure you are entirely correct about racing leathers being superior to textiles any longer - not at road speeds. Isn't part of the reason racers wear leathers down to wind resistance and the fact that the much higher speeds often involve a prolonged contact with the tarmac....

 

In normal riding conditions the new texiles such as Armacor/Cordura 700 reinforced with Kevlar etc are now pretty much on a par with leather and then practicalities such as comfort and weatherproofing come into the equation.

 

Just as their are various grades of cordura and other textiles, the same applies to leather and the majority of leathers around are not the same as professional racing leathers at all. We have a leather motorcycle clothing specialist nearby whose party-trick for customers is to hand out two seemingly identical pieces of leather and to then rip one bit apart with bare hands - just to show the difference between cheap leather and the real McCoy.

 

For my touring/commuting its either Hein Gericke Streetline touring leather trousers and a Master III jacket or BMW's Streetguard Suit.

[Mike05]

 

Copied the list below from the article “Save Your Hide Guide ” by Wayne Boyer posted on his (owner/operator) MotorPort web site. I'm a big fan of MotorPort Kevlar products, both in terms of maximum protection & breathability in hot weather. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

 

Can't attest to accuracy but wanted to share the numbers anyway.

 

 

Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers

Product / Material

Pounds of force until fabric tears

Abrasion cycles until fabric fails

 

 

CottonJeans: 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure

 

70 Denier Standard Nylon: 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure

 

500 Denier Polyester: 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure

 

200 Denier Standard Nylon: 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure

 

500 Denier Cordura: 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure

 

620 Denier Cordura: 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure

 

NEW Competition Grade Leather: 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure

 

1000 Denier Cordura: 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure

 

Air Mesh Kevlar: 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

 

Stretch Kevlar Blend: 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

 

 

Interesting stuff.

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

There is a bunch more to leather than just tear resistance, although it excels at that. One of the big things is heat transmission. My last crash was a 70+ mph high side on concrete. I was wearing a pretty good Cordura suit, 600 denier as I recall. The suit did its job although it was destroyed in the process. No abrasion to my skin and the armor more or less protected me from the impacts resulting from the tumble. I slid/tumbled more than 200 feet from the initial impact point.

 

I did suffer a couple of broken ribs and 2 areas, one on my right knee about 3 in^2 and one on my right forearm a little smaller, of pretty serious burns where the material had melted and got my skin through the liner of the jacket/pants. Not saying it couldn't have happened with leather but it has not been my experience which includes a 120 mph getoff at a drag strip over 30 years ago. I didn't walk away from that one (2 broken ankles) but no damage to my skin.

 

I know of no sanctioning body involved in motorcycle racing that permits anything but leather except maybe some schools and track day organizations that will permit textile at the lower levels.

 

ps: Don't see many textile suits on the MotoGP grid and those guys don't have to pay for their stuff.

[yabadabapal]

Great Info and thanks. Are most injuries broken bones due to initial impact or are they injuries due to sliding on a hard surface resulting in burns and loss of skin tissue. I wonder if I can find some mathematical breakdown on injury percentages. With that information, I might be able to come up with some ideas.

 

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

In my experience and from watching any number of crash videos, sliding is very much preferable to tumbling. In a low side crash, where the rider has a bit of time to compose himself, you'll very often see them get into an upside down beetle position and slide along on their backs. When you get sideways to the direction of travel, tumbling gets involved and trust me, you cannot hold your extremities in tight to the body. This is where hands, ankles and the lower portion of the legs/arms get beat up and likely broken. You can get some pretty good RPM's going.

 

Initial impact from say a high side or hitting an object with different momentum is where the major stuff (backs, ribs and sternum, upper legs and arms) gets busted up. That hump on the back of a race suit is not just for aerodynamic advantage, it keeps the neck from being stretched all the way back resulting in a severe c-spine injury.

 

 

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

Very good information Ed.

 

It brings back some old memories and almost makes me think of taking the bus!

 

 

[Survived-til-now]

Ed - I remember your post - really glad you were alive to write about it!

 

Perhaps your experience prompted you to go for some top quality leathers and I have no arguement with you there at all. But the majority of members reading these posts won't run to 2K leathers and they will do the majority of their riding on roads and at speeds far less than those on a track.

 

My point therefore, is that today textiles compare very well to leather and this one area where it is really important to understand the quality issues. Over here we have a CE quality mark that is supposed to mean something but some manufacturers have abused the mark so that the stamp is meaningless. They do this by inserting CE approved protectors but the rest of the garment is either not covered by a standard or there is not a CE standard for say - stitching. You can pay a lot for total rubbish that will fall apart in the first tumble... or the leather is not the right quality etc.. It pays to study the manufacturers literature and see exactly what they are selling, safety tests etc - that is why I pay a lot for BMW gear but Hein Gerike is to the same standard and a fraction of the cost.

 

You made the point about Cordura 600 but things have moved on and there's now a new Schoeller fabric re-inforced with Kevlar...

 

For those who do not do track days and who need to be a bit more practical in day to day wear - I suggest a good textile suit made on one of the newer fabrics and re-inforced with Kevlar (but even there - beware the manufacturers that put a tiny bit of Kevlar onto the garment and then brazenly claim its a Kevlar suit!!).

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Andy,

I don't dispute that some of the newer textile suits can rival a good quality leather suit. In fact, with the options available on some, such as waterproof liners, extra insulation and some pretty good venting, they make for a better choice for the street or touring rider. I have two such, one is Triumph branded the other, Olympia. To my mind, their options, for the street and touring rider, outweigh the safety compromise when compared to a full on race suit.

 

Yes, also, to the need to shop and compare features on that race suit. There is some real crap out there and the uneducated, who may be shopping on price alone, can easily be fooled. There is also a lot of very good gear, from top line manufacturers that is available at reasonable price. I'm quite pleased with my mid-line Alpinstar suit. The 2K had not very much to do with the suit, actually. Sidi Vertigo vented boots, a Shark helmet and a 2 pair of Alpinstar gloves ate up a whole bunch of it. Add in such things as tear offs for the helmet, liners for the suit, a bag to haul it all in and most of the 2K was gone before I dropped the $1300 for the suit.

 

Note to self, stop adding up what you are spending, it is depressing.

[notacop]

Leathers are great, for as long as you maintain the weight to fit into them, same with Aerostitch. As pricey as good stuff is, it's a real bother to eat your way out of them.

2 sets of leathers hanging around for a weight loss program. 1 2- piece stitch getting tight. 1 set Darien still a go.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I have the opposite problem, having lost 120 odd pounds in the last 2 years. All my XL and most of the L stuff is now in storage. Even my drag race leathers are loose on me now.

[4wheeldog]

I lost that much as well.......Lost 80, then lost the same 20 twice since. But I am still and XL.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

I have the opposite problem, having lost 120 odd pounds in the last 2 years. All my XL and most of the L stuff is now in storage. Even my drag race leathers are loose on me now.

Ed,

Sell the extra uber-sized gear. Then you'll have an additional incentive to keep the weight off. That weight loss has probably added years to your life anyhow so it's paid for the new gear you needed to buy.

[Twisties]

Beware of Polyester Thread

 

Some good info here. Remember, there is more to safety than purely crash protection. This link has a pretty broad discussion.

 

[Penforhire]

I wear textiles (Motoport 2 pc Cordura) because I will wear them more often than even vented leather. I live where it is hot more than cold. Consider that in your equation. I agree that if I ever pavement luge I'd arther be wearing 3+ mm of dead cow but I don't see that as practical.

[yabadabapal]

One of things I worked on about 5 years ago for fun was my idea for a blow up suit. I used a sealed suit concept with CO2 cartridges and a string attached to a bicycle. When you fall of the bike, the string pulls the release and the suit inflates. It failed miserably because I didnt have the resources to follow through. But I know that other companies who have the resources are now doing this and I wonder how it performs in pavement sliding as a means of insulating against burns and high speed body rolls in hopes of preventing broken bones.

[nrp]

I've been on blood thinner for 15 years & still touring despite what the doc says. Leather for me if at all practical. Mine's old HG bibs etc without crash pads, but never needed them fortunately. Maybe I should upgrade sometime.......

[ratfink]

Good leathers can be altered some as one shrinks and grows.

 

Langlitz has altered mine through plus or minus of twenty lbs. or so.

 

I don't know if this is possible with most textiles or even worthwhile.

[notacop]

A Thong Speedo and good riding skills. Any body can over dress for all occasions. Takes a rugged individual to stand at the front of the pack!

[Survived-til-now]

One of things I worked on about 5 years ago for fun was my idea for a blow up suit. I used a sealed suit concept with CO2 cartridges and a string attached to a bicycle. When you fall of the bike, the string pulls the release and the suit inflates. It failed miserably because I didnt have the resources to follow through. But I know that other companies who have the resources are now doing this and I wonder how it performs in pavement sliding as a means of insulating against burns and high speed body rolls in hopes of preventing broken bones.

 

There have been suits incorporating air-bag technology for some years and I have a Hit-Air Vest. Abrasion protection comes from the suit not the air-bag bit and my vest is worn over a textile jacket. The deployed airbags are only there to cushion the impact and would quickly abrade through....

[Survived-til-now]

A Thong Speedo and good riding skills. Any body can over dress for all occasions. Takes a rugged individual to stand at the front of the pack!

 

I think I mentioned before in a post that Bike magazine sent its staffers out in the nude to see how that affected their riding skills - why they were not arrested is anybody's guess but they didn't seem to have anything on!

 

Funny thing but their riding style became more defensive and the speed dropped - a bit.

 

 

Often wondered how the Daytona Week girls pictured in thongs on the back of Harleys would fare if they came off......

[tallman]

You turn steak into hamburger by grinding it.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

A Thong Speedo and good riding skills. Any body can over dress for all occasions. Takes a rugged individual to stand at the front of the pack!

Please promise us you won't post your picture in this outfit!

[notacop]

A nice thong never slowed Rollie Free down.....

[Nice n Easy Rider]

A nice thong never slowed Rollie Free down.....

OK - but only if you wear it at Bonneville!

[johngugel]

If you have been following the weather in Florida lately you know it is cold! I was walking yesterday morning when a guy on a Harley rode by wearing shorts! He did have a "protective" stocking cap on!

 

Ride well & warm!

[Martyn]

If you have been following the weather in Florida lately you know it is cold! I was walking yesterday morning when a guy on a Harley rode by wearing shorts! He did have a "protective" stocking cap on!

 

Ride well & warm!

 

What do you call "cold" in Florida ?

[Matts_12GS]

If you have been following the weather in Florida lately you know it is cold! I was walking yesterday morning when a guy on a Harley rode by wearing shorts! He did have a "protective" stocking cap on!

 

Ride well & warm!

 

What do you call "cold" in Florida ?

 

It was 34F when I left for work this morning... I think that still counts as cold.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

29 in JAX on Monday morning, I know damn well that that is cold.

[Fubar]

A Thong Speedo and good riding skills. Any body can over dress for all occasions. Takes a rugged individual to stand at the front of the pack!

That is a mental image I did not need!

[Fubar]

There have been suits incorporating air-bag technology for some years and I have a Hit-Air Vest. Abrasion protection comes from the suit not the air-bag bit and my vest is worn over a textile jacket. The deployed airbags are only there to cushion the impact and would quickly abrade through....

I think this would be a really good idea for a collar to prevent neck injuries.

[Edmun Santos]

I seen a guy get off bike on the track, He was wearing air vest.He slid about 75' before he got into the kitty litter and his Safer Moto vest held up well. The vest includes neck protection as well. Sounds like yabadabapal had a hit! Oh the rider was in good shape as well. The bike was fixable.

[Tonopah]

For commuting to and from work I wear a one piece aerostich roadcrafter with a Hit-Air vest. For weekend riding and touring I wear an aerostich Transit leather pants and jacket, also with a Hit-Air vest.

 

The downside of the Hit-Air is that I think I'd tumble more and slide less. The upside is protection for the ribs, back, neck and internal organs.

 

Everything is a trade off.

[VTBeemer]

Old subject chain that I was catching up on. I agree with most of the info on leathers, but the third bullet below talks about reinforcement with the "1680 Denier Ballistic Polyester in the impact areas" and fourth bullet with the reflective piping and patches always sealed it. As said earlier - one of the trade offs in life. Have both leathers and TourMaster jackets and the TourMaster fabric garb wins 9 out of 10 riding days. But agree the 'mesh only' part of the jacket is near useless.

 

TourMaster Flex Series 2 Jacket

• Converts easily from a 600 Denier Carbolex® shell to an Armor-Link Mesh shell and vice-versa.

• Water-resistant outer jacket incorporates waterproof zippered shoulder vents.

• 1680 Denier Ballistic Polyester in the impact areas provides exceptional protection and abrasion resistance.

• 360º Phoslite® reflective piping and Tour Master’s signature reflective rear triangle help increase nighttime visibility.

 

[Pilgrim]

One of things I worked on about 5 years ago for fun was my idea for a blow up suit. I used a sealed suit concept with CO2 cartridges and a string attached to a bicycle. When you fall of the bike, the string pulls the release and the suit inflates. It failed miserably because I didnt have the resources to follow through. But I know that other companies who have the resources are now doing this and I wonder how it performs in pavement sliding as a means of insulating against burns and high speed body rolls in hopes of preventing broken bones.

 

I have this vision...

 

Hit the pavement and the suit inflates. You then bounce down the highway like a free-ranging basketball, being shunted from truck bumper to motorhome wall to car windshield and finally off into the weeds where a broken beer bottle punctures the suit and you really take off for parts unknown.

 

Pilgrim

[yabadabapal]

One of things I worked on about 5 years ago for fun was my idea for a blow up suit. I used a sealed suit concept with CO2 cartridges and a string attached to a bicycle. When you fall of the bike, the string pulls the release and the suit inflates. It failed miserably because I didnt have the resources to follow through. But I know that other companies who have the resources are now doing this and I wonder how it performs in pavement sliding as a means of insulating against burns and high speed body rolls in hopes of preventing broken bones.

 

I have this vision...

 

Hit the pavement and the suit inflates. You then bounce down the highway like a free-ranging basketball, being shunted from truck bumper to motorhome wall to car windshield and finally off into the weeds where a broken beer bottle punctures the suit and you really take off for parts unknown.

 

Pilgrim

 

Thats terrific and the true story of life.

We need to put that in the instruction manual under the heading

(good things that might happen under bad situations)

You got me laughing!