Help! 1100rt ain't happy!

November 9, 2005

Unexcusable, unbelievable, and indefensible. You're out time and money, you FIXED the bike yourself, and the main concern of this Dealer is that HIS feelings may be hurt? This dealer obviously doesn't have to fight very hard for business. I really don't care if you were a raving maniac while on-site, it is HIS, and his DEALERSHIP's responsibility to behave professionally and courteously, not yours. That's why you are called the "customer". "The customer is always right".

Scott, you are absolutely 100% right. Wedgeman, keep a level head but stand up for yourself. You have nothing to lose here, at least stand up for what is right. I can excuse shoddy work, but this kind of lack of respect needs to be rewarded with the appropriate action.

beno

November 9, 2005

He's blaming you, the customer, for picking up the bike early.

I understood that part and thought it was reasonable. Once they got in there and figured out what the problem actually was, they wouldn't bill him for that time. Since they never found the cause of the problem, they have little choice but to bill the customer for the hours that they spent.

But where does that end? If an owner judges a dealer's repair efforts to be unproductive at what point is he allowed to stop the process? Does he have to wait for an incompetent mechanic to pour endless hours of time (and potentially be on the hook for the charges) in to an effort? It would seem that at some point it is quite reasonable for the owner to call it quits. Where that point is would always be debatable and abuses can occur in either direction, but probably the best way for a dealer to prevent an owner from taking this kind of action is to be competent enough to instill some kind of confidence in the customer. In this case they couldn't, and no wonder.

November 9, 2005

But where does that end? If an owner judges a dealer's repair efforts to be unproductive at what point is he allowed to stop the process? Does he have to wait for an incompetent mechanic to pour endless hours of time (and potentially be on the hook for the charges) in to an effort? It would seem that at some point it is quite reasonable for the owner to call it quits. Where that point is would always be debatable and abuses can occur in either direction, but probably the best way for a dealer to prevent an owner from taking this kind of action is to be competent enough to instill some kind of confidence in the customer.

Well, this particular dealership has told me numerous times that I was welcome to come pick up the machine at any point.

I don't deny that I should be liable for all work done (if I elect to pick up a machine before it is finished).. It's just the "AFTER-THE-FACT" information/problems we found that made me feel a refund is justified...

November 9, 2005

I'm with Seth. I work with complex electrical circuits and fancy electronics on a day in day out basis. I don't trouble shoot down to component level very often as my company is billing the customer $150 and hour or more and it's just easier to replace suspect boards. We have long had a policy for our technicians to follow that if you don't have the answer to a problem after 4 hours, you either have misdiagnosed the problem or you don't know what your looking at. GET HELP.

There are a basic set of procedures to follow from verifying power to signal returns to wire pull tests. Any competent technician should have found the results of his own screw up here in less than an hour. That he didn't speaks poorly for him. That they took weeks speaks poorly for their procedures. I wouldn't mind being billed for 4 hours of labor to diagnose the problem if they found something and they did (bad Hall sensor). I would mind like hell paying for the damage done by their tech and any time required to diagnose that.

In Wedgeman's shoes, I would certainly be looking for another dealer. I think the current guy has made appropriate adjustment but, unless he gets another technician, I would cease doing business with him.

November 12, 2005

Wedgeman, any update?

Curious to see what happens

cheers

beno

November 16, 2005

The current news is.... no news..

I haven't seen any money from the dealer.. At midnight tonight the credit card charges come due.

Knowing this I emailed him this morning, and got "we had to special order your bolts, and the check is coming separately". Supposedly it's being done.

I'm going to give them until next week, but if things don't change, it's gonna get ugly fast. I'm sick of smelling bull everywhere...

The most annoying thing to me is that my bike is not right.. EVERY time I get on the bike I throw my leg over three scratches which were NOT on the bike when I got it..

Since I commute on the bike I've not had a lot of time to get it all resolved.. The timing isn't right--I'm certain.. It has plenty of oil, but it sounds like it's knocking at 5k+ up.. I was told this is a timing issue.. Any quick/easy ways to set timing without a 3 hour project?? I'm beyond swamped right now (which is why I took this to the dealer in the first place)....

November 16, 2005

So,

I had posted the reply above earliier this evening (still at work)..

Goot home, nice little bubblebag from said dealer.. bags of screws...

now If they'll just refund me the $$$, I can take the bike somewhere and get it fixed.. Or fix it myself..

Onliine manual for setting timing on the HAL?

November 16, 2005

So,

I had posted the reply above earliier this evening (still at work)..

Goot home, nice little bubblebag from said dealer.. bags of screws...

now If they'll just refund me the $$$, I can take the bike somewhere and get it fixed.. Or fix it myself..

Onliine manual for setting timing on the HAL?

Yep,

Same answer I gave you on advrider.......

http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

page 15.

HTH

Mick

November 16, 2005

Yep,

Same answer I gave you on advrider.......

http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

page 15.

oooops

thx for the reminder..

Say.. you don't feel like popping by for a quick "how-to", do you?

November 16, 2005

Yep,

Same answer I gave you on advrider.......

http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

page 15.

oooops

thx for the reminder..

Say.. you don't feel like popping by for a quick "how-to", do you?

I would if you were closer. 1,949.5 miles from your place to mine.

Mick

November 18, 2005

Hear ye, Hear ye....

Said dealership in question delivered to my house this morning, promised check to refund my labor as per their offer.

No apologies or offers to help--but they DID refund the labor beyond 2 hours...

So.. I guess things are settled..

They never did anything about the chips and scratches on my tupperware, which will serve as a reminder to me to never take my bike near their shop, ever again.

November 18, 2005

When I replaced my HES, I just tried to put it back the same place I got it from and called it good. However, lately I've realized that my bike NEVER pings and I wonder if perhaps I'm down a little on HP. both could be a symptom of late timing. So I'm thinking of checking mine. However, I don't have time right now to build a test unit. But I remember a thread here where it was discussed that you can use the fuel pump to time the bike. Fuel pump????

Yes, the fuel pump runs when you turn the key on for about 1-3 seconds. Then it stops. As soon as you start turning the bike over the motronic sees and HES signal and starts the fuel pump again. So use the same procedure: IIRC: loosen the HES, rotate counterclockwise. With the key on rotate HES clockwise slowly until the fuel pump starts. This should be your timing location. I would do it a few times to make sure I got it right. Tighten and reassemble. Ride. Fill gastank. Repeat.

Cheers,

Jerry

November 18, 2005

Jerry,

I'm not so sure that would really work, unless your engine HAPPENED to stop at TDC or 180D off...

Mick??

November 18, 2005

I think you need to post the name of the dealer - after all - none of us would want to have our bike worked on by him. I'm worried - you might be using the same dealer that I could be taking my bike to geographically we are close.

You were more than understanding - if it was me I would want to get paid for my time. When I hire some one do work for me I don't anticipate to be involved in the situation beyond paying for well done job. All the hassle you went through - your bike should have been returned to you with $0 due, cleaned and waxed and an apology for talking this long.

Who are the losers???

Mark

November 18, 2005

Jerry,

I'm not so sure that would really work, unless your engine HAPPENED to stop at TDC or 180D off...

Mick??

I'm here.....

Before you try that quickie adjustment, you have to lock the engine at TDC OR make sure you are at TDC by looking at the timing mark on the flywheel (OT). Since you have to take the plastic off anyway, why not do it right?

Mick

November 18, 2005

I think you need to post the name of the dealer - after all - none of us would want to have our bike worked on by him. I'm worried - you might be using the same dealer that I could be taking my bike to geographically we are close.
You were more than understanding - if it was me I would want to get paid for my time. When I hire some one do work for me I don't anticipate to be involved in the situation beyond paying for well done job. All the hassle you went through - your bike should have been returned to you with $0 due, cleaned and waxed and an apology for talking this long.

Who are the losers???

I am with Mark.

Glad that you had some degree of satisfaction and that you don't have to go the legal route. I think you should post the name, not as revenge but as a service to other BMW owners.

cheers

beno

November 20, 2005

So... This chapter of my nightmare brought to you courtesy of "Timing Hell"...

As has been mentioned, my bike wasn't running right.. Sounds like the valves are rattling all the time, even though the dealer says they never touched the valves. It would run, but a bit roughly...

Mick tells me to make sure the timing isn't screwed up (the dealer says they had to set it "manually"), so following his wise counsel, I got the stuff together today to do so..

I ran by Radio Shack and bought the appropriate stuff to build my own HAL sensor box.. EXCELLENT stuff from some ADVRider.. ....

So, I made my box.. not quite as sophisticated as his--I did the exact build but didnt' put on the fancy labels (mainly cause I was having trouble with a network printer today and didn't want to spend the time getting it working when I could be getting the bike fixed)...

so... Nothing left but to rip the bike down and set the timing..

So I go to town.. pull off the tank and got out the harness (with it's chopped off cover and ziplock'd bag still intact)...

Hooked up the HAL box to the sensor harness, and found TDC..

I'd stopped by Lowes to pick up a square U-bolt for my own TDC Mandrel (see the same site with instructions for this .... Lowes didn't have any Ubolts in 3/8" size, so I just bought a 5" long eyebolt ($.69 instead of $4.50 for the Ubolt).

The angle came courtesy of a big mallet...

My security tape comes courtesy of the USPS, who happened to have left me with an extra roll of Priority Mail tape (which is useless for taping boxes, but does a tolerable job of looking hideous enough to grab one's attention)...

So, I put the bolt in the crank, and double-checked the TDC mark on the flywheel.. Spot-on...

Hook up the harness to my test box.. light on... hmm.. Loosen up the HAL sensor, and move it around.. Can't find any point where it'll turn off the TDC light.. nowhere in the region...

I grab the wrench, pull my bolt out, and start wiggling the crank around to find it.. I found it.. About 5degrees off of TDC, I get the light out.. WTF??

I adjusted the HAL as FAR as it will go.. No luck... I started scratching my head..Then I remembered that the dealer said they couldnt' set timing right either. ("we had to set the timing manually"). Having figured that if they fooged up the wiring harness, they might have fooged up the cranshaft or something.. So I started taking it apart..

Loosened up the alternator and pulled the belt.. Then loosened the crank pulley, and popped it off. Here's what I found..

I know the pic is a bit fuzzy, but does something look a bit wrong here?? First, The bell is no longer connected to the pulley. AND, the bell is NOT centered on the crank.. In fact, it's racked on sideways, and not even rotating in a circle. It looked as if it had been pushed onto the crankshaft without being lined up.. The inside of the bell has been scraping against the HAL sensors while rotating, because it's not centered.

Here's what the bell looks like after being removed.

[i dunno if you call it a bell or what, but that's what I call it]..

This was about 4:20pm... I was pissed..This is why the bike wouldn't take proper timing and obviously why it's been running off since I got it back together. Since I'd never pulled the pulley off, it had to have been the dealership who fooged it up--they had put the new HAL on, but why on earth handn't they bothered to put it together properly???

So I called the dealership.. of course the Service Manager was in, but he didn't want to talk to me--only said I'd have to call back Tuesday to get the Ops Mgr... :baldy

So... I'm beyond pissed. had to leave the bike in pieces in my shop.. Fortunately I've got space in the warehouse now, so it's not a crisis.. But I was going to take a long ride this weekend... Damnit..... :baldy

Hopefully the dealership is going to replace the bell on Tuesday. If not, I'm going to order anothher from a different dealership, and do a chargeback on the credit card for both the bell and for the fooged up wiring harness.

November 20, 2005

Mick tells me to make sure the timing isn't screwed up (the dealer says they had to set it "manually"), so following his wise counsel, I got the stuff together today to do so..

Wedge,

Glad you listened. It is hard to believe they even screwed that up. The part they destroyed this time is called the Timing Rotor. ROTOR P/N 12 14 1 342 853 http://tinyurl.com/aouhk

The dealer will just blame YOU for tearing up the part while you were working on the previous problem. I DO like the idea of having a talk with AmEx over the cost of the wiring and the rotor.

Mick

November 20, 2005

Wow. They broke just about everything they touched!!!! try beemerboneyard for one of these. They don't need to be replaced very often. This thread never fails to amaze me at the ammount of damage a bonehead can cause the awe me that they take no responsiblility.

And on my earlier post: yes, you have to set the engine at TDC before using the fuel pump timing method--just like any other timing method. Cheers, Jerry

November 20, 2005

Mick,

quick question for you.. I know the photo is fuzzy, but you might be able to tell that the ID of the hole in the rotor is LARGER than the crankshaft shoulder area.. So it doesn't just line up right and sit correctly..

I'm wondering--are there different SIZES of these rotors??? Anybody know?? Is there a chance that the dealer stuck a rotor from another bike on my bike, say, a Kbike rotor???

I just read the P/N off the Rotor (go back and look at the photo)...

the rotor part listed on the RealOEM.com site (you listed above) is 12141342853

The part on my bike is 12141341913

Is it possible that this rotor is the WRONG rotor for my bike?

November 20, 2005

Interesting question but I think there is only one size. Anyway HES units are all interchangeable as far as all the threads I've been reading indicate. BMW sometimes updates part numbers--perhaps the new ones have a different colored coating or something like that. I think it was rubbing because it was cocked when they didn't get the tab in the hole.

A closer look at your unit makes me think you could probably bend the little locater tab back carefully and if it didn't break of, you'd be back in business. It doesn't have to be perfect since you'll adjust the timing afterward anyway.

--Jerry

November 20, 2005

The '913 part number shows up on the old (2003) ETK disk for the R1100RT, the '853 number shows up on A&S and Max BMW's current online parts fiches. Probably the '853 number supercedes the original '913 part number. But they both appear to be the correct part for an R1100RT.

November 20, 2005

thx for the note.

So theoretically it COULD have been the original rotor--they just fooged it up by getting it on crooked and jamming it. Makes sense.

Well, look at the bright side.. Now I will have to know how to adjust the tension on mmy alternator belt! I'd never even SEEN the front end of this engine before all this started..

Hey, I'm glad I mentioned that... How do you do that? Is there some sort of mechanical gizmo, or are you supposed to just jam something under the alternator and push it up??

November 20, 2005

That rotor was/is used on ALL the Oilhead bikes. http://tinyurl.com/aqfpp Your bike (and probably mine since it's a very early production) had the earlier part number rotor.

Mick

November 20, 2005

Mick,

thx..

ONe more question for you. Any idea what the engine harness runs?

I found the part# on BMWOEM, but couldnt' find the part listed in Bob's catalog..

November 20, 2005

Mick,

thx..

ONe more question for you. Any idea what the engine harness runs?

I found the part# on BMWOEM, but couldnt' find the part listed in Bob's catalog..

Wedge,

61112306406 WIRE HARNESS S $672.50 List $538.00 your cost at chicagobmwmotorcycle.com Unlike the earlier bikes, I think the harness is one piece. No separate harness for the engine. I may be wrong.

Mick

November 20, 2005

Hey, I'm glad I mentioned that... How do you do that? Is there some sort of mechanical gizmo, or are you supposed to just jam something under the alternator and push it up??

Wedge,

There is an 'official' procedure in the manual and an 'unofficial' procedure that works great.

I use GoodYear Gatorback belts and tension them (using the left front bolt wtih the gear rack attached) till I can only twist the belt about 90 degrees midway between the top and bottom pulleys. It's not too critical but you don't want it so tight that it kills your alternator bearings. Loosening the bolts and sticking a large screwdriver wtih a short handle in there works too.

Mick

November 20, 2005

When I replaced my HES, I just tried to put it back the same place I got it from and called it good. However, lately I've realized that my bike NEVER pings and I wonder if perhaps I'm down a little on HP. both could be a symptom of late timing. So I'm thinking of checking mine. However, I don't have time right now to build a test unit. But I remember a thread here where it was discussed that you can use the fuel pump to time the bike. Fuel pump????

Yes, the fuel pump runs when you turn the key on for about 1-3 seconds. Then it stops. As soon as you start turning the bike over the motronic sees and HES signal and starts the fuel pump again. So use the same procedure: IIRC: loosen the HES, rotate counterclockwise. With the key on rotate HES clockwise slowly until the fuel pump starts. This should be your timing location. I would do it a few times to make sure I got it right. Tighten and reassemble. Ride. Fill gastank. Repeat.

Cheers,

Jerry

Jerry,

once I get my mess resolved here, I'll drop my test unit (aand a copy of the instructions) in the mail to you.. If this is of interest, just PM me your address, and when you're done with it, just ship it back...

November 21, 2005

Basically the tech/wrench decided that the water protector on the HAL sensor connector wasn't necessary, and since it slowed down his removal of the HAL sensor, he went at it with a knife.

nice job, eh?? Think he could've gotten it a LITTLE more jagged..

What a hammerhead that guy must be!

For the information of those who have occasion to run into the problem, let me point out that the technique to disconnect is to squeeze the plastic boot at the top of the connector, about where the top finger in the photo is. That will depress the releases on the connector and you can pull the plug apart.

And if (as was the case here) the boot has become stiff with age (as mine was today) a brief application of heat from a heat gun will soften it sufficiently to allow the squeeze. Just don't melt it, of course.

Now, to a question.

I'm checking my sensors tomorrow after I build a test box.

If they turn out OK and I have to go on to the wiring, and find that it must be replaced, is there any reason not to wrap it with foil, then wrap it over that with hi-temp insulating tape? I have no experience with the stuff.

Pilgrim

November 21, 2005

Wedge, my hat is off to you (as well as my hair) for your remarkable patience. I know that at this point you don't have any choice, but I do commend you on your approach to this. If it was me I would be screaming bloody murder. Please keep us posted, just when I thought this couldn't get any worse . . .

beno

November 21, 2005

I'm checking my sensors tomorrow after I build a test box.

If they turn out OK and I have to go on to the wiring, and find that it must be replaced, is there any reason not to wrap it with foil, then wrap it over that with hi-temp insulating tape? I have no experience with the stuff.

Pilgrim

Pilgrim,

If you are not having problems, why are you testing the HES?

As for wrapping the HES harness it with hi-temp tape, I don't believe that will work since we are dealing with limited space where the HES mounts.

If you are not having problems you have two choices, leave it alone or rebuild it BEFORE it strands you. If you pull the HES and start flexing the harness, you may cause a failure. The damage to the insulation happens right where the upper strain relief clamps the cable to the HES plate. You cannot see the damage until you slice the harness open.

Here is a good place for rebuild info: http://users.rcn.com/dehager/

I bought my replacement wire from these guys:

http://www.ba-electronics.com/nte-wire.htm#wt

I used the WT series high temp teflon insulated wire in 22ga. They can order the correct colors too.

Mick

November 21, 2005

Thanks for the reply, Mick.

Except for a brief spin in September, I hadn't ridden the thing in 18 months so I was pretty out of touch with it.

I started it up for a short run the other day and it felt kinda out of sorts, a slight roughness to the idle. TBs, etc, checked out, so I pulled the codes - and got one indicating a lower hall sensor problem. Since the problem is not a complete ignition failure, and since those HESs work or they don't, I figure the problem is likely in the wiring.

Someone once observed that I have worn out more bikes with wrenches than I ever have with throttles (I'm in a program to get over the syndrome, but it ain't working). Because I'd never done it before, and because I have the tupperware off anyway (fixed a nonfunctional windshield levitator) I pulled the HES assembly. I didn't bother testing it while still on the bike.

As you note, the existing wiring path would be pretty tight for a tape-wrapped harness, but I'm not wedded to the existing path if I don't need to be; it can be run other ways.

I may try using the gutted coax trick, I'm mulling it over, but it may have its own problems, such as heat sensitivity - typical Radio Shack coax may not be up to the job over the long term.

Thanks for the tip on a source for wire, I may need it.

But first, I'm overdue for a trip to Boeing surplus sales. You can pick up some pretty interesting stuff there from time to time. I got enough teflon insulated wire there once to make a complete harness for a custom scooter I was building. That made the neatest, smallest wiring package I've ever seen.

Pilgrim

edit: I was working from the Dehager site - he did a helluva job on that. I made the locking mandrel out of some steel rod stock I had laying around.

November 21, 2005

I may try using the gutted coax trick, I'm mulling it over, but it may have its own problems, such as heat sensitivity - typical Radio Shack coax may not be up to the job over the long term.

I've rewired a few of them and have always been able to reuse the existing sheath. Leave the ground shield (drain) wire in the sheath when you pull the old wires out. Leave ONE wire in the old sheath and attach the 4 new wires to that existing wire. Wrap them tightly and solder them to the existing wire.

Lightly lube the new wires with some silicone grease and they slide in nicely. A little heat applied to the sheath helps too. I doubt the coax sheath would have the temperature rating you need unless you can find some fancy MIL spec stuff at the Boeing store. I used to leave near the one in Burbank (Skunk Works) and loved going through that store.

Mick

PS Pretty nice hijack of Wedgemans thread.

November 22, 2005

Guess who's gonna be in my town tomorrow?

The shop OWNER... Just got a call from him and since he owns a Land Rover dealership about 4 miles from my shop, I'm gonna swing by & have coffee with him in the afternoon.

That should be fun..

I just finished packing up my old HES with a little (SHORT!) cover letter, and shipping it off to the dealer.. they'll get it in the morning.

Also sent an explanation letter back to the Ops Mgr that I couldn't use the HES, and since I already ordered another rotor (bell gizmo) and HES, I was returning this one for a refund. He ain't gonna be happy...

Oh.... Learned something else fun today about the RT... It's a REAL PAIN IN THE A$$ to get the HES wire snaked down thru the right area.

November 22, 2005

The shop OWNER... Just got a call from him and since he owns a Land Rover dealership about 4 miles from my shop, I'm gonna swing by & have coffee with him in the afternoon.

Can I come? Pleeeease? I might learn something from you Wedge.

beno

November 22, 2005

Can I come? Pleeeease? I might learn something from you Wedge.
beno

no way dude... I hear yoooze guyz gots da flu bug up der in the north country, eh?? Don't want nnooona dat stuff..

November 23, 2005

As was mentioned, I had an appointment today wiht the shop owner.. NOTE: I'm 90+ miles from the shop--he just "happens" to own an auto dealership about 4 miles from my office, and was in town today...

Rolled by & met with the guy.. He is quite the interesting dude. Owns a small kingdom of high-end import dealerships around the southeast.

He's a biker as well, actually started this dealership 20+yrs ago, after his own love affair with airheads... Apparently a lot more money than I'd imagined.. For kicks he was in Germany when they released the K1200s, and did the track day there with all the big wigs....

Anyway, we had a great little chat. I laid out the situation, and included nearly a full ream of paper of printouts (printed out both this thread), as well as a handful of emails that I'd sent to the dealership. He was extremely impressed with this site for several reasons--had never heard of it before, but will certainly grace these pages someday....

He was most apologetic, and we chatted for some time about customer service and how you deal with unhappy customers..

He seemed pretty suprised at this set of issues, saying this was NOT the norm, that he had far fewer customer service issues with the bike dealership than with any of his car dealership,and he felt this was due to the personal interest in bikes held by the guys at this shop.

He explained some of the changes they've been undergoing there, with the parts mgr (who's a really great guy) being called up to active military, and they've been filling in behind him for over a year, and having recently opened up another "cheap" bike imports shop nearby which is causing them to have to split their focus.. But he's actually going BACK to the bike shop tomorrow to undertake changes to help maintain the shop priorities. I think he understands the customer service issues at stake, and is taking proactive steps to deal with them.

I was pleasantly suprised that he was as open to discussing issues as it turned out to be.

He offered to have his shop:

come tomorrow morning and pickup my bike (90+miles away)
bring a loaner bike when they come (they don't even have a loaner program)
repair my bike completely
return my bike to me
refund my costs completely

He asked if I'd be willing to let them do this. I figured it wouldn't be a bad route, since I already had the bike stripped, I'll be out of town for 6 days this weekend and won't need the bike anyway, and what the heck, it'd be nice to ride something newer than a 10yr old bike for a change. So they're sending a truck in the morning to pickup my bike..

So.. is it resolved?? well, not yet.. But let's just say the owner has pretty well restored my faith in what a BMW dealership is supposed to be about. And I hope by a week from now it'll be completely resolved..

November 23, 2005

That's great news! (possibly)

I read stories like this and it makes me realize I'm pretty blessed to have Marin BMW so close.

I hope it works as promised, and it restores my faith in dealers a little. It just seems the disconnect from the boss who profits and the people who run the shop is the problem there. Maybe he'll get reconnected a little better and it will be a permanent change for the better!

November 23, 2005

He offered to have his shop:

come tomorrow morning and pickup my bike (90+miles away)

bring a loaner bike when they come (they don't even have a loaner program)

repair my bike completely

return my bike to me

refund my costs completely

He asked if I'd be willing to let them do this.

This is exactly what i suggested they should have offered to do in the first place. I got a feeling some managers at the dealer ship are in trouble. So it sounds like the owner has good business sense but is having personnel issues which I'm sure he'll resolve because he doesn't want to have to do this again and again. My guess is the tech with the dykes is already looking for work.

Your documentation surely impressed him. Great job.

Jerry

November 23, 2005

That's superb!

November 23, 2005

I was pleasantly suprised that he was as open to discussing issues as it turned out to be.
He offered to have his shop:

come tomorrow morning and pickup my bike (90+miles away)

bring a loaner bike when they come (they don't even have a loaner program)

repair my bike completely

return my bike to me

refund my costs completely

Wedgeman, that is the appropriate outcome,and it is good that you accepted for him to make it right. Any wonder this man is so succesful? I am sure a big part of his succcess is his understanding of the value of taking care of the people that you depend on to help make you rich. Thanks for that update, still would have liked to be at that meeting!

cheers

ben

Still would have liked to be at that

November 23, 2005

Well, even though I'm from Kalifornia, I'm sort of a "show me" (Missouri) type person. Seeing is believing, but at this point, I'm rooting for this owner/dealer.

If they deliver, I hope you'll finally tell us who the dealer is, and not require us to guess whether the dealer is:

BMW Ducati Motorcycles of Charlotte - about 82 mi. from you

Touring Sport BMW - about 94 miles from you

Champion Honda BMW - about 99 miles from you

... or some dealer I missed.

Ya gotta give credit where credit is due!

November 23, 2005

If it was Touring Sport, which, from the description of the owner, I suspect it is, I am surprised that it ever got that far out of hand. I have known and dealt with them since they were across the street.

The manager there, Frank Shockley, is one of the really good guys. The tech crew there, I haven't been over that way in about 2 years, is really top notch with almost all of them involved in road racing in one way or another.

The owner, I think I have met him once or twice, is also a really good guy as this offer proves. Maybe I don't have the ID right but, I would be really curious as to which dealership it is.

November 23, 2005

True to their word, I got a call at 9:04am asking directions to my shop. Note that they open at 9am, it's about 1.5hrs drive.. At 10:45 their guy showed up on our dock with a 2yr old 1150RT on a trailer. Nice loaner bike.. Gotta admit I'm a bit paranoid of the servo brake system-that's gonna take a bit to get used to.. but it IS a bit more of a peppy bikke!

10 min's later he was out the door with my RT on the back.. No word on exactly how long it'll take, but my guess is it'll be running pretty well when it rolls back into town..

The only real bummer is that I'm heading out of town in 2hrs, and won't be able to ride unntill next week anyway....

November 23, 2005

True to their word, I got a call at 9:04am asking directions to my shop. Note that they open at 9am, it's about 1.5hrs drive.. At 10:45 their guy showed up on our dock with a 2yr old 1150RT on a trailer.

Outstanding!

Enjoy your Turkey Day David!

Mick

November 23, 2005

If they deliver, I hope you'll finally tell us who the dealer is, and not require us to guess whether the dealer is:

BMW Ducati Motorcycles of Charlotte - about 82 mi. from you

Touring Sport BMW - about 94 miles from you

Champion Honda BMW - about 99 miles from you

... or some dealer I missed.

You missed one.. or two...

November 23, 2005

Well, I've read through most of this thread until I hurt my head when it fell on the desk from exhaustion.

Seems to me that what we have hear is a failure to communicate.

Seriously, this reminds me of my first BMW, a cage, and I had nothing but problems with it and the service department. Finally after two months I was fed up, so I wrote a scathing letter to the dealership owner and BMW NA. Then I waited for 24 hours, edited the letter, took out all of my anger and just boiled it down to the facts and the action that I expected them to take. Very professional and businesslike it was, if I do say so my damn fine self.

The day after I mailed it I received a call from the owner; he apologized for all of my troubles, he fired the service writer, and he said that he'd do whatever it would take to make me happy. I said that I'd never be happy with that car after what I'd been through. So he wrote me a check (less the loan payoff) for the car. He reimbursed me the full selling price, taxes, fees, tags, everything.

I ran fast, ran far from BMW for several years after that, but the man did earn my repeat business several times over later on, because he treated me with respect. And I strongly believe that he did because I started by treating him with respect.

It's one of those two-way streets.

So, my advice for folks in a situation like this is, yes, write a letter, but then sit on it for a day and go back and edit the thing down and try to put yourself in the shoes of the recipient of the letter, and maybe rephrase some things.

Anyway, I'm glad everything is basically worked out here. It's a damn shame that the technicians made so many mistakes (sensor, cover, ignition switch, fuses...) and this is why I hesitate to take my bike in for non-warranty service.

Michael

November 24, 2005

So, my advice for folks in a situation like this is, yes, write a letter, but then sit on it for a day and go back and edit the thing down and try to put yourself in the shoes of the recipient of the letter, and maybe rephrase some things.

That's good advice. I am one of those guys who gets mad and indignant really fast,and I know that to get results a cold and focused anger works much better. Right now I am dealing with a towing company that did $500 damage to my K bike. I will keep your advice in mind. Wedge, how did you get a hold of the owner?

cheers

beno

November 27, 2005

Wedge, how did you get a hold of the owner?
cheers

beno

I happened to know more information about the dealership than does the average rider there...

BUT, you should be able to get hold of any principle of any dealership by asking management. I think by law they're required to choke up the names/contacct information for principles, if demanded..

December 7, 2005

Guess what showed up today!

My bike.. All nice & purrrrty... They had washed and waxed, buffed out the bug juice, cleaned my rims, replaced the tranny fluid, all oils, adjusted the clutch, set the timing, and even fixed a loose shock harness on the rear end.

After all the grumbling and whining, this has turned out quite well.. The dealership (under the able leadership of the owner)) did a superb job of regaining my trust.

So, no, I'm not going to divulge the dealership's location or name. They have done a great job, and I want no hard feelings. It was a shame that it took a while, but the owner had a loaner for me from within 12hrs of my meeting with him, and they did an excellent job of bringing the bike back up to snuff....

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