New BMW K1600GT and K160GTL Announcement

[beemerman2k]

I'm with you, Tim. Just because a new model comes out doesn't mean it's actually better -- or better enough. For some people, like me, the 4 is a much greater selling point than a 6 would be. I know a 4 is managable, but a 6? Who want's all that complexity? Sure, some riders do, but that's a very limited market compared to the size of those who would prefer a 4. Maintenance costs, road side maintainability, home mechanic issues -- who wants to have to fix their 6 on the road?

 

The 6 is for deep pocket riders. If you have deep pockets, then you can afford to have the dealer maintain the bike, and you can be assured that your bike is in like new condition before heading out on that multi-state trip. If you have shallow pockets, like I do, and you do your own work, however, you prefer something simple to work on. That way you can give yourself a similar level of assurance before heading out, and if you do have to do roadside repairs, it won't be so difficult to do.

[AZKomet]

So, what color is the GT you have for sale?

 

 

Just kidding.

You got a good one and will be happy for years.

 

My original GT still runs plenty gooda for me.

72k service and I replaced all the fluids/plugs/filters and it rides like a new bike.

New tires too.

Are there faster bikes?

Yes.

But who cares.

Enjoy what you got.

 

I was shifting at 5k and extralegal with 3 gears to go.

 

The 1600 will be expensive.

It will have new stuff.

 

So?

 

If you want one, get it and enjoy it.

If not, ride and make smiles.

Best wishes.

 

 

 

Sale??? With me ya never know Tim. Bikes are like ink pens. Use em and buy another...........I would prefer to have a bike that is in fashion but I am realizing I can go broke with that idea. I think it's time for the Mrs. for a new 5 series.

[cali_beemer]

The 6 is for deep pocket riders. If you have deep pockets, then you can afford to have the dealer maintain the bike, and you can be assured that your bike is in like new condition before heading out on that multi-state trip. If you have shallow pockets, like I do, and you do your own work, however, you prefer something simple to work on. That way you can give yourself a similar level of assurance before heading out, and if you do have to do roadside repairs, it won't be so difficult to do.

 

I am not sure even people with deep pockets will go for this one. In order for people to buy it (even with deep pockets) the bike will need to prove its worthiness over what it replaces or the alternatives on the market. What will its fuel economy/range be? cost to maintain since you got 2 extra cylinders? how will it handle with any new weight?.....Right now to me it appears to be a misfit bike, I just can see a deomographic instantly pulled to it and with what it will most likely cost, only the elite can afford it to begin with. I see a fast drop in re-sale value on this one. I still think they would have been better off re-fining the K1300GT in fine detail and listen to their customers for any possible changes. Its already regarded by many as the best a sport touring bike can get in terms of design.

[beemerman2k]

Of course, I am reminded of how the first 6 cylinder Honda Goldwing was received back in the mid-80's. If I recall, the '86 was the first model year that bike came out so equipped. There was a huge outcry against Honda from the Goldwing crowd for abandoning the 4 cylinder engine. Of course, in time, everyone adjusted and now I imagine a similar outcry would result if Honda went back to a 4.

 

BMW is expected to produce motorcycles that are not only comfortable to ride all day, like the Gold Wing, but they must also handle well in the twisties. That's what we have come to expect from them. So it will be interesting to see how this bike does down the stretch. Will it be a hit like the 6 cylinder Goldwing came to be? This should be interesting.

[hANNAbONE]

One more thing, when that eventual rider finishes the Iron Butt race on the new K1600, I hope rewards and prizes aren't to be expected. C'mon, talk about the lap of luxury! The greatest hardship might just come in the form of "gee, nuthin' good to listen to on the XM Radio today"

 

 

 

yOU kILL me, Bud..!

[AZKomet]

Maybe the new 2012 RT will be hydrogen powered and liquid cooled that vents into the ionosphere via osmotic transport?

 

Seriously, the idea of a 6 seems to be what the people want right? I mean, just ask Kaw....they listened about the connie I susoect BMW is doing the same. God knows we need to be charged an extra 50 bucks for 2 spark plugs, or an extra 200 for the 2 extra sets of valve checks.

 

BMW needs to rethink things IMO as I for one don't see the need.....The LT should be a 6 and has been underpowered from the get go. The GT seems to be absorbed into a bike that it will no longer be.....now a tourer instead of a sport tourer.

 

The gap with the RT to GTL will be missing and what shall fill that?

[cali_beemer]

Seriously, the idea of a 6 seems to be what the people want right? I mean, just ask Kaw....they listened about the connie I susoect BMW is doing the same.

 

Personally I dont understand the whole HP race myself but it does seem to sell motorcycles. While the desire for more power is always welcome by the general media, I dont think lower fuel economy or less capable handling are tolerated too well. I know I am jumping to conclusions on those matters, and we will let the final product that comes to market speak for itself. The biggest issue I see putting off larger sales numbers on the C14 is the rather smaller tank size and fuel economy. While for some its a small price to pay for the luxury of that motor, others are turned off imediately as more is expeted for a competent sport touring bike. I am not sure the average BMW clientel will accept it or not. Again, I know I am making assumptions but its hard not think that 1600 I6 will get a lower fuel economy or that a bigger motor wont somewhat limit its handling realtive to what a I4 could do. There are aloso some new and neat comtraptions that look to be unveiled on this machine. I dont know if all this is really wanted by the general masses or more so imposed by the manufactures. Some of the things I liked about some of my previous bikes is simplicity. When have we gone too far or made things too complex? Only the masses can decide that one. For me, I am digging simplicity right now and would be more inclined to buy another RT long before this new 1600.

[AZKomet]

If the connie had a bigger tank that would be in my barn instead of the GT.

That and cruise is why the GT is my purchase albeit that it pisses me off that the 1600 will replace her engine. I spoke with my dealer today and they laughed at the idea of a replacement 1600 for the GT.

 

Obviously the dealers are not informed or care to be informed of their own product. Chances are the GT will be a one year only machine for me. I'll put miles on her and sell her to some some unsuspecting sucker...... Then I will buy the Kaw as they will have cruise and a bigger tank by 2012 for sure......BTW I was just f'n with ya about BMW listening cuz I don't think they do!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Roadwolf]

Guys, I think you are missing the point with this bike.

 

How many Goldwings do you see out on the roads these days. I see tons and tons. Why is that?

 

Because it is an Accord on two wheels, with every available luxury and electronic gizmo available just about for a motorcycle. And people obviously want that. BMW has that in the current LT, and has been stated earlier, maybe underpowered for the bike's size. BMW has done their research I am sure and wouldn't be investing the R&D on such a powerplant if they hadn't looked at the market, i.e. Goldwing 1800. Look, the LT is over 10 years old, the engine configuration dates to the 80's and they obviously saw the need to upgrade the engine.

 

As to the current 1300GT, I have haven't seen evidence of it actually being discontinued. It may very well live on as a baby GT in the line up. I thing the talk about it being phased out could be premature.

 

I like options and if my wife rode more with me, I probably would take a long look at the new K bike.

[Firefight911]

Goldwing market is shrinking and, for the most part, impenetrable. Honda people will stay with Honda, Road King alphabet soup riders will stay with H-D. BMW couldn't penetrate the market in a way that would make business sense from a profit perspective. BMW knows this and, therefore, won't be attempting a complete onslaught to that market with an LT specific product.

 

They, instead, are going to build a bike that can be utilized as their flagship for technology and a 6-cylinder motor and grab the market of current GT riders along with those within the marque that want an LT type bike.

 

Think about this, over 80% (BMW internal numbers per my source) of GT owners have "modified" their bike in a way that moves it closer to the LT arena by way of one, a combination of, or all for peg lowering kits, new windscreens, and barbacks. Why not capture that market in a better way as well as capture those within the marque that are looking to go to the full LT level yet still want the familiar platform of a GT style hypersport-touring bike?

 

Yes, the 13 motor will live on, albeit in the K1300S and the K1300R. The US doesn't get the R.

 

Do I need more HP than what my current K13GT provides. Hell no! But I am still finding my pulse race over teh idea of a 6 cylinder bike. Thank you Mr Honda and the CBX!!!!! Would I like the bike to be able to perform at the current 13GT level yet still provide equal ergonomics to what I have done (windshield and barbacks) and even improve them for Jamie on the back? Hell yes! I think the 16 is shooting to do just that. We'll see.

 

For me, the killer of this platform will be a chassis that is longer than the current one in wheelbase, gives up cornering clearance (just ask Jamie about our ride on Icehouse Road yesterday!!!) , and somehow creates a handling characteristic that increases effort. The twisties would suffer greatly as a result. It needs no greater stability than it currently has so it doesn't need more relaxed geometry and longer wheel base, IMO.

 

That being said, in the GTL version I would expect it to have longer bar backs, bigger windscreen, and perhaps a revised geometry and cockpit that puts the bike deeper in to the LT envelope.

 

One big difference in the way we see what BMW is doing versus the way that BMW sees what they are doing is that we view it through rose colored glasses of emotion and passion and what the bike does to our inner heart strings. BMW sees it through the corporate lens of profit, technology, and the bottom line. IMO, BMW has moved more to that side of the coin of late.

 

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

Oh, and, YES, I am already on the list for any and all information on the 16. I also am down for the first available ride on both versions as soon as I can.

 

Oh, and NO, there is absolutely no chance on this God's green Earth you will see me on any first year BMW bike! So, no, I ain't buying one . . . . yet.

[johnlt]

Dave, something I don't understand. If you like the GT. Great performance, good tank size, cruise etc. Why would you sell it in a year just because they may not continue it. That fact doesn't change your bike one bit. BMW has demonstrated good support for discontinued models. I can still get any airhead part I need. I guess I just don't understand the logic of it.

[Roadwolf]

Goldwing market is shrinking and, for the most part, impenetrable. Honda people will stay with Honda, Road King alphabet soup riders will stay with H-D. BMW couldn't penetrate the market in a way that would make business sense from a profit perspective. BMW knows this and, therefore, won't be attempting a complete onslaught to that market with an LT specific product.

 

This is the part that I tend to disagree with. Honda makes thousands of Gold Wings per year, maybe tens of thousands for the U.S. market. The dealer up the road in Hendersonville is one of the biggest Goldwing dealers on the East coast. I think they still sell well... here is the rub, I bet that if BMW eyed the Goldwing with similar options, but with their usual German approach to the technology, they will take sales from the Goldwing. I personally know some Goldwing owners that would jump at the chance for a true competitor to that touring market. So far, the only one in the same ballpark has been the LT for the past decade. Sure, Goldwing owners are pretty loyal, but if BMW grabbed just a small percentage of those guys, man, that would be huge... last stat I remembered hearing is that for all the U.S., in a given year, the LT only sells about a couple hundred units a year, maybe double that. And I am sure that has dropped off significantly in the past couple of years.

 

But only BMW knows the numbers. I bet they could make a dent in that Honda sales figure, especially since the going price of Goldwings has entered into crazyland.

 

 

[Paul In Australia]

"Oh, and, YES, I am already on the list for any and all information on the 16. I also am down for the first available ride on both versions as soon as I can.

 

Oh, and NO, there is absolutely no chance on this God's green Earth you will see me on any first year BMW bike! So, no, I ain't buying one . . . . yet.

"

 

Lost your sense of adventure Phil???? lol!

regards

paul

[Bud]

One more thing, when that eventual rider finishes the Iron Butt race on the new K1600, I hope rewards and prizes aren't to be expected. C'mon, talk about the lap of luxury! The greatest hardship might just come in the form of "gee, nuthin' good to listen to on the XM Radio today"

 

 

 

yOU kILL me, Bud..!

 

Glad I can serve some purpose.

[AZKomet]

Dave, something I don't understand. If you like the GT. Great performance, good tank size, cruise etc. Why would you sell it in a year just because they may not continue it. That fact doesn't change your bike one bit. BMW has demonstrated good support for discontinued models. I can still get any airhead part I need. I guess I just don't understand the logic of it.

 

I understand John...but what you may not understand is that when it comes to bikes and me logic is right out the window!!!!!

[Indy Dave]

perhaps the six will meet future emission standards that the 'elderly' four would not be able to?

[John Bentall]

BMW in the UK are making a huge number of conquest sales from other brands because of the technology. Folks are taking a financial hit on trading their recently acquired sport bikes just to be on the latest and greatest sports machine.

I am sure that BMW has got its market research right - folks do want the technology. Why a six? - because they can - and that is what it will take to win people over in the touring market.

If I was a Wing owner - I would not downgrade to a 1300GT with a tiny saddle and 2 less cylinders.

I remember well the many, many folk who said the 1200RT was fugly when it was announced and than changed their minds when they saw it in person. Can we please not repeat this wait till we see it, while not denying freedom of speech.

I cannot wait for the first trailer bar for the K1600

[Deadboy]

If the connie had a bigger tank that would be in my barn instead of the GT.

That and cruise is why the GT is my purchase albeit that it pisses me off that the 1600 will replace her engine. I spoke with my dealer today and they laughed at the idea of a replacement 1600 for the GT.

 

Obviously the dealers are not informed or care to be informed of their own product. Chances are the GT will be a one year only machine for me. I'll put miles on her and sell her to some some unsuspecting sucker...... Then I will buy the Kaw as they will have cruise and a bigger tank by 2012 for sure......BTW I was just f'n with ya about BMW listening cuz I don't think they do!!!!!!!!!!

 

I hope Kawi is listening....I agree it needs a bigger tank (cruise isn't that important to me).....my RT will have to be replaced in the next year or two and a Kawi is high up the list.

[SAAB93driver]

If anyone can make a 6 cylinder inline engine it's BMW. It's not a class of bike I would be interested in (from any manufacturer) but it is interesting to see them push the envelope. I hope they meet their sales goals and stay in business while I hold out for a boxer that fills the hole left by the demise RS/ST because that looks like it could be a very long wait.

 

[beemerman2k]

I agree. If BMW wins, we all win. If BMW loses, we all lose. To the degree that they can establish a reputation of manufacturing highly desirable motorcycles, the resale value of all our bikes stays strong. Conversely, our resale value drops if the image of BMW motorcycles is poor.

 

So here's to the wild success of the new 6

[cali_beemer]

I am seeing some good debates on the I-6, but I think we are forgeting there are 2 bikes to be displayed, the GT and the LT. I see the I6 being a good fit for the LT market to compete with the wing, I dont see it a good fit for the GT version. as for the spy photos we have seen which appear to be the LT variant, it looks to have nothing more than the current 49L top case but modified for more of a backrest and the current GT side cases. Will this be enough to woo the luxury touring market? Whatever happened to the nicely designed luggage of the current LT blending the curves of the bike? Right now it just doesnt look like typical BMW. Its looking more like a case of afterthoughts in order to keep 2 bikes on the same platform. I will reserve my opinion until i see true production versions but I cant say I am excited.

[Limecreek]

A little more is leaking out (unconfirmed) from one of the K Bike sites.

 

GT

Seat Height 31.5,

190/17 Rear Tire

Seating posture close to current 12RT

Weight 340Kg - that is a big boy

Slipper Clutch

[tallman]

Ding ding ding.

If it is bigger weight wise than my current GT, I'm probably going to admire someone else's.

Some day I may check out the gen II or gen III versions, but not any soon time.

[BitScribbler]

A little more is leaking out (unconfirmed) from one of the K Bike sites.

 

GT

Seat Height 31.5,

190/17 Rear Tire

Seating posture close to current 12RT

Weight 340Kg - that is a big boy

Slipper Clutch

 

Oh dear. I run my K1200GT with the bars fully down because I like the "sportier" riding position, rather than the RT upright position. I also think my bike's about as heavy as I want a bike to be, so this may not be my next upgrade after all.

[AZKomet]

A little more is leaking out (unconfirmed) from one of the K Bike sites.

 

GT

Seat Height 31.5,

190/17 Rear Tire

Seating posture close to current 12RT

Weight 340Kg - that is a big boy

Slipper Clutch

 

Over 750 lbs dry? Wet, 2 up and loaded? I can see my pegs being ground off in the corners.

[Ken H.]

Goldwing market is shrinking and, for the most part, impenetrable. Honda people will stay with Honda, Road King alphabet soup riders will stay with H-D. BMW couldn't penetrate the market in a way that would make business sense from a profit perspective. BMW knows this and, therefore, won't be attempting a complete onslaught to that market with an LT specific product.

People were saying that about BMW and the sport bike market too a year ago. Now look.

[fourteenfour]

Goldwing market is shrinking and, for the most part, impenetrable. Honda people will stay with Honda, Road King alphabet soup riders will stay with H-D. BMW couldn't penetrate the market in a way that would make business sense from a profit perspective. BMW knows this and, therefore, won't be attempting a complete onslaught to that market with an LT specific product.

People were saying that about BMW and the sport bike market too a year ago. Now look.

 

If that rumored seat height of 31.5 is accurate they certainly are not going to make an inroads on HD or Honda's touring market.

 

I know a few who were turned off simply by BMW's near standard 31 inch seat heights.

[ragtoplvr]

Perhaps it will have a power option for self righting after a tip-over. Come to think of it, that would be handy on a GSA fully loaded too.

 

Rod

[motoguy128]

Goldwing market is shrinking and, for the most part, impenetrable. Honda people will stay with Honda, Road King alphabet soup riders will stay with H-D. BMW couldn't penetrate the market in a way that would make business sense from a profit perspective. BMW knows this and, therefore, won't be attempting a complete onslaught to that market with an LT specific product.

People were saying that about BMW and the sport bike market too a year ago. Now look.

 

I can't imagine why'd you might want both legroom AND ground clearance. Wit ha low seat height, you have to pick one or the other.

 

If that rumored seat height of 31.5 is accurate they certainly are not going to make an inroads on HD or Honda's touring market.

 

I know a few who were turned off simply by BMW's near standard 31 inch seat heights.

[sardineone]

I know a few who were turned off simply by BMW's near standard 31 inch seat heights

On the other hand I love the ground clearance my BMW twin has even when loaded with luggage in the twisties! Might be a hard act to follow on this 6 cylinder mega motor platform.

[onmyrt]

On the other hand I love the ground clearance my BMW twin has even when loaded with luggage in the twisties! Might be a hard act to follow on this 6 cylinder mega motor platform.

 

I've been wondering about how wide that 6 cylinder case is going to be.

But I will be surprised if it is any wider than the current Boxer motor.

[FlyingFinn]

Not perceptively wider than the current in-line four.

 

--

Mikko

[motoguy128]

I think I read to keep it narrow the stator was moved from the traditonal location opposite the clutch, to somewhere on top of the motor. That will probably cut 3". The cylinder bores, having 6 and being less oversquare than the 1200cc mill, will make up the rest.

 

Another thing I noticed is the the engine shown has a single throttle body like a car. It' sa good way to control costs and reduce weight. Eliminates TB synching, and might allow for less turbulent air and high velocities at low RPM's, which gives it such good low end torque (for a motorcycle).

[Limecreek]

New pictures from the K sites.

 

[AZKomet]

Still looks like a Kaw Connie.....

 

Doubt the final product will look like this though. better mile out my Gt so I can run down and buy the first ones!!!

 

I seriously doubt that there will be any problems with this baby!!!!!

[Limecreek]

Doubt the final product will look like this though.

 

It looks like a final product to me. What a beast.

[bmwsit]

Okay, so you can see the motor, nice and low in the bike, then the fairing has vents in it, above the motor? Have looked at the concept drawings released by BMW and they show normal fairings in that location of course with the nice roundel in place. Have looked at the spy photos too, anyone else think that those vents or fins looks fake, like the entire thing is a sticker or decal?

[AZKomet]

Look at it with a mag glass like I did. I see some depth so it is not a sticker or decal.

 

Still looks like a connie. The dealer said that he heard the sticker was 23k with no add ons.

[johnlt]

It just doesn't look wide enough to house six cylinders.

[AZKomet]

Dunno....don't like the h/l assembly and overall appearance. I am gonna look at it when it comes out...but look only. I am not gonna beta test this. Nope, no way, no siree bob, uh uh......not me. Maybe a long test ride....or a w/e loaner. Or maybe a 72 hr buy back if I don't like it contract. You know like Chrysler mini vans.

[tallman]

Interesting driving/fog lights down there.

 

An improvement on the LT

 

Not so sure about the GT.

 

Dave, 1st dibs when you go to sell it.

You do finance, right?

[markgoodrich]

I've just learned the following:

 

Engine will be all titanium, with carbon fiber valves.

 

Seats and all hollow items such as frame, handlebars, will be filled and sealed at the factory with helium, with a net result being the bike will "weigh" 512 pounds.

 

Due to the lighter weight, fuel mileage is expected to be 60+mpg at autobahn speeds. [Mexico has autopistas, which are like autobahns, but with sheep. So that's good. You can go to Mexico and get really good gas mileage].

 

Passenger arm rests will be pneumatically controlled by super-lightweight electric compressors. Passengers will be able to operate them with supplied remote (rechargeable battery will be included; BMW-specific charger for the remote will be extra). Handlebar-mounted thumb-controlled armrest controllers...one for each side (remind you of anything?) will be deactivated when sensors in the pillion seat uh, sense, a pillion.

 

Keyless ignition will be standard. Make that electronic keyless ignition, not the old-school deal BMW had back in the day...you know, when things were made right, men were men, and oil was oil?

 

Sat radio will be integrated into the bike's new intercom system, but unfortunately for now will only play the Wagner station.

 

My source will provide more information as it becomes available. List price will be $21,467.

 

HOWEVER, I'm not optimistic about the new bike's chances in the marketplace.

 

Honda is about to announce the all-new Goldwing, a 2,000 cc V-8 with 188 hp, top speed of 197mph, automatic armrest deployment, carbon fiber engine with titanium valves, standard rider's backrest with built-in DVD player for pillion, sat radio with every channel BUT Wagner, automatic electric windshield which has built-in sensors which can tell rider's height and adjust shield to optimum location for quiet, no-buffet air, weighing only 436 pounds. Air conditioning is standard. And special paint which just by coincidence is invisible to radar and laser. List price will be $17,234.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

it's even uglier than my GS...

[AZKomet]

Sure...but with the weight at 750 plus it may take two men and a small boy to ride that thing!!!

[ka5ysy]

This is what happens when an LT and a RT fool around in the garage after a few beers !

 

 

New

 

 

[Pletch]

Completely hate the detachable bags on it. The lines of the LT were great and really flowed well and gave a great appearance to the entire bike. In addition, these bags look exactly like the ones on my RT, which are great and good sized, sides and top. But the size of the LT bags, in spite of not being removeable, were great for the long hauls, especially two up. Heck you could load both bags and still have room for two helmets in the top case. It appears to me, there is a lot of space lost in this new grand touring machine.

 

Just my two cents

[TEWKS]

Completely hate the detachable bags on it.

Just my two cents

 

I like what I see so far but, the bags do remind me of this old

 

 

 

 

Pat

[AZKomet]

[Mike]

I wonder a bit how closely the spy photos resemble the final design. They look quite a bit different than the sketches that BMW has released:

 

 

It's not unheard of for manufacturers to heavily disguise their test bikes or cars during this phase of development. Of course, they'll never be as pretty as my R1200ST.

[Firefight911]

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