Zero electric bike with picture

[Peter Parts]

Had a test ride this morning on the Zero electric bike. Goes really fast but not far and top speed around 70 mph (105 kph). Excellent engineering in every way.

 

Zero website

 

Feels like a light dirt bike. Smooth as could be and silent, which is kind of weird. Without engine braking the grabbers have to do all the braking. They're OK but more would be better.

 

Live better electrically.

 

Ben

(I'll do a write-up for my website later on.)

 

 

[Peter Parts]

Umm, one low res attachment per post.

Spokes! SS brake lines! Pretty disks! No tach, eh. But has both speedo dial and digital!

[Peter Parts]

Where is the rest of the motor? Won't do wheelies but takes off real smartly. Street legal!

[upflying]

Until electric vehicles have the range and refueling convenience of fossil fuel vehicles, I only see a limited market for them. They will remain feel good toys for enviro-activists until battery technology catches up. What happens to our electric grid when everyone plugs in their vehicles at 5pm?

[Peter Parts]

Isn't that just a bit too tightly focused on today's IC bikes? Seems to me that Detroit has spewed that sentiment (I struggle to find nice words to describe Detroit-logic) about everything from tailfins to engine displacement.

 

You could just as easily say, until they have as many gas stations as electric outlets in the world, I ain't buying a stinking dangerous gasoline bike. Or, just a handful of foreign countries got you by the shorthairs when you pump gas, Canada excepted. Or waste of time playing with gears when all you need is electric torque. Or arrive rested, not shaked-and-stirred by a twin engine. Or 25-cents a "fill-up" is dandy. Or give me a 200 lb very fast bike any day.

 

Not entirely kidding.

 

Yes, 40 highway miles is pretty slim range and nobody has mentioned the price of lithium replacement batteries (don't ask).

 

I would say this: the Zero S is a great ride for short hops. Quite a nice experience twisting the throttle and having the well-designed and constructed bike pull away strong, silent, no slipping clutches, and gear-free. Probably riding with no engine braking and letting the brakes do all the braking makes more sense too even if it feels pretty odd at first.

 

Ben

[sabre]

One potential way to extend range would be regeneritive braking like the Prius has.

 

[Peter Parts]

One potential way to extend range would be regeneritive braking like the Prius has.

 

Yes, a natural good idea, but issues a bit different with bikes: weight, complexity, space/shape, cost, differences in the motor, kinds of stop-and-go proportions....

 

At the best, maybe 10%, Zero told me today. Who knows?

 

I think they really need two kinds of "jerry cans" - one that is a small box with a tiny engine-generator set (using model airplane engines - you read it here first) and one that lets you cannibalize car batteries with jumper cables.

 

Ben

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Until electric vehicles have the range and refueling convenience of fossil fuel vehicles, I only see a limited market for them. They will remain feel good toys for enviro-activists until battery technology catches up. What happens to our electric grid when everyone plugs in their vehicles at 5pm?

 

That's what I keep saying.

 

One day they'll make one that can go highway speeds all the way to L.A. THEN they'll sell 'em in droves.

[Peter Parts]

About this Detroit-think thing again, yes, of course, obviously, some differences from today's stuff are different and some pretty severe. Not helpful to repeat the obvious limitations again and again. For the moment, these limitations and their expression in terms of selling price, keep me remote from being a buyer.

 

I didn't mention that one model is off-road. Range not as big an issue there but maybe the torque, smooth power roll-on, and no gear shifting makes that a natural application.

 

The question is whether creative people like David R can think of ways to get around the limitations, to nudge the technology forward, or otherwise to make progress.

 

The Zero designer, a very clever person with experience in NASA and high-tech bicycles, opted to trade cruising range for performance. Do I hear anybody on this forum complaining? Would you prefer a bike that topped out at 30 mph but went 100 miles on a charge? He opted for fast, very very light (that means "expensive," eh), and competent handling.

 

As far as I can tell, and I don't want to sound like I'm shilling for the company, the replaceable part, the battery, is the core limitation. That can improve.

 

But back to Detroit-think. Anybody hear ever hear their friends and relatives wonder why any sane person would buy a motorcycle that gets you and the bike soaking wet EVERY TIME you get caught in a little rain. Heard that once, twice, or a million times? Sound to you like some kind of severe shortcoming of the mode?

 

Ben

[elkroeger]

Until electric vehicles have the range and refueling convenience of fossil fuel vehicles, I only see a limited market for them. They will remain feel good toys for enviro-activists until battery technology catches up. What happens to our electric grid when everyone plugs in their vehicles at 5pm?

 

Wow. Way to think outside the box there guy.

[Peter Parts]

Until electric vehicles have the range and refueling convenience of fossil fuel vehicles, I only see a limited market for them. They will remain feel good toys for enviro-activists until battery technology catches up. What happens to our electric grid when everyone plugs in their vehicles at 5pm?

 

Wow. Way to think outside the box there guy.

 

Right.

 

5 PM? That would be terrible.

 

But in Ontario, homes and users have smart meters and time-of-day pricing. 9 PM till like 7 AM and all day weekends and holidays, electricity is like 4.5-cents per megamolecule versus 9.8-cents at peak. Almost trouble giving the stuff away at off-peak times.

 

Electric systems are costly almost according to peak use and making the stuff is the small part of the cost. Also, in the future, cars sitting in garages might put some juice back into the system at peak times.

 

Ben

[ESokoloff]

 

One day they'll make one that can go highway speeds all the way to L.A. THEN they'll sell 'em in droves.

 

Or at least half that distance (200 miles) with a half hour recharge time....

[ESokoloff]

..... Also, in the future, cars sitting in garages might put some juice back into the system at peak times.

 

 

Thats a great idea that I hope comes true in my lifetime.

[Skywagon]

Simple problem. Power it with Norelco shavers. Mine recharges in 15 minutes and will run over night (if accidentally left on).

[Bologna]

Check this out...

http://www.iomtt.com/en/TT-2010/TT-Zero.aspx

[upflying]

Until electric vehicles have the range and refueling convenience of fossil fuel vehicles, I only see a limited market for them. They will remain feel good toys for enviro-activists until battery technology catches up. What happens to our electric grid when everyone plugs in their vehicles at 5pm?

 

Wow. Way to think outside the box there guy.

Let's do some logical pondering here..

$10,000 purchase price

Claimed 40 mile range

realistic 20 mile range factoring hills, headwinds and portly rider weight (could be mitigated by rider pushing bike with dead battery)

Battery replacement cost

Carbon footprint damage during battery manufacture

Length of recharge time

Type of fuel used to generate electricity in your area

Compare cost of five recharges with refueling gasoline powered bike at 200 mi

Sorry, I'm staying inside my box

 

[japachap]

I just got back from China where the majority of the personal scooters (not taking into account the delivery bikes here) in the big cities appear to have been replaced by electric ones with a range of about 40km/25miles and a purchase price of about 300euros/360USD. Even the Chinese find them reasonably priced, bu then they're made ultra-cheaply in the home market.

I know its not the same playground or performance as we want for our electric tourers, but it shocked me as to how,in the right market with the right user profile electric bikes are viable- especially for in-town commutes. Plus, here in Holland we have excellent cycle/scooter lanes and its so flat...

 

Electric wont push you up a mountain for three hours, but if people were to switch from using cars in towns- what a differnce.

 

How did Beijing/Peking clean its air up for the Olympics? You can bet getting all those 2-strokes off the streets helped (yeah, the new, awesome subway too)!

[upflying]

Short range electrics could make sense in the ultra-dense housing found in China's big cities. He is the USA, it's spread out suburbia with long distances and high speeds between housing and jobs. If you do see local traffic, it's soccer mom in the SUV/minivan lugging car seats, kids and groceries. Not the market for electric scoots.

Willing to bet China recharges those electric bikes with nuclear power. Unfortunately the USA is behind the curve in that technology.

[Peter Parts]

Short range electrics could make sense in the ultra-dense housing found in China's big cities. He is the USA, it's spread out suburbia with long distances and high speeds between housing and jobs. If you do see local traffic, it's soccer mom in the SUV/minivan lugging car seats, kids and groceries. Not the market for electric scoots.

Willing to bet China recharges those electric bikes with nuclear power. Unfortunately the USA is behind the curve in that technology.

 

.. they go home each night to mom and apple pie.

 

I've heard it rumored that a certain number of people live in or near cities in the USA?

 

Ben

(grew up in New York and Chicago, eh)