Enter the Jeep Wrangler nether world

[John Ranalletta]

Started toying with the idea of buying a Wrangler for our forays onto acreages we're considering buying.

 

I didn't realize what a strange place the Wrangler marketplace is. First, the prices are sky high (IMO). Any late model, e.g. 2005 to present are out of the question for my purposes. Second, prices on older Wranglers are also high which corresponds to the mileage on them. I guess I never realized why anyone would want to put 100K+ miles in a Wrangler...kinda' like doing 5k on a DRZ.

 

A look at the ads turns up lots of scams. One has to learn a new language to read the ads to understand "lifted", "rough country", "spicer", "slip yoke", "sound bars", et al.

 

It's an entire subculture of vehicles and owners which makes it very difficult for the uninitiated to compare one to another. One thing's clear, rust doesn't scare away these owners...they almost brag about it, like "...Pretty solid tub, rust at drivers floor,and rocker wall, thats pretty much it. ". Not unusual to read, "Pile of parts included in sale" or "will trade for gutter machine or running truck".

 

Finding the right Wrangler might be harder than finding the right property.

[azkaisr]

 

But they are uber worthy fun. I still love getting into mine every day even to just go to work.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[Ken H.]

Me thinks you need to find a different route to work!

 

Or else the Arizona DOT is in worse budget shape than I thought!

 

[OoPEZoO]

But they are uber worthy fun. I still love getting into mine every day even to just go to work.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

What he said ^^^^^

 

I bought mine as a "play" "fun" "weekend" toy......then I went and ended up putting 22k miles on it the first year I had it. I absolutely love it......and yes, it is a strange bit of a different world when you immerse yourself into the offroading community. Different, yes, but still a great group of people.

 

Fun, fun, fun.....wranglers are a blast

 

[Shaman97]

There is a Grand Cherokee market that has a suspiciously large percentage of vehicles that have never seen anything but asphalt. Been used as alternatives to Caravans and the like.

Zone in on a particular model/year, and keep after it. You CAN find a bargain, especially if you look in urban areas. I wouldn't let the higher mileage vehicles worry me too much. Lots of Jeep sites out there, too.

[John Ranalletta]

What year and model? Auto? Stick? 4 or 6 cyl?

 

TIA

[cali_beemer]

Ahhh, get a newer one with the Rubicon package. It may be expensive but its all stuff will end up doing to the wrangler. Lockers, dana 44 axles....The expensive stuff is done and used ones can be found reasonable. Although I should mention I live about an hour away from the actual Rubicon trail. I have been on the Rubicon when Jeep runs their fleet of wranglers though. When they say trail rated they mean it. They run a fleet of stock wranglers through it with the only modifications being skidplates and real all terrain tires. I have driven a wrangler a few times including off road down in Mexico. I would lvoe one but not sure about my everyday vehicle. However they are pretty diverse vehicles. I need a truck to do what I need so they arent in the picture for me right now but if I didnt need a truck i would consider one.

[OoPEZoO]

Most of that depends on you. Personally, I wouldn't buy an automatic anything. I have owned nothing but stick shifts since I was 15, and don't see that changing anytime soon. The automatics would be easier to learn to drive offroad, but I love a good old traditional manual transmission.

 

'07 and newer are all V6 motors. Older than that, you have the choice of the 2.5L 4cyl or the 4.0L inline 6. I believe the inline 6 was the best of the bunch. The V6 they put in them now is an alright motor, but it is really missing the down low grunt that that old inline 6 had.

 

I shopped for one for almost 5 years and found the same issues you are having. The used prices are just retarded for what you are getting, and there is no way in hell I was willing to spend $25k on a brand new one. I got lucky and bought mine during Chrysler's bankruptcy last year. I drove it off the lot brand new for $16800 and 0% financing for 4 years......plus Mr. Obama let me write off the sales tax this year. That was too good of a deal to pass up, so I bought a brand new one.

 

If I was looking used, I would probably search out a '04-'06 Unlimited model. They were 2-doors, but had a slightly longer wheelbase than the standard 2-door.

 

If money isn't much of an issue, I would look for an '08+ X model with the tow package. The tow package gives you 3.73 rear gears out of the box which is much better than the 3.21 gears the standard models got.

 

If you plan to do any serious offroading, skip it all and go straight for the '08+ Rubicon. They came with 4.10 gears, factory lockers, and an electronic sway bar disconnect (which sucks, but you can sell it for $500).

[cali_beemer]

 

If you plan to do any serious offroading, skip it all and go straight for the '08+ Rubicon. They came with 4.10 gears, factory lockers, and an electronic sway bar disconnect (which sucks, but you can sell it for $500).

 

My thoughts exactly but dont forget it also has the beefier dana 44 axles which will be one of the first things to break on a wrangler in real off roading.

[russell_bynum]

A few notes:

 

 

First...Wranglers kick ass.

 

I'm a big fan of the straight six. It's very simple. Tons of low end torque. Reliable.

 

Automatics are for pussies. You're not a pussy are you, John? Didn't think so...OK, so it'll be a 5spd.

 

Everything else depends on how hardcore you're talking about getting. If you just want a fun car that has 4wd and can clear some obstacles, stock is fine and you don't need lockers, swaybar disconnects, etc. The Dana 44 is a great axle but unless you're really going to be stressing them, don't waste your money.

 

We've had two Wranglers. I had a '98 TJ 4.0 5spd and it came with the Dana 44's and 3.73 gears. The hard top and full doors are nice but it still sucked on the freeway....loud, crappy ride, etc. I put 73,000 miles on it in 5 years and had two problems: a bad connection on the overcomplicated computerized instrument cluster, and something broke in the rear brakes (I can't remember what it was) Other than that, it was flawless.

 

Lisa's got a '94 YJ. 4.0 5spd. It has some dumb mods like extended shackles, but most of the important stuff is stock. It has the hard top and doors, but we removed them, relocated the mirrors to the windshield frame, and installed a bikini top that just covers the area over the front/rear seat.

 

The TJ is far more capable off-road. But the YJ does just fine for everything that we want. I could see going to a limited-slip diff but don't have any need for a full locker and I can't see us breaking the stock axles anytime soon with the way we use it.

 

The TJ is nicer and more refined. But that also means more complicated. Now...it's still a Jeep...which is about the least complicated vehicle out there, but when I compare the YJ to the TJ, the difference is pretty staggering. There's just less "Stuff" in the YJ and what is there is more "Farmer engineering" than "College boy engineering". For a beater car that's going to be out in the weather and "rode hard and put away wet" I'll take farmer engineering any day.

 

Used prices are insane. We found Lisa's YJ with high miles and got a decent deal because the seller was really motivated (tax problems). Deals are out there but you have to look.

[John Ranalletta]

Thanks, all.

 

A jeep would not be a daily driver but would need to be highway capable for trips < 1 hour; so, something a bit radical would be okay, but not a dedicated rock climber. Here are a few I'm hoping to look at today. The first one's a 4 cyl.

 

 

 

[John Ranalletta]

Interestingly, there's a deserted wrangler on one of the properties we're considering. It's a mess and looks like it's been stranded for years and has a tow bar attached. Looks like the land owner did some climbing on the property with it.

[OoPEZoO]

Looks like you are getting a good start at figuring it all out.

 

The YJ's (square headlights) have leaf spring suspensions, and like Russell said, are the least complicated of the bunch

 

The TJ's (round headlights) moved over to a coil suspension so they ride on the road better than the YJ's.

 

The JK's (new body style) are much more compliant on the road than the either of the previous models, but at the cost of complexity and just plain old $$$$.

 

If I was shopping for a 2nd vehichle to play around with, I would run towards the TJ's. My sister has a 4cyl 5-speed YJ that I drive occationaly. Its OK, but I would take the TJ over the YJ every time. The other thing to think about is if you think you will want to lift it or go with oversized tires. The YJ's take some serious modifications to get anything larger than about a 30" tire on them (cutting and welding), the TJ's can get you up to about a 32-33" tire before things start getting ugly, and the new JK's can get you to a 35" tire with minimal bolt on mods. Again, I still think the TJ can give you the best compromise with everything.

 

One other thing to note when shopping......take a look underneath for trail damage. Scraped up skid plates are one thing, but ugly rewelded or mangled suspension brackets are a dead ringer for a Jeep that was beat on. I know I looked at a few that were advertised as pavement queens, but looked like complete crap underneath.

[brennaman]

I have to agree with all the positive remarks on the Wrangler. We bought the last year of the TJ ('06) for a tow vehicle behind an RV. Having the bike as my daily ride, I just needed something for the winter (TJ is perfect) and to get my son back and forth around town. I also wanted a used one, but for the price difference between used and new, I bought the new one. I have never been in love with any of my cars, I have had used cars all my life just to have when I could not ride the bike. But this thing has changed my outlook on driving. I drive it to work sometimes over the bike because I love this thing. We are going to Colorado in August with the RV, and I just bought a book for Colorado backroads and 4-wheel drive trails. The wife and son love to go offroad. (nothing serious, just somewhere to have a picnic that most people can't get to) My TJ is the inline 6-cyl, 6 speed. I think they put the 6th gear in just to meet MPG regs, I seldom go over 70 mph where it is needed. Whenever anyone asks how I like my Jeep, I tell them it is the worst vehicle when it comes to everyday driving, bad mileage, loud, rough ride, no storage space. But I think I will allway's have one now. It puts a smile on my face everytime I take it out.

[Rougarou]

A Jeep is a wonderful vehicle to have. I've had five of them. They make good daily drivers, yes, they really do. I would commute 35 miles one way a day in mine and averaged 16-18mpg's. The ride was comfortable, the cruise set at 75, the A/C kicking cold. Also, as you see it in the pictures below, I've made several 500+ mile trips, driven, not trailered with a family of four and gear. She was locked front and rear, geared lower and beaten hard, but never failed me. I ended up selling it last year because I didn't play with it anymore. Bought new in 2000, sold with 48k on the dial and well taken care of. Eventually, I'll get another and it will be a daily driver as well and an occasional trip taker.

 

[Rphoto]

I had a TJ for four years and it was fun to run off road the little bit that I did of it. Most of the time it was used on road and I have to tell you it is not great for that purpose. I had the basic model with no options and standard 4 cylinder/5 speed. I found it to be rough riding and it wandered all over the road. The steering was numb and it only got about 14 mpg despite having zero passing power. The top was complex to put up or down and the zip-up door curtains were a joke. It did have a super heater and was useful in snow and as mentioned off road. Also nice top down on a nice day. YMMV depending on how you use it and what your expectations are.

[rad]

I had fun with mine but I would never get another 4cl for any highway use.

 

Bought it used, sold it a few years later for about the same as I paid for it!

[SageRider]

Always enjoyed my YJ. Currently between Jeeps.

 

[cali_beemer]

Inline six is the way to go. 4 cylinder is for weenies. If I had an older one I would do the chevy vortex 350 fuel injected mod. Too hard to do on a newer one with smog requirements. Extreme 4x4 transplanted a HEMI 5.7L in it. 345 hp and 385 ft-lbs of torque.......Aughhhh aughhh aughhh... more power....

[mbelectric]

Call me a weenie, but I like the torque and power of my 4.2l I6 YJ

Never needed any more than that.(talkin' off road only here.)

 

I've had lots of engines, and another I liked was in my old F150 4X4 short bed, 300 I6. Never shoulda sold it. Dana front lockers, ltd slip rear, no frills, just thrills. A turning radius ya wouldn't believe for a truck.

 

Tried Jeeps and 4X4's with bigger motors, but spinning wheels isn't my thing.

 

I WOULD like to find an older Bronco with a 289 in it tho...

 

MB>

 

[cali_beemer]

 

I WOULD like to find an older Bronco with a 289 in it tho...

 

MB>

 

66-77 were great years. However, I would convert it to a 5.0L 302HO fuel injected. Its pretty common in the older broncos and there are alot of kits. I am Ford guy. 3 F-150's and a bronco. I bought my dodge ram out of cost. I must say the Dodge is converting me into a mopar guy more and more. Tough as nails.

 

 

To the OP, are you planning on wheeling this thing? Lift it?...if so I would look for someone thats already done all the mods. It will be alot cheaper. Do your research too because not all lifts are created equel. There are alot of different ways to lift a jeep like shackles, blocks, leaf springs, all the way up to a long arm kit.