Thinking of an RT...from a ST1100

[drmedak]

I am not sure if this is the proper sub-forum for this, my first post...but here goes...

 

I have had 3 different Honda ST1100's over the last 14 years. The last one was a '96 ABS. They were great bikes and I sold my last one to pay off some bills and when my house sells I'll have money for a new bike.

 

I am strongly considering a 2007 and newer R1200RT....I think they are beautiful and I love the Titan Silver. The ST1100s were a benchmark of reliability. Not a single problem with any of them. Just fuel, oil, tires and ride. I am 6'6 and 275 pounds and the ST1100s fit me well. The thing that keeps coming up reading the forums about the RT is final drive failure...I even know of a friend of a friend that has a 2006 RT that had an FD failure...under warranty. How common is FD failure? And how expensive to repair if it fails? I tend to keep my vehicles a long time.

 

I am not concerned with the 6000 mile service intervals. I am confident that I can adjust valves and synch throttle bodies...probably even spring for a GS911 to read codes.

 

I see a lot of bikes with ESA. How reliable a system is ESA? It seems like it would be nice to have but expensive to fix if it fails. Being a big guy, I am wondering how the ESA settings would suit me? I weigh most of 300 pounds with my Aerostich, boots and helmet on...which is as much as some couples two-up. I had my Works Performance Racer shock for my ST set up on the firm side and liked it.

 

So I guess my questions come down to final drive and ESA reliability. And secondarily whether the ESA settings would work for a large guy like myself.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Jim

 

[ollka]

I would pass the ESA and install Ohlins suspension instead, that way you can adjust the suspension in both ends to fit you (I LOVED mine).

Final drive issues pop up everywhere bacause they seem to be "the only" issue with BMW. Later models have bleed holes for oil change which will add miles for its life span. Changing the FD is bolt off - bolt on task and cost is hundreds rather than thousands.

If FD problems were in numbers, dealers would have new parts in stock - which they dont have. 1200 series have been built in six numbers and FD problems are counted in single digit%

 

Just my 3cents

[Teddy]

I am trying to claim off BMW for the failure of my ESA system just out of warranty & no call from them yet. There is another ESA failure from a Victorian as well close to this post. I have also heard of 2 other failures so it seems common on these boards.

 

Like most failures they get a lot of bad press on these forums.

 

But I would not let that stop you from buying the bike that you really want the R1200 series is a great motor, enough oomph when you need it & is reasonable economical into the bargain. It handles well (especially in ST from)

 

I am looking into Wilbers replacements if BMW don't come good as the Ohlins guy here in Oz has not replied to my email yet.

 

If you really weigh 150kg+ with gear I would definitely be looking at aftermarket shocks especially if you ride on bumpy roads.

 

Cheers Teddy

[AdirondackJack]

I think the central issue for you is whether you want a Japanese bike with 5,000 U.S. dealers, or a German bike with 150 U.S. dealers. Also, whether or not you like the feel and performance of an inline-4 or a v-4, versus the traditional boxer engine.

 

I most recently came from riding both an FJR1300 and a Goldwing, whose feel and performance are very different than the RT. Like you, I was skeptical of the rear drive failure issue, and the lack of dealers for support. With 2 years + on my '08 RT, I am constantly reminded of how happy I am that I finally bought the BMW. There's something about them and the folks that ride them that seems to embody what I've always looked for in motorcycling.

 

The feel of the slight vibration through the grips, the not completely silent exhaust sound, the more than adequate (but not too over the top) power band, the maneuverability and handling (600 lbs. versus the goldwing at 900 lbs.), the upscale high-tech looks and gear associated with them, the incredible lateral support of other RT riders (like on this forum or through the anonymous book), and the just plain "great feel" of the motorcycle was what did it for me.

 

I think the suspension and the FD failure issues are worth keeping in mind, but definitely can be overcome and managed and should not be deal breakers.

 

For me, after 46 years of riding/owning/+teaching mc safety (not all 46 years) on just about every thing with two wheels that's made, I have decided that there is no other motorcycle besides the RT. But that , of course, is my issue!

 

Best regards, and good luck! Dave R.

[VinnyR11]

I'm quite a few pounds less than you and I find the ESA set-up for solo riding is already at one rider plus luggage. I think the sag is going to be too soft for you to make any use of ESA and the stock suspension, because you very well may have it on 2 up all the time.

 

At your size, I would skip the ESA and have the bike set up with Ohlins making sure that the spring rates are correct for your size and riding (i.e. luggage? two up?). The standard spring rates on the Ohlins are going to be way too soft, so make sure they are spec'd correctly.

 

I've always owned Japanese bikes (and 1 HD) until I bought my '96 R11RT new. The BMW's are pretty reliable, but my Japanese bikes were zero failures bikes and smoother than either of my RT's. Having said that, guess which bike I bought after 14 years of my R11? It's the whole package that makes us drawn to a bike. That's what you'll need to take into consideration.

 

BTW, I switched to Ohlins after 6 years of the stock suspension on my R11RT. Great shocks.

[OmahaAl]

....

 

I am 6'6 and 275 pounds and the ST1100s fit me well.

 

....

 

A couple thoughts.

 

If you haven't yet, try putting in a full day on a demo RT. At 6'6", you may be cramped on an RT. I usually see taller riders on GSA's.

 

I dumped my ESA for a pair of Wilbers. If you happen to meet BMW's definition of an "average rider" (size/riding style), the ESA will work well. The farther you get from average, the less well it will work for you.

[outpost22]

I think the central issue for you is whether you want a Japanese bike with 5,000 U.S. dealers, or a German bike with 150 U.S. dealers.

 

Although that is a true fact about dealership networks, you will probably find that the 150 BMW dealers actually stock parts in inventory and that the people who work in the dealership will actually know something about the bikes they sell. I have owned all of the brands, and not ONE has stocked anything, not even spark plugs for the various bikes.

 

The final drive issues you hear about can be hit or miss. We complain about final drive failures all the time. "My final drive just failed...at 97,000 miles". Well, they're going to fail at some point. How many chains and sprockets would that be equivalent to? Sure some drives fail early, but if you check the F800GS website, guys are complaining about their chains breaking.

 

So where in Oregon are you located?

[drmedak]

@ Outpost22 - I am in Roseburg

 

I like the idea of renting a R1200RT to see how I fit and how I like it. I fit just fine on the ST1100, and I was just too cramped on CBR1100XX Blackbird. The ST1100 handling wasn't great until I put an aftermarket shock on it. I've sat on a ST1300, FJR1300, GTR1400 and the most comfortable bike in that mix was the new Connie...but it only has a 200 mile fuel range...what are they thinking?

 

I think I'll avoid ESA. Being a couple of standard deviations outside of average size, I would probably be running on 2-up mode all the time. I've looked at the Ohlins...probably go that way.

 

The other bike I've been considering is the R1200GS Adv. I sat on one at the Cycle World show in Seattle and it is certainly roomy. I am thinking RT mostly because of the type of riding I do...typical sport-touring weekends...usually 350-500 mile days on a mix of twisty roads and interstate. One of the common trips I take is to visit my hometown of Aberdeen, WA....lots of I-5....I am thinking I'd appreciate the cruise control and wind protection of the RT versus the GSA.

 

So the cost of a failed final drive is? Under a thousand or over a thousand?

 

Thanks for all the responses.

 

Jim

[ollka]

Actually RT and GS/GSA have quite similar ergos. Rt being the better with wind and engine heat protection.

I had -05 RT which I perfected with Ohlins suspension. After much too agressive riding behaviour I changed to 1800 Goldwing which I rode just two months to figure out it isnt a motorcycle. Now I´ve ridden my GSA for 600mls and I´m happy as a man can be.

Why I bought GSA over RT is because we have a lot of gravel roads around my neighbourhood and I try to stick on them to avoid footpeg scraping which I was too used to with RT.

I´m 6´1 and 220lbs

 

[Spike]

I would say ride them all and enjoy the experience. Out of curiosity, since you were such a but ST fan, why does the 1300 not interest you?

[marcopolo]

[quote=drmeda

So the cost of a failed final drive is? Under a thousand or over a thousand?

 

You can check the online parts fiche at sites like MAX BMW. The list price for the 05-09 RT final drive is shown as just under $1900.

 

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/fiche.aspx

[drmedak]

I would say ride them all and enjoy the experience. Out of curiosity, since you were such a but ST fan, why does the 1300 not interest you?

 

Well...I've never cared for the looks of the ST13...always thought the ST1100 was a better looking motorcycle....and I think the RT is gorgeous.

 

I am more interested in backroad agility than all-out power. I enjoy the twisties, but I am by no means a fast rider.

 

All the goodies that come on the RT standard are aftermarket on the ST....namely cruise control and heated handgrips.

 

I will kick the tires of several models when I have cash in hand, but I am leaning toward a BMW....either a RT or GS Adventure....and right now the RT.

[drmedak]

You can check the online parts fiche at sites like MAX BMW. The list price for the 05-09 RT final drive is shown as just under $1900.

 

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/fiche.aspx

 

Ha! Already looked there!

 

Does anybody rebuild final drives? Or is it more economical to just buy a new replacement?

[VinnyR11]

You can check the online parts fiche at sites like MAX BMW. The list price for the 05-09 RT final drive is shown as just under $1900.

 

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/fiche.aspx

 

Ha! Already looked there!

 

Does anybody rebuild final drives? Or is it more economical to just buy a new replacement?

 

Not to avoid the issue completely, but I wouldn't stress too much on the final drive. Plenty of other stuff may break as well!

 

Only joking of course.

 

The final drive is an issue with some riders, but the posts of those who have had no final drive issues I believe would be multiple times longer than those that had to replace drives.

[outpost22]

You can check the online parts fiche at sites like MAX BMW. The list price for the 05-09 RT final drive is shown as just under $1900.

 

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/fiche.aspx

 

Ha! Already looked there!

 

Does anybody rebuild final drives? Or is it more economical to just buy a new replacement?

 

Doc,

Hansens BMW in Medford rebuilds them, as well as ANTON and a few others.

 

I wouldn't sweat it much. Hansens has an 2010 RT on the showroom floor. Are you thinking of BMW Western Oregon in Eugene as your dealer? They probably have both in stock too. (RT and GSA)

[RichEdwards]

Just curious...why the RT and not the GT since the change from a 4-cylinder ST to a 4-cylinder GT would be a much more seamless transition?

[SuperG]

I've owned an ST1100 and followed their forums as well.

The STs had their issues with final drives- namely the splines where the wheel assembly slides over the drive hub/shaft. Water gets in pass the single O ring and creates rust and it is downhill from there, eats the splines. Solution was to keep plenty of honda molly lube on the splines to keep water off.

 

Before I bought my RT I was strongly considering the ST 1300 (and the FJ1300), but I recall they were heavy ( for my size). I owned Japanese bikes pretty much all my life and wanted something else this time.

NO regrets.

This bike has everything a rider can imagine or want.

ABS, heated grips(good ones), cruise (this is very important for me), adjustable windshield, linked brakes = single lever braking, easy ON-OFF rear luggage, good gas range and good gas milage.

 

THe final drive:

Yes there has been problems reported, but think how many people that never had issues with FD did not report; the ratio has to be pretty wide.

I will keep my FD oil changed frequently and will be checking the shafts for pay and go from there.

When it need replacement, I will deal with it.

 

The transition to an RT was not easy for me.

Riding it for one day may not let it fully sink in.

Turn signals, the horn button is on different places it was odd at first.

Engine feel and vibes will be different than anything else, transmission will feel very clunky until you get in "sync" with it.

You will question things; "why did they do that"?

At first I did not like BMW after coming off of Japanese bikes for more than 20+ years.

But now I would not go back.

[drmedak]

Just curious...why the RT and not the GT since the change from a 4-cylinder ST to a 4-cylinder GT would be a much more seamless transition?

 

I don't think the ergos of the GT would suit me as well as the RT.

[drmedak]

I've owned an ST1100 and followed their forums as well.

The STs had their issues with final drives- namely the splines where the wheel assembly slides over the drive hub/shaft. Water gets in pass the single O ring and creates rust and it is downhill from there, eats the splines. Solution was to keep plenty of honda molly lube on the splines to keep water off.

 

Before I bought my RT I was strongly considering the ST 1300 (and the FJ1300), but I recall they were heavy ( for my size). I owned Japanese bikes pretty much all my life and wanted something else this time.

NO regrets.

This bike has everything a rider can imagine or want.

ABS, heated grips(good ones), cruise (this is very important for me), adjustable windshield, linked brakes = single lever braking, easy ON-OFF rear luggage, good gas range and good gas milage.

 

THe final drive:

Yes there has been problems reported, but think how many people that never had issues with FD did not report; the ratio has to be pretty wide.

I will keep my FD oil changed frequently and will be checking the shafts for pay and go from there.

When it need replacement, I will deal with it.

 

The transition to an RT was not easy for me.

Riding it for one day may not let it fully sink in.

Turn signals, the horn button is on different places it was odd at first.

Engine feel and vibes will be different than anything else, transmission will feel very clunky until you get in "sync" with it.

You will question things; "why did they do that"?

At first I did not like BMW after coming off of Japanese bikes for more than 20+ years.

But now I would not go back.

 

Thanks for your comparison to the ST1100...though they are not common, my own cousin had a final drive failure on his ST1100. The rear wheel o-rings and Moly 60 are the solution there.

 

I am anticipating the controls on a RT to seem funky at first and the engine and transmission to seem different. I've never ridden a Boxer engine bike before, so it will all be new. The ST1100 was a bike with enough character I could connect with. I briefly had a CBR1100XX Blackbird and while it was supremely powerful, I didn't feel any connection with it.

 

Not sure if I mentioned it, I am definitely thinking used RT...I like to pay cash for my toys...and I won't have enough cash for a new RT...though the 2010's look very sweet...but not available in my preferred Titan Silver.

[bendbill]

drmedak,

 

I sent you a reply to your e-mail. Didja get it? I'm wonderiing if I sent it correctly

 

Bill

[alake]

My second last bike was a 95 ST 1100 and I now ride RT1150 Absolutely no regrets regarding power, comfort etc. - Love the loss of approximately 200 lbs in mass (on the bike that is..I unfortunately weigh the same), the only thing I preferred on the ST was the 425/450km between fill ups.

 

 

[hANNAbONE]

...Thinking of an RT...from a ST1100...

 

 

 

 

 

dO iT..!