You thought Ohio was dangerous for speeding before?

[RT_Jim]

Police officer's visual estimate of speed is enough for a conviction, Ohio Supreme Court rules

 

Article

 

 

[Lawman]

That's because we're "experts"... :rofl:

[Polo]

States NOT to drive thru, nor spend my tourist dollars in:

 

Ohio - check!

[Jerry Johnston]

I see an opportunity to start a school on speed estimation for the public. Maybe speedometers won't even be necessary in Ohio after everyone learns to just estimate speed.

[rocks]

Police have all kinds of tricks...

 

I got pulled over in Maine for not wearing a seatbelt (I was) in court the reasoning he used was that I wasn't looking at him as I went through the toll booth... so I must be guilty because I avoided eye contact... judge ruled in his favor

[tallman]

Aw come on.

Even I can estimate speed w/in 3-5 miles per hour.

Probably quite a few of us can.

I don't see the big deal.

Guy was speeding, got caught, looked for the weasel tunnel and ran into a mole trap.

He probably was doing 20+ over and needs to man up.

[Matts_12GS]

Ever since the last time I had to be escorted back one exit to pay for a speeding ticket on the spot I have had nothing but disdain for OH law enforcement.

[TyTass]

Aw come on.

Even I can estimate speed w/in 3-5 miles per hour.

Probably quite a few of us can.

I don't see the big deal.

Guy was speeding, got caught, looked for the weasel tunnel and ran into a mole trap.

He probably was doing 20+ over and needs to man up.

Come on, Tim. Though there's certainly whining going on here, and you're probably just taking a position, you really don't actually believe that everything an LEO says in court is gospel, that LEOs don't at times have a "bone to pick" or an "ax to grind." And you really wouldn't want to live in a society where rule of law was so utterly oversimplistic as this.

 

Now before any LEO here takes that wrong, allow me to state that I do NOT think that LEOs are usually wrong, nor that they always have an ax to grind, nor that they are usually unfair. There are good and bad in every profession and the bad ruin things for everyone.

 

If it weren't for the fact that humans are imperfect and make mistakes on both ends of the bar, we wouldn't even need a court system. People would just "man up" and pay their fines ... or better yet never break any law (regardless of how ridiculous).

[motoguy128]

I'm ok with visual estimation... if it uses nearby traffic moving in the same direction as a reference, and it's only considered accurate within maybe 10-15mph. Finally, the offender woudl need to present a clear public hazard such a frequently changing lanes, weaving through traffic traveling 15-20mph faster than surround traffic, not signaling and so on.

 

Just my opinon as least... and yes, I would guilty of speeding by my own visual estimation standards on occasion.

 

that being said, I'm already aware how strict OH traffic enforcement is and try to avoid that state, or adjust my driving habits accordingly. Namely traveling with the flow of traffic.

[Albert]

If visual estimates are to be employed (a bad idea in my opinion), it should be regulated like the weapons a LEO carries. I'm certainly no expert but I believe officers are required to regularly pass some kind of proficiency test with firearms. If we're going to assume they're all experts at estimating speeds of vehicles ranging from motor scooters to Kenworths they should be tested and certified. I don't believe there's anything "easy" about visually estimating speed with any accuracy.

[philbytx]

Hey! Its the Gubmint innit. Now they will install a new state "Visual Standards Testing Department", have a "socially acquainted" organization create the standards manual and associated programs, fill it full of friends of political appointees who don't know their bum from a hole in the ground and Voila!

 

 

 

[Albert]

Hey! Its the Gubmint innit. Now they will install a new state "Visual Standards Testing Department", have a "socially acquainted" organization create the standards manual and associated programs, fill it full of friends of political appointees who don't know their bum from a hole in the ground and Voila!

 

Hey if they do that, maybe they could send that umpire from the Tigers game the other night.

[tallman]

Craig,

We're not alking the entire judicial process, or losing constitutional rights.

This isn't a universal application of the "rule of law".

 

I'm tired of the rights of criminals at the expense of society.

I'm tired of the what if one person argument.

I see examples eveyday of criminals, apparently career criminals, who may life awful for somebody and are societal parasites.

If we want to look at the big picture, OK.

I'm focused on this event.

Some guy was speeding along, got caught, and tried to find a way out.

I'm tired of people looking for a way out .

If you choose to speed, and in this case it appears to be more than he said, he said, and they nail you, so be it.

I almost got nailed today.

A place where 2 lanes lead into a forward lane and a right turn only.

I was in the r turn lane and sped up to about 10 over, most were 5-7 over, and merged into a big wide spot in the forward lane.

Off to the left, stuck in the trees was a TPD car running radar.

If he had lit me up, I WOULDN"T SAY "I wasn't doing it".

I might prevail on traffic flow, large space to merge, etc. and hope for the best.

If I got a ticket, so be it.

Yes, LEO's may have a bone to pick.

But, there is no mention of that in this case, and believe me, if there were a history betweeen the two, or a pattern of behavior, the lawyers would bring that into play.

Speed limits, passing zones and the like are at times unrealistic and frustrating.

 

[Scribner]

Just another reason to stay out of Ohio!

[Lone_RT_rider]

Just another reason to stay out of Ohio!

 

Like you needed another one?

 

Shawn

ex-Michigander

[dirtrider]

Hi there

This is for you riders that like to look like you are going fast. Come on now you know who you are. Just a note to be extra cautious if you are riding through the state of Ohio. Seems the state supreme court here has just voted to allow traffic cops to write speeding tickets if you just look like you are speeding to them. No lasers or radar required to prove you were speeding. Jees I hope they can judge speed better than they pick donut shops.

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-8811-Detroit-Autos-Examiner~y2010m6d4-Ohio-police-can-now-issue-tickets-based-on-opinion

 

[tallman]

Already posted.

[swilson]

For info... I've gotten guilty verdicts in CA for vehicles where I was only able to get a visual speed estimation.

 

 

[Motodan]

I'm not worried about the decision. I live 15 miles from Ohio, the thing that gets me is they have State Police everywhere...in bean fields, cornfields, next to the nursing home, in towns of 20 people and yes, behind billboards. Because of this, I watch my speed very close and so does the majority of drivers, at least in the northwest section of the state. It may not be as much fun, but I do feel safer on their roads because the majority of folks seem to be more in tune with their driving actions, than in good old Indiana. Plus, Ohio's general speed limit, on non interstate roads, is already 5 mph higher than Indiana's. Just an observation.

 

However, I will complain if I get a speeding ticket "by observation", if I wasn't speeding.

[Alan D]

This sounds like profiling to me. Just because I look like I'm speeding isn't a good reason to stop me is it?

[TyTass]

Craig,

We're not alking the entire judicial process, or losing constitutional rights.

This isn't a universal application of the "rule of law" ...

 

Yes, LEO's may have a bone to pick.

But, there is no mention of that in this case, and believe me, if there were a history betweeen the two, or a pattern of behavior, the lawyers would bring that into play.

Speed limits, passing zones and the like are at times unrealistic and frustrating.

Point taken. ... Deleted the rest.

[RPG]

how far we've come from a nation of laws and the burden of proof required by the accusor.

 

So, based on the Ohio Supreme Court ruling, I (Joe Citizen) can take an officer to court and win a conviction based on my assumption he/she's speeding?

 

I wonder how that would play out........

 

RPG

[Mike]

I'm not too worried about this . . . all the court said was that the testimony of a certified officer could be sufficient to support a conviction. So, as in any other case where an LEO asserts an individual's guilt, the question is one of credibility. The defendant has the opportunity to cross examine the cop, to provide other evidence in support of his innocence, and to testify in his own behalf.

 

As an aside, it's not a lot different than a situation where an LEO claims to have clocked you at a speed in excess of the speed limit. Generally they don't have to show you the equipment or the reading, so it still remains their word against yours. The system does not favor the alleged speeder, but this doesn't seem like the end of the world.

[Deadboy]

The officer's own estimate was 10 less than the radar gun.....clearly he is a well trained observer.....

 

Santimarino said he observed Jenney speeding in a black SUV on Ohio 21 and later estimated he was driving at 73 mph. The speed limit on the highway was 60.

 

After making his visual estimate, the officer said he then checked his radar gun for confirmation. But the radar read 82 or 83 mph, Santimarino testified.

 

Santimarino said he decided to write Jenney a ticket for 79 mph -- closer to what the radar calculated instead of his own estimate.

 

But Kim, Jenney's attorney, argued that Santimarino was not qualified to operate the radar gun because the officer could not produce a certificate proving he was trained to use it or explain the two different readings.

 

The radar evidence was thrown out. Jenney's speeding conviction then hinged solely on the officer's estimate of 73 mph. The Barberton Municipal court ultimately decided to issue Jenney a ticket for driving 70 mph.

[Deadboy]

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=128_SB_280

 

This bill will be the end of it....apparently it has widespread support in the state legislature.