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Edmonton, AB to Adopt Tough New Anti-Motorcycle Noise Law


Ken H.

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In response to growing public outrage over motorcycle noise, especially in the popular downtown corridor, Edmonton Alberta is poised to put into place what is potentially the toughest motorcycle noise law in North America.

 

To which of course I say - :thumbsup:

 

Details here - New Edmonton Bylaw

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The Edmonton bikers will do what they do here in Ca when they cruise past a cop/decibel meter. They coast by with the engine at idle.

For every ten people who obey laws there are one or two who consider a law as a challenge to break it. Laws only apply to people who obey them.

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About time.

I'm all for legislative correction when folks feel that they have to create a racket for their own safety, to quote the shop owner in the article.

I'm sick and tired of hearing complaints and being lumped in with those who ride obnoxiously loud bikes.

:thumbsup:

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For every ten people who obey laws there are one or two who consider a law as a challenge to break it. Laws only apply to people who obey them.

 

Around here, 1 or 2 out of ten bikers have quiet pipes.

I can't see it too hard to find a loud bike in my neck of the woods.

 

Wish the law is successful and spreads . . .

 

 

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Peter Parts

No doubt the principle is a good one. And I say that as a guy with LeoVince mufflers with db killers and which I repack with care and knowledge from time to time. Virtually no aftermarket cans have anything but tiny proper sound treatment (LeoVince SBK the best of the lot).

 

I think it will prove unenforcible and certainly unconvictable. Just think of the courtroom obstacles radar guns face ("... and when was your radar gun last checked? Was the check based on lab certified standard? When were you trained.....") and that's not 10% of the variation you have with sound level measurement.

 

Moreover, while objections to radar even in the bad old days, was mostly bogus even if accepted by judges, objection to the truth of sound level measurements are many and legitimate.

 

Long ago I consulted on public reactions to airport noise. Getting objective measures of noise annoyance is a can of worms, even when the physical measurements are valid. Here you can't expect the physical measurements to mean much.

 

Two tiny examples: the bylaw has to specify the various reflecting surfaces in the measurement area. Maybe it is just the simple-minded Edmonton Journal, but there is no such thing as plain vanilla "db" measurements; there is only dBA, dBC, or other kinds of measures.

 

Good move but has to be done right.

 

New York City was playing with ideas about laws that are very strict about bikes using only OEM mufflers. Period. The Germans kind of like things that way too. Not me - sounds terrible.

 

Ben

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When they ticket the trucks/mustangs/corvettes etc for noise and when they ticket semi's for noise and when they ticket any smelly diesel, then, maybe, just maybe, I might see this kind of law necessary. Until then, let the noisy bikes et al alone. Their noise, after all, for most of us, is fleeting. And of course, most of those making noise, may meet their early demise and that can't but help the gene pool(lol)

 

I want as little interference in my right to ride a bike as possible. I believe in wearing a helmet, but that is my choice.

 

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

paul

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Bill_Walker
I think it will prove unenforcible and certainly unconvictable. Just think of the courtroom obstacles radar guns face ("... and when was your radar gun last checked? Was the check based on lab certified standard? When were you trained.....") and that's not 10% of the variation you have with sound level measurement.

 

I think a lot of that gets cleared up because they appear to be using the recently published SAE motorcycle sound level testing standard.

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Peter Parts
I think it will prove unenforcible and certainly unconvictable. Just think of the courtroom obstacles radar guns face ("... and when was your radar gun last checked? Was the check based on lab certified standard? When were you trained.....") and that's not 10% of the variation you have with sound level measurement.

 

I think a lot of that gets cleared up because they appear to be using the recently published SAE motorcycle sound level testing standard.

 

I think it would be more precise to say they are claiming to use it and hoping the cops will apply it correctly, and so on.

 

Although I haven't seen it, there is a world of difference between specifying stuff for SAE purposes and for legal purposes.

 

And since you believe it and trust the immortal engineering wisdom of the SAE writers, perhaps you could tell us how they deal with many kinds of reflecting surfaces (including the pavement and pavement crown, the curb, etc.) on real-world streets? Or do they insist measurements be taken 100 yards from any building?

 

Even if there is a coherent plan for measurement of vehicles, it still has to work in a regulatory framework. That's a whole other order of business that just isn't engineering.

 

Might be possible to create enforceable curbside sound-measurement legislation. But very hard.

 

I'm not saying I am sympathetic to all lawyerly arguments, but they do have their power in freeing perps.

 

Ben

 

Footnote: there are all kinds of noise ordinances. Around here, A/C installations can't raise the noise level at the property boundary. That's nuts but a before and after standard is a useful logical approach.

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We do not have many BMWs in this neck of the woods. Many times I get a comment at a 7/11 about how quiet my RT is compared to other motorcycles. My response is "It is a gentleman's motorcycle and doesn't need to be loud to draw attention".

 

My 2 cents worth. :grin:

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When they ticket the trucks/mustangs/corvettes etc for noise and when they ticket semi's for noise and when they ticket any smelly diesel, then, maybe, just maybe, I might see this kind of law necessary. Until then, let the noisy bikes et al alone. Their noise, after all, for most of us, is fleeting. And of course, most of those making noise, may meet their early demise and that can't but help the gene pool(lol)

 

I want as little interference in my right to ride a bike as possible. I believe in wearing a helmet, but that is my choice.

 

 

Just my humble opinion.

I agree they should ticket cars and trucks that are loud too, as well as cars blasting boom boxes. But you have to start somewhere and motorcycle noise is a good place to start.

 

As far as I am concerned you can do anything you want, as long as it doesn't intrude into my space, including my ears.

 

My humble opinion too.

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I live on a relatively busy street. Most of traffic doesn't bother me, but the open pipe Hogs that insist on ripping by will definitely wake me up and piss me off. Same goes for the aftermarket pipe sport bikes. And same for the rice rockets with fart cans and more stereo than engine. And the moronic pick up's with big fat pipes. I'd like a quieter world. Sure, it's essentially a free country (even here in Canada), but not if it's infringing on my reasonable right to harmony. Loud pipes don't save lives. All they do is say "look at me, I'm ever so cool". So, I say that this is a good move. It's controversial and difficult to enforce, but it's a good move. I'd like to see the same bylaw here.

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I for one hope they make some inroads with this bylaw. While I obviously ride a bike, I'm no fan of those with loud aftermarket pipes. I live in an area just off the centre of town and I know how annoyed I am when one of these morons roars by our house, or sits at a stop sign revving the engine to try and impress anyone within earshot. Guess they're too stupid to realize how pathetic that is.

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mikeR1100R

It is a shame it has to come to this, but I think the vast majority of people (including myself)have had it with motorcycles with excessively loud exhaust.

 

There is no reason for a street bike to be louder than a Kiss concert or a jetliner taking off. Window-shattering noise while accelerating from stop sign to stop sign is completely without logic or purpose other than to say "I'm loud, I'm bad, I'm cool".

 

It's coming; slowly but surely, but it is coming.

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Peter Parts

Esp. on my model (R1100S), the boy-racers all buy loud Staintune pipes or the like with virtually no noise control and never use db killers (which can do some good but only if the innards have some effective absorbent still in place... doubtful).

 

Without major internal engine mods, there's lots of reason to think they add no power below 7000 rpm, if there. But the boy-racers at Pelican Parts love them and swear aftermarket cans make them go real fast.

 

Fact is, they hardly change the A/F (or hint at any more changes to the ECU than the stock jobbies anyway) which indicates they aren't doing much.

 

Ben

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Loud pipes don't save lives. All they do is say "look at me, I'm ever so cool".

 

You are SOOOOOO wrong!!!

 

Loud pipes say, "Look out! Clear the way!! SMALL PENIS COMING THROUGH!!! SMALL PENIS COMING THROUGH!!!"

 

:)

 

Tim

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Matts_12GS
I live on a relatively busy street. Most of traffic doesn't bother me, but the open pipe Hogs that insist on ripping by will definitely wake me up and piss me off. Same goes for the aftermarket pipe sport bikes. And same for the rice rockets with fart cans and more stereo than engine. And the moronic pick up's with big fat pipes. I'd like a quieter world. Sure, it's essentially a free country (even here in Canada), but not if it's infringing on my reasonable right to harmony. Loud pipes don't save lives. All they do is say "look at me, I'm ever so cool". So, I say that this is a good move. It's controversial and difficult to enforce, but it's a good move. I'd like to see the same bylaw here.

 

Wow, canucks have a right to harmony?

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JerryMather

I wonder what will happen to those guys that have OEM pipes that don't make it under 92DB?

I made just a slight mod to my KLR 250's air box leaving the OEM muffler on and I'm not sure it's under 92 DB's at 8,000 rpm's.

And what would happen if these guys install a aftermarket horn that's easily 110 plus DB's and lay on that while they're in these areas? How could a judge up hold a ticket under those conditions, with the horn masking the exhaust sound?

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I wonder what will happen to those guys that have OEM pipes that don't make it under 92DB?...

 

I often wonder about this. There are plenty of cruisers that I see with what appears to be straight-out pipes without any silencing or spark-arresters.

 

I guess we all have similar anomalies in our laws. For instance, we can legally sell extremely loud pies, we can legally fit extremely loud pipes. However, we can not legally use them.

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I live on a relatively busy street. Most of traffic doesn't bother me, but the open pipe Hogs that insist on ripping by will definitely wake me up and piss me off. Same goes for the aftermarket pipe sport bikes. And same for the rice rockets with fart cans and more stereo than engine. And the moronic pick up's with big fat pipes. I'd like a quieter world. Sure, it's essentially a free country (even here in Canada), but not if it's infringing on my reasonable right to harmony. Loud pipes don't save lives. All they do is say "look at me, I'm ever so cool". So, I say that this is a good move. It's controversial and difficult to enforce, but it's a good move. I'd like to see the same bylaw here.

 

Wow, canucks have a right to harmony?

 

No; harmony and hockey. :rofl:

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Matts_12GS
No; harmony and hockey. :rofl:

 

Next thing I know you're gonna tell me you're allowed to be snowbirds and drive in left lane w/your turn signal on....

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No; harmony and hockey. :rofl:

 

Next thing I know you're gonna tell me you're allowed to be snowbirds and drive in left lane w/your turn signal on....

 

That may be true for some, but definitely not for me (if for no other reason than I stay put in winter).

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That new Canadian laws seems pretty straight forward and fair to me. Most of the U.S have noise laws that put the DB in the 80-82 DB range. Difficult to enforce but on the books. Places like Denver and I believe some of N.Y. have new laws that require oem exhausts complete with oem EPA labels and markings. Lots more money in fines in some areas also.

That 92 DB still allows a nice throaty sounding exhaust without the window shaking 100+ DB open pipes.

I guess I don’t understand how they are going to enforce the noise output at RPM part as a lot of bikes don’t have a tachometer or at least an accurate tachometer. Just measuring at idle won’t always work either as a bike with a long duration cam or cams will be fairly quiet at idle as there isn’t a lot of low RPM compression.

I guess if a community feels they need a specific noise law above and beyond the basic noise disturbance ordinance that seems like a fair way to handle it. I’m just not sure as to how they are going to enforce it in the modern day of multi programmable ignition modules and electronic on the fly EFI programmers. Flip a switch to kill off a fuel injector or two or flip a switch to deactivate the TPS then all bets are off on real world exhaust noise output.

 

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Yay, Testosterone needs to be deflated to quiet. Have y'all heard a stock new S100RR? Whisper time!

Ain't no call for all these nasty noisey murcycles!

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Bill_Walker
I think a lot of that gets cleared up because they appear to be using the recently published SAE motorcycle sound level testing standard.

 

I think it would be more precise to say they are claiming to use it and hoping the cops will apply it correctly, and so on.

 

Although I haven't seen it, there is a world of difference between specifying stuff for SAE purposes and for legal purposes.

 

And since you believe it and trust the immortal engineering wisdom of the SAE writers, perhaps you could tell us how they deal with many kinds of reflecting surfaces (including the pavement and pavement crown, the curb, etc.) on real-world streets? Or do they insist measurements be taken 100 yards from any building?

 

Even if there is a coherent plan for measurement of vehicles, it still has to work in a regulatory framework. That's a whole other order of business that just isn't engineering.

 

Might be possible to create enforceable curbside sound-measurement legislation. But very hard.

 

I'm not saying I am sympathetic to all lawyerly arguments, but they do have their power in freeing perps.

 

Ben

 

Footnote: there are all kinds of noise ordinances. Around here, A/C installations can't raise the noise level at the property boundary. That's nuts but a before and after standard is a useful logical approach.

 

There's a story on the standard at the AMA site. The standard is J2825, and it was designed to be a simple-to-perform field test, not a lab test. The Motorcycle Industry Council is on board with it. Sadly, it's cost you $50+ and an SAE membership to actually download a copy of the standard.

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Peter Parts

Thanks for providing the reference. It would be nice to see the standard itself, not the press-release version. It isn't a given that the interests of the AMA, the manufacturers, the SAE, and the police are the same as what seems relevant and fair to you and me. Nobody over 8 years old thinks the AMA or even SAE standards are free of politics (with a "P" or a "p").

 

Nor is it a given that with all authorities behind it, that courts will accept it. For example, in Canada, the police need some cause to haul you over and stick a meter 20 inches and 45 degrees from (one of?) your tailpipes. If they can't show cause, they can't use their findings.

 

Canadians will be well-aware of the inadmissibility of the evidence of little baggy of white powdery drugs found in the pocket of a certain former Alberta Member of the Parliament of Canada (Raheem Jaffer) and husband of a recently sacked federal cabinet Minister (Helene Gurergis) when stopped on suspicion of drunk driving.

 

Do I favor noise control? You bet. Do I think it is hard to devise well? You bet. Do I think the SAE standard makes sense? Dunno... but might be possible. Do I think defense lawyers will shred it? Very likely.

 

Ben

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In the UK we have a simple method of enforcement, albeit one can can be circumvented with a little effort. Our regulations are:

 

(d) Exhausts - on motorcycles first used on or after 1 January 1985 the silencer which forms part of the exhaust system must be either:

 

(i) that with which the machine was first fitted; or

 

(ii) clearly and indelibly marked with :-

 

-the relevant BS marking BS AU 193/T2, BS AU 193a, 1990/T2, BS AU 193a, 1990/T3; or

 

-the relevant "e" marking to show compliance with EC Directive 89/235; or the relevant "e" marking to show compliance with Chapter 9 of EC Directive 97/24; or

 

-the name or trade mark of the manufacturer or marked with that manufacturer's part number - relating to it.

 

The European Community noise limits applicable to new motorcycles first used from 1 April 1991 are:

Motorcycle Category by cm3

Limits in dB(A)

 

Up to and including 80

77

 

Between 80 and 175 (incl.)

79

 

Above 175

82

 

 

Motorcycles approved to EU Directive 97/24/EC, Chapter 9 will be 2dB(A) less than the above figures.

 

(Note: the precise regulations for motorcycle exhausts are complex and it is recommended that they are studied closely to obtain accurate and complete details of the requirements).

 

Before buying any replacement parts for systems listed in this section, riders should check for the relevant marks, where applicable. These will include an "e" mark for EC Directives, an "E" mark for ECE Regulations and "BS" for British Standards.

 

(Note: amateur motorcycle builders may be exempt from some or all of the requirements)

 

If your exhaust does not have the indelible marking, you are breaking the law - simple.

 

There are however, many places from which to but rivet-on plates with the relevant markings..

 

Andy

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motoguy128
Their noise, after all, for most of us, is fleeting. And of course, most of those making noise, may meet their early demise and that can't but help the gene pool(lol)

 

 

Have you seen the age of most folks with noise pipes. Its' too late. Many were producing offspring well before they were old enough to drink.

 

I agree however, you can't have a noise ordinance that singles out one type of vehicle. In my area, have just as many, if not more, noisy pick-ups and sports cars as we do loud motorcycles.

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In nearby Albuquerque, they passed a "No blipping" law last year. Makes it illegal to blip the throttle. An obvious attempt to reign in the throttle jockeys on their open piped anti-social infernal combustion Vee twins.

But will it affect the more mainstream rider? Frankly, I doubt you could tell if I blipped the throttle from 50' with any of my bikes.

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When they ticket the trucks/mustangs/corvettes etc for noise and when they ticket semi's for noise and when they ticket any smelly diesel, then, maybe, just maybe, I might see this kind of law necessary. Until then, let the noisy bikes et al alone. Their noise, after all, for most of us, is fleeting. And of course, most of those making noise, may meet their early demise and that can't but help the gene pool(lol)

 

I want as little interference in my right to ride a bike as possible. I believe in wearing a helmet, but that is my choice.

 

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

paul

 

Where I live the noise of one loud-piped sports bike lasts for about a minute at a time - with about 30 bikes an hour on a dry day. My back garden is not a pleasant quiet retreat, like an English country garden should be. Your freedom is someone else's irritation. Remember, non-motorcyclists outnumber you and if you annoy them they will make sure you lose more than your loud pipes - like your rights to ride.

 

Andy

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Many times I get a comment at a 7/11 about how quiet my RT is compared to other motorcycles. My response is "It is a gentleman's motorcycle and doesn't need to be loud to draw attention".

I like that line!

 

I found it most interesting to read this bit: But Rob Harvey, owner of Extreme Choppers, said for safety reasons he doesn't have mufflers on his custom-built Perro Rabiso motorcycle. "I think a noisy bike is better than a non-noisy one because you need as much protection out there as possible," he said.

"People hear me coming, they know I'm there, and they're looking to get away from me if they're driving beside me because it's a little noisier."

 

I think most will realize this is a specious argument. The noise from un-muffled bikes is out the back and thus provides no safety factor at all. It just pisses people off.

IMO, its all about attitude and macho BS posturing. I would suspect that Mr. Harvey (if allowed by law) would gladly ride sans helmet. Or other proven protective gear.

My mental image of him may be a stereotype but based in my experiences he rides wearing blue jeans as his best protection. Bared arms to better expose a tattoo or three, sunglasses and we're done.

The fact that he is doing demonstrable damage to the hearing of every human around him (especially children) with his unmuffled extreme chopper, and thus lessening their ability to hear him in the first place, apparently didn't occur to him. :eek:

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In the UK we have a simple method of enforcement, albeit one can can be circumvented with a little effort. Our regulations are:

That’s the same approach New York and Denver have taken in the USA. Which I agree is much less likely to be thrown out in a court than one based on db. We’ll see how this one in Edmonton pans out.

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How bad can it be?? The riding season's only 2 weeks up there right? :rofl:

Sometimes it seems that’s about the truth! Really it’s the big thing I miss since we moved here (from KC). But all things are a compromise I guess.

 

As the saying goes, ‘You can ride all summer in Canada - both days!”

 

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Paul Mihalka

As the saying goes, ‘You can ride all summer in Canada - both days!”

 

You just hope it falls on a weekend! :rofl:

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Really it’s the big thing I miss since we moved here (from KC). But all things are a compromise I guess.

 

As the saying goes, ‘You can ride all summer in Canada - both days!”

 

Don't worry Ken. Once you get used to it, you will find yourself riding about 8 months a year. Now Donna...well that's up to her.

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In response to:

Poster: Paul Mihalka

Subject: Re: Edmonton, AB to Adopt Tough New Anti-Motorcycle Noise Law

 

As the saying goes, ‘You can ride all summer in Canada - both days!”

 

You just hope it falls on a weekend! rofl

 

And we still waiting for those two days!

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Bellingham, WA. (north of me about 20 miles) just issued db meters to its cops. Will be interesting. I see many areas are going with the plan that the pipe must have the Federal embossment on it that only comes on OEM equipment. No way to slip around that in court. I once spent a night in a motel in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. It was at the junction of a couple of main through highways there. It was so noisy from the Harleys it was plain unreal. The motel owner even said he was selling out, could no longer stand it. BMW, nothing like going fast and being quiet at it. beech

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Beech, unfortunately if there is money to be made in it people will find a way to bootleg the correct stamping or tags to pass local police muster.

In fact for the last year or so there have been a few “kits” or “muffler surgery” offered to replace the insides on the Harley stock mufflers to have minimal baffling and about quadruple the exhaust noise. Seeing as the inside is the only effected area the outside would still retain the necessary markings to be OEM. On some modifications you have to send the mufflers in but do end up with factory looking welds and factory OEM look but much higher decibel output. There are also baffle kits like Fullsack that offer at home stock muffler modification.

Just having laws that require OEM muffler markings or EPA embossments opens the door for loud stock looking systems that can’t easily be determined by the officer on the street. At what point is the muffler just too loud to be civil or fall under normal degradation? On the other hand just having a max DB law opens the door to testing variations, meter calibration issues, engine calibration modifications during the testing procedure.

 

Maybe we need an impound rule like they have in certain parts of Germany. If an officer thinks the motorcycle is to loud it gets impounded for 6 weeks for supposedly testing. After the 6 week period you get to pay a fine and get your bike back. I don’t know how good that law works but my guess is there aren’t too many repeat offenders.

 

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The bylaw passed, 92db max is now the law of the land in Edmonton.

 

Sidebar – Under the category of there’s one in every crowd; one (of two) of the council members that opposed the motorcycle noise bylaw entered yesterday a proposal to limit the volume of the sirens on police, emergency and other similar authority vehicles. Not exactly an apples to apples issue IMHO.

:dopeslap:

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Joe Frickin' Friday
The bylaw passed, 92db max is now the law of the land in Edmonton.

 

At what range?

 

 

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JerryMather

I completely agree with the folks up north wanting to do something to limit those people who come into their area with their ear shattering machines but as said earlier, whatever they do should be across the board. Limit any mechanical device to a lower sound level, leaf blows to tractor trailers.

 

The ones I'd go after first would be those leaf blowers and their operators that seem to fired them up every Sat. morning while I'm still in bed trying to get that last bit of needed sleep.

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The ones I'd go after first would be those leaf blowers and their operators that seem to fired them up every Sat. morning while I'm still in bed trying to get that last bit of needed sleep.

 

I'd start with garbage trucks. Why are they allowed to come into my residential neighborhood at 5:30 AM to pick up garbage? Every Tuesday I'm wide awake an hour early. Will the garbage go bad if they pick it up during business hours?

 

Or the kid's car stereo next door, blaring every morning at 6AM with his sunroof open when he gets home from work.

 

Or the folks on the other side, who enjoy a spirited game of basketball on some weeknights at 11pm in the dark?

 

Or the young girls down the way who scream hysterically at just about anything.

 

Loud pipes, sure they are annoying, but I don't think they are nearly as annoying as any of the above.

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From an enforcement perspective, I think we should have a federal law that makes it illegal to sell new pipes, or modify existing pipes, to emit louder than 92db. Our vendor community is training riders that you must be loud for performance, safety, or to be attractive. Make it hard to buy the stuff. And I don't buy the notion that you need to exempt "off road use only" applications. Track, sure, but dual sports should be just as quiet as cruisers and sports bike, especially out in the woods where others might be enjoying peace and quiet.

 

From a link on hdforums.com, where they are starting to discuss this same topic, with a slight different perspective, a kindler gentler approach appears to be somewhat effective in Golden, CO...

 

http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1796&issue_id=52009

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Peter Parts
The bylaw passed, 92db max is now the law of the land in Edmonton.

snip

 

Is that "dBA" or "dBC"? Big difference particularly for mufflers where dBC is a hard standard for a muffler. And "db" isn't a relevant term here.

 

Can anybody provide a free link to the SAE standard? I'd sure like to eyeball it - OK, maybe just look at the pictures.

 

Ben

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The bylaw passed, 92db max is now the law of the land in Edmonton.

 

At what range?

 

As Bill mentioned earlier it's the J2825 standard.

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Peter Parts
The bylaw passed, 92db max is now the law of the land in Edmonton.

 

At what range?

 

As Bill mentioned earlier it's the J2825 standard.

 

As Bill mentioned earlier, none of us have read the J2825 standard. Isn't there somebody with a a free link to the standard or a trustworthy and detailed summary of it?

 

Ben

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